Dear God,

It seems that madness is catching and in the air these days.

So much hurt and pain in so many different ways.

Peace, let there be peace. Dona nobis pacem.

Amen.

Thank you J - yes, it does seem to be a difficult time right now. It's so very sad - our friend has now flown home to be with his daughter. Who knows how you pick up the pieces of your life after that kind of thing? Thank you for praying for them.

This is a difficult post for me - I am just going to have to say it outright. My mother phoned me last night and its pretty certain she has breast cancer. I live in England and my mom is in LA, living with my sister, so this is hard. My mom will be 80 in February and I planned to go home to surprise her for her 80th birthday, but what will happen now? I am also angry - well, frustrated really - my mother is a procrastinator, and a conflict-avoider par excellence. She is into alternative medicine and although we are a "medical family", she pretty much takes care of herself, and doesn't go in for check-ups - consequently, she has had NO screening for anything, as far as I know - no cervical smears, no mammograms, etc - so what happened here is that she went to her doctor at her HMO last year and he wanted her to have a mammogram - she hesitated and said she wasn't sure she wanted one and he replied "Well, at your age, I guess it doesn't really matter". She was very offended and left without scheduling a mammogram and never went back - now a year later, she musters up the courage to go back and change doctors - now she's with a new doctor she likes and he has done all these tests (which came out fine) - but this new doctor INSISTED she have a mammogram, the results of which show a large mass which is almost certainly cancer. He wanted to operate immediately - like yesterday, but she refused and said she wanted a second opinion, so he is referring her to the Norris Cancer Center, and she has to call for an appointment tomorrow. What mom DIDN'T tell either my sister or me was that last year when she went to the other doctor, she went because she had found a small lump - so she left the doctor's office last year without having a mammogram, knowing she had a lump, and BTW, her sister already has had breast cancer. I'm really mad. My mother's self-effacing could now cost her her life. She also says that her back (lower back) is really bothering her (a lot of pain) which she has put down to arthiritis, and about two months ago she said she felt really sick to her stomach for no reason, so she has been drinking cherry juice for 2 months, thinking that would help "inflammation". Rrrrgh! She also said she didn't get a chance to tell the doctor about these other "symptoms" since he was so alarmed about the mass in her breast that he instantly referred her to a surgeon. I told her she HAS to have a full-body MRI scan and that on Monday, she needs to talk to the doctor about these other symptoms.

My mother lives with my sister, which is a great comfort to both of us - my sister and I - but my sister also depends on her a lot to help with the kids (her youngest of 3 is 8) - and I know that my sister's house payment depends on rent money that my mother gives to her - I warned my sister not to do this when she bought the house last year, but she went ahead and did it anyway. My mind, as usual, is reeling ahead with all the implications of what my mother's illness might hold in store for us all. I'm just....trying to figure it all out. I worry about my sister - I'm so far away, and my sister will have to cope with everything on her own, without me, although she does have my aunts and uncles nearby.

I asked my mother how she was feeling about all this and she said "I'm NOT worried! There are a lot of things I still haven't done yet - so I'm not planning on going anywhere!" My mother is a very serene person, in a lot of ways -so I am sure she probably is feeling pretty calm about it, and a positive attitude is what she needs right now - she is definitely not one given to dramatics. I just hope and pray that I am able to give her the kind of support she needs.

Me - I am trying to stay calm, but feeling sad, also - I am afraid that I am going to lose my mother. This last weekend, we took a few days family holiday - finally! - and we all had a good time - H really enjoyed himself, and it was what I had always wanted - to be together as a family, on holiday, just for a few days. But I was TERRIBLY depressed - I couldn't explain it - there didn't seem to be any reason for it - by rights, I should have been happy, but I wasn't - I had this overwhelming sense of hopelessness, and I kept thinking and thinking about my family, and my mother back home and I just longed so much to see them all again. I hid my feelings from my family and walked through our holiday excursions, doing everything and enjoying it on one level, but inside, I was really suffering - I really can't explain it. When I got home on Wednesday evening, I felt a little better, and Thursday I was able to call my mom to see how she was - she sounded fine and I told her how I had been feeling - she suggested maybe I am getting pre-menopausal, which is quite possible - since I have been home, those terrible feelings have gone - even now, I don't feel them, after what she told me yesterday - but I wonder - maybe I was picking up on something....

The kids are home for one more week before they have to go back to school - so I am going to be spending this week getting all their clothes ready - buying new ones, labelling everything, getting new shoes, getting their hair cut. I go back to work on 3 Sept. so I have 10 more days. The weather has been beautiful, and my garden is doing fine.

These last 2 years have been so difficult, I don't know how much more we can take. H's mum is also so ill - I haven't even talked about that - she is back home now with Dad, and he is struggling to cope, with home help coming in 3 times a day - H talks to him every night. She is slightly more mobile now in that she has taken to heaving herself out of her chair and shifting into the next one - trouble is Dad's back is bad, so he is unable to lift her when and if he needs to - since she has dementia, its rather unpredictable what she will decide to do - several times he has had to call for help to help lift her back into her chair, or into bed.

I think H and I are doing OK, but this is a lot to cope with. Last week, H got up in the morning and was standing in the kitchen, stirring his cup of tea - he said "I just don't know what to do", and suddenly started to cry. I put my arms around him and held him close for a long time. I said "I'm sorry it has to be this way" and later "The thing is, we don't get to choose". He was able to go on after a few minutes, and we carried on with breakfast. I felt that was good - I realized that he trusted me with his feelings. But the next day he was really difficult, which really upset me. How could he be crying one day and letting me into his space and mean to me the next day? That drove me back into myself and despair.

I also haven't posted that last week one of my oldest friends called - he's married, with 3 little boys - I've known him since I was 20 - he's just found out he had a large tumour on his kidney (which has now been removed) but he started five weeks of radiation therapy this week - so I have been in daily e-mail contact with him and his wife - his prospects are very good - they think they got it all, but he needs to go through the radiation therapy anyway. He isn't feeling very well right now, but is positive. He is one of my oldest friends and is like a brother to me.

I guess with all this happening, getting back into our normal routine has helped. Life is just tough sometimes. There are a lot worse things that could happen, so I am still thanking God for his many blessings. But if anyone reads this, please pray for my mother. She is really the kindest, sweetest person in the world and I don't know what I will do without her.

LIR

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 05:33 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Hi LIR,

You should pride yourself on your level of sensitivity and warmth as a person. It shines right through your words. I can actually feel your pain as you describe it and I'm sorry for you.

Not only do you have to deal with your mother's illness but also the distance...you can't reach out and touch or see as readily.

I will include your mother in our prayers!

Hugs

Thank you so much, terri - you are so kind. I'm home with the boys today - H is working and won't be home until 8:30 pm, but some friends I haven't seen in a long time - really GOOD friends - just called - they are in town for a couple of days and want to come over and see me and the boys, so they will be here in half and hour - what a nice surprise!

I have just been spending the day starting to get all their school clothes ready for next week - they both wear uniforms, and my oldest is in boarding school (in the same town), so I have to get his full complement of clothes ready - 6 shirts, 3 trousers, 3 sweaters, all his sports kit for soccer (which he loves) - he goes back to his boarding house a week from today, so I will spend this week shopping for shoes and sewing name tags on everything. Takes my mind of worrying - thank God for our kids!

God bless,
LIR

My dear dear dear LIR

Boy oh boy, it never rains but it pours doesn't it?

I have just been wondering about you and thinking I must mail you. I have been at my Mum's the last few days. She had an op for her varicose veins, but is doing really well.

I really don't know what to say to you. With so much on your plate right now it must be hugely difficult to even think about sorting the woods from the trees.

I only want to drop by and let you know I am thinking of you - as you know I'm not religious, but I know you will find comfort from prayer and the bible during this difficult time.

I'll mail you later.

Lisa

I feel as though I've said what I can, but I'll say it again. Dear God, grant us peace through our pain.

I was reading The Prophet last night while standing in the book store. I love the book tremendously, and just opened to random pages. The one on Friendship was the thing that I opened to first. And then the one on Love. They're good things to read, though sometimes hard.

The one that I love best is about Children. I can't quote it, but I was just thinking this morning about the part that goes, "Remember that if God loves the arrow that flies, so too does he love the bow that is still."

Our parents are the bow from which all our arrows fly. We are the bows from which all our children fly. Love flies both ways. And another bit from The Prophet: God isn't in my heart. I am in God's heart.

Thank you so much for the words of support - LIL and J - it does help to know others are sending good thoughts our way.

I have to stay off the line because I'm waiting for my dad to call, but just wanted to say thank you for the prayers and thoughts.

LIL - I'll get back to you soon - I'm glad you got some time away - I'd feel the same about the ring - how awful!

J - its funny you mention the Prophet, as its one of my mother's favourite books. She has always said "I always said to myself that my job was to raise you so that someday you wouldn't need me anymore". She has taught me so much already - its from her that I learned compassion, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, sensitivity, patience (not sure I have learned this yet, but she has tried to teach me) by her living example. So much...

I am trying to be positive though - my aunt and uncle both survived cancer against the odds, so I am trying not to leap to any conclusions.

Thanks again to everyone - I do appreciate it so much.

LIR

LIR,

With all that you have been through, with your doubts about your H, with what you lived through with your father and mother. With mother having cancer, and a host of other things, what is it that you are most afraid of?

Why are you afraid?

SS

I'm up early - I was hoping you would stop by, ss -

Well - my mother is my friend - I can always talk to my mother about my feelings - in a way that I can't with anyone else - I know that this is purely selfish, but I am afraid of facing life without her - I don't know how I will cope without her - she is always on the other end of the phone. She is just a HUGE support for me. Of course, I know that everyone has to face this at some time, and I have tried to look at it reasonably, knowing my parents are both nearly 80, preparing myself.

I talked to both my dad and my sister last night - we all feel the same - frustrated that she didn't tell us - but united in our resolve to maintain her positive attitude, and to help her face what is to come - my dad says not to leap to any conclusions before the results of the tests come in, but he laid it all straight for me - he's a doctor and a very good one - there is no doubt that her tumour is a malignancy, and the size of it is extremely serious, but with surgery, chemo, and radiation, she may well beat it - given her age, if she does beat it for now, she may live long enough to die of something else. (Dad doesn't beat around the bush, which is a great relief - I like to know what I'm dealing with). My Dad has taken the lead here in telling my sister and I how to help my mother through this - so now we know what our job is - keeping her positive, and coaxing her around to facing what's to come.

I feel a little better - thank you all for being here for me. It really helps.

LIR

LIR..

Grace to you and yours...
in all aspects...
ARK

Thank you so much ark - it means a lot to have people check up on me -

Just a quickie to say thank you for all the prayers and good thoughts from all my MB friends.

Things move very quickly - I spent a couple of hours yesterday back and forth between my mom and dad on the phone - between the first call to my mom at noon her time, and the second one a couple of hours later, she had done a 180 and faced up to the reality of what is happening to her - we are all just praying it hasn't metastisized - she said she just wants to go ahead and have the full mastectomy ASAP - she will probably have it done by a surgeon who works with the City of Hope. Her primary care physician called her yesterday and worked her gently around to that option and to seeing how necessary it is to move fast on this.

My dad is being great - he said to me that he was there for her night and day whenever she needed him, whatever she needed - I relayed this to her and she started to cry - I encouraged her to call him and she did - so she is getting all the support we can all give her. Its hard to convey the depth of emotion this means because this is a "triangle" between my mom, dad and the OP which has been going on for most of my lifetime, and yet, we are all united in what we have to do for my mom (including my stepmother - I give her a lot of credit for her growth these past few years).

Let's just pray that she gets surgery ASAP and that the cancer hasn't gone any further - we are all afraid that it has, as she is having a lot of back pain.

Thank you all so much for your prayers and support. It is good to know you are there.

God bless,
LIR

Hello LIR,
I am glad that there is help, and hope.

I tend to save up my thoughts and do big posts, but right now you just need to know that others care and are thinking about, and praying for you and your family (Your mother included.) We are - on both counts.

There is still a lot I want to say, please don't think I don't care. I do read your posts, I think about you, and I pray for you. I talk to my W about you. The feeling comes to me quite often (and very strongly) that I will meet you someday.

Sometimes I may give up to much time to places that I don't need to. It's hard sometimes to know when to say no to things I am asked to do. Sometimes I have no time left for things I want to do, like post on MB.

I had a dream I want to run past you (about me this time.)

Shoot, I can't close this thing, I want to keep talking.

Lisa, I have a short one for you too, I really do.

SS

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hello LIR,
I have a hard time with greetings, and closings. Sometimes "hello" seems to convey so little as a salutation.

How about :
HELLO !!!

It's been a long time since I did a proper post on this thread, I just read over the whole
thing again, and it brings so much to my mind. I always wonder how you are, I hope for positive, and worry about the negative.

I did not realize how much you speak with your Mother. You may have mentioned it but for some reason I did not realize the extent of it. What a blessing for you up until now, and yes - I see why you are afraid. I would say she is probably your best friend in the world right now. It's hard to replace a person like that, and sometimes you can't do it.

The trust between my W and I has returned - much of it over the last 8 months. I would have to say that we are best friends - and as trust and love return, we find we spend time together by default. We can't stand to be apart. I think about what that would take for you to trust your H like that again. I know that it can happen, I believe you have a very good chance, but I wish for you to last until that takes place.

Let's see, I have a dream for you to comment on.

This was only a few days ago. I (dreamed) I was entered into a bike race. The race started and I rode into the first turn and realized that i didn't know the route, I didn't know if I was supposed to turn at the first street, or the next one. No one else seemed to be there when I was, so I rode ahead to the next street and turned. I could see no one watching, no one coming up behind me. I went on down the street until I got to a familiar part of town and found my W along the street waiting for me and I told her that I couldn't find the route and that I was lost. She looked at me as if to offer to help me and i asked her where the route was, and requested she show it to me. I also recalled that a map of the course had been handed out before the race and I asked her for one of the maps.

She replied that she didn't know the course, and she didn't have a map for me. I began to get angry, I just about asked her why in the world she didn't have a map for me !!. At that point I woke up ( 4:30 Am) and began to think about the dream. On one level, this is what both you and my W have been coping with all your married lives. Your H and I have been very much alike in that respect - correct?

I thought about it for a long time. What right did I have to be angry with her? (easy to see now, but only a few years ago, I would not have seen it) Why did I expect her to have a map when I had attended the pre race meeting and had not bothered to get one. I should have ridden the course before the race to become familiar with it, but I had not. All the problems were of my own making, but I wanted to blame someone else for them so I could avoid all blame myself. The person I attempted to blame, was the one I should protect above anyone else on the earth..

On another level, I will be solely responsible for obtaining the map of where I am attempting to go, and no one can get it for me or can be blamed for my failure to get and follow that map. What a sobering dream. I related it to my W when she woke, and I repeated my goal of taking responsibility for my own mistakes. She didn't have much to say about it other than to agree with me that it was a good reminder for me.

I think I repeat this because you struggle with what my wife struggled with. You know very well the feelings she coped with for so long. I hope you find relief. I think if I had that dream, your H could also, and I hope he learns the same lessons. It will be nice if he learns them now while he can choose and the good choice will count for something.

You have never said how the family vacation went, or if it went at all. I wonder if he helps you as he should when you are away from home. I hope he does.

I feel like talking a little about death. I know your fear for your mother. I realize that is mostly because of the support she has been to you.
I don't know if you fear death itself, but I recall your fears when you were ill, and your fears for your nephew (did I get that right?) joining the service.

I have heard death described as opening a door and walking into another room. I visited an old neighbor last year (We lived across the street from him, and he lives in the same home still.) He is in his 80's now, and is getting frail. I asked him why he seemed so happy. He related the following experience to me.

I had gone to the temple ( Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints) and was sitting on an aisle seat. I was sitting in front and waiting for others to fill the room in the seats behind me. I felt an hand on my arm and looked down but I couldn't see anything there. I heard LaVon's voice ( his brother that passed away a few years before) say "Paul, you just keep doing the things you are doing, and you will be all right." I felt the hand leave my arm, and he was gone. It made me feel good to know that he could visit me and pass on that message.

LIR, I don't know exactly what you believe - BUT - If God is our Father, if he has our welfare in mind, he will not leave you alone if your mother goes home. She will be in a far better place than we are, and I won't grieve for her.
I will morn your loss, but I will pray that you will have the help you need, and I will have faith that you will get it when you need it.

I believe that you will see your mother again when your own turn comes, and that your meeting with her will be very sweet for both of you. Perhaps that's when I will greet you and shake your hand also.

So many things to say, so little time.

You take care of you - you haven't used up all your allotted happiness yet, expect more to be along at any time.

SS

HELLO!

How's that? Yeah, I know - these greetings all kind of fall flat sometimes - but that's cyberspace for you - I appreciate your post, ss - I wish I had time to respond - I just checked in for a few minutes - probably won't have any time until Monday - or maybe Sunday night.

Good dream - would like to comment - I am just so glad your lightbulbs are all on upstairs because you seem to know exactly what it means. Wish my H would start dreaming.

I could say a lot, but I am dog-tired. I have to get OS stuff all ready for going back to school on Sunday eve - like usual, I am doing the mad scramble at the last minute.

My mom goes for her second opinion in about half-hour realtime - she is still in denial - still saying "When they do the biopsy, if they find out its benign, they will just close me up again" - its not benign. We all know that. Not much else to say - just have to wait for her to get it and then take it from there. To tell you the truth, I'm not feeling much of anything any more - just feel like my job is to prepare myself to do what has to be done - right now that means get my house in order so I can leave here when and if I have to go home at short notice.

Well - I will be back - just thanks for sharing that with me - I'm glad you did - I think your wife is a wise and loving woman. How lucky you are to have each other, and to share a strong faith - you will make it through, with each other's help and God's blessing.

All the best,
LIR

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

I imagine things are busy. I can see you right now......you are talking on the phone to someone in California. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tell us how your mum is doing. I don't know which spelling to use now. Mum, Mom, probably by now it is Mum to you. I sincerely hope things improve for her - for both of you. I want to encourage you, but sometimes it is hard to ask, because things don't always improve with operations.

With the problems your H's parents are having, and now your parents, your stress is probably increasing. I have seen this hurt marriages, and I have seen it help them. It can draw you closer together if you go to each other for help and comfort. Men especially seem to react with anger and they often become distant. You can bring him back by meeting his important needs, but it's hard when you don't feel like doing it because of his actions.
If he does seem angry and distant, I bet it is because of what is happening, and not because of his feelings about you. (I don't know him well, but I do know how I get sometimes.) If this happens, try to forgive him, and I know that is hard because of all that has happened the last couple of years. I still wish he would apologize and open up to you more.

He may be able to help you more if you simply ask him to. Explain that this is hard for you and you could use domestic help, emotional support, conversation, and most of all kindness.

"Honey, this is hard for both of us, and you can really help me by being kind to me. Talk tenderly to me, not harshly, tell me you love me more often. Help me around the house a little more. I think if we make a special effort to help each other right now, it will really help us with our feelings of love for each other.

You know, something along those lines.
(I don't know why I even tell you, I think you have passed me up now.)

I have seen your help to others on MB, and I say you do a really good job. Don't be afraid to say things, your advice is well thought out, and very helpful. I am especially impressed with the way you word things so as to get your point across but not offend. I think you must practice on your H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wishing you well.

SS

Hi there, ss - always so good to know you are out there.

I am doing OK - I have been off the computer for awhile - too much going on, but I have a couple of days here at work alone, so I am able to do a couple of posts.

I am OK - my mom (I call her "my mum" to my English friends, but she is Mom in my heart) has her mastectomy scheduled for the 22nd - 11 days time. She is doing OK - being very positive - she told me the other day, in a happy kind of voice, that she can FEEL all the prayers - she said she was depressed before, but not now, she can't believe how good she feels, like she is buoyed up by something. We got the results of her biopsy yesterday, and that's not good either - it is "invasive ductile carcinoma", which means it is the kind that invades the ducts, which have blood vessels running close to the interface of the ducts, so it is easily carried through the bloodstream, if it gets out. Since she has left it so long (it is now 5cm and star-shaped), there's a chance it has already spread - we won't know until they do the mastectomy, because during that procedure, they inject a dye into the lesion and wait, watching to see how far the lymph travels via the lymph nodes. In any case, she will need chemotherapy, but she is saying she is not sure she wants to go through that.

To me, this is a lot like the way she never wanted a mammogram. I am trying to figure out a way to say - "why not go through the few months of pain for the chemo? If you don't, its almost certain you will die of bone cancer, brain cancer, liver cancer or stomach cancer - none of which will be any less painful than the chemo, and could be far more miserable!" But I'm not going to put it quite like that. I have had friends die of bone cancer, liver cancer, and stomach cancer - I am sure most people reading will understand what I mean.

As to H - he seems to be doing OK - I have been careful to still "be there" for him with regards to his mum, asking after her, listening to him (he is talking to me a lot about his calls with his Dad and what is going on there), being supportive of him. Even my mom, when she called last night and got H on the phone, asked after his mum - I think he appreciated that.

I have had a cold the last few days and felt really miserable yesterday - I still had to work, because my boss is away at a conference. I asked H if he could pick me up from work so I wouldn't have to walk home. He said he couldn't because he had a lesson to teach then, but he called later and said he had rearranged his lesson time so he could come get me, which I really appreciated. I also asked him last night if he could cook dinner for me, because I felt so bad, and he did, very cheerfully. He can be a really nice guy - it's nice to see this side of him again.

I still feel anxious about the trust thing, though - I am afraid to bring up anything about the past, for fear of ruining the present good state of affairs. The fact remains though that we haven't talked about anything that has happened, and he retains his private e-mail account, although he no longer guards his phone. I fear he will get close to OW3, even though his physical contact with her is sporadic - they could still be e-mailing each other a lot without my knowledge.

Two things happened - first, this Sunday he played a recital at his church, and I and YS went - I thought he knew I was coming, but apparently he had just assumed I wouldn't, even though I made the effort to come to the last one. He seemed delighted that I wanted to come, anyway - it turned out to be a good day - I approached everything in a light-hearted way and ended up being asked over to lunch by some parishoners I didn't know - really nice people - while H got on with the job he had to do (fix the organ). At the recital, OW3 came, and when he saw her afterwards and greeted her in front of me, they kissed each other hello. It was funny, there was some awkward hesitation as to whether they would kiss each other on the cheek (traditional here - Continental influence, you know), or on the mouth, and it ended up on the mouth - a little peck. They both seemed happy to see each other, but I didn't detect anything other than friendship, I was included in the conversation. After everything we have been through, I am just suspicious - especially after the comments I saw from "buddy" on his e-mail account - i.e. "watch yourself very carefully my friend and don't get any further involved, or it could be the nail in the coffin for your marriage". I just wonder how personal this friendship really is, and should I ask him, try to talk to him about it, ask for reassurance, ask him to explain. I am afraid he will explode again like he did before.

Also, in contrast to the other times when he was emotionally infatuated with OW1 and OW2, he is kind and loving to me - and still talking to me about his life. When we drove home, he wanted my input at length about the performance - I feel he values me again, where before, he had written me off.

The second thing that happened was that on Tuesday AM, he had to play for the funeral of a friend of a friend. This was a special funeral - the youngest brother (19 years old) of OW1's boyfriend. Sorry, the relationships can be convoluted here. OW1 was daughter of H's best friend. And OW1 long-term boyfriend is son of her father's other best friend - two big families closely linked. Youngest son was killed 10 days ago in a car accident - car rolled over, he wasn't wearing a seat belt and was thrown out of the car - everyone else walked away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ALWAYS WEAR A SEAT BELT - how many times do you say this to your kids? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So anyway, it was in a place too far to drive to on Tues AM, so he and OW1's father drove up together and spent the night somewhere nearby. I was a little anxious about this - I didn't know if they would stay the night with OW1 and her BF - not that I think anything would happen between OW1 and H again, but I just don't want him to have any contact with her, if poss. I knew they would see each other at the house and at the funeral, but that couldn't be avoided - there would be crowds of people around them, and anyway, members of her family (her aunt, her dad and her sister) knew about her friendship with H, so I wasn't worried that they would "re-ignite". Especially not at such a time. Maybe I'm naiive, though.

Anyway, H said he didn't know where they would spend the night - that was being taken care of by best friend, he didn't have anything to say about it. Finally I quipped - "maybe you'll stay with OW1 and her BF?" The fact that I even mentioned it telegraphed to him that I still am nervous about them. He didn't get mad, but I think he was surprised and re-iterated that he didn't know where it would be, but he didn't think so. The next day, he told me all about the funeral (wanted to talk about it), and told me they stayed with other friends of best friend. So he obviously remembered that I had anxiety about that and made sure he told me they stayed somewhere else.

I was also a little upset that I couldn't go to the funeral - I felt like it would look like he cared, but I couldn't be bothered to go. I said I wanted to send them a card, and he made sure that we got a card and signed it from both of us. When he came back, he encouraged me to write to the mum and dad, if I wanted to. To be totally honest, I would have felt uncomfortable if I had gone, being around OW1 and all her family - even though I'm not the one who did anything wrong, I'm still the one who pointed the finger at her and accused her of having an inappropriate friendship with my H, which her father felt compelled to deal with, so yes, I would feel uncomfortable being around her. But I did want the parents of the boy to know I cared, that it wasn't just my H who cared.

I think my H handled this as best he could.

So it looks like we are hanging together. The other day, I put my arms around him in the kitchen and said "At least we still have each other", referring to the hard times we are going through with our parents. He hugged me back and said "yes, we do, that's true".

I am still "processing" a lot what we have been through, but I am eternally grateful to the souls here on MB who helped me get through that horrible time - I don't post much - I think carefully before I say anything, because I don't want to flame people - I DO have a lot of anger, and there are some WS threads I stay away from because I can't handle reading what I see. I found Mortarman's thread really helpful last week - when he talks about his session with SH and how Steve said that you have to work on building RESPECT for each other again - that is step one - trust, spontenaiety, love, romance, all that comes after the respect for each other is rebuilt. I feel that is where we are right now - trying to rebuild respect. I am working at earning my H's respect, because I am sure I did things that caused him to lose respect for me. And what I need in order to be able to fully love and trust my H again, is to be able to respect him, so I am paying attention to what he does, too. It's a slow process.

Well - medals to all who wade through this post - all the best to you, I will be here lurking even if I don't post often.

God bless,
LIR

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

(((((LIR))))) I made it through the post so a medal for me!!! I got your e-mail and then read this message which filled in some of the spaces. I'll respond to you directly, but just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you and your family at this difficult time.

Lisa

HI LIR
Medal for ma as well. So sorry to hear about the hard time you having over your mom's health but so glad things are oming together for you and your H. I understand your inseurity over the OW1 etc but at least your H also seemed to understand and try to callm your fears. These are big steps after the way things were in the past.
Hope things are better than they seem for your mom when she has the masectomy.

Jante

Hi LIR,
I was going to go home, but a couple of friends seem to be calling to me tonight, so here goes.

Also, in contrast to the other times when he was emotionally infatuated with OW1 and OW2, he is kind and loving to me - and still talking to me about his life. When we drove home, he wanted my input at length about the performance - I feel he values me again, where before, he had written me off.

You would have a much better feel for how much he values you, and how close he feels to you now, but it sounds really good to me. What I want to know is how close you feel to him. Tell the truth, I know you understand what I mean.

The second thing that happened was that on Tuesday AM, he had to play for the funeral of a friend of a friend........... This was a special funeral - the youngest brother (19 years old) of OW1's boyfriend. Sorry, the relationships can be convoluted here. ..............The next day, he told me all about the funeral (wanted to talk about it), and told me they stayed with other friends of best friend. So he obviously remembered that I had anxiety about that and made sure he told me they stayed somewhere else.

It looks like it worked out OK. It almost sounds like he is ashamed of what happened with that one. ( the A, not the funeral arangments.) It must be very helpful to you that he remembered and told you where he stayed.

I was also a little upset that I couldn't go to the funeral - I felt like it would look like he cared, but I couldn't be bothered to go. I said I wanted to send them a card, and he made sure that we got a card and signed it from both of us. When he came back, he encouraged me to write to the mum and dad, if I wanted to. To be totally honest, I would have felt uncomfortable if I had gone, being around OW1 and all her family - even though I'm not the one who did anything wrong, I'm still the one who pointed the finger at her and accused her of having an inappropriate friendship with my H, which her father felt compelled to deal with, so yes, I would feel uncomfortable being around her. But I did want the parents of the boy to know I cared, that it wasn't just my H who cared.
LIR, anyone who knows you will know you care. I cannot imagine anyone would think bad of you for not attending. I don't know how to get this across the right way.....
Just reading your concern for their feelings, wanting them to know that you care. I was about to say don't worry about that quite so much, but that's how I know who you are, because of how you worry about other peoples feelings. Can I just say that it will be OK - and you did it just right? I believe you did.

I think my H handled this as best he could.

You made me smile, looks like both of you do well.

So it looks like we are hanging together. The other day, I put my arms around him in the kitchen and said "At least we still have each other", referring to the hard times we are going through with our parents. He hugged me back and said "yes, we do, that's true".

That's touching. Are you seeing what you want, and need to see?

I am still "processing" a lot what we have been through, but I am eternally grateful to the souls here on MB who helped me get through that horrible time - I don't post much - I think carefully before I say anything, because I don't want to flame people - I DO have a lot of anger, and there are some WS threads I stay away from because I can't handle reading what I see.

I don't mean to drag you back before your time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but can you tell me about that anger?
I know where it comes from.
Knowing you - at least a little bit, I expected it to be mostly gone by now. Why do you think that anger is still inside you? You know that releasing it has nothing to do with what H does or says, and that it depends on you? Are you making progress?

I found Mortarman's thread really helpful last week - when he talks about his session with SH and how Steve said that you have to work on building RESPECT for each other again - that is step one - trust, spontenaiety, love, romance, all that comes after the respect for each other is rebuilt. I feel that is where we are right now - trying to rebuild respect.

I think that is right for everyone that seeks to recover. It is for my W and I.
It is hard to regain the respect when there are continued triggers. Is that what is happening with the anger?

I am working at earning my H's respect, because I am sure I did things that caused him to lose respect for me. And what I need in order to be able to fully love and trust my H again, is to be able to respect him, so I am paying attention to what he does, too. It's a slow process.

Slow? So you think the rest of us do it by magic? I think it's called "real life." Ok, I am teasing (and please forgive me) but you have been here long enough to know that's the way it is. I am glad you are IN the process.

Well - medals to all who wade through this post - all the best to you, I will be here lurking even if I don't post often.

My only complaint is that it ends so quickly. Ah well, I know you don't have much time.

Really, I enjoy reading your posts. Thank you.

SS

Hi LIR,

Sometimes I wonder if I ought to let your thread recede into the background. I could have started a new one to ask this, but I dug this one up.

Did you get what you wanted from the thread about blowups?

Let's see, that's not what I was going to ask.

By now, your mother should have gone through with her operation. I am wondering how she is? I am wondering how you are? I worry what the news will be for her long term health, and how you will deal with it. Not that I think you will fall apart, but I know it will hurt, and I care.

Please let us know.

SS