In the last few days I've noticed the old familiar ultimatum 'I told my spouse that if s/he ever cheated on me that I would divorce him/her on the spot' resurfaced on a couple of newbie threads. Since this ultimatum very seldom achieves its intended purpose of preventing the warned spouse from having an affair, could it possibly be setting up an emotionally unsafe environment for the future WS and make him/her more likely to stay in an affair longer that s/he would have if the ultimatum had not been issued? My beleif says 'yes it's true' but I would like to get your opinions on the subject.

You pose a very interesting hypothesis here TMCM!

I do think it's possible that the issuing of such a statement may in part cause a WS keep their affair secret longer, even if it's over, for fear of an ensuing departure (divorce) by the BS.

However, some of us have said similar things, and then down the road, found ourselves in affairs. I think it's just something that gets said by a great many people to indicate that they really would be hurt if their spouse were to betray them. I always told my H that if he cheated on me, first I'd tell his mom, then I'd tell his grandmother, then we'd start the divorce proceedings. Funny what we say when we can't see into the future isn't it?

I'm curious to see what others think about the question you pose TMCM!

Jen

Thanks for replying Jen, I also beleive that even if the ultimatum is never issued, the implied consequence of its violation (divorce) will still be in the mind of the future WS and still have the same effect as though the ultimatum had been issued.

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

TMCM, I'm not sure about the connection between voicing that common ultimatium and the length of an A, but I can say that in our case my H told me on D-day that once the A went physical he was absolutely convinced that I would divorce him as soon as I knew about it. So for him to continue the PA was just a progression of - "Oh hell, my M is over anyway". Who knows how long it would have went on if the OW had not just been visiting relatives in our town for only a month. But H did end the A before the end of her stay, so I think he would have not extended it had she been a local. The stress & guilt was really getting to him.

I was one of those naive BS's that always proclaimed that I would divorce H immediately if he cheated. On D-day, as all the details were being revealed, I can honestly say that divorcing H was the furthest thing from my mind. I actually did NOT want that. Didn't really think about DV seriously until we were dealing with the fallout for a few weeks/months. But it was not an "on the spot" reaction as I would have predicted for myself if you had asked me any time before D-day.

You really cannot predict how you will react in any given situation until you have to face it. I found out that I didn't know myself as well as I had previously thought. I am very thankful that I did not have a knee-jerk reaction to DV or just DV quickly to save face - our M was defintely one of the "salvageable" ones.

Shelle

You are right ShelleBelle66 that we can't predict how we will react when faced with what we BS thought as the unthinkable, BUT if we start creating an emotionally unsafe environment from the get go where honesty is going to be penalized then why are we surprised when we find out that our WS's not only didn't confess to their affair but continued because they thought along the same lines as your WH?

TMCM, I don't know if I would call it "creating an unsafe emotional environment" by us making our boundries & consequences clear with our S's. I think couples do this routinely on many martial issues.

Just for the record, I was NOT one of those that was paranoid of H having an A - you know those types that say it so often that the S ends up saying to themselves, "oh well, if they think I already am... I might as well do it" when faced with the actual opportunity. I can't remember ever really coming out & saying it directly to H, it was more like an unwritten rule based on comments when A's were seen on TV or such.

My viewpoint on A's was pretty clear, but H never really had a strong opinion of them, so deep down maybe I am not suprised he had one. The weird thing is that he had a very religious upbringing and has always claimed to be a conservative, whereas I have no religion and am pretty liberal, but yet an A just doesn't appeal to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I do think H would have never mentioned the A had the OW not called our home to bust him after he broke it off. For my H, I think his keeping it a secret would have been motivated not by a fear of DV, but rather a desire not to hurt me and his deep disappointment in himself for allowing it to happen.

Shelle

I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to tell our spouses that if they ever had an affair that we would not necessarily end the marriage BUT that it would be a definite positive in our decision to continue the marriage if they did make the choice to come forth and confessed the truth to us. Maybe I'm off my rocker, what do you think?

TMCM, that sounds about right to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting12:
<strong>TMCM, that sounds about right to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That I'm off my rocker? I beleive most people here would agree with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Since this ultimatum very seldom achieves its intended purpose of preventing the warned spouse from having an affair, could it possibly be setting up an emotionally unsafe environment for the future WS .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM, I am not sure in what context these statements were made, but I think people make those ultimatims for different reasons. Some do it as a threat, others do it as promise. I do it as a promise, not a threat. I don't say it to try and manipulate my spouse into staying faithful to me. I say it as a promise that will be carried out. His fidelity is an expectation that I have, and not one that I think I should have to make threats to expect. It is simply a condition that he has to meet in order to stay married to me.

And I want and expect my spouse to be in an emotionally unsafe environment if he commits adultery. Because he would be in a VERY UNSAFE environment if he did. He would be kicked out.

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

TMCM, ideally, yes it would come across better & safer if worded differently. Now that we have been on this journey thru the pain, we know that. But - when faced with stories & images in the media for example, when we think there is no threat to our own marriages, who worries about safety in the wording?

I would think that most people watching any story involving infidelity, such as: Lorena & John Bobbitt, Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky, or the Clara Harris trial, would off-handedly make pretty strong comments to the effect that they would divorce their spouses immediately for the same behavior.

I know for me personally that I would never have taken a "soft" stance on this issue. It's just not me. My H knew that due to historical comments I had made regarding infidelity that he would be facing divorce and he was willing to take that chance. It was not a definite - he knew deep-down that I might forgive him and we might stay together - the odds just were not as good.

Very thought-provoking.

Shelle

ML I understand your point, especially since another affair would be too much to ask to endure for the sake of the marriage.

It doesn't matter if the ultimatum is given as a promise or a threat which even if it's carried out, its message to the WS is that confessing the affair is not going to help anything and therefore might as well continue with it. The old damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Shelle I beleive that we try to control that which we fear, and what's more fearful for a spouse than to think about his/her spouse having an affair? And so we issue the ol' ultimatum with the beleif that it's going to prevent an affair, when it might actually agravate it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>ML I understand your point, especially since another affair would be too much to ask to endure for the sake of the marriage.

It doesn't matter if the ultimatum is given as a promise or a threat which even if it's carried out, its message to the WS is that confessing the affair is not going to help anything and therefore might as well continue with it. The old damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM, He didn't confess his first affair, I had to dig it out. I think very few WS confess until they are presented with evidence. So I wouldn't expect anything different in a 2nd occurrance.

Rather than being damned if you do and damned if you don't, he is damned if he has an affair, no matter what.

The only reason I took him back this time was because he convinced me this was an aberration of behavior. I only knew that I could not love someone for whom I felt no respect. He proved to me that it was an aberration of character and he restored my respect for him. I can't love someone I don't respect and I was utterly disgusted back then.

NOW, if he had another affair, I would know it was not an aberration of behavior, but a way of life and would have no interest in him.

FFFFFFOOOOOOOGGGG talk! You underestimate the density of fog!

My H knew that fidelity was a #1 issue with me, and I'd always had a problem with his sexually inviting behavior. When the H happened, he was surprised at how much I was affected, and couldn't "remember" me saying anything on the topic!

---

<small>[ July 13, 2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

TMCM, I never issued such an ultimatim before his affair. But no, I sort of doubt it. I think secrecy goes hand in hand with the affair. I think it's unrealistic to believe that an adulterous spouse will bust themselves under any circumstances, ultimatim or not.

TMCM? Did you have too much coffee, man?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it's unrealistic to believe that an adulterous spouse will bust themselves under any circumstances, ultimatim or not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know about that ML, there are, afteall, different kinds of WS, just like there are different kinds of sinners.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
TMCM? Did you have too much coffee, man?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you silly woman, otherwise I wouldn't be worthy of the name TOOMuchCoffeeMan, wouldn't I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />