Read about writing a Plan B letter...can be VERY effective. It's a way to let the WS know their terms for coming back...to know that they won't have you to "fall back on" if/when things don't work out in the harsh cruel world.

He will probably balk and complain, my H did...said I was trying to control him. But it is a kindness to not kick him out on the street without some guidance as to how to come back. I asked for 5 things...N/C with OW (letter), counseling, meds, honesty and accountability, and time. He's going to the Dr. today and that will be 5/5.

It was hard at first when he left...lots of loose ends, and I wanted to talk with him and call him constantly. Keep Busy! Take your mind off things for awhile until that passes. Decide how you're going to handle situations (like money). Make a plan.

I'll be thinking about you, and remember you are blessed with a miracle...what a wonderful body you have to be able to grow another human!

Lisa,

How are you? Praying that all is okay with you.

Do you have WS kids there yet for the visit? What is up with that?

Just want you to know I'm thinking about you. Please update, let us know how you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

Lisa, just checking in ,HOW are you feeling ?

AND HOW is the visit for the summer going with all the kids??

IS your WS spending time with his children ??

ARE you all spending the time together as a family ??

Well thinking of you and hoping all is well , I hope you are feeling better and trying to take much care OF yourself as possiable .

HOW is the pegnancy going ?

PLEASE post soon with an update , to any decisions you may have made we are all here for you and praying for your family .

Hi everyone,

All me and WH do is fight anymore. He is still in my face with A. It looks like we are going to seperate at the end of the summer. We are really not talking or doing anything together. He has almost finishe reading SAA and I really cant see how he thinks it would be best if we seperate. I have told him I am questioning his motivates for this seperation. I have told him that there will be guidelines and he says yea I am just your puppet. I think he thinks he is gonna come and go as he pleases. I really dont want this seperation but I dont know what else to do. It is 5 months today from D-day. I cant get the images of them together out of my head. Before I was able to and was able to be with my H. They have taken everything from me and my marriage. I now live with a total stranger.

WH kids are coming tomorrow for two weeks..really dont know how this is gonna be. I am going to make it the best I can for everyone involved.

I feel as though there is nothing left but to file for divorce.

Please help the agony is unbearable.

Lisa , you sound just like me , all I would do at one point was fight . Alot of LB'ing going on .

YOU also sound angry and I totaly relate , BUT you are pushing him closer to OW , With all the fighting .

WALK away , get out of the room , do not listen ,

YOU must learn to not RE-ACT , he is goating you I am sure , even if he starts to talk at this point it pisses you off right or wrong?

I am sure you are getting to that stage yelling at him telling him enough already grow up , yelling and telling him everything he is doing to you .

IF I am wrong let me know . I only say this cause living with the A in the face throughs all PLAN A out the window most of the time ..

All the BULL$HIT words of it will stop soon , I am sorry , then the temper flares again and WS gets his BALLS ON (sorry for expression) AND starts acting like what he is doing is almost ok and not hurtful (real smug)

STEP away ,, he is drawing you into his DRAMA ..

THE more you go there the less he hears you !

THE more you fight the more he runs for confort with OW , like you are the big bad wolf trying to control him ...

YOU can not control him , this must be his choice .

I don't want to sound like this is a game , but when you don't fight with WS they tend to feel more guilt to what they are doing ,,, I know I use to feel the oppisit that if I don't tell him every min. then he will continue to hurt me and think I am ok with it ,,,,, NOT TRUE at all .

CALM and QUIT was the way to go ,, MY H felt more guilty (which he hated) by seeing my pain not hering about it . HE would then try to get me to fight so his guilt would go away ,,, but when I learned to step back and not get pulled into the drama thats when things loosened up a bit ..

WE talked more and he was starting to understand that I could let go if I choose to (let go of him)

I am not preaching to you , cause I know all of this is so very hard ,eiser said then done .

I was a teribble at listening to all this (right MM) I refused to see passed my anger , but when I did and when I relized I was choosing to stay in this situation (with A ongoing) THEN I needed to bickle down and start working . FIHGTING was not the way .. I am not saying be a door mat but that expression can be used incorrectly ..

SOME say I was , BUT I felt differently .. SO you need to sit down and decide to pick yourself up and make your PLAN .

I hope to here from you soon , be well and step back for your own sanity and for the sake of saving your M ..

3,

I just dont know how to be. I have been trying to detach myself from him in preperation for this seperation. It is so hard to Plan A while I am pregnant. You are right I do feel as though he is closer to her than ever. All I do anymore is cry..I hate myself so much right now.

I am also having trouble with my daughter because she thinks I am the one breaking up this family. She has said some really awful things to me. I want to tell her the truth but H does not want me to. She adores him..always has. I am going to try my hardest to not LB or fight with him anymore.

L

I feel so hopless right now. When the WH writes a letter and says he thinks we should seperate..what are his intentions?? WH has told me he doesnt want to hurt me anymore and I said like this is not going to hurt me. He told me he can see nothing clear right now. WH also said he wants this seperation to hurt him..he wants to miss me.

I told him it is so hard for me to believe a word he wrote or says because of all the lies. We also have talked about EN and how we are not even trying right now to meet each others. I told him him there was no way he could miss me and our relationship because he has someone else to meet his EN. He got very angry at me and said "what does she do for me..she is not fulfilling any needs." I said obviously she is or we wouldnt be in this position in the first place.

I just feel as though he wants to end this and is too much of a coward to say so. I just feel as though this seperation will be the beginning of the end for us.

L

Lisa, YOU need to breack this down , we will start here and others I am sure will jion in cause I do not have a savey way with words .WHAT I am feeling doesn't always come out right way on paper /computer LOL HERE GOES .

1- Feeling as the separation is the beging of the end ? also that he is a coward .
HE is a coward , that part is true , he is so confused and scared that he is not just wanting to run from you but himself . DO not worry about that time will catch up with him .. HE can run but he can't hide .

OK if the separation is the end ,, then it is his failure . AND really would you want him for any other resaon then one of commitment and love to you . ?? LETS say he is not in FOG (witch he IS NO DOUGHT ) IF he truely loved someone else would you want him to stay with you ? SO that takes care of the seoaration part .

IT will not be easy everyone here told you and if you read here MIMI & LEARIN are in PLAN B (just to name 2 and they were scared to death that it will be the end .. AND if it is I can tell you during that time you will see more if a SELF RECOVERY !!

OK 2- you being pregnant and your emotions I can't relate totaly (only imagine I have been pregnant 2not going through this at same time )

BUT we will use PMS as a horriable close second . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Theres nothing you can do about it your hormones are all over so you have to try some sort of relaxsation for that yoga ,, breathing I don't know but you must calm down ...

YOUR D that blames you ,, I forgot how old (think 13 ???) why can't you explain ?? who cares at this point if he don't want her to know , you need to lighten the lode on you ..

MY 8yr son did the same thing ,, told me DAD was not with us because I didn't want him here and that I yelled to much .. I sat him down and set him straight . I explained that M couples , adults some times disagree and get angree at one another ,,, BUT I still loved his DAD very much and that he could come home and be part of this family anytime he wanted as long as he loved MOMMY and was kind to me cause no one diserves to be treated badly ..

I told him straight out the fights he heres is mommy wanting daddy to be here and I was fighting to keep this family together .. THEN I started talking about choices and told him dad has a choice to be with us he chooses not to ..

SO with that said, my children saw things differently .. THEY saw them for what they were , I stopped the yelling and if my kids heard anything they heard me explaining and communicating to my H .. THEN you know what they started questioning him .. I did not play them against there dad I always told them he loved them and was a good dad and even a good H .

OK next he wants to miss you ,, ok start now , back off , I know you said, its hard but you have to .. and is he lieing ? does he want to be out to see OW more MAYBE ,, but there is nothing you can do about it ,, THIS is one situation in life you can't control .. (him ) YOU can only control You .

THINK about it if he leaves and is with her then she has to do everything also you already said, she sleeped with her XB while she was with your H , give me a breack this is a first class A$$ hole just to start with . IS he really going to settle into some life with a women who is a tramp .

I don't think it will take long for the BOY to be running home , if he left ..

BUT right now fighting , is giving him the excuse he wants to feel better about leaving .. BELIVE ME I did that to the first time it pushed him right out the door at one point told me he would never look back . 5 months later he was crying , on his knees to come home he nearly had a nervous break down !

LISA, When we first started posting to each other you told me it was the same situation and I do agree the ongoing A in your face ,, I told you then it was hard and that I may not have made the right choice for my personal health to let him stay home , but I said, I understand if you try to work on M with him there ,, BUT NOW he is not working and he is saying he wants to go ..

THIS is not easy but you need to let him leave , you can read my posts over in my threads I always said, if he would get out I would pack him up ..

PLAN B does work and I think you are more ready for it then you know ,, ready for it because if you don't then you will allow him to emotionaly cripple you more ..

YOU need the rest from the DRAMA , him gone , you can get a life back for yourself . GO through the process with family and friends to become strong again ..

PLEASE think about this and rember the longer he is there and you 2 fight the more it is only hurting the recovery that could take place and the more he only sees the bad in the M .. HE doeasn't see that he is making you like this ,, that is part of the FOG ,, he sees you doing it to yourself .. (sick world that FOG )) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I will check in later . what do the kids know ?

Oh and one more thing , OMG I am so fired up knowing how much your hurting I really do understand ..

ANY way you said, about hating yourself ,, well please understand that , part of that comes from him , no all of that .....

YOU are a good person , you are loving and caring , and I to went through that because my H ruined my self esteem always pointing out how out of control I was .

WELL while he was gone I was able to see what my true faults where and the ones he through on my lap that where not , the ones he tried to convince me of .

AND he knows now that there is no telling me I am crazy ,, it was him that went FOGGY !

OK I just had to say that ,, please write back .

JUST ramble as much as you want ,, It helps so much I use to do that here all the time even if no one responded LOL

I was so nuts I just had to get every feeling out don't care how it sounded just how and what I was going through at the time ..

PRAY and be calm .. PLEASE !!

Just thought I'd pop in and give you some support and a hug.
This is tough stuff you are going through, especially being pregnant! Try to concentrate on keeping yourself and baby healthy and looking out for D.
I finally told my kids what was going on, the older ones knew, 12 yr.old was a bit in the dark.
Even though WH threatened to tell them and introduce them to OW, every time I gave him an opportunity to sit down with me and talk to them, he backed out. So finally, I felt I should tell them, I didn't want 12 yr old to be with WH sometime and have him surprise him with "oh, this is OW"! Don't be afraid to be honest with D, you have no obligation to protect WH!! He should be protecting YOU!!
Consider Plan B. It is a very hard step to take, but once taken, it's not long before it starts to pay off. What I mean is, I'm no longer as emotional, I don't have to hear his voice or his anger, or get soo hopeful when he is nice only to be slammed again! Yeah, I miss him, but it's getting easier.
Now I'm feeling I've fought long and hard for him for months now, he knows how I feel and where I stand, now the ball is in his court, if he wants us, it's his turn to fight for us and to figure how to do that. And if doesn't, well then, I guess he isn't the man we need anyways.
You will get stronger, trust in that, I never believed I would even though everyone was telling me I would.
Hang in there, don't give up, but let some things go, most of it is out of your hands now. Take care of the things you can do, and everything will work out, with or without him! Trust that!!

Lisa I would like to suggest that you DO tell your daughter the truth without resorting to angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements (as Joe Friday would say 'just the facts maam'). Your WH has to face up to the consequences of his actions and one of them is explaining himself to his daughter. IF he truly feels bad about his daughter knowing the truth, he will no longer be able to beleive that his selfish behavior does not affect her. Besides the truth will come out anyway, isn't it better that it come from you instead of from someone else?

Lisa,

{{{{hugs}}}} Sounds like you are really between a rock and a hard place right now.

I agree with all that you need to sit down and talk to your 13 year old. I know my daughter blamed me for a lot when my h was having his a.

So when might you have a talk with her and explain what is going on? I say it needs to wait until after WS children leave after their two week visit.

Perhaps, for the kids sake you need to step back and make this a good time for all. This may sound silly because you are going thru so much and your hormones are raging. I just don't think this would be a good time to tell your daughter with all the events that will be happening in the next couple of weeks. After all, she is 13, full of hormones, and you don't want her to be telling WS kids all that is going on.

You and H have worked for a long time to see his kids and have a nice visit. Maybe I will get flamed for this, but try to remove yourself from the A and situation. Do your best plan A and have a good time with those kids. I am assuming that your WS is not going to separate from you until his kids have left after their visit.

You said that you and WS are not meeting each other's EN's right now. Could you find it in yourself to distance yourself for these next few weeks and try to fulfill some of your WS's EN's while the stepkids are there? Can you step back from all of this and go ahead and enjoy the children and have a good time? I think you need to let this all go for the time of the visit. I know your hormones are raging right now and it is very difficult.

Is your 13 yo witnessing your LBing and arguing with your WS? Please do everything you can to stop that if this is happening. If you get overwhelmed, go off by yourself, cry if you need to and pray for self control. Don't show this to kids, WS. Your 13 yo is going through a hard time and does not have all the facts to help her understand that you are not the bad person here.

Since I don't believe WS will separate from you until the visit is over, try to make it a good time for all. Use this time as an opportunity to show WS what a good wife and mother that you are. And you know you are.

Use this time to step back, no R talk, no A talk, nothing about this mess while kids are visiting. Go on about your life at this time as if this were not happening. You are aware of what your h needs. Use this visit as an opportunity. I know it will be hard. Make this time a time of wonderful memories for H and stepkids, for all. No fighting.

Do not respond to WS fogspeak. What he said about OW not fulfilling any of his EN's is fogspeak. If that were true then why is he continuing. I believe that if WS can stay away from ow during this much planned for and wanted visit with kids, and you can show everyone who you really are, it will help.

Step back, pray for a calm heart and clear mind, and don't speak of R or A right now. Not good for you or kids. And if WS takes off during this time to see ow, do not react. Step back, acknowledge how you feel, and do not, I repeat, DO NOT REACT. Realize how you feel, and let it go when the bad feelings start to subside. Think of what is healthiest for you, kids, WS, unborn child. Then do that. You cannot make WS do the right thing at this time, but you can make a choice to do the right thing at this time.

I know it is hard. Come here to vent. We all care about you. You are a good person, you are doing the best you can. Come here for help and to vent, just don't vent to WS right now.

Try to give kids and WS a stress free, calm, and comfortable time. Let go of all of this for now and show all how wonderful you really are. Because you are wonderful, and WORTHY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Read up on Plan A. No more fighting, not good for you, your R or kids.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi Everyone,

I hear what you are saying and I do think it is time to tell my 13yr old D. Last night she said to me "I dont know why you are still married to him its obvious he doesn't love you anymore." Do you know how devastating this is to me.

Today I saw WH and OW together. She worked with him all morning. In my work truck. Who do they think they are?? I pulled right up next to them where they were parked. She laughed at me and WH acted like it was no big deal. When he finally came home he said to me "I dont know why you are acting like this is a big surprise, I have told you the situation." Yeah the situation is that my H is in love with another woman and would rather maintain that relationship at all cost than to even try to work on his marriage.

The only reason I didnt have his S^&T on the front lawn is because of the kids. But how long can I keep letting him pay no consequences for his decisions and actions. How long do I let him treat me like an *******. Theres no way I can carry this child, it gets harder and harder everyday.

Lisa why not consider having your 13 year old help you take all your WH's stuff to the OW's and deliver to her front door. Who knows, maybe if he saw his daughter delivering his stuff would send a strong message how selfish and thoughtless his behavior towards you and her has been. You may even take advantage of delivering the Plan B letter to him personally at the same time.

What happens when you confront him? Are angry words spoken? Are insults thrown?

How can you be the good person you are without resorting to LB's. I read (on here I think) recently that we learned all about getting angry by the time we were 2 and when we get angry we use all those 2 year old skills again. We've not grown out of how to get angry.

Does that mean not to get angry? No, but what are you REALLY feeling? When I'm angry it's usually because I feel hurt. This is probably the most hurt you have ever experienced (it was for me) and have you shown him how hurt you are? Or have you put up an angry front?

The anger will drive him away. The kind words and HONESTY will make him feel guilty. He will do what he wants right now, but the guilt will tear him apart someday (hopefully soon). Don't stoop to the 2 year old to get what you want. Be the adult...not the parent...not the child.

His flaunting in your face may be a way for him to get you to argue with him so he doesn't feel so guilty...so he can say "see, I have a right to have an OW because you yell". He can blame you for his actions. Don't let him make you the scapegoat. Be SUPER sweet so he can't blame you for his behavior any longer...

Thinking about you. It's not the end...my H is moving back in after a Plan B and things are better than ever. I have my loving H back. But it took a Plan B to get there, Plan A wasn't enough.

Still here,

Yes you are completely right..I am angry because I am soooo hurt. I have told him how I honestly feel and how hurt I am from this, but it doesnt seem to change a thing. I guess right now it wont. I have said some awful things to him the past couple of weeks and feel terrible about it. He gets angry at me but says he totally understands and deserves it. But that doesnt make it right.

Today I have been as sweet as possible and trying to make this home as comfortable as possible and a safe environment. My fear is that it is too late. Today while I was being as sweet as possible, WH was looking at me like I had 3 heads. He was also very agitated and arrogant toward me, but I let it roll right off my back. Do you think I should right a letter apologizing for my actions of late. Everytime I apologize to him about something related to his A, he tells me to stop, I need to apologize about nothing.

Also yesterday, my WH said to me after I caught them together, that he knows this wrong but cant change it. Am I right in the fact that it is time for Plan B when WH knows his actions are wrong but wont stop? He thinks we should seperate and I really dont want that, but it looks as though we will at the end of the summer. I guess I should just Plan A my A$$ off until he leaves, I still have about 6 weeks left. Or should I just ask him to leave now because I cant take the in your face anymore. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. I also decided today for now I am done crying in front of him and about him even though this is so hard being pregnant.

Lisa,

Yes, girl, you are getting it. No more Lbing. No more crying. And if I were you I would plan B the minute the step children leave.

However, Plan A your butt off until then. This is a good thing. I know it is hard at this time. Your hormones are wreaking havoc on your emotions because of the preganancy. WS looking at you like you have 3 heads is a good thing.

Crying, anger, venting at WS just pushes him closer to ow.

Oh, so he can't stop it? Can't help the situation with ow? Well, I have news for him. Only he can remove himeself. You cannot. You cannot make his decisions for him. However, this is HIS mess. He is the only one that can do something about this situation. This is all fogspeak. And if he says he can't help it or do anything about it, ask him, well, who can do something about it? You got yourself into it. You make your own decisions. Who else can do something about it?
Only your WS. Not you.

Move on. And maybe tell your 13 yo what is going on. My only concern is the stepkids and if your 13 yo will spill the beans. Can you take 2 more weeks? Until they go home to mom? The kids did not ask for any of this. I say plan A until they leave. Show your WS who you are, what is most important. Spouse and family. We will see where ow is on that one. And I think we all know the answer to where ow's priorities are.

Praying for you. You are getting it. You are doing so goooood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love and prayers Lisa,

Love in Christ,
Miss M

PS. Step back and don't react. Think of the most healthy reaction for you and family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well it has been 2 days without any LBing. Basically no A or R talk either. WH was home last night by 6:30pm a rare event. He seemed a little agitated. I really do feel as though he no longer knows how to be around his family.

Yesterday, the kids were in our pool all day and had fun. Today I took them all to a nearby lake for a few hours and now we are going swimming. I am taking care of everything on the home front and the kids. WH says he will be home by 5:30pm. Lets see. Last night I told him it was nice having him home early for a change. He kinda just looked at me.

I did write that letter apologizing to WH about my actions of late. He told me I was crazy, there was nothing I should be apologizing about. He also said, if anything I was under-reacting. WH tells me how confused he is about my reaction to this situation. He doesnt understand my passiveness. I guess I should have thrown him out on D-Day (2/14/03) then. Basically that is what he is saying to me. I will write later.

L

Okay it is so hard not to LB. Please keep encouraging me. WH was home again last night by 6:30pm. This is only because his kids are visiting for two weeks. Do you know how that makes me feel. I guess me and OUR children arent worth his time.

We go to MC today. Question for anyone. Last week our MC got pretty heated. I spoken my mind like I havent done in a while. I guess I am worried that it is considered LBing. Obviously the MC wants us to express these feelings. So I guess I must try to express these feelings as calm as possible. Any thoughts.

I am totally convinced WH is having great difficulty being around his children. He was home for about 10 minutes last night and seem to have no patience for these guys. He started yelling at them..I was getting dinner ready. The kids were just being kids. Then he said to me "I dont know how you do this.. I give you credit." Go figure..this comes from a man who tells me I have no identity and maybe I should get a job. Gee, I thought I had the hardest job in the world. I am sorry but right now taking care of these 5 kids is my identity. H is such an A$$ hole.

Well I guess we will see how MC goes today.

L

Hey LISA , I am happy to here that you are having a good time with the kids , swim relax , take it easy ..

HEY did you ever here the saying "KILL HIM WITH KINDNESS"" LOL

WELL girl , thats the ticket ,, bring that man to his knees , be sweet , be low tone in your voice , TALK TALK TALK ,, the weather , the kids , anything normal you can come up with ..

HE so wants you to , YELL !!! HE wants you to miss treat him , he wants it so he can make more sorry A$$ excuse for his actions ...

OH know you are so much better then that ,, YOU stick to your PLAN A and you do this till the end of summer and belive me when PLAN B rolls around (if that happens ) HE will be feelin the pain .

Him saying to you he doesn't understand you not throughing him out , well he was goating you again , he was waiting for your right I should you ^&%^%^ !!!!

JUST let him talk and you move the convo to something else ..

2 days down and I know you can do this ,, keep in a positive mind ,, try to fucuse on all the good things you have in your life and use that as your energy !

Check in later , hold strong , be determined , HE is your H and you are a family ,,,, right now WS is siick and needs treatment think of the FOG in that manner ..

OH and how far along are you in pregnacy ??

and how are the doctor appts. going ??

KEEP us updated on that to we all want to share in it with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />