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Joined: Aug 1999
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NL,
Notice what Coffeeman said. There must be balance, BUT since your are way out of balance I made the suggestion that you focus on your H more, much more.
BUT, in order for you to recover your marriage you have to see things differently. If you really feel your H doesn't care about you, doesn't love you, doesn't want to be married to you, then you should probably divorce him.
I suspect that his addiction to games is more about his withdrawal from the situation. He doesn't know how to help you, he probably doesn't know how to deal with what he feels about the A's (I am presuming he knows about them both, I think I read where you said he did).
As you come out of withdrawal, and you start to focus on your H, you will find something very interesting, he will respond to you. Sometimes negatively, and sometimes very positively.
Please also note that what I have said to you about your actions, may not be what you feel or think, but an outside observer will not see that, neither will your H. Your second affair does NOT say that you cared about him MUCH no matter what you think to yourself.
One thing you need to understand and I think Coffeeman will confirm, you don't need to defend yourself here. Most people that have been here for awhile have been through, or read about situations covering an amazing spectrum of behaviors. You are NOT in the worst category. I know small comfort. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
But, the point is what I am saying to you about your behavior is very likely what your H is thinking and what is paralyzing him. If you really could not control your urges to have affairs, if ANY man could get you by flattering you, then he has no hope of making this marriage work. Do you see what I mean? You very likely are not like that, but he doesn't know, because he cannot read your mind. Plus, I seriously doubt you have the kind of conversation with him that we are having here.
You might have such a conversation,but it will be filtered through his pain.
There is so so many things to tell you, and suggest to you, but I do think you need to realize that your H's self-esteem has also taken a major hit. You have NEVER been rejected like you have done to him. So some of his behavior or lack thereof may be do to him, simply having no clue.
The other part is more complex and perhaps Coffeeman can help here. But, he has been betrayed twice, and the answer is for him to do "everything" for you, bring you presents, take you to romantic dinners, etc. This is very counter intuitive, and suggests that he must be completely under your thumb in order for you to stay with him. He must accept the affairs, the disrespect, and he must then be the model husband.
This is hard for BS's to handle. Do you see why I am talking to you about being the giver? It is to counter some of this before you two can start real recovery. As Coffeeman pointed out, being a total giver will end a marriage, as well as being a total taker.
Balance must be restored, but in my opinion if you want the marriage to work you do need to understand why you did what you did, but you must also help break down those walls around your H's heart. He put them up to reduce the pain.
Balance is the key, but it takes time and patience.
I suspect that both of you will have to learn new strategies on how to communicate these delicate issues.
So read what Coffeeman has bookmarked for you, and think about what I said. You don't have to agree, but realize that what you KNOW is in your heart is not as apparent to those around you, especially your H. The change in perspective is crucial to rebuilding your marriage, and for you having a happy life.
Must go.
God Bless,
JL
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Joined: Jul 2001
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TMCM and JL- You guys have given me alot to think about tonight. I can understand that the giver/taker relationship must be balanced in a M and I think that ours was initially. But, as with any M, as time goes on you kind of stop being the ideal spouse all the time. JL, I understand what you're saying about my H probably burying himself inside to hide from the pain but the truth is that he was like this before I had any A. And because he was like this and didn't make the extra effort to show me I was special, I think that had some contribution to me being susceptible to the flattery from an A.
JL,You said: [But, he has been betrayed twice, and the answer is for him to do "everything" for you, bring you presents, take you to romantic dinners, etc. This is very counter intuitive, and suggests that he must be completely under your thumb in order for you to stay with him. He must accept the affairs, the disrespect, and he must then be the model husband.]
This was an issue with my H before there were any A's. I had talked to him about this before and he never found it important enough to do. Not that that makes it ok for me to go outside my M to find it, but like I said, I think it contributed. Ever since I've known him, he's had this fascination with video games, which isn't necessarily bad. But, when he puts more time and energy into them then he does trying to find things for our M, then I think there's something wrong. He's not very motivated when it comes to doing special things for "us". But, boy oh boy, if he needs to find a secret code to advance in the video game, then by God he'll sit up day and night researching the internet until he finds it. Can you understand where I'm coming from? I think that in this aspect of our M I've been the giver and he's been the taker and I think that when someone was willingly offering me these things (even though it was done in a false contense) it was too tempting for me to pass up. So, now that I've screwed up and had my A's, how do I go back to how it was pre A and only be the giver and not the taker when I know how good it felt to be the taker once in awhile?? Also, TMCM, you said that the key was in doing the Policy of Joint Agreement where neither the giver or taker is in control but you go towards something that both parties agree with. But my question is, if my H was unwilling to want to put effort into things like that before, how in the heck am I going to get him to want to now after I've hurt him the way I did w/ my A's? I think he's going to be even more against researching things for us to do now then he was before. What do I do about this? Boy, I've really messed up........
NL
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">new*life:
"Also, TMCM, you said that the key was in doing the Policy of Joint Agreement where neither the giver or taker is in control but you go towards something that both parties agree with. But my question is, if my H was unwilling to want to put effort into things like that before, how in the heck am I going to get him to want to now after I've hurt him the way I did w/ my A's? I think he's going to be even more against researching things for us to do now then he was before. What do I do about this? Boy, I've really messed up........
NL" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NL have you considered writting your H a letter in which you specify some of the concerns you shared with us? How about considering the following (if it rings true to your situation):
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Dear H:
I'm writting you this letter in the hope that you and I could better understand one another.
First I want you to know that in no way, shape or form were you responsible for my chosing to have my affairs. I AM 100% responsible for that and will forever regret my selfish acts of betrayal for hurting you, the one person I know loves me more than anybody else in the world. The shame I have brought upon you and upon myself is sometimes more than I can bear and I can't help but to sometimes emotionally breakdown in private because of it.
I often wonder if you continually ask yourself 'If she truly did love me, then why did she betrayed me twice?' and all I can say that from my point of view it was not because the other men were better lovers than you BUT because they SEEMED to CARE about my thoughts, my feelings, my dreams, my goals, my accomplishments, etc all the things that were important to me. I felt emotionally cared for by these men, which sadly was something I did not feel when I was at home with you, especially when you were busy with your computer games. It felt so good to have someone show this kind of caring and concern towards me, that it was like a narcotic that I became easily addicted to and I wanted more of until I fell straight into a full blown affairs with them. But just like an addict suffers after the effects of the drug wear off, I too suffered from the shame and guilt of my betrayals to you.
I love you with all my heart and soul and before I let another affair happen, I will divorce you first rather than subject you to another round of unbearable pain.
If I learned anything from my two betrayals is that real love is not shown with beautiful words but with beautiful deeds. And I have committed myself to prove my love for you with deeds such as following the Marriage Builders principles [ I'm sorry NL I just couldn't help myself, I'm a MB junkie if you hadn't figured it out already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]. I cannot force you to follow me but it would mean a great deal to me if you decided to make the journey with me. " </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope that this gives you some ideas on how you can approach your H to let him know all the important things that you want him to know.
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Wow NL, U R one brave girl. Taking on the likes of our JL and TMCM!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Here's my shortened version of what those guys have been saying. Men have different communication methods than women. They have given you a male insight and a BS insight. Inbetween that insight somewhere is where your H's thoughts lie.
Notice how it infuriates, saddens and confuses you. It would to most of us girls. Being in the fog doesn't help.
I am not saying this to go against their words. What they are bring out is quite accurate. So now you are getting the BS POV but from one of your own kind (womankind) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
Here's what might help. U go find the Dr. Harley book, his needs/her needs. Read it. Leave it around for your H to 'browse' through.
Some guys don't like being told what to do. Might even be willing to lose all as a result.
All the while you think you are fighting for your M and he is fighting for his pride. Different battles....same war.
Read the book and reread the JL and TMCM's posts. Might sit better the next time around.
take care, L.
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I am sorry to dissapoint you.
You said;
"I am sure that every BS out there hates my very being and I don't blame them one bit."
I am a BS. I don't hate you.
This sort of theatrical breast-beating is tiresome, and doesn't work around here.
I'd be more impressed if you stopped this nonsense and discovered more intimate secrets of your own soul and character.
Give it a rest Lady Macbeth.
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