I don't know. I started to answer that with all that I hoped she had learned but I really don't know.

It is very hard for us to talk as she is NEVER alone. During the times when he is at work and she could talk she is babysitting and must fear what they pass on. So it takes a long time to get a sentence in here and there when they are out of range.

Hurting,

Man, this is every man's dream. I know I have felt that sort of dream. Rescue the Damsel in distress, dispatch the bad guy. It sounds great. I think you should do it. Your kids won't mind if they are orphaned. Heck, your SIL won't mind losing a child or two. I KNOW you are bullet proof or think you are, but buddy YOU ARE ONE MAJOR FOOL.

Your W's safety is one phone call away. All she has to do is call the police now, and have them escourt her from the premises or him from the primises. If she decides she wants to try and work it out with you, she can move her sorry *** back to your house and try and make amends for what she did.

Just because you have taken a life once, does not mean that you will succeed this time or that your children would survive. But, mostly it means they could be orphaned or worse yet, just you killed and your W will raise YOUR children with this guy's help.

You have no evidence that she is really rational about this situation. You do have evidence that she will go back to him again, and I would believe the data UNTIL SHE PROVES to you that she won't.

I know you have posted that this guy is one messed up Dude, but so is your W and you have no evidence that if you show up to rescue her, that she won't turn on you.

I know what you are thinking, and I know that I would have absolutely taking someone out that attacked me or my family, the difference is that my family would want me to protect them, and my family is with me. Your W is not with you, she does not necessarily want to be with you, and she may or may not be lying to you about what is going on. What would happen if you took this guy out, and you have been set up by W. You would be in jail, your W has the kids, and their lives are a huge mess, not to mention yours.

Hurting, I have been trained in using weapons, and how to kill people with knives, guns what have you. I grew up with people that were all trained to kill: military. One thing my father and his friends made darned sure us kids did learn and it was reemphasized in my training. You don't go looking for trouble, you simply handle it if it shows up on your door step. Even a highly unskilled individual can get lucky and take you out, and a skilled individual is even more dangerous. So it is prudent to limit your exposure to this kind of stuff to only those NECESSARY situations.

This is not a NECESSARY situation. It is a situation that your W is telling you about, and assumimg that she is not lying, exaggerating, or simply setting you up, she can get out of it by calling the cops and leaving. She won't do that. Your SIL can do the same thing.

Take care of your family: that would be your children. Your W is NOT your family, you are only legally related and she CHOOSE to go live with this man.

Step back Hurtin, and calm down. This reallly not your fight, and she has even said if you came to her rescue, killed this guy, and risked your life or jail time, she is NOT sure she wants you in her life. HELLO!!! This is NOT a person worth jail time or dying for.

Please think about this, and then have her call the police.

God Bless,

JL

Hurting, I agree with JL. Do not put your life on the line to "save" this woman from herself and the position she has chosen to be in. As my Mama used to say, "you make your bed-then you have to sleep in it". She should not be able to do whatever she wants and then run to you for protection. Let HER call the police and take care of the situation herself, same for SIL.

And...DO NOT provide her a place to stay! Show her you are done unless she shows major signs of common sense. And don't be fooled by crocodile tears.

I know I've never been this harsh to you before but I've always seen that you do love this woman. I'm one that thinks if there is a chance, give things some time and see what happens. But nothing has happened except she's moved back in with OM and has gotten into trouble and calling you for help. Nothing has changed!

I commend you for defending innocents. Your wife is not an innocent. She is in a situation she chose for herself.

JMHO {{{Hugs to you and kids}}}

I'm paying attention to what you all are saying.
Just trying to think how I can turn this to my advantage in getting her ready to work on M.

Hurting, don't try to figure out how to turn it to your advantage. Manipulation of this situation will do you no good at all. Simply stay strong and make clear that 911 is really easy to dial.

If your wife wants to leave, and your SIL too, that's great. They can leave and go to an UNDISCLOSED location. Why come to the place OM would immediately look?? That's just more drama for everyone.

Instead of drama, let's look at the ugly truth here. Someone's gonna end up in jail or worse if they keep this up. WHY would you want to play that game? Don't do it. Be clean, be clear, be honest, be upright.

You are obviously concerned for their safety, and you can certainly offer to support them when they contact the police or something like that. Being the "hero," though? Errr, no. Leave that to peopel who get paid to do it, and then thank them profusely.

Sorry all. I have been extremely tired when I was posing this question and when I answered Pep's questions. I just reread all of that and realized I hadn't made some things clear.

1. My kids would not even be in the same state until OM had left.

2. She may want protction but thats not what I'm prepared to give. I will show up while he is at work get all her stuff and take it and her to an undisclosed location.

3. They are not living with SIL but in a house across the street that SIL owns.

4. SIL will be informed of he threats and can deal with it as she sees fit. She as a husband and a phone so is capable of dealing with what comes her way.

5. OM will come home to find WS gone and a note letting him know that the police will be notified of the threats as well as the fact that he has an outstanding warrant for grand theft at noon the next day. (Hence more incentive to go back to his home state) I just found out about the warrent and don't want to risk bail. Would rather use it to push him to leave.

6. If he doesn't leave or get arrested and sent back then WW would have to move.

7. The only time I will be in danger is if he should come back after we were sure he is gone and that is always a possibility no matter where we are unless we moved to where we know nobody.

8. Kids would be further still from it as it would be at least a month after we were sure he is gone before I would allow them to come to town. I would also have to see her truly working on the marriage or kids and I would live in seperate house and go back to plan B.

Hope this eases some of those fears that I just totaly lost my mind.

PS I'm so tired due to heavy workload and recreation with kids. I sleep fine and haven't been depressed in a [censored] age (lol).

The question was really meant to be something like...Should I do a sorta plan A as he will be out of the scene and I really didn't get the time to do a proper one in the first place. Remember she moved out about a month after D day and about a month later left the state.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

I think everyone gave up on me and quit reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This is a marriage building site.

I will be 100% supportive when it comes time to rebuild your marriage.

Right now, sadly, all I see is drama and more drama. No real effort to build a healthy relationship on her part.

"What has she learned?" ..... what?

If you rescue her with guns a'blazing and get her away from the evil moron OM .... she is still not a suitable person to recover a decent marriage with .... or maybe she is, but not from anything you've said so far.

Marriage recovery is NOT what you're dealing with right now ... is it?

Pep

Pepper,
What if I convince her to call the cops and get him out without my help? Then would it make sense to take this chance to work on the M. She is willing right now to make some effort and we are growing farther apart as time passes. Shouldn't I take this chance that may be the last before no recovery is possible?

Moving to the same state was something I had planned on doing next summer anyhow so that the kids would have move time with her.

I seriously doubt you have enough information about her state of mind right now to make an informed decision.

You need some serious heart-to-heart talks with her. Then you can determine her level of commitment to you and the family.

Right now she seems to be in an escape mode, and maybe that will begin the rebuilding recovery phase, but how would I know?

You know her best. use your experience.
Pep

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting12:
She is willing right now to make some effort </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what effort has she commited herself to?

Pep

No a lot.

No contact with OM. Verifiable by my presence 24/7. And access to caller ID on all phones se has access to after I start work.

I can live in the same house but not in same bedroom.

I can be with her as much as I want. Both at home and at her work.

She will try to recover her love for me. (We haven't disscussed specifics here except for MC ,which I knew she wouldn't want to do)

Has she made any comments that would lead you to believe she has some level of insight as to ~why~ she did this stupid thing with this scary man? Does she struggle to understand the deeper meaning of her behavior?

Pep

Not realy. I did ask her why she had gone back after the restraint when she tried to leave last time.

She thouht he was only that way because he was drunk at the time. He convinced her he wouldn't drink anymore.

And he hasn't drank or used since she went back. The threats and pushing have occured anywats and she now knows it won't end wether he is sober or not.

At least she now has the sense to know it will get worse wether he relapses or not and wants out.

So her insights are about "him" and his behavior... and not about herself .... and her choices. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Some people choose danger. Repeatedly. There is something exciting about the risk of relationships that are on the edge.

Some people cannot be self-loving long enough to choose stability for themselves. They choose instability and risk.

Some people become uneasy when face to face with real love, love that doesn't threaten or abuse. Real love challenges their self-perception that they are not good enough. Risky love affirms their unlovability.

I don't know if sounds is anything like your W. But, in my work, I talk to many people who struggle with repeating poor choice patterns.

It is never their fault, in their view. It is the other persons' faults that ruin everything. Their personal choices are never examined.

Just rambling......

Pep


'

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Are you prepared to go through...and can you go through again with what happened the last time you rescued her? Seems like she's asking a whole lot of a man she's not interested in staying with except when she's having trouble with scummy OM.

Where will the kids be while your with her 24/7? She will "try" to recover her love for you - What if she decides after you rescue her, that Oops! sorry it just can't be done. How will you feel?

I really, really don't want to be negative, hurting. But it just doesn't sound like such a good deal yet. JMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don't think that is the case here. I know all her old boyfriends (pre-marriage,including my brother)and none were abusive. She gave this one 1 chance to prove it was a one-time alcohol thing and wants out because it wasn't.

She admits she doen't love me at this point but is willing to try for several reasons.
Kids
I deserve a chance
I'm the best person for her to fall in love with ,if she can.

Sooooooo my thoughts were to move in and go to what amounts to a plan A for 6 months. This long because she will have some time in withdrawal.

If she is not very active in not only trying to recove her love for me but fixing all aspects of the M including meeting my EN then to go ahead and file for D and move on.

I plan no second B because at that point it will have been 13 months since Dday and with everything thats gone on enough is enough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TooOld4This:
<strong> Are you prepared to go through...and can you go through again with what happened the last time you rescued her? Seems like she's asking a whole lot of a man she's not interested in staying with except when she's having trouble with scummy OM.

I think I can. Remember I waited so long to go to B that I have very little love left. This is mostly because mentaly I know we can fix this and it would be best for the kids if we do. She really can't hurt me much right now. And until she meets some of my needs she won't be able to hurt me ,just make me mad if she doesn't try.

Where will the kids be while your with her 24/7? She will "try" to recover her love for you - What if she decides after you rescue her, that Oops! sorry it just can't be done. How will you feel?

She works from 8am until 9pm at 2 jobs where thekids and I are welcome at all times.(Babysitting and a vidio store with a viewing room like a living room and no adult movies on site) Some would be spent with kids and I and some alone time with just us. Same for offwork hours, some with kids some without.

I really, really don't want to be negative, hurting. But it just doesn't sound like such a good deal yet. JMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No prob I'm looking for opinions

Hurting12, you don't seem to be listening to any of us when we say that this is drama, drama, drama.

So, let me as you this. What's it going to take for you to NOT rescue your wife, and NOT let her return to live with you, until you really think through what YOU need for the recovery to make sense? Forget the gunslinging stuff, we're all convinced you can do that.

Having won the war, though, can you win the peace? Think about Iraq. If they'd planned the peace a little better, a whole lot of lives on both sides would've been saved.

So plan the peace. What are you going to do afterwards, and what's it going to take? Where are you going?

You don't necessarily need to know that when your wife leaves OM's house. You DO need to know it before she comes home to live with you.

And given the awfulness of the situation, I think there's a whole lot of cooling-off time that's gonna have to happen. For you and your wife.

So..... Get your head on straight, man! Call up Cerri (Penny Tupy at www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com) and talk to her. She's really, really good with recovery planning, and you need that much more than you need rescue planning.

There is not going to be any gunslinging. We were able to talk for about an hour a few minutes ago and I think I have her convinced to call the cops. She told me that if she does she still wants me to come up there and work on the M.

I'm beginning to think she is and may have from the beginning been willing to call them but was kinda looking for an excuse to let me back in her life. She did/does know that it would be >90% chance that I would rescue her if need be. Hence her asking me to help when she is capable of doing it on her own.

When she was here she needed my help to leave him. This time she doesn't. She has a place to stay and makes more than enough money to live on.

I still don't see why I can't go and work on the M if she calls them and has him removed from the house.

I have been thinking of giving Cerri a call. I used SH in the past but being female may help WW agree to talk with Cerri. She has always hated all counselers and that will be the hardest thing to get her to do.