NW-

It will do the opposite. She will want what she no longer can have. What does a child do when you tell them no..they bag and throw tantrums...

What is you're wife doing when you say no?

Kily,
Can you access your hotmail account from where you are now? If so,move to that and let me know here.
NW

Yup-

I'll keep an eye out...

NW-

You've got mail, but now I can't get back to my email at hotmail. The server is too busy.

Try Oceangirl06460@yahoo.com if you need me.

ALS-
I read yours....man, I'm going to be busy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks.

Kily --

I told you the responses were long. No excuses for being bored at work anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Okay, so let me ask you this -- Does your X hear about the stuff that YOU do with DS? Do you offer this information up? Does he ask? Remember, just as it hurts for you to hear about what he and GF do with DS, it may also hurt for him to hear that you are having fun with DS as well. Even moreso maybe, because DS obviously is enjoying his time with you to a greater extent.

The point to get to here is this: You need to find a way to delicately let him know that it hurts for you to hear about what he does with DS because you wish you could be a part of that too. I wouldn't use this as an attack on the GF, but more as a reflection on your feelings and that it makes you sad because you are not part of that as a whole family anymore. And then just politely let him know that you'd rather not hear about everything they are doing with DS because it's hard to hear. Maybe he feels the same way.

Just a thought.

Get that hotmail back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS

SS-

I wants to go back and address what you had written in a little more detail...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Will he wake up in "Vegas" and realize he is in the wrong place? Where will Kily be then?

No, we don't know the future, but I put a lot of credence in your - what? - dreams? visions?

Is it wishful thinking transformed into an experience? I just don't think so.
Do you pray?
Do you know someone is there?
Are you living as well as you know how to live? Doing what you know you ought to do from day to day?
If yes, then you can get more help to know your direction.

Tell him what you tell us, then put out what you believe is the best solution. You will feel positive and at peace if it is right, full of doubt if not. Ideas will come to you as you continue to think about it. I don't think you would get all the help you relate to us just to hit a dead end. I don't think you believe that either, but it's hard when you don't understand it all. Remember that faith is not knowing everything, but it is believing anyway because of the little you do know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still Seeking, I do belive that X will have that awakening one day. Truthfully, as much as I want to be there, I can't say that I will be there.

I put a lot of credence in my visions too. Remember, I had a vision that he was wearing a wedding ring. Perhaps that was a "vibe" I was reading because he was planning on asking her to marry him, or maybe it was to tell me that this was his path. I feel that it was more the former than the latter.

I struggle with the wishful thinking part of it. I've thought about this a long time - spiritually and logically. I've come to accept that when the messages are received, they are usually spontaneous, and occur when I least expect them to. I tend to believe that they are not about what I WANT, they just are. So I am at peace with this.

DO you remember recently when I said that I felt that an upcoming marriage wasn't going to take place...well two weeks ago, the preist that was performing the ceremony died. I don't know if that is an omen, but I KNEW that he was going to die. I just had this sense and after I found out, I felt a tremendous amount of guilt because I didn't tell anyone.

I pray all the time. I was parying in the court house for God to help X and me to get past the pain that this was causing us. I asked God to give me the courage and strength to get through this with a healthy attitude in order to arrive at a fair settlement. I prayed that X would forgive me for the Anger that he would be feeling once the judgements were made.

Funny, I had this talk with ALS in an email. When I was young, I saw my guardian angel. I had climbed the stairs and it was early morning - still dark outside. I sat with this young woman (19 ish) at first believing it was my eldset sister. After a minute, I realized that she wasn't a REAL person and at first became fearful then peaceful. Moments later she was gone.

It took me a long time to realize the significance of that experirnce. I believe that she is there to guide me and help me when I need it most. I belive (this is a little far fetched) that she was also the woman that saved me in the boon on that day when I nearly drowned. Yes, I belive someone is there and that I have a purpose that I am being led to.

I am living as well as I can for my circumsatnces. There is much about my life that I don't share here due to embarrasment mostly. The end result though is that I try to rise up to the difficulties with as much integrity and openness that I can. I don't always make the best decision for ME, my kids do come first, but I do what I belive my higher power wants from me.

Day to day I know that I'm supposed to be doing something different than I am now. There are too many obstacles in my path. I know that I will have the economics there for me, but I am being asked to take a leap of faith from my inner being. That's a scary thing because my last leap of faith ended here. I'm being told to leave my employment and start a carrer from scratch.

It sounds crazy, but I was meant to heal people. I'm strongly feeling like becoming a therapist, or teacher. Completely different from Engineering on EVERY level. Go figure.

ALS-

To answer your question, No-I share NOTHING with X at all. He made it VERY clear that he "was not leading me on", "Is happy with his fiancee", "has moved on", and wonders why I don't get it.

I'be heard him, and have accepted it. My problem is that something other than "me" keeps telling me that he'll be back. Sometimes I wonder if it's wishfull thinking. I realize that it isn't. See, I've made peace with the idea of them. It's just that there's a voice inside that screams, just as it did with Mortarman's wife, that I need to stay put. That he will have his crash and then we can finally get to the healing and growing.

Logically, it doesn't appear that this will ever happen. Spiritually, there is no doubt in my mind. I don't like this hanging on and have made every effort to let it go...

Then I hit a bump.

How do you know when to listen to the logical or spiritual?

Kily,

I've been thinking of you. I hope that what you feel for yourself and the possibilities of the future with your X comes to be.

NW

P.S. You have mail

Quick Update-

X doesn't want to work on things. He's adamant that he doesn't want the baggage from the "A" in his life.

He invited me to chuck e cheese to discuss custody issues on thursday night.

SS you are not going to belive this, but i felt completely at peace throughout the discussion. I was even encouraged by his annswer becuase it wasn't a complete I don't love you etc.... it was more of a i've been thinking about it and this is thte one stumbling block in my way.

I'm confused because his answers say one thing, but again, my instincts are telling me that I'm very close...

Am I in denial?
very confused about it.

Kily,

Hang in there. You may be right. If not, then you will be right for someone else...especially because of all your efforts.

One request...can you check out Cutter's thread? She is a FWW and having a very rough time.

Thanks.

In His arms.

MM-

I'm all over it!

Thanks for your words. Right now, any words help.

Kily,

It seems positive that he said that his concern is the A and not because he is lacking feelings for you. Maybe with some more time and effort on your part, that feeling about the A will fade some and allow him to focus on putting it behind. I would just remind him that you learned a lot from the experience, the loss of your relationship with him and a family life, what is important in life and that it would NEVER happen again. Good luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
MW

Kily,
Maybe I'm wrong, but IMHO your X is struggling with himself. His heart is fighting with his mind. Maybe he doesn't even realize it yet, but that's what I see. Remember, just a week (or was it 2?) before my wife came back I asked her if her feelings toward me were changing. She laughed at me! Responded with a resounding NO, she was still leaving, it was over.

So, I know what you mean when you say his actions are different than his words. I too went through a lot of self doubt and turmoil. My only advise is hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Good Luck and God Bless.
P.S. Just in case your wondering WE are doing GREAT!! I feel more Love for her now than I have ever before, and she says the same. There is hope; but then again there is reality. You have to wait for him to figure it out.

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: TM94 ]</small>

Hi Kily,

Are you smiling today? I hope you are, and that you have something to smile about.

Still Seeking, I do believe that X will have that awakening one day. Truthfully, as much as I want to be there, I can't say that I will be there.

Do you have somewhere else you need to be?
When people say they need to move on, that usually means find someone new. Are you ready for that?

I put a lot of credence in my visions too. Remember, I had a vision that he was wearing a wedding ring. Perhaps that was a "vibe" I was reading because he was planning on asking her to marry him, or maybe it was to tell me that this was his path. I feel that it was more the former than the latter.

I believe that sometimes things come to us to start us thinking in a different direction. It may not be important for the event you see, but the direction it takes you with your reasoning. Again, I don't know, but I don't think we get these things for nothing. Some things have happened that I didn't' understand for years after the event.

I struggle with the wishful thinking part of it. I've thought about this a long time - spiritually and logically. I've come to accept that when the messages are received, they are usually spontaneous, and occur when I least expect them to. I tend to believe that they are not about what I WANT, they just are. So I am at peace with this.

Tried to comment on this three different ways, but the words won't come. Perhaps best left for conversation - some time.

DO you remember recently when I said that I felt that an upcoming marriage wasn't going to take place...well two weeks ago, the priest that was performing the ceremony died. I don't know if that is an omen, but I KNEW that he was going to die. I just had this sense and after I found out, I felt a tremendous amount of guilt because I didn't tell anyone.

Just because you know something doesn't mean it's your fault. Some things are best kept to yourself. It ought to strengthen your faith that it happened as you believed it would.

I pray all the time. I was praying in the court house for God to help X and me to get past the pain that this was causing us. I asked God to give me the courage and strength to get through this with a healthy attitude in order to arrive at a fair settlement. I prayed that X would forgive me for the Anger that he would be feeling once the judgments were made.

That is good. It tells me that you understand something about prayer, and that you have faith.
I do that all the time too, because by now I know someone is there, and I know they listen and respond.
Yes, I believe someone is there and that I have a purpose that I am being led to.
If you are learn what you are here for, and you focus, you can accomplish a great deal of good. I suspect you have been asking lately what that purpose is, and what direction you need to go. I bet you have.

I am living as well as I can for my circumstances. There is much about my life that I don't share here due to embarrassment mostly. The end result though is that I try to rise up to the difficulties with as much integrity and openness that I can. I don't always make the best decision for ME, my kids do come first, but I do what I believe my higher power wants from me.

I have found that to be important. We are not expected to be perfect, but we are expected to do as well as we can with what we know. It is much easier to get help if we are already trying as hard as we can. I would count putting your children first as a plus, not a minus.
It's hard to get across how important this one is, but it sounds like you already know it.

Day to day I know that I'm supposed to be doing something different than I am now. There are too many obstacles in my path. I know that I will have the economics there for me, but I am being asked to take a leap of faith from my inner being. That's a scary thing because my last leap of faith ended here. I'm being told to leave my employment and start a carrer from scratch.

You are ahead of many, for many never get the first part of the message. This happened to me 20 years ago. I left a good job, and went to work for a small start up business at minimum wage. I knew from prayer that it was right but I didn't understand it at all. This is one of the times that logic wouldn't work. Sometimes my W would say: "Why are we doing this, it doesn't make sense." and I would reply "I have no idea, but we agreed this was the answer we got." she would agree, but she would wish out loud that she had a better understanding.
A partner and I became the owners of the company 8 years after I started working here, and with my partner retired, I am now the sole owner. Like I said, it made no sense at the time. The story is longer and has more twists and turns and there was lots of hardship involved, but it worked well in the end. One of the places you are thinking of going is a place I have already been. I do tend to trust my answers more now.

It sounds crazy, but I was meant to heal people. I'm strongly feeling like becoming a therapist, or teacher. Completely different from Engineering on EVERY level. Go figure.

Do you still think it sounds crazy to me?

Are you smiling yet? I am, a great big happy smile.

Because we are imperfect, and we need to learn, we have experiences that teach us. I don't like all of mine either, but they are a necessary part of life. I think if we are quick learners, we can get by without some experiences. Our decisions tend to lead us to the things we need to learn the most.

One of the worst things for most of us is the unknown. What is supposed to happen? What actually will happen? What am I supposed to do? What will X do?

One of the nice things about faith is that we don't need to worry about all that ( the things listed above) so much. We do what we know we ought to do, we try to find out more, and we do that as we discover it, but we live to be happy from day to day and we don't worry about all the terrible things that COULD happen. When I say live to be happy, I have been a lot more happy since I started trying to live the best kind of life I know how to live than I ever was when I tried to get in the most fun I could possibly cram into each day. So much happier in fact, that I find I want to pass on the things that have helped me - to others.

Quick Update-X doesn't want to work on things. He's adamant that he doesn't want the baggage from the "A" in his life. He invited me to chuck e cheese to discuss custody issues on thursday night.

SS you are not going to belive this, but i felt completely at peace throughout the discussion. I was even encouraged by his annswer becuase it wasn't a complete I don't love you etc.... it was more of a i've been thinking about it and this is thte one stumbling block in my way. I'm confused because his answers say one thing, but again, my instincts are telling me that I'm very close...

Am I in denial?
very confused about it.

I don't have the answers. I just don't.
I do know that Moses had to walk up to the burning bush before the voice spoke to him. I don't think it would hurt you to go and talk. My suggestion would be to write down your boundaries and a short summary of why you have each one before you go. I say write the reasons too so that your mind will remember the purpose if something happens that affects you emotionally. I am saying this not to protect you, because I believe you will be all right, but sometimes people hang on to a boundary that should be changed. In other words, the reason or for the boundary goes away, but the boundary is kept in place. Kind of like when someone is in plan B, and the WS sends a note saying they are ready to talk about getting back together but the BS is in plan B so they refuse to answer. Sometimes boundaries need to be looked at again in light of new information. I think you understand what I am getting at, sorry it's so long.

Don't get your hopes up, he could be wanting to guilt you in to giving him everything. Now, I doubt it, but you need to be open minded and careful at the same time. I tend to think that with the way you have responded to him in the last few conversations you will do really well.
If something really different than what you expect comes along, don't be afraid to tell him you need a few minutes to think - and then sit and think.

As far as him saying one thing, and you feeling another, see TM94's post. I think he covers it really well.

I feel really good about your lifetime of possibilities. Do you?

SS

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>