MM: check out my question to you on your thread. It's about to slide off the front page.

Mortarman,

Yes, much of what you say is true. I know that. But I have to make a couple of points. Number 1: I would never, could never, will never, come between my H and his employer. To do so would accomplish nothing other than to jeopardize his career and risk his future. I have no desire to hurt my H. He is the man I love. My goal is not to hurt his career, but merely to save my marriage. Such letters will never be written.

Number 2: while the Harley principles are very black and white in terms of what you MUST do, there must be some understanding and leeway in terms of human nature. Each of us is an individual that God has created and we all react totally differently to different situations and stimuli. I am not the type of person who would ever write the letters of exposure that Harley says to write. In fact, during our counseling with Jennifer it was never an expectation nor a demand. Yet the folks here are insistent on my writing these letters and I simply will not do it. Period. Similarly, my H may react differently to different counseling approaches.

Further, I know my H well enough, for over 20 years, that regardless of an OW in his life, my taking an approach such as involving his company in personal matters would never - never, be forgiven. Even in sane times.

I have exposed the A to a fairly large number of people, including his family...3 brothers and 3 sisters-in-law. That is as far as I will take it, other than telling friends I choose to tell.

Now, MM, let me tell you about yesterday in a little more detail. My scheduled day was to spend the entire day training a new person in my company. I traveled to the office where she worked, spent the entire mornig with her, only to discover that she was an extremely quick study and needed no more than 1/2 day to train. I am left with a half day. I am halfway between my corporate office and the branch office where I have been training. It's 1pm and I see no reason to travel an hour and a half back to corporate.

Earlier my H had emailed me, extremely upset about the posts he had read from me.

All morning I prayed during every spare moment for God to give me direction. Then, I find out that my training is needing half the time I allocated. I leave the branch office, and begin traveling back to my home - midway between where I am training and my corporate headquarters. Now, I know that H is there, because he has a home office there. I continue my prayers. I pray for the words...the approach I need...do I really want this M or is DV the best approach.

MM, I have to believe that the hand of God is at work. God provided me that half day to meet with my H and re-connect, even if it might not fit in the MB philosophy. Perhaps it just fits in God's philosophy.

I have asked and I have to believe that I have received a response.

Mimi, you also said to give it up to God. I believe I have. Only time will tell.

My H is starting IC this Wednesday. I am finding one for myself. I need more advice, so I can choose the path for me.

Love you guys. Thank you for being there.

Good for you IS, go with your heart, don't lose yourself, but do what's right for you...I cannot disagree with you on the letters, that is something that may seem right to some people (and may have worked) but I would consider it an LB more than anything, something done to get revenge. Your H's employer does not need to know about something that is his personal issue, let's hope the IC gets things started..

hang in there... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: zacharysmom ]</small>

ISG,

I want to make it clear on a few things, because you might be thinking that I am saying something I am not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Number 1: I would never, could never, will never, come between my H and his employer. To do so would accomplish nothing other than to jeopardize his career and risk his future. I have no desire to hurt my H. He is the man I love. My goal is not to hurt his career, but merely to save my marriage. Such letters will never be written.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And they probably shuldnt. I didnt call my wife's work, or write letters to them either. My whole point in what I said was that there is nothing illegal about telling the truth, to whomever you tell it. Now, do I agree with you on not telling his work? Yes, I do...for the reasons you outlined above. So, I am in agreement with you about not telling his work. Do I think his family, and the OW's should know? Of course I do. That is not out of bounds. There is the support group that many times, helps the WS andthe OP see that what that what they are doing is wrong. Some times families enable the affair. But most often, the stigma attached with being immoral is enough to blow a lot of the fog away and let the WS see reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Number 2: while the Harley principles are very black and white in terms of what you MUST do, there must be some understanding and leeway in terms of human nature.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont find them black and white at all. As a matter of fact, talking to Jennifer and Steve, one will find that they tailor the plan a lot of times to the individuals involved and the situation that has happened. But, the basics of the MB principles DOES take in account human nature. That is why it works. There is nothing new under the sun. Satan uses the same tired old ways to tempt us and lead us into sin. He doesnt have to work hard. Mankind falls for the same stuff every generation. Thus, our spouses falling into sin is as predictable as it is simple. And, the way out of that sin is as predictable as it is simple (notice I didnt say "easy"). The Harley principles take into account human nature, and the addictive nature of an affair. Just like an addict with cocaine, there are certain tried and true methods that work towards getting that person to stop using drugs. Same goes with the addiction of the OP. There are tried and true methods that will bring a person to relinquishing their sinful behavior and recognize reality again. Those methods are Plan A and Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Each of us is an individual that God has created and we all react totally differently to different situations and stimuli.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, this is sort of true. Look, when we touch a hot stove, we all react differently. Some may scream. Some may cuss. Some may not say anything at all. That is all different. But one reaction IS the same...we pull our hand back from the flame. So, while there are differences in degree on how we react, there are basic similarities. Same goes with marriages and affairs. If we dont fill the love bank, if we LB and if someone else starts filling our love bank, we are ripe for an affair. Some handle this situation differently. Some sneak around on the side. Some just move out and want a divorce. There are different reactions. But the part that is the same is that the WS leaves the relationship and takes up an improper and immoral relationship with another person.

Now, how to stop the addiction. Well, some come home upon the discovery of the BS. Some come home after a good Plan A. Most that do come home will do so after discovery, Plan A and Plan B. Some never come home. Each is different. But there is a basic tenet here. Without discovery, without the WS getting needs met or the expectation of getting needs met by the BS, and without being left alone to their consequences, the odds of a WS coming home on their own is astronomically small. Sure, it can happen, and does in some very rare cases. But for a BS to count on that is like a person counting on winning the lottery next month so they can pay their bills. Could happen...but not likely.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not the type of person who would ever write the letters of exposure that Harley says to write. In fact, during our counseling with Jennifer it was never an expectation nor a demand. Yet the folks here are insistent on my writing these letters and I simply will not do it. Period. Similarly, my H may react differently to different counseling approaches.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All true. Exposure can be tailored to the individual. But the basic premise of the fact that affairs thrive in secrecy cannot be ignored. It is a basic tenet.

And on counselign approaches, the one thing I would add is this. Most counselors want to start in fixing the problems that led to the affair. And their success rate in patching up marriages isnt very high. The Harleys' approach is to re-establish love first, so that the love bank can take the inevitable hits that it will get when sorting through these bad things. And their success rate is very high. Now, does Steve or Jennifer counsel each person exactly the same? Of course not. As you say, they are individuals. But the basic tenets they use (protection, meet ENs, POJA, and honesty) are used EVERY time. This is why their system works. So, while your husband would need different counseling techniques as compared with my wife, the 4 basics I outlined above would have to be met.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Further, I know my H well enough, for over 20 years, that regardless of an OW in his life, my taking an approach such as involving his company in personal matters would never - never, be forgiven. Even in sane times.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly why you shouldnt send a letter to his company. I dotn think the Harleys ever espoused sending it to the company. Just relatives of the WS and the OP.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have exposed the A to a fairly large number of people, including his family...3 brothers and 3 sisters-in-law. That is as far as I will take it, other than telling friends I choose to tell.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good. That is what you should have done.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, MM, let me tell you about yesterday in a little more detail. My scheduled day was to spend the entire day training a new person in my company. I traveled to the office where she worked, spent the entire mornig with her, only to discover that she was an extremely quick study and needed no more than 1/2 day to train. I am left with a half day. I am halfway between my corporate office and the branch office where I have been training. It's 1pm and I see no reason to travel an hour and a half back to corporate.

Earlier my H had emailed me, extremely upset about the posts he had read from me.

All morning I prayed during every spare moment for God to give me direction. Then, I find out that my training is needing half the time I allocated. I leave the branch office, and begin traveling back to my home - midway between where I am training and my corporate headquarters. Now, I know that H is there, because he has a home office there. I continue my prayers. I pray for the words...the approach I need...do I really want this M or is DV the best approach.

MM, I have to believe that the hand of God is at work. God provided me that half day to meet with my H and re-connect, even if it might not fit in the MB philosophy. Perhaps it just fits in God's philosophy.

I have asked and I have to believe that I have received a response.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ISG, this is where you should be...in God's hands. Is it possible that God will work a miracle and touch your WH's forhead and he be healed of his addiction to the OW? Sure. I dont discount that. But that doesnt fly in the face of what normally happens. Jesus healed many people miraculously. But most peopel are healed via doctors. Is God at work in both? Yes.

You have received a response. I think having that half day was probably God sent for your husband. He needed that time with you in order to understand where things are at, and feel that you still love him. I will not discount that (because if you go back to my thread this past January, a similar thing happened during my Plan B...my wife came over and wanted to talk and we did so for 4 hours...but once she left, since she still had OM in her life, it was back to Plan B). But if the OW is not gone and he is still seeing her, still carrying on his immoral behavior, then it is back to Plan B for you. He has now seen that you are still there...that he still loves you. But ISG...he is an addict. And just like with addicts, you must administer tough love. It is not loving to stroke an addicts hair and tell them "I'm here for you" as they continue their addictive behavior. That is NOT love...and God bares that out in Scripture. Ther are whole chapters of how to deal with a Christian who is in rebellion. And enabling is not one of them.

Christ showed sinners love. But he didnt allow them to remain in sin. He told them to go and sin no more. Did your husband wlak away from your talk and tell OW to get lost? Or is he still seeing her, still committing adultery? If it is the second, then guess what ISG? NOTHING has changed. He is still in rebellion to God. He is still betraying you. He might have got angry about your "threat" to expose his affair at work, but what about your righteous anger? Notice I didnt say anger.

Until your husband is out of the affair, then all of the counseling in the world, and all of the talks in the world will not help. He is an addict! He must come clean before he can have his life improved. He cant improve his life, and then come clean.

Right now, there is only ONE issue in your marriage...the OW! Until she is gone, the other issues are irrelevent. I believe that your talk with him did some good. It put that seed back into his brain that there is a life back home. It is a quick glimpse out of the fog. But that is as far as it goes. Go read Mimi's thread and NowWhat's thread, where I go into the transition period...where you WILL need to help him. But now is not the time. Unless he is sitting at your house asking you to help him draw up a NC letter, then NOTHING has changed!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mimi, you also said to give it up to God. I believe I have. Only time will tell.

My H is starting IC this Wednesday. I am finding one for myself. I need more advice, so I can choose the path for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too often, we shop around trying to find something that will work right away. I know I did the same thing. But as a Christian woman, I know you believe that God's ways are ALWAYS right. Well, go to the Scripture and read what God says about husbands and wives, about marriage, abotu sin, and about dealing with a wayward Christian. His ways are ALWAYS right! And after all of my research, and failures, I have found that no other approach out there so closely matches what God has provided to us in Scripture as the Harleys.

Too often, I have met people on here that went out to try another approach, only to come back weeks later crying...wanting to start Plan A and Plan B all over because the NEW way failed.

ISG, you have been given soem great advice here and some great tools. Yo uare listening for God, and what He wants to do. You are ready! Your interaction with your husband was probably needed (as it was with the latest interaction with Now What's WW). But what to do now? Well, exactly as Now What is doing. After almost the same interaction you had with your husband, Now What asked his wife if she was still seeing the OM. She said yes, that she was still not sure what to do...but that she loved NW and needed him. Well ,Now What told her that he loved her too, but could not help her until the OM is gone. she was angry to be sure. She wanted her cake.

But go read his WW's response to a friends during that. The friend talked about how his WW was missing him and that she was beginning to see that he did love her. And she was seeing that through tough love...through Plan B!

We are still here for you. And yoru husband talking to you is a direct result of your prayers and your following the plan. If you abandon it now, right on the edge of success, you may find that you have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I pray that isnt true. But odds are...

In His arms.

Isgirl,

Please don't feel that just because you are not in complete compliance of some of the stategies that have been suggested....that you have lost anyone's respect...or that you have lost your support system....I swear you have not. Be assured that no matter how you proceed, that others care about you and will watch your back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We haven't given up on you....and hope you won't give up on us either.

(((((((((((((((issy)))))))))))))))))

star*fish,

Thank you. That means a lot. Yes, my first inclination was to run away. People were expecting things of me that I wouldn't and couldn't do. I want to continue to believe in MB, but when folks were trying to force my hand and make me do things against my moral character, I started to wonder if this was the place I should really be.

You know what has happened from the above posts. You know about our meeting on Thursday, and how upset he was, threatening to file for DV...mainly because he incorrectly assumed I was going to contact his employer and inform them of the A. You know that we talked that out and he realized I would never do that. Started out horribly painful, but ended up OK.

He than contacted me Friday by email, just sending along a silly thing about dogs that he knew I would enjoy. I DID respond, telling him that even though the day before had been difficult, that it was wonderful seeing him and that my first glance at his face reminded me of how much I have loved him for over 20 years...and still do. I asked him not to forget that.

I know that many of you are saying that WH's seeking counseling will do no good because the OW is still in the picture. I think he is seeking IC in order to HELP him...he is struggling with feelings, trying to determine what makes him happy. Claims to now know any of this. Doesn't even know what it is about OW that makes him happy. So I think he is seeking answers to himself. Perhaps with those answers he will be better armed to give up the A. All I know is that he is not ready now. Remember also that he is bringing Cerri's list of what to look for in a counselor with him.

Mortarman, thanks to you (as always) for your insightful perspectives. You always have a way of expressing things that is extremely helpful.

Now, star and Mortarman here is my question: I know that I should be back in Plan B. However, I asked H to let me know how his counseling sessions goes on Wednesday. May I still get that information from him? And THEN reintroduce Plan B after he lets me know how it went? Telling him that I am encouraged that he is doing that, hope it gives him the guidance he needs to get his life where he wants it to be, reinforcing my love, etc.?

Yeah, I'm still here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm glad you decided to stay. I win the PLAN B FAILURE AWARD so I can relate to your lapses. I've decided we are human and are doing the best we can under horrendous circumstances. This is such a nightmare.

Take Care.

Mimi,

Thanks. I just read about the Condo visit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Amen, chica. We are only human. Sometimes the amateur psychologists here can get a little much, but what it boils down to is human beings, like you say, doing what we can to survive a nightmare.

I am continuing to watch over you. Good luck. I hope everyone is on target with the fact that you are C-L-O-S-E!

ISG

Issy,

Didn't pick this up until really late. I'll reply in the morning.....but you hang in there. Glad you're still here.

ISG,

Glad you are still here! I wanted to answer your question, but first make a short comment.

While I have said that no amount of IC/MC will help until OW, is gone, I want to define that. As an example, let me show you something my wife said. You see, last summer, in the heart of the A, I had contacted Steve Harley. I even got my wife to talk with him, to counsel with him. She even read SAA. Now, as Steve said, my wife after reading these things and hearing him tell her about the A and about her marriage, that my wife was still unable to do the right thing. So the IC failed, right? Well, it dependson how you define failure

If the IC was supposed to lead to the removal of the OM, then yes...it failed! The A went on for another 7 months. But, as my wife stated recently, it was many of the things she read in SAA and heard from Steve (especially when he told her that she would soon see the "reality" of the OM) that ate at her...that reinforced what she really knew inside.

That last sentence I stated is KEY! IC reinforced what she already knew inside. You see, deep down under the Fog and addiction, the WS knows what the OP is, and knows what their spouse is. They KNOW about marriage and such. But the fog obscures that reality.

Well, while in the fog, little rays of reality shine in from time to time. With my wife, it was the things she read and heard from Steve. It was these little "nuggets" that helped reinforce her decision to come home later on.

So, the IC will help only if it provides light for your WH. If it doesnt try to make him comfortable, but instead it illuminates things in the darkness. And then later, it is those facts that will help your WH build his bridge out of the fog.

Now your question...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, star and Mortarman here is my question: I know that I should be back in Plan B. However, I asked H to let me know how his counseling sessions goes on Wednesday. May I still get that information from him? And THEN reintroduce Plan B after he lets me know how it went? Telling him that I am encouraged that he is doing that, hope it gives him the guidance he needs to get his life where he wants it to be, reinforcing my love, etc.?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it definitely helps that you show him you are interested in his counseling. It shows you still care.

But remember, he is still in the Fog. So how he receives this may be different than you think of one with a rational mind.

Can you start seeing the same counselor on your owm? Tell your husband that you think it would be good if you had IC with the counselor too, that way the counselor would be better prepared to help both of you because he/she would be getting the full picture. Then, by you seeing this counselor, that person could help guide you in a direction based on their interaction with your WH.

But be careful. If the counselor your husband is seeing isnt good, they might pull YOU away from the principles that got you to this point.

I guess all I am saying is that you could open up Plan B slightly by seeing the same counselor at different times. You are still staying dark, but are allowing a third party to interact and help guid.

If not, then maybe you do find out about the session, encourage him that you are proud of him. And then send a loving PBL that outlines again that you MUST go dark until he is rid of OW. That you hope the counselor will help him find the strength to do so.

Just my two cents.

In His arms.

Issy,

I'm going to get to your question too....but I just wanted to say some things to you about exposure that should help you feel a little better about where I stand on this issue, and how I believe you are not operating outside of where you should be for Plan B.

Ideally, exposure should be done during Plan A. There are alot of reasons for this. First of all....when it can be done quickly and early, it can definitely shorten the affair. It works better when you are living together because the anger that the WS feels can be assauged a bit by meeting needs. It seems more understandable and even forgivable by the WS because at that point, you are still in Plan A (treating them very well in every other respect)....filling needs, not lBing and it seems reasonable that you will do all that is necessary to end the affair. The anger actually subsides fairly quickly and you still have time to build up the Love Bank before implementing Plan B. The problem is that very few people have the courage it takes to make full exposure during Plan A....it's just too scary and it goes against instinct.

Then Plan B comes along.....and that's when spouses seem more willing to expose...but for the wrong reason. That reason is vindictiveness...and that's how the BS sees it too. From their perspective, it's like saying "oh yeah....well if I can't have you...no one can...watch this." NOT the message you want to send at all. If it isn't seen as a marriage saving technique, then the riskiness of Plan B is just worsened sometimes. So I am not worried about your lack of exposure at this point. It is NOT however because I believe that your husband would never forgive you....I still think that's a threat...but the real value is right in the beginning of Plan A....and you get diminishing returns after that. So with Plan B....rather than sending out letters and such....I just prefer that the BS doesn't keep things secret if asked. You shouldn't have to be dishonest if you are asked directly by people close to you...but the whole exposure "campaign" is not optimum while separated. JMHO Does that make sense?

I also am not completely on board with just blanket exposure....I much prefer to see exposure used to enlist the help of people who can fortify your marriage. IMO, work is one of the gray areas, and is most helpful when the A is with a coworker. In that instance, the hypocrisy of the WS saying that "it will ruin a career" is unbelievable since it's THEY who chose to go against company policy to begin with. But again, this is most appropriate during Plan A.

Okay, so about your question....counseling and your desire to know how it goes. As much as you would like to know....I would rather see you stay dark. Your H knows how you feel about him and that you wish him to go to counseling. I would rather you go back to a position of more strength...and that's back to Plan B. I don't want him to get the impression that you are waiting and placing expectations on that visit. I can't see how that will help much. Plan B is about you....and not him. It's where you make decisions for you, instead of anticipating what his next move will be. For instance, if he goes and nothing comes of it....or he is very blase in his explanation....how will that affect your feelings for him? Will it protect your love for him in the event that it changes nothing? I'd like to see you remove the risk of that by just attempting to remain separate and safe from any disappointments or pain right now.

Hope this helps.

star*fish,

Thanks. Oh boy, did your overview help! I thought I was going crazy...that people were insisting on my exposing and it was wrong in my eyes.

OK, this will be short. Had computer problems last night and couldn't connect, but will try to add more at lunch today.

My only ? about the counseling session: I had asked, and he had promised, to let me know how it went. I don't want to go against that promise to him and appear to have turned my back on him. And what do you think about Mortarman's suggestion that I get the counselor's name and start talking to him also?

Mortarman, will get back to you, hopefully at lunchtime today as well.

Gotta go get ready for work now.

Because of new Privacy Laws, counselor can't even get in touch with you without your WS' permission. That might get complicated for you.

Just letting you know.

Take Care.

Mimi,

Thanks for clarifying. I was not suggesting that the counselor would share info. Of course he/she wouldn't. The point to seeing the same counselor is to have someone that kind find the truth in the two stories. My wife and I did much better when we were seeing the same counselor, of course individually. That way, the counselor heard both side of the story, and was able to help both of us to look at things from a different perspective.

It is something to try.

Otherwise, I wouldn't keep track or even necessarily want to hear the details of how his counseling is going. Plan B is as much as him going into darkness as you. By getting involved or listening to his issues, you will be tempted to be drawn back in. Encourage him to continue, and then go dark. If you can see the same counselor, then great. Otherwise, Plan B lady!!

In His arms.

Went looking for your Plan B Support Group thread but it looks like it died. Too bad, because today I became a Plan B member, and I think I will definitely need some support before this is over.

Sorry, guys. Got busy and couldn't get back here until tonight. Now...

Mortarman, I think it is interesting what happened with your W. My H and I counseled with Jennifer Harley - a lot - since the first of the year. Of course, the majority of the time he was DEEP in the fog, even lying to Jennifer about whether he was continuing contact with OW. He also has read:

SAA
Surviving Infidelity
Torn Asunder
Private Lies
Fall In Love, Stay In Love

and listened to HNHN on tape.

I can only hope that something beneficial to the M has imbedded itself in his brain, even subconsciously, and that it sneaks in periodically and, like a Tropical Depression, gains strength (spoken like a true Florida gal, huh?).

MM, I think you might find this interesting: I asked H last Thursday when we had our "talk" how he faces God. He hung his head and said, "It isn't easy, but I am trying to work it out." I asked what he meant, and how. He responded, "Lots of prayer." Then added, "If you mean am I seeing a religious counselor, no, but I probably should be."

I think I will handle the question of the counselor tomorrow, after he sees him.

I had a weird experience driving home tonight. A local radio show had a marriage counselor on as a guest, and was announcing they would be taking phone calls from listeners. They then broke for a song, and it was Celine Dion's "Because You've Loved Me." ("you were my strength when I was weak," etc.).

Now I say weird because 11 years ago, my H had lost his job, nearly lost his emotional health totally, was in counseling, and had a brief A. Afterward, everytime he heard that song, he said it reminded him of me, how my love had saved him during those awful times.

I just found it odd that the marriage counselor show was coming on, my H and I being where we are now, and then that song. I almost believe it was a message sent to me. Sure hope so.

ISG

bumping.

Hi Issy! Any new developments? That is so bizarre about that song! I have a song like that I associate with my mother. Whenever things are really bad....and in the strangest circumstances and places....it come on and reminds me that she is still looking out for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi star*fish,

Well the only "development" is that there is none. What I mean by that is that I believe there was no IC appointment today. I now believe that was nothing more than another lie told to me by my H. He has probably made no appointment for IC because - why would he want to be "fixed" or "cured" or "treated"? He is blissfully in the middle of the euphoria of the A.

I can't help but think that he is continuing to treat me worse and worse to try to force my hand in filing for Dv. Last Thursday when we talked, when he said the only solution for us was Dv, I told him that maybe he wanted one, but I did not. His response: "I disagree. I think you do want one." Now, nothing has ever been said or done to lead him down THAT path. So it is all made up stuff.

I also challenged him last week and said, "So you're going to meet her family?" He said OW wanted him to meet his sister. I said (LB, I know), "So, what do you do? Remove your wedding ring for the weekend?" And he said, that's why he hadn't committed to going, that he wasn't comfortable. Another lie, I believe. He just said that so I would drop the subject.

So I am feeling pretty crappy. Extremely disappointed that H is not really in counseling, upset that again, his only way of dealing with me appears to be thru lying. I just feel we are moving further and further apart.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Isgirl,

I had a feeling that this whole counseling thing was a smoke screen to placate you. There probably is a part of him that knows he should go....but as you say....the addiction of the A keeps sanity from creeping in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The big thing is that Plan B shouldn't involve these converstations at all....don't you think it's time to go really dark? You know SusanBT is in the middle of a relapse too. The Plan B for her....seems like the perfect situation for for H because he wants to pursue the affair...and Plan B lets him. It's confusing and awful. But really....both spouses have left and are pursuing....Plan B didn't do anything to help that situation....it's designed to help you. To help you get away from the constant assault on your emotions and to protect the love you have left. That won't happen if you continue to communicate with him. Your love and respect for him are draining out of you. It's time got underground and stop giving him amunition to shoot at you. It's time to let her fulfill ALL his needs and fail at it.

I know you must be so sad (((((((issy))))))), but don't lose faith. Let God do some of the work okay?