Update us, Lor....I'm so sorry you're in this situation.<P>Did he continue on with his plans for Friday night after confessing the affair, and did his plans include her?<P>I'm hoping this weekend became a GOOD turning point for your relationship.<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

Thanks for your support. My H has had a pretty good thing going, he tells me he wants to make the marriage work, but he needs space, so I haven't pushed (much). He tells her he's getting a divorce, but it's really hard on the kids so he needs to spend a lot of time with his daughters, so she doesn't push.<P>I can't get a clear idea on how long he's been seeing her, he's admitted to phone calls back to mid-June, as far as I can tell she & her boyfriend broke up the first part of July. How much has my H been seeing her? Enough. I went through the need the details thing the first time, all I need this time is a rough outline and I already have what I need--at least for the moment. As he has said, he's been cheating, he's been lying. He couldn't tell me, he didn't want me to know.<P>I stayed low-key through all of this, I don't know if it was my decision to be nonreactive or if I've just been through too much crap.<P>He's still saying he wants to work on the marriage and he won't see her anymore. I said I will need confirmation of that, preferably that he make the phone call in front of me. We did the letter the last time and she immediately contacted him, she doesn't understand what "don't contact me" means. Anyway, he's relunctant, doesn't want to hurt her. I said somebody gets hurt, it's either her or me AND our daughters. (I also don't give a rat's petooty for her feelings) I also said that his not living at home has not been a search for space, he's just decreased his accountability to me and has time to date. If he truly wants the marriage, he will move home and we will begin to work on our major trust and honesty issues. However I will not "make" him move home since I don't want to keep going through his moving out.<P>He didn't make the phone call, he will more than likely see her at a funeral he's going to today.<P>It's so weird. He tells me "I won't see her anymore." And expects me to believe him because he has said it. He seems to have no idea that the effect of his lying for so long is that if he told me the sun rose this morning I'd have to check.<P>One good thing is my mind has cleared. I was beginning to feel so crazy from his lies and contradictions. There was always that feeling that maybe he does need space. Of course his depression is a factor, but one of the reasons he's depressed is guilt because he has behaved so badly.<P>This is a turning point. I don't know which way. If he doesn't move home, I think the resumption of the affair is enough for me to be able to move on if he doesn't get it together in a matter of days. I have a counseling appt. tomorrow, if he won't go, I think that may be information enough that he's not going to actually move forward. I don't deserve what he has done, even if he says it had nothing to do with me. (Don't you love THAT one.) On the other hand, if he wants to be married, I still believe we could have a great marriage, but no more "space". We spend our recreational time together, he's truthfully accountable for his time, we go to counseling. Until he left for work this morning we haven't been apart since 9 am Sat morning and he's spent hours and hours on the internet searching for the perfect Disney package for next month--meaning he's making a long range plan for us to do something together.<P>Thoughts/ideas are welcome.

Lor,<P>I am just so sorry you are going through all of this yet AGAIN! I really don't know what else constructive to say, except I'll keep praying for you and especially for HIM!

Lor -<BR>I am so sorry to hear all this. But it does feel good to know you aren't going crazy, doesn't it? It explains alot. <P>Lor, my H too planned our whole vacation (just the two of us) end of July. I don't know what drives them at this point - guilt, confusion? All I know is that when we returned, my H just focused on how "distant" we had been on vacation and how uncomfortable it was - and then within two weeks he had moved out. At that time, I said that if he was moving just to restart relationship with OW, I would move on. Then 3 days later he asked for divorce. I will never understand and I have stopped trying.<P>I don't say the above to scare you Lor, but seems that you already have drawn the line with your H and you have been very clear about what you need. Your guidelines are totally reasonable - stick with them. I really liked Lilly's approach when her H couldn't get it together - 6 months to cool off and then look into divorce. No need to rush into decisions, but no need to keep banging your head against the wall either. Take care of Lor!<P>Starpony

Dear Lor:<P>I am not giving up my prayers to Satan. He definitely wants this marriage destroyed. But God doesn't. I believe that firmly. You stay strong for you. Let God and Holy Spirit deal with him. Those blinders have pinholes - because he wouldn't be so confused otherwise. <P>Hang in there. I'm praying for you, and this hold Satan has on him is BROKEN in the name of Jesus. <P>Keeping using wisdom. <P>God Bless.

Lor<BR>The part about the lies is so true. I'm feeling exactly the same way. The only thing I have any proof of is the lies. So you start to wonder if anything is true. Guess that is natural.<BR>You have built so much strength from this. If you go back a couple of months and read your posts I think you would be amazed at how you have progressed. It makes me smile to hear you so much in control. Whether you realize it or not I can see it in your words!!!!<BR>Keep us updated because we worry if you don't check in!

Lor:<P>You are totally on top of this and don't really need advice. I think the clear plan you outlined is excellent. He needs to make the choice and show the commitment NOW. If not, you deserve much better than this. He's either serious or not. His actions during the next few days will tell you which it is.<P>

You guys are so good. I do feel clear and strong. For the first time I'm not scared of losing him. I truly believe my husband still dwells in this man--you're confirming that TNT. He is under horrible spiritual attack and has wallowed in it. If he chooses to continue to wallow, I can't watch, I'm certain of that. I just need to be sensitive to God's leading, I don't want to back myself into a corner. Actually, I feel like I'm out of the corner and the door is flung open.<P>For those of you that pray, please keep me & the H in yours.

So much to say, so little time...<P>Lor, do you think depression started, then he had affair, or he started the affair in weakness, then became depressed with the double life?<P>Also...your H seems to be able to give up OW, at least in theory, but not you. <P>He seems ashamed of OW, at least in theory, and sees family as where he wants to be.<P>On the other hand he seems to choose the path of least resistance and you have it pegged right...he has got something pretty good going.<P>More later...<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL, looking forward to your thoughts.<P>To answer you, I think the depression started first, pretty classic MidLife crisis. The book YOUR HUSBAND'S MIDLIFE CRISIS by Conway was one of the first books I found that gave me a sense of what was happening and how to cope. I highly recommend it and the other 2 in the trilogy MEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS and WOMEN IN MIDLIFE CRISIS. The principles are entirely compatible with Harley and there are chapters on infidelity and saving your marriage alone.<P>Back to how this has affected my H, his athletic body is slowing down, not all that pleased with his work. In fact, that spring I could tell he wasn't happy, but when I asked what was wrong, he always said "work", he never said anything about our relationship. At that time I was really busy with moving my store and also with the kids, was having some "female" trouble, had put on some weight, wore loose dresses & pants, he did ask me lots of times to add exercise to my day. I just didn't see where I had the time and I had absolutely no energy. I also have rheumatoid arthritis, so rest to combat fatigue is always something I have to pay attention to. Then his mom had a severe stroke and he was the one his dad counted on to explain things and help with decisions. He was acting very stressed. Then this pretty blonde from work prances up to him at a convention...I'm home being practical, saving on mileage of all things--the convention was only 50 miles from home, even if I had to work I could have joined him in the evenings. None of these things are a good reason for his affair, but are the way our life was at that time.<P>But now, the depression is worse because of guilt, failure and the fact that he truly does love me but that hasn't stopped him from pursuing her. I'm pretty sure he only thinks he pursued her the first time, I met her months before and could tell she was very interested in him. At that point he seemed oblivious. He did go after her this time, then when her relationship broke up...<P>He is ashamed of her. He didn't tell his counselor he's seeing her again either. Another counselor trying to help my H without the facts. (We did marriage counseling before his confession. It just doesn't work if one of you is lying.)<P>Anyway, I worked a short day today, H was here at lunch time. He says she wasn't at the funeral. Just had a thought, wonder what the sermon was? This was a 28 year old pilot who died...our time on earth is short, we don't know how short.<P>He says he's coming here right after work, we're taking a child to camp, then he's planning to stay here.<P>He hasn't made the decision to move home, so in a way I don't know if his staying these nights is the right thing, but it is what I want him to do. I've always hated the separation and it is much easier for me to keep centered when I can look at him whenever I want to.

Lor,<BR>Keep thinking and praying about you and H. I'm working, too, so thoughts come but I don't have a block of time to put them all down in a post.<P>Would it help if he called in front of you and you wrote a letter that he wrote "I have read this and this is all true" in his own handwriting on it?<P>It seems like OW may be misinformed and may be more likely to give him the heave-ho if a few details were cleared up. Since she broke up with her boyfriend (was it anything to do with your H?) she may be more inclined to pressure him if she knows the truth. And since H doesn't respond well to pressure, and seems to really want marriage, this could work in your favor. Plus if you look like bad guy, might alleviate H's fear of hurting poor dear bimbo tramp. I mean it could look like he is being valient one trying to give marriage a chance instead of dumping OW. (yes, I'm gagging as I'm posting)<P>Letter would be something like H has confessed to seeing her agian.<P>H still has never asked for divorce and wants to work on marriage.<P>If she persists in contacting him, she will be directly involved in breaking up a family that loves him and depends on him.<P>He was diagnosed as depressed and is now on meds. You have every intention of sticking by him for better and for worse.<P>And whatever else. As much as you would like to do otherwise, I would be civil in letter so she doesn't take this as a battle call. Of course if she does and pressures H to decide, I think he will choose you.<P>Of course I have always said this is best left to the Lord. It really is very complex. But if you spoke the truth, could this help? I don't know.<P>Still more later....<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

My H joined me at my counselor's. We mostly tried to mediate the situation since he & I are at loggerheads.<P>#1<BR>H:<BR>wants to work on marriage. Doesn't want to move home.<BR>Me: <BR>If he wants marriage, he needs to move home to do away with his nonaccountability and dating time.<BR>Discussion:<BR>He'll move home but not until next week. Me: that's just more limbo & dating time<BR>Counselor recommendation:<BR>Either H moves home and commits to marriage full steam ahead, and since that is what I want, only my H can decide this one. Or we divorce. Limbo is a proven failure for us. He outlines divorce as the more painful, troublesome, damaging, miserable course with our marriage having a possibility of God's unlimited blessings and abundant life.<BR>Resolution:<BR>He has moved home as of last Saturday (he's spent all those nights at the house at my request)<P>#2<BR>Me:<BR>affair must end, no future contact and I need direct confirmation.<BR>H:<BR>affair must end. He doesn't know when or how he will do so, he needs my patience. He does not want me to contact her.<BR>Discussion:<BR>I've been pretty dang patient and have already given him 3 days (not to mention the previous 1 1/2 yrs).<BR>Resolution:<BR>He will end affair/No resolution on confirmation. Since he is moving home, I will not contact her while he is living here. He moves out, I pursue divorce and I'm a loose cannon where contact with her is concerned. (This weekend I pointed out to my H that it is entirely possible he will lose us both. I didn't say: He can certainly try to do damage control with her, but I'm fairly certain I can plant some pretty large doubts.)<P>Me: <BR>I will be included in business & recreational functions where she might be.<BR>H:<BR>Nope.<BR>Discussion:<BR>This would be a big trust builder for me, very hard for him--also means he really has to end it with her.<BR>Resolution:<BR>We will negociate situation by situation, but I intend to go to the Xmas party. Also, if we are in the same vicinity, I will not initiate contact with her. No promises if she says one blessed WORD to me.<P>Counselor recommendation:<BR>H is accountable for his time & spends a lot of time with me through August, then I allow him times/space to build trust. <P>That's all the farther we got. We have an assignment to detail the needs we each have and negociate through them. Could be a good time to use the Harley needs questionaire, but my H hates questionaires, always has.<P>H is very shaky about his decisions. He really wanted to continue to say one thing "I want our marriage" and do another "won't move home, won't move home right away, won't make the call to end it with OW in (my) presence." He's done this for so long I feel it is just second nature to him. I would think he would feel some relief at actually doing what he says he will.<P>Counselor advised me to not get my hopes up. H will probably bolt by the weekend. I intend to continue with Plan A, patience & low expectations, but also to detail what some of my needs are.<P>Wish me luck and prayers.

Prayers? You got it. But would you also like a great big 2x4? I have a couple! <P>At least you guys are coming to some resolutions, AND he did show up for the counseling. It gets frustrating when they contradict themselves so badly, but hang in there. One positive is deep down he knows what he wants and that his place is with you. It's just all the clouds on top that are fogging his vision quite badly. (ya know, when it's THAT foggy, you should just quit driving! )<P>Does he not want you to have any part in things when he ends it? Does he not understand how important it is for you to see/hear him end things? And why is he so unwilling to budge as far as work/recreation things that OW is at? In my opinion, if he wants to prove his commitment to you, then he shouldn't be scared to have OW see you and him together.<P>I will keep on praying for the foggy headed H of yours, that he may someday see the sun. And I will keep praying for YOU too!<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

I'm really relieved my H joined me at the counselors. He was 7 minutes late and I was going into emotional slide...<P>Shoni, he doesn't want to prove a committment he doesn't feel he's ready to make. He does not understand the connection between wanting the marriage to work and marital commitment. It's the strangest thing, seems obvious to me. It's like he thinks it will suddenly be working without his commitment. God knows I've tried to make it happen that way.<P>I went to my rheumatologist today, my arthritis is a little worse, as for the last couple years I have been in remission with medication. She's asking me if I know of anything that could be contributing to the flare up. My answer of course is stress. I explain a little. She prescribed me some Paxil. I've been taking St. John's & Kava Kava off and on for almost a year, so I guess actual meds are probably a good step. And maybe the anti-anxiety factor in Paxil will help me with some of my behaviors that I know worsen my relationship with my H. Hey, at this point I've tried most everything...<BR>

Lor:<P>I think your counseling session went great. Your husband's reluctance on some key points is troubling, but at least he was able to understand your view point and reach agreement. Let's see whether he can live up to them or if he chooses to flee, as your counselor warned.<P>The need to choose, and your points about potentially losing both of you, are really critical. One of the conclusions I reached about my own situation is similar. My husband doesn't want to commit to the marriage, because that would mean giving up his other life. If the marriage doesn't work out, he's given up something valuable. But coming back to the marriage means he has to give up the other life FIRST. He has to HAVE FAITH that the marriage will work out and pay upfront.<P>The unwillingness to bet the farm (give up the other life first) causes indecision. But there's really no other way. As long as the affair is active, the decision making capability is severely impaired. The affair cannot exist concurrently with working on the marriage. <P>The irony is the indecision (i.e. desire to string along both) can cause him to lose everything. It's pretty clear that your lovebank right now is close to drained (mine too). Not much more tolerance for indecision left. I would also bet that losing you now will cause him great pain, NOT great relief (I'm not sure about this with my husband). I would also bet the the OW's respect level for him is pretty low. Would she really marry someone who can't make up his mind like this? What are the odds of someone choosing to marry someone that's depressed and guilty all the time? Not good, I would guess.<P>Too bad he's not rational or he would see all this. I pray for you Lor. I hope your husband has a really good friend who cares enough to spend the next week straightening him out.

Lor<BR>Looks like good progress with the councelor.<BR>It is good to have real guidelines.<BR>I think the step to real meds is a great thing. I was on St. John's Wort before the zoloft. Big difference. I would take the St. John's for maintenance but not for the big things.<BR>I think cl said the Kava Kava was okay with the prescription antidepressants but will have to check.<BR>

My doctor said kava kava & Valerian's root are both okay if I have trouble sleeping.<P>My H is home . He seems in a good mood. Wants some time to unwind. I'll stay here for now.

Lor,<P>I'm glad your counseling session went well. At least I think it did. <P>At least he' home. Mine is halfway out the door again. I truly belive OW is history, our problem now is him. He admits it is him not me. He does not feel affection for me. We had a long discussion last night which for him is a miracle. I think the only thing holding him here is the boys and he doesn't have an apartment to move into yet.<P>I'm praying that he changes his mind. I was a basket case all day yesterday, last night, and this morning. (Probably PMS contributing to such a melt down)My eyes are so swollen and hurt.<P>I am praying for you and follow your posts religiously. Hang in there. We can do it.

You must be emotionally exhausted today.<P>If he follows through, you made progress. It is so hard to see any of this from his perspective.<P>Still praying.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Lor,<P>The paxil will help. It helped me tremendously and I am not a big medication taker. It takes a couple weeks for the full effect but you'll notice a difference in a few days, I did.