Oh Wangi, I'm so sorry. I really felt that his past was plagued with some sort of abuse, and to see you write it like that was as if a lot of what I felt and saw in his writing just got confirmed. It's sad how you can so see in his own words the hurt and disaster from his past that is still plaguing him. Not much you can do to help him right now, except be there if you want when he needs it but most important work on yourself for you.

"how bad can an A be when all the wayward spouses could only get the "needs"(whatever that is)being met by someone who only around in good times? How bad can it be? He always compare what he gets from OP and not from me..but he is not looking deeper."

Exactly! He's not looking deeper. It took me about 2 yrs. to finally look deeper and see that it was all a fantasy and not reality. To sit and draw the image of what life would be like with the OP 24/7. It wasn't pretty, and more important, it was nothing like being with DH, and that was what I really wanted and lived for - my marriage and life with DH. Maybe a few changes in meeting needs and such, but that was from both sides. It took me some time to see this, and I came close to losing it all, but I came through and have a wonderful marriage with my husband now.

"Please trust me that my WS is indeed a good man except he is so very screw-up, in deep fog..."

I trust you. I'm not a bad person, but I allowed myself to do something bad - I hurt the person most dear to me. I was supposed to be the one person he could count on and I betrayed him. That, that is something I have to live with for the rest of my life. It's not easy facing that truth, and it's even harder living with it, especially when you are supposed to forgive yourself.

Your comments about looking at your wedding pictures and such hit a chord. I can remember how my DH would tell me that on some nights when I'd go out he'd look at our wedding pictures and/or video and cry. It breaks my heart, to this day, to think of it. My wedding day is still very blessed to both of us, but only because of the efforts put into rebuilding.

It can be done, but it takes time. Unfortunately there are some strong deep scars from his past that he is so desperately hiding from right now. I so hope that he does get help some how some way and can find the direction he wants to lead. All my best to you both. I will keep you in my thoughts. There is so much more to this and that makes it all the more difficult to break through the fog. Take care.

Thanks so much Princess, it was comforting to know other can understand, I was just about to post a new topic and came across your reply, it always help to get support, yes, it is more than just my WH's A that I am dealing with, I look at all the pain and fear etc, really if it was JUST the A, I believe I would have been gone by now, I look very deeply into all his other problems, it is all very sad, his pop is 70 now and began to tell WH "I love you" but WH could not really response well but cried most of the time, I know the pain that OW would never knew,OW only knew what a bad wife I was to WH. WH had been crying quite a bit since his A,(the very first time I ever saw him cried was over 3 years ago when he smashed all my perfumes collection after finding out that I was speaking to OM-XBF(my so-called EA)I was so angry(that he smashed my perfumes; and said to him that I wanted a divorce, he cried over the phone while talking to his mom about my asking for divorce, you know what, when I saw his tears,my heart broke but I never told him that hurt me) there are so much unspoken fear within, the problem is he is not letting me in to try to help in anyway I could...perhaps you are right that he never had one as "cool"(rather as patient)as me, he does not know how to accept me being "there" for him even when he jerks me around, I do not know the exact reason but I know he is like a child that yearns to be loved and to love, he thought maybe OW is the one he loves and she loves him??? Maybe that IS the answer? Frankly, I think he needs to forgive and love himself first, otherwise he has nothing to offer anybody?! When I read some others' threads (not often enough but I tried) I wish my WH could turn around like d_rose's ..they broke down, asked for forgiveness and thanks for coming home etc..I imagine to see that from WH, I wanted a good cry and a very sincere embrace with love and forgiveness...you know that morning when I spoke to OW asking favor from OW that please make sure WH studies etc...OW asked me if I had sex with WH and told me that I should just seduce him and make him have sex with me and everything will be ok, was that naive or what? It torn me apart that OW thought everything could be back on track by having sex with my WH her lover? Anyway, OW has a mind of her own, selfish! Anyway, Princess thanks so much, I wish WH knows and recognizes that many are here to help him, he is not the only one, yes with his past and all, he can be healed instead of keep running..he really thinks that OW is the Q & A for his problem..In case you wonder, I am doing ok, I have always been except when I first found out, I could not sleep and eat and I lost 16 lbs(94lbs) but WH said that was my choice of not taking care of my health, anyway I did not expect him to feel anything about my health, he has not been GOOD to me since his brutal A..you know Princess I am not angry anymore, I just feel sad. With many thanks from the bottom of my heart.

I'm glad I can be of some comfort and help to you. I know that many times it really helps to hear from an XWS. I have come a long way, but it can and does take time.

I don't think that your WH sees the OW as his love, I think he sees her as someone to be unattached to. With you he can see how close you are and how much you care, and that scares him; but with her there are no such *strings* (for lack of any better way to say it). It's all just convience, fantasy, and truthfully not real.

I so wish you WH would consider counseling. If only he would at least give it a shot. If it's not for him, then at least he tried. He needs to learn that it's ok to feel the way he does, but it's not healthy to keep it all in. He needs to learn productive ways to release these pains, and slowly allow the two of you to grow into what you can - and I think that could be something wonderful.

I'm glad you are doing well and the anger is passing for you. That's very good to hear. Yes, it may have been your *choice* so to speak to let your health go, but sometimes that's hard to avoid. However, you are showing great strength in taking advantage of the choice to take care of yourself now. I can see that you are still there for your WH, and one day I hope he realizes how blessed he is to have that. I know it's hard to wait for his day of remorse, but know that the remorse we WS' feel is very strong when it happens. It's not easy to see ourselves in that ugly light, and for many they try so hard not to have to do it that way. Bottom line is, we have to. I hope he does come around, but in the mean time I pray that God continue to stand by your side through this. You've found a great place to come and get support. The people are wonderful, and know that they are truly here for you.

Wishing you all my very best.

Princess, I feel very very blessed to have all the positive supports from you and other@MB. I wish I was here since DDay last June( I have said before, the DDay was our 5th anniversary the day we left HK for SF...sob) I wish, I wish WH will come around, who knows maybe not forever; or by the time he comes around is when I already move on with my life in a very positive way?? I am in no position to worry about what/where the future hold for the M, if there is still a M? Very likely WH wants to beg for OW to take him and build the exciting life he "strongly believes in" yet he dismissed the D? Ironic, isn't it? Anyway, I have to take great care of Wangi here for she deserves excellent treatment and no more unhealthy life with lies and cheatings. It is not easy, last July 4th,we had BBQ with good friends and at night WH walked to the beach with me and even told me that he wanted to watch sunset with me nightly and share a life with me when we move to LA for his grad.school, it was all beautifully said, but the fact was he and OW planned(before my discovery)to move to LA together and WH divorces me later on without me knowing there IS an OW..all planned, how cruel, but God never allowed lies hence it was discovered. Last year 7-5 & 7-6 WH spent two nights with OW across the bay,after OW returned from Cancun with OM on 7-4, at that time, (at that time we had just moved into a new apartment with the "idea" to start anew, but the fact was WH planned to move to a lower rent apt that I can afford on my own when WH lives a new life with OW in LA, WH supposedly broken off with OW in early July 02 but they emailed and planned(made up) their little weekend together via phone/email) WH still lied that he was going somewhere "by himself" he convinced me to "trust him" and I did for a bit but not totally..when he returned I found her hair on his car and even in the cooler, he still lied, his beloved uncle came to visit us on the 7-8 and WH convinced uncle that it was all over and uncle believed him, now you know why uncle would feel betrayed and not talking to him ever since...how much he had learnt to lie killed me, slowly but surely...my heart dies on his lies
Princess, I believe you can understand the pain I have had dealing with this brutal A of his, when WH kept on running to want to "believe" that OW is the one, that hurt...he has a couple of ICs and even a psychiatrist, we started with a MC twice,(when he left OW almost a month ago..)but very unlikely I will go this week as scheduled when we are not talking anymore. Where is the M when OW still involve with WH? Why MC? I am confuse but I must take good care of myself. This long weekend will be really hard for me..I wanted to be with my "family"(my only family here is WH!)let's pray that I will be strong and not depress.( I wish I had a heart of stone like WH has on me) Peace on earth, once again, Princess, you have been a GREAT help, I am very touched by your sincerity and honesty. You may email me wangiaja@yahoo.com for I would really like to communicate with you via email, if that is ok. Thank you.

Wangi, I'm pleased that I can have such a positive effect on you. Truth is, I am very forward with my story. I am the WS, or should I say WAS the WS. I know how desperately the BS needs to understand and know things from my perspective, and one of the things that helps me take some good out of my lessons is to try to help others in the same place. I have come a long way in the past 2 yrs., but it did take some time to get there. You see, what your WH has to face in order to get to where I'm at is a lot, and that with the other demons he's battling just are a lot for him right now. Also, you mentioned how he called it off with her a couple of times only to go back. It may be different, but for me I believed and felt that I could deny everything, end my affair and move on. However, while it was still so hidden from my DH it was still hidden from me and I could not escape the web I'd wove around me until I faced it all open.

If you really want to know the ups and downs of my story, here is a link that will direct you to several others throughout my progress. Some will be tear jerkers to say the least (at least they were for me), but they are all very open and honest. This is the story behind the WS, this is my story - which I am very pleased to say has a very very happy ending, and is only getting better.

My Story

Thanks Princess, I will read them all later when I am done with my assignments@work; as I know they can be very emotional and I do cry easily, but I know it will help me to understand WS better. Truly in my heart I feel as if he will never come home,ever. My heart breaks..how an honest(very) and virtuos man(past tense) can be so destructive, thoughtless, dishonest,... cheats,lies..many times he said he would stop lying but he couldn't stop, in fact the way he lied to OW (though he denied it, for instance when he did not file the divorce he told OW he did....and hid a lot of things/feelings where I "was" concern from OW)these can be proven that the A can't change him to be as happy as he thought he could be. It is him, the inner self, pain, fear that draw him away from being who he WAS...I still feel very sad about him, not letting me help him or work things out with me,( I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT WE COULD HAVE A GOOD/BETTER M ESP.AFTER THIS WAKE-UP CALL-HIS A!)I know he feels really bad/low about himself that he feels like rejecting me and running to OW can give him a NEW exciting life?! You and I know, it is not that simple, many times, he forgets about OW's 2 adolescent girls..he always make up a future(exciting and sexual, as if like you can just have sex daily when you "live" together!) with OW only, I know if and when the girls find out that he IS a married man, his dream with OW crashes and we know it will...it is the fantasy, so is a fantasy for OW being involved with a married man and defeats the W.(so it shows OW is more powerful, prettier, sexier, better ....than the W! All the OW believe they are better, anyway) All so cruel and selfish. Anyway, thanks Princess, once again.

Princess,I printed your stories and read them all,I was very touched and happy for you that your M is doing great, why can't my H be like you?I would love to see him become a FWS someday, you know what, I have been only thinking about me thelast few days,he left me two v/m last night,one about canceling the MC that he was not ready to go as yet(I mentioned that we supposed to see MC this week as the 3rd session together,since last week, when he admitted that he contacted OW after 2 weeks NC...I see no reason to go to MC,and then sort of agreed to go to talk about the "situation"...I silent for the last few days) one was about asking me TO DO or NOT TO DO something like email? I did not understand, perhaps he meant not to do anything to hurt WH & OW's A? WH has always suspect I sent OW emails or call her or had my friends call her etc...I just ignored his messages and did not want any of their ACTIONS bother me, let them realize what damages they have done(created) to ALL(me,his family and friends,her daughters etc)I want to be stronga nd I MUST! I feel better about myself when I did not think about those two cheaters. I love my job and am doing so much better at work,I will have more responsibilities from next week on, taking over role as interpreter for depo,arb,mediation, that means I will have to work side by side with the Esq. outside the office as well, a big challenge but I know I can become whole. Perhaps I really do not want my M anymore?! Of all he has done to me to hurt me, to continue to hurt, he really does not love me AT ALL, not even to care, never mind showing any remorse, I really don't see him coming home, I feel like there will not going to be any chance until OW really dumps him...I care
and love WH deeply but it is time to move on, let the destructive A(and WH) go..I don't want to feel the pain anymore, I deserve much better,at least when you FWW decided to go home, you just did it,Blah sways again and again, yes, his childhood abuse etc has destroyed him, but he is CHOOSING to be in the mess with an adulteress and I can't be a part of that sick game anymore. I don't want a D either, I just don't want to know about them,the liars and cheaters that support each other to lie and cheat,betrayal is allowed in their selfish dictionary. I had replied his email with brief answer on the "subject" line only,won't call or speak to him. I feel better that I am NOT in the game with them. My WH always use whatever said in the book SAA that applied to his A, WH always said that 60% of married men have affairs, so that is an OK that he has one...25% of the A works out(into marriage) so he gathers that he is one of the 25%..MY version-101% of the fantasies remain fantasies! I am at a point that I don't even want to know how is WH doing with his school? You know even last week I told him that we could move to Hawai'i( he likes sun and beach)if he fails school. I do not mind to "start all over" in the Isalands, I love the culture/hula etc,I have a dream to study the language and someday to contribute something back to the Hawaiian, perpetuate the culture. I know it is hard to even get a job there, I had rather be poor than to lose him! We used to always argue about moving to Hawai'i, as I can't stand the weather(though I grew up in a tropical country) now, I would do anything JUST to be with him and I believe(d) that we could rebuild our M and make it better...what I mean is it is time that I "sacrifice" some..he used to give up a lot just to make sure I was taken care of, he used to put me FIRST and loved me so much...you understand why I could hate OW to take him away. Now, I know I must go on. My memories of us together(the good one) flows in my head a lot, just not these four days since I stopped talking to him...I am scare too, the reality of losing him forever, but I can't worry, right? Take care of Wangi(fragrance in Malay, "Onaona" in Hawaiian) Thanks so much Princess (in Malay it is "Puteri",isn't it beautiful?)

Hi Princess, you must busy with your family for the long weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> , I did something with my friends today but became bummed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> right now, right before sun sets..last year Blah took me to watch sunset by the beach,he held me tight and said very nice thing to me that he want(ed) to watch sunset with me "everyday", be with me, start all over in LA...then he lied,he went away with OW the next day for two nights in Holiday Inn Express across the GG Bridge..when he left the next morning, I gave him my cell phone, wanted him to call me(he had not get his "own"cell phone then, he has it now "just for OW"...)he assured me that he WAS really going away ALONE!!! I feel so down now, what he said to me on last 7-4 was sweet but did not mean a thing he said, how could my WH lied sooo much that he does not know how to stop now..he must be feeling very painful what has become of him now, I am sure, he was a very honest man that I trusted MOST in my entire life, he is no different than any dishonest men now, he does not even know "how" or "when" to stop now?! I feel so painful thinking of him this way, it hurts so bad. You know Princess he hasn't sleep for as long as his A began, that is 19 months now, though our M was not good enough for him, we were able to sleep soundly everynight, we were able to live like normal couple, we shared good times and some bad, we fought, we ate well...we basically lived a pretty good life except for all his so-called emotional needs were not met by me?! He ran, keep running...so, OW should be back tomorrow, they probably will discuss and OW will take him back, I am sure of it, then he will divorce me for real this time...I do not feel good about it, I have a feeling that that would be it, and he is gone, he is gone with another cheater/liar/adulteress....I hate myself for not being able to just heck care..am I useless or what? I get sentimental about a lot of things, WH does not think I am romantic, I am sentimental, I am practical, I do not use words that are commonly used well by "sales woman"(OW is a typical sales rep that sell her body well)You know Ow always say to WH that she misses his "face",she wants his "unit",she wants to cut off his lips(for he is a good kisses and he has sexy lips, that is true)WH does not like when OW wants him for all these reasons, he felt like prostitute esp.OW always leave him after sex. We all know OW went to see WH for "OW"...when will WH realize that he is running away from his problems again? Perhaps you and many can understand...the doer always find out after everybody else..right? SF is a foggy city-most of the time, so the fog is still very thick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> for WH..sigh..blah blah blah, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I just want to vent <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , thanks for reading, I should be blessed that I am not alone. Thanks all.

Hi Wangi, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I'm not on on the weekends, but I wanted to check in on you this morning. I'm so sorry you had such down moments. Know this, you are NOT useless! You are doing the right thing with thinking and doing for you. You cannot control him and his actions, only your own. As it may be hard, you are showing good strength and wonderful qualities.

You are right though, 101% of the fantasy stays a fantasy. In time he will realize that this isn't real, him and OW, and that it's so far from what he wants and needs. Here's hoping he doesnt' see it too late.

The reason I wanted you to read my story isn't so you could see what you aren't getting in return, but so you can see that it is possible. It took me a long time to get to that point. I cannot tell you how many times I looked my DH in the eye and lied to him. How many times I tried to break free, but couldn't and went right back into my lies, thinking if I could just hold his suspician off a little longer I can break away and fix my marriage. I made love to him in the moring before work and stopped to have a cup of coffee with OM on my way in. How wrong is that? I'm not in any way proud of the things I did. Just this weekend I cried on my DH's shoulder about how sorry I am for every hurting him. Even when I could start to see the flaws (and they were huge) in having a relationship with OM I still for some reason found it hard to break away. I cannot explain that. It's just this hold the affair takes on you. The more vulnerable you are though the easier it is for the affair to grasp you.

You know, maybe your WH will never come around, or he will and it will be too late, but know that things in his world with OW are far from perfect. They are far from real, no matter how many times he tells you they are. How can something built on lies and deceipt be real in any way? Even if he hadn't directly lied to her, it would still be build off of lies and deceipt.

Hang in there Wangi, and continue to work on making you a happier you. Together or apart, the road ahead is going to be long and hard, but in the end you will come out a better person because of what you put into it. Keep doing what you are doing. Don't play up to his cues and cries. Short, simple, or no responses.

All my best, and I truly do hope he comes around and the two of you can begin to heal together.

Thanks Princess, it always help to hear from you, I mean it. If you are interested in whatever happen to WH, read my recent post "WH threatened if I meddled in his A,THAT'S IT for our M". What more can I say? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My heart bleeds, as much I want to deny that I am indeed weak, I tried to be strong...I know he is gone, he won't come home. Too much pain too much guilt? I don't know. Just to run, run away..run from one "bad" marriage to a cheating A. How well can it be? Fighting over something unreal that fill with deceptions rather than something that is real with truthfulness, of course the earlier is easier. You know I know, perhaps he knows too. But he is UNWILLING to face the truth. He knows how deluded is OW,he knows how insecure to be a flirt like her,she is good at cheating and sleeping around, she is a sales rep(not to offense any other that is sales rep, but OW uses her sales tactics on my WH! That is cruel!)Princess, I guess no matter what I must remember to take great care of me, and keep all the good memories of "us" in me, why is he always say that I am angry, yes,from time to time, but he was the one that always scream and shout when his A does not go as he wishes, why? Is it so convenient to just blame your BS? How could someone honest(past tense) lied so mucha nd not feeling it? Is it ok to continue to lie and cheat and hurt others that love you? Why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I guess I do know, but sometines I am just confuse, I am just but an ordinary human who happen to be an enduring BS that endures no more. Thanks.