WH's mail has been arriving here in my letter box for the last 6 weeks.

I opened his Visa card statement, whicih arrived about 3 weeks ago.

There were several internet companies on the bill, which I'd never heard of. I've never seen his visa bill before.

I investigated. One was a gay porn site. One was for a pornographic film he'd ordered. The other was for a subscription to a porn site.

I feel sick and I know it's not the vodka jellies this time.

This is now becoming too much. I don't want him back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ClaireL. sorry to hear this. But I think you're wise to realize this is one sick man. I wouldn't want him back either because there seems to be too much in the closet!
Hope you can heal and move on from this. Sounds like he is more involved in things that you had no inkling of. Things that might point to his being more than just a one time A. Or even bisexual man.
God bless, LouLou

So sorry Claire! What do you make of the gay interest? Is that something you suspected before?

Oh, Claire. I am so sorry. This is AWFUL NEWS. I really feel for you. I guess you're wondering when will this all stop??

Remember, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

Claire, my heart goes out to you. This must really hurt-- I think I'd feel sick too. All things considered, maybe it's better to know. I don't disagree with your statement that you don't want him back. I would feel the same thing. BUT, don't do anything rash.

Only you can say when you're "done"... if you still feel "done" in 7-10 days, only then should you take action. It won't hurt anything to not do anything fast.

I wish there was something I could say or do to make this hurt less.

I don't think he is gay or bisexual (although anything is possible ...)

He needs more help and support than I am capable of giving, assuming of course that I am right in thinking that paying $90 odd dollars a month to view internet porn is a bad thing.

I am really p^$$ed off about this discovery. I just had the best birthday party last night (even with the vodka jellies!) was feeling on top of things and now this gets thrown in my face.

I am glad I opened the credit card bill. Better to find this out while separated, than in recovery.

Wow Claire

I'm so sorry for you to found that out!

I did found out in my H computer about half of the hard drives where full of porn and some pretty sick stuff but no gay.... well I didn't browse it that good and just reformated them... so I know is a hard blow... Porn is an addiction but is also part of been sexually inmature... And is very hard to understand...

Since I have not share this with my IC I got no real advice on it but to give you lot's of hugs (((((((Claire))))))), but I'm going to ask him about it he is a sexual therapist and I hope to got good advice from him, I will keep you posted... ugh is amazing how some layers of crap reveals huh?

About the gay site... like you said anything is possible and somehow while all this hurricane hits us... he might also be in a fog about his sexuality or be bisexual? Are you willing to live with it? Then you must find out about it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am glad I opened the credit card bill. Better to find this out while separated, than in recovery. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I don't think there is never a good time about finding the stuff we find but yes is somehow better if you are separated...

Hang in there Claire my prayers are with you!

Take care

matilde

I have just been reading posts on porn addiction.
Yes, I am jumping to the conclusion that this is an addiction - just preparing for the worst case scenario, I suppose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Now a whole lot of things are falling into place:

-He and a friend started going to strip bars back in '99. I thought it was a one-off "night out with the boys". He talked about the experience for the next 4 days, and then went back at least a couple of times a year, with an array of different friends.

-He talked about the private booths, but always said he'd never been into one (my gut feeling is lies, lies, lies).

- In 2000, he did some computer work for the vicar at our church. He came back with the story that he had found hardcore porn sites on the vicar's computer and had to delete them.

- A short time later, it was found that the vicar had developed an internet gambling addiction. I wasn't present at the church meeting when this was revealed, but my H came home and told me the details, and also that the porn sites had been revealed.

- The vicar was moved on from his ministry.

- Following this, H stopped going to church. He wouldn't commit to another parish either. He had known this vicar since 1992 when he was in high school. At the time he said that the defrocking of this vicar was what caused him to lose his faith.

The following is purely speculation, but seems to explain H's loss of faith and dropping out of church. Maybe the porn sites were NOT there before my H was working on the vicar's computer. And maybe the vicar was wrongly blamed for this (he was definitely guilty of the fraud though). And maybe my H's guilt over this matter drove him out of touch with God.

Oh this is getting too horrible. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I must only stick with what I know, but H dropping out of church was never adequately explained. This COULD be the reason. Horrible, but certainly possible. I don't even want to talk to him about it. Gut feeling tells me I have the right explanation.

If going cold turkey is the only way to break this addiction, then he may have his work cut out for him. My WH is an internet programmer.

Dear Claire

I am so very sorry to hear your latest discovery - what crushing news after such a lovely day and party.

A couple of things - don't try and make any decisions about anything whilst you are feeling such immense pain, and perhaps, shame? I'm not sure and wouldn't want to hazard a guess but I reckon there's a whole range of emotions running through you right now. Give yourself time to digest what you have found out and how you may want to handle it - i.e. speak to your WH, considering the future etc.

The other thing about the Church issue - well, I can understand why this is ringing bells for you and you are frantically searching to pin these things together to try and make some sense from it all. You may well be right but speculation on something like this will eat you away as you try and get your head round it all.

One other thing is, use of internet porn is much more common nowadays I think than any of us realise. There was a recent article in a Sunday paper here saying what percentages of men use it. I was amazed it was as high as it was. I'm not saying it is right, it is an indication of the society we live in and how accessible/disposable everything becomes. It is clearly not right for you and your M, and that is what counts.

Finally, I hate to say this, but it seems odd to me that he would be viewing gay porn if there wasn't some sense of interest. In my experience, heterosexual men really shy away from any association with gay issues in an in depth way, i.e. viewing porn, although they may have no discomfort with people who are gay.

Claire, I am so very very sorry for this awful discovery for you. Take your time to think about what your next steps will be.

Thinking of you in sunny London.

Lisa

Claire,
I don't know if you found my posts on porn addiction but I just found out my ex was addicted on June 2, AFTER we divorced. How crazy it makes me that I didn't know, because it made so many puzzle pieces fit, and so many arguments we had make sense (sometimes I would get the hee bee gee bees and we would argue over nothing or over weird stuff, then I would stop and think, ok what was that all about?!) , and the times he was too tired to have sex made sense, and the times he was so distant made sex. It is frustrating, infuriating, and downright sad. You don't have enough information unfortunately right now, to know whether your husband is addicted or just curious, (the church thing sounds suspicious but it COULD be just coincidence, although I can see why you would be thinking of that), and whether he is bisexual, or has any gay tendencies. You are going to have a rough road finding these things out, but you have to find out as much as possible to help you heal. And something else. You said you don't want him back. I found out about the addiction June 2, and Wed. June 11 I think something just snapped in me. I had this overwhelming sense of peace (God) that I could completely let go and be ok. That life should go on and that I was tired of babysitting a "sick child" who didn't want to get help, but only wanted me as his sounding board and then his OW for fun or misery (I am honestly not sure which because he is having OC with her and this is a man who doesn't want any responsibility whatsoever- but then turns around and says he will be a good dad- go figure). This feeling has NOT gone away. I know it is only been 4 days, but 4 days like this is a long time for me. I agree with Squeak who said to give your feelings 7-10 days and see if they change. Keep us posted and hugs to you.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Separated (but sharing access to the vacuum cleaner)
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I will be praying for you.

Give him back the vacuum and tell him to keep it..I would not want it back after what your thinking..God bless you and please see your doc for some antidepressents if your not taking some already..this will probably shoot your blood pressure up a few notches..and they will help you keep it down too..

I don't know what to say..except sorry and God will bring you through this..trust HIM..
I am glad you snooped that is how you can find things out...being a snoop..pays off..big time..they will not tell the truth..I bet if you ask him about it..he will lie.. and say it is a gift for someone..the movie..ask him..wonder where did they send the movie too?? watch for it..
if sent to the house..
then hammer it.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I know this is really getting to me, since I stayed up until midnight, and have woken up every hour since. It is now 4:20am where I am.

ADGirl, I did read your posts and thanks for sharing your experiences. If it does turn out to be a major issue (and the more I think about, the more the pieces fit) I think he will deny, deny, deny.

Here are some facts:
- he has always claimed that he needs sex every night. (I could never keep up with that!!)

- there were times when I was really surprised, especially in the last 12-18 months, when he was too tired. (Although, that could have been due to the insatiable Miss PC (OW's new nickname) of course)

- he said that when he was 16, and his parents moved houses, he and his brother found a lot of pornographic material that had been left at the house. This was a story not told just in a "by the way" manner, it was an important story.

- he has had a computer password now for over 3 years, and I know that he has viewed pornography on the internet. I have always said I disapproved of it, but it doesn't stop him.

- as someone who works with the internet, he always had a valid excuse to be online for hours and hours. Infact, he even suggested getting a second line installed at our house dedicated to the internet. At the time I thought this was due to his job ...... but now ....

- he also said I should get my own ISP subscription, and went as far as getting a list of rates for different ISPs

- He kept putting more and more memory on his computer.

- It got to the point where I wasn't allowed to use his computer - I got my own laptop.

- He eventually bought a 2nd computer - a laptop which he used for work-related things.

- He got into body building about 15 months ago

- He wanted me to start body building too - even went so far as to pay for a gym membership. I was doing fine just running and playing hockey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> He even wrote me a gym programme and tried to get me to do protein drinks. Before we were engaged, he told me that I should take up body building.

- The pictures/sites he seems to be into involve very muscular women. I am naturally quite athletic - this makes me cringe, because he has always said that is one of the reasons he found me attractive.

- He knows about photoshop and other programmes for altering images. He got a digital camera (an impulse buy) and took some (innocent) photos of me. I shudder to think of what happened to those .....

- When he was here, last year sometime, I opened his credit card bill out of curiousity (we have always kept separate finances). He got angry, snatched it away from me, claiming an invasion of privacy. I saw internet charges, but I never investigated them.

- He earns 1+1/2 times as much money as I do. It makes sense now that he hasn't been able to save.

- He put a lock on the bathroom door last year. We lived together for 4 years, without a lock. Our visitors never seemed to mind either.

- After our first year of marriage, he became very neglectful about the housework and chores (we had decided to share these evenly). His time was being spent online, or on his computer learning about programming websites and how to tweak images in photo shop.

Or maybe I am panicking. Not being able to sleep can make you blow things way out of proportion. These could all be co-incidental unrelated events.

But I fear they aren't.

Or maybe I am panicking. Not being able to sleep can make you blow things way out of proportion. These could all be co-incidental unrelated events.

I feel you aren't panicking either. Usually in these kinds of situations, your gut is telling you right. You just don't want to believe your gut because it is horrible. But it sounds like too many coincidences. I always think it is dangerous to have separate bank accounts- as you can see, this has allowed him to do things that you were clueless about. It is not an invasion of privacy, it is part of marriage. My ex-H would zone out sometimes. Actually a lot. It was strange, he didn't like me spending a lot of time with my friends, and he would call while I was out, and I just thought he was lonely, but then when I would get home he wouldn't pay any attention to me. I now realize that he was upset about me going out, because he knew he would be able to view the pornography, and I think he didn't want to be tempted and he could not control himself unless I was home, so then he would call me while I was out because he wondered how long he had to 'play', and then when I got home, he wouldn't talk to me or have sex with me, probably because he felt guilty or too tired after his 'playing'. ICK. It is awful to think of all those times that you thought you were just fine and those times that I was just at dinner or a movie with a friend, clueless of what a lie my life was. It is truly frightening!!
Keep me updated.

I am getting tied up in knots just wanting to know the answers to all of the questions that are now coming up.

The latest one is OMG - the infidelity may not just be restricted to Miss PC, but possibly an OM!!!!! The most likely candidate being WH's friend M. When I spoke with M (who ended his first marriage by an exit affair) some time ago I got the impression that he was telling me to move on. He listened very patiently, he told me that he was desparately sorry that all of this had happened in my life. He seemed alarmed when I told him that WH saw him as a role model and older brother figure. He has said that I am a "black and white person" much like his first wife.

This scenario might explain the text messages that WH sent to M. 19 text messages sent on Wednesday 8th April, some of which were after 12 midnight. BTW, they work in the same office. Numerous others while WH was on holiday for a week to sort his head out.

Some time ago, I had a conversation with WH where I said to him that I realised he was probably quite confused. He said he was really confused, and almost cried, which was really out of character for him.

This is doing my head in. But I'm not upset - I just want to understand what has happened.

I want to know what's going on. I want to put an end to the speculation and I want answers. But I am in plan B, so I can't ask him for answers. Odds are that he would just lie anyway.

What am I supposed to do?

I guess it comes down to whether I judge this to be an irretrievable situation. This is not the person I thought I was married to. But then maybe I was being fooled all along!!!

The fact that he is prepared to pay for internet pornography is horrifying to me. This behaviour probably IS more common than I think, but it is yet another secret that WH has kept from me. Not to mention the $$$ cost.

Let's take the "best case" scenario. Let's say WH has been subscribing to porn sites for two years - this seems likely given the computer password timeframe. This is 40% of the time we have been married. I'm not sure we could make it through this. Firstly he would have to admit there is a problem. Secondly, his job as an internet programmer puts temptation in front of him all of the time. He would never consider another job.

The worst case scenario: he's involved in a gay/bi situation and who knows what else. Well, I think that WOULD be beyond fixing.

Sorry for the soap opera storylines. I don't even watch TV these days!!

Dear Claire

I think you are working on a "need to know/want to know" basis here. Some of this stuff you may really not want to know about. The rest you may. Only you can decide what is relevant for you.

I am really sorry about this latest possible OM discovery. As I said in my last post, generally heterosexual men are not interested in the workings of gay porn. You are right too, if your H is struggling with his sexuality, I am sorry there is no way if he is gay that you and he can work anything out, let alone the porn aspects of all this. It would seem odd about his friend actively encouraging you to leave it be - what does he know that you don't? Your H's R with Miss PC could be a smoke-screen to cover his more complex issues around his sexuality generally.

Claire, these are of course major issues. If you break Plan B because you need to find these things out, I really don't see how this could damage what you are trying to achieve in Plan B. Plan B is about protecting yourself from further pain and hurt when your LB is running dry. Plan B following on from a good Plan A is also potentially to make the WS realise the loss of their BS and rely solely on OP to meet all their needs.

I think your LB is running dry fairly quickly. I sense that you want to know answers, but are not sure how to deal with your H. Do you have a mutual friend who you trust who could broker a meeting with you and H? Perhaps you should fix a MC session - tell your H on reflection you think it is a good idea (he neeed not know that you have very specific questions you want to ask).

Only you can decide if you need to confront this situation or not.

Keep us posted and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

Sorry for the soap opera storylines. I don't even watch TV these days!!

That is because you have your own soap opera. I had to turn off my TV for the most part too. I used to watch Guiding Light and everything, then decided I was living a soap opera, why waste time watching one? It is all sick now to me.
But ANYWAY!!! I do not know how to help you except to tell you that I would want to know if my H was gay or bi. This is important stuff. And if you have been sexually active with him, well he is putting you in danger. Of course he was anyways before. That really hasn't changed. But you deserve to know something this huge. Plan B to me, isn't really relevant at this time. I think I would do what LIsa in London says though and get a 3rd party involved. From what you say about your husband being angry if you go through his finances- well, confronting him with this will probably take his anger to a different level- I would try to get a MC involved. Hugs to you Claire- you WILL make it through this.

Hi Claire:

I was wondering. Could it be that he is viewing women together,i.e., lesbians, on the gay porn site. That would fit with his interest in you muscle-building. I have heard that there is a lot of interest in that kind of porno. YUCK!!!!

Claire

just my 2p worth from a male perspective.

- Do not necessarily assume that a gay porn charge on his bill, means that he has a strong interest in gay porn. He may just have been curious, or it may have been some sort of scam, which I believe are very common - who wants to ring the cc company and say that while they did order 'Busty Babes Bonanza' they didn't order 'Hershey Highway Homeboys', or vice versa?
- there may be other reasons why he was in so much contact with this 'OM' - OM might be facilitating the A in some ways, he may be a confidante, he may be a source of advice - as someone who has been in this marital situation etc.

My overall instinct would be for you to stick to plan B, try and put these 'nightmare fantasies' aside, and if and when plan B works and your WH wants to talk reconciliation, you can get to the root of it then. At the moment I don't think going deeper here can help you.

S.

Thanks for your input ADGirl, Mimi, Salerio,Lisa ...

I just need to calm down a bit. Salerio, I appreciate the male perspective you have offered. It could all be quite innocent ... somehow. ADgirl, yes I would want to know if he was bi or gay, and the health issues do freak me a bit. I did get tested for STI/AIDS etc about 1 week after DDay.

I have made an appt to see the M counsellor tomorrow.
I will take the bill with me.

I am inclined to stick with Plan B for the time being. It will do me no harm, so long as I can stop re-interpreting the past in strange new ways.

Just Breathing IN and OUT.

I did get tested for STI/AIDS etc about 1 week after DDay.


I do not intend to scare you anymore than you already are, but I was told that for anything to show up (like the other STDS ) you should wait about 3 months from the time you last had sex to get tested. It is possible I was misinformed but this is what the Labcorp people told me so I had to wait.