Remarriage was allowed to the innocent party (Deut. 24:1-4)
It doesn't say that at all.

"1 "When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, 2 and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, 3 and the latter husband dislikes her and writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies, who took her to be his wife, 4 then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring guilt upon the land which the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance."

In this passage we also see that in God even allowed divorce if the guilty spouse had been involved in sexual unfaithfulness that fell short of the actual act of adultery itself.
Where did you get that?

The important note is that remarriage was allowed to the INNOCENT party.
Where does it say that?

Later on in I Cor. 7:15, 16 ... this divorce is allowed, remarriage is allowed to the innocent party...as it was allowed for sexual unfaithfulness.
I can't find that.

Wow, a real EN type brouhaha right here on the infidelity boards.

I'm not getting into the bible discussion. I'm not Christian. I'm Wiccan. A religion known for not having rules or making judgments. Having said that I have to say that my position (and this would be personal and not related to my religion since none of us can speak for another) is that it's not ok.

Married is married is married. Just like pregnant or dead you either are or your not. There isn't room for sort of anywhere in there.

And although I would agree that a spouse leaving, serving with papers, cheating, abusing or abandoning is a horrible thing to do to another person I can't see how that makes breaking one's own vows suddenly alright.

I was on the other side of the issue. I had the A. And when it was over I asked (read: forced) my x to move out. I was sure it was over and I started dating again even before I filed. At the time there was no one who could have convinced me that what I was doing was another A. Because I was the one who knew that I wanted out and that there was no hope.... there was no second guessing of the WS's motives or thoughts here.... I was the WS, and the marriage was over. Period.

But you know what? It was an A to start dating again. I was still married.

We talk a lot about how the WS is in a fog. And how that fog affects the ability to think clearly, rationally and to make intelligent decisions. What we don't talk about is that the BS is in a fog of their own. The pain and the horror they have to deal with makes making rational intelligent decisions just as difficult as it does for the WS.

I have many many betrayed husbands and wives write to and call me about a new "friend" they have made who is there to help them through the pain. It's part of our humanity to be pulled towards the comfort of an open heart and friendly voice, especially during our darkest hours. And I have to gently tell them that although it feels so safe and so good to follow those feelings it's not a whole lot different than what their partner did in the first place. Most come to see that they need to break off the friendship.

The WS uses neglect and loneliness in the marriage as an excuse for allowing themselves to slide into an affair. And we all know that there is no excuse. If there truly is no excuse, then the rationalization that one partner left for someone else doesn't hold water either.

25% of all filings for divorce are never finalized. The whole idea behind MB and Willard Harley's work is that marriages can be saved.... even when there is infidelity, even when one spouse files for divorce, even when it appears that all hope is lost... That's what MB is all about, making intellectual, ethical choices about our own behavior in the face of terrible odds. Doing the right thing when it is painful to do so.

At the same time, I cringe every time I see a WS or a former WS come here looking for input or help and they get beat up. (And yes Chris, I know you didn't mean this to bash anyone and I'm not suggesting you did or that you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Infidelity hurts everyone. Not just the BS. The affair partner gets hurt, the unfaithful spouse gets hurt, the kids get hurt, families and friends suffer.... more than anything what everyone in that situation needs is a respectful and firm helping hand to help them out of the mess their in. Courtesy and respect go a lot farther in persuading anyone to do anything than do anger and judgments.

C

I guess it is up to an individual to make their own decision. But it is not good to begin a new relationship when you have to deal with the loss of a marriage directly. A death of sorts has occurred. And good decision making is not present in one who is going through crisis and feelings that happen with divorce. And with children, you can multiply the adjustments by the number of children.

Divorce is not a time to rejoice and join the merry mix of dating teens. It is as though a spouse has died, and a bit of mourning and adjustment is needed.

Why do you hear of the stories of the client falling in love with the counselor? Because the client is vulnerable and not inclined to make good judgements.

OK, Chris, I am a veteran internet debater. I have my strong and weak points.
Debate is best done with facts.

I guarantee Kuljey saw the post title and knew it was inspired by her situation
Since she emailed you and told you this, please let her know I was not being mean-spirited nor making jabs at her.

One thing I do not like is the passive aggressive way of making a point
Me either, which is why I started a totally different thread based on a situation and not a person.

naive:

"Geez people, her husband is long gone. He wouldn't come home. They are legally seperated, they are legally divorcing"

Well, he's not been gone all that long (a few months at most). He may stay gone, though. I don't know. I do know what happened 2 another MBer that was in a similar si2ation. His W of 17 years or so ran off with some young guy living with his mom, and immediately filed for DV. Something like 3 months later, the DV is finalized, and the MBer starts a new R. He loves the new gal, who had a similar experience. They both have kids, and they want 2 get 2gether. a month or so after he gets serious, I get an email from him because his W got dumped, realizes she loves her X, he realizes he still loves her but he loves the new gal 2, and he asks ol' 2long what I think he should do... This could happen 2 kuljey. It might not, but it might.

"Why do we all go over to her house and berate her. It will have the same effect as what some of you are saying."

I agree with this ac2ally. That's why I said her si2ation is delicate. But we should send cyberhugs instead.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to differintiate actions. "

Good, because I'm a rocket scientist and I don't differentiate all that well most of the time!

-2long

Geez people, her husband is long gone. He wouldn't come home. They are legally seperated, they are legally divorcing

You don't KNOW this. To assume that you KNOW what is in the heart and mind of another person is disrespectful and generally wrong.

My divorce has been over for more than 4 years. Six since I moved out. I've been remarried for nearly three. I own a home and a business with my H. To look at me one would assume that I never entertain the thought of reconciliation. But you wouldn't KNOW that would you? You don't know the thoughts and feelings that go through my head in the early hours when I can't sleep or how I know what might have been different if only....?

None of us can presume to know what another is thinking or feeling, regardless of what is presented on the surface to the rest of the world. Or even to our most intimate friends and family. You cannot know.

And you certainly can't know when it is someone involved in an addiction, which is what an affair is.

I hear from WS's once in a while, not real regularly, but enough. And I have friends who have been the WS. I have yet to hear one say that they are glad they did what they did or that if they had it to do over again they wouldn't make another choice. Most say they wish the door was still open and that they could reconcile and make amends.... but on the surface you would never know.

C

To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven.

And taking time in doing what we do, whether it be something simple or more, we ought to think about it first. We ought to care about how our children feel. We ought to listen to others, and make a comfortable and well thought out decision.

We ought to not criticize each other but be concerned as to what our words actually do say to another.

And listen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
<strong>

committed

Please ...don't flame me here...I am all OUT of asbestos!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">heheehe, I just love her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[p.s. I know the feeling well!]

I SO wish I knew of this board 6 years ago. my x left me 3 weeks before Christmas(at his Mom's) with 2 little girls, he moved in with the ow within 4 months. I went on with my life
One year after he was gone I met a man that was a great friend (he wasn't around my girls for quite awhile). I filed for divorce when I got my taxes back but it was WRONG WRONG WRONG to start anything with him until the divorce was final. PERIOD

there is no sugar coating it. Yes my X was gone and living with the ow but bottom line I was married. My girls thought mommy and daddy were already divorced. Thank goodness for the first year in a half my x didn't bring the girls around the ow. So at least they did have sometime to heal.

Looking back I wish I had know what scripture says. Not only about divorce but that what I do in my life gets passed down to my children. Some call it sins of the father, karma, whatever. I did take sometime to be by myself and have friends and do thing with them but I should've taken longer.

I married that friend and we have a gorgeous son now but I wish I would've done it better (being divorced first). Sometimes I wonder in the back of my mind if my X would've actually ever filed for divorce and I wonder if we would've been back together.

I thought hey he's not here why should I sit and wait for him. I had friends try to hook me up with someone all the time and I would tell them to knock it off. When there is a divorce it takes so long to get over. I have moments where I still miss my X and then I feel guilty because of my husband now. I know I can't live my life on what ifs and could have but I really do wonder......

I would tell anyone DON'T DATE till your divorce is final.

Hey Chris, quite a party you've got here. When are you going to start the next thread? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, I've got my ice tea!

I think this may be one of those parties where the host got the ball rolling and left when nobody was watching him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>I think this may be one of those parties where the host got the ball rolling and left when nobody was watching him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as he left the chocolate and the drinks, we're set. I guess that leaves you in charge of the music. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:

As long as he left the chocolate and the drinks, we're set. I guess that leaves you in charge of the music. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's cool I beleive I can POJA my W to let me do that, as long as kily and imready2try don't want me to do a Chipendale number for the women(as much as I pride myself in being in great shape, I'm married man and a bashful one as well, isn't the right honey?)

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

There will be no Chippendale's dancing here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This is MarriageBUILDERS you know.

Sheesh!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have a great weekend. This is virtual Friday for us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> dustkitty, that is ridiculous and you know it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I was trying to be ridiculous...was the high point of my day...Sarcasm was a better outlet for me than a pack o' Marlboros.

Before I read all the posts I would have said that someone with a pending DV, by all means date. Good volley of ideas here.

How about a rule that we give our children...you may go out on group dates first, before single dates? Ok, that was silly too.

And if you really want satire of the whole cheating scene and you are very very mature...try Scarletta ...might be offensive to those that think Veggie Tales is the apex of humor. I was agast.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
There will be no Chippendale's dancing here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This is MarriageBUILDERS you know.

Sheesh!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I'm going to make your post part of my signature line. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

What? This IS marriage builders? Is it time for the music hour yet?

DustKitty are you in a foul mood, that Scarletta site is err nasty girl!

Some of us actually have to get up, go home and cook dinner for the kids (steak, bake potatoes and fresh corn on the cob tonight. YUM!)

We can’t drive & surf at the same time... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey Chris, there you are. We missed you. But I think we fizzled out your lovely thread. Dinner sounds great so what time do we eat?