well No2????????????????????/

Do I need my 2x4?????????/ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

hope you are well
how did today go?
ark

AAAAAArk um um um um um.............. I don't know? Be nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Are you going to be nice????lololol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Yep I'm gonna be nice..(I'm always nice... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

and will gently attempt to turn your thoughts around to grasping how much respect you deserve...

It's all a matter of mind control... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK

Ok then I will tell.

Well... the day was a different one I will say that. And do forgive me I am just getting off work.

My H arrived his normal time (12:00) and I did not here him arrive. The oldest son let him in,I had only had a hour in a half of sleep the day before, so when I got home Sunday morning I was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> well you know.
H did not get me up he let me sleep so I did not get to leave. I woke up around 3:00, I was in total shocked that I had slept like that. While I was sleeping H took ySon outside to keep the house quit. They bathed the dog, fixed the mower,and went on a long walk together.

I went out to look for them and did not see them in the yard, so I poured myself a cup of coffee that he had made and went out and sat on my porch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> When they came back Yson was telling me everything they had done. I said, you and daddy have been busy. Yson says are you proud of us mom? Got to love them kids I gave him a hug and told him yes and thank you. I then got up and went and took a shower did not say anything to H.

The day was really gone he leaves at six. I cooked super that was when I found out H was sick and he was still going to eat. He said he didn't want to hurt my feelings, and no it was not my cooking love to cook and he know that.

Now.... what I did friday, I put out my going out cloths in my bathroom. The high hill shoes, jewlery on the bathroom counter with my lipstick,purfume. Well he knows what I do if I'll be going out had it all set up and let his mind wonder. I even had my best friend call at 6:oo and I played it off as a time being set up and she is on the other end laughing her A$$ off.

Now when he came back Sunday, there was candles around the bathtub. I don't know if he seen all of this,(I know he had to see the clothes) he did not say a word. But he did wash the dog, fixed the mower,and asked about me, on Sunday and when he left Sunday Yson and I were in the room and HE SAID LOVE YOU GUYS BYE. I did not react to it or say bye. Now, I can be reaching for straws here but he always says by (Yson name) love ya. What do you think?

I will have to go to plan B? I think I need him to miss me right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Ok ark, yes you are always nice I was just joking I need you to keep me in line ok? Thanks for your time got to go get some sleep.

A ps. to this note someone try to brake into my house last night in the basement and the oldest son got one of them in the back with a wooden baseball bat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> that I keep for just that reason and the police came. Son called me at work it took me seven mins to get home on a fifteen min drive. Everyone is ok, they got nothing. Should I call and tell H or just want till his next visit or nothing?

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

No2 perhaps I can be mean... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So I am going to ask you what plan are YOU in??

If I'm following this right his cahoonas are so enlarged that basically you gave the guy your plan B letter...and he just refused to read it.
And you accepted that as an answer...

that is what is making me hunt furiously for a 2x10 let alone a 2x4... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

so what's your plan...cling to the tiniest smidgens of looks that say "you know what I mean"...and verbal fly-balls of Love ya both??

uuuuggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's like watching Lucy pull the football out from charlie brown over and over...and NOW I do feel mean....but NO2....
what are YOU thinking????????
what are YOU doing?????????????

planb planb planb planb planb planb..

You both are really really really good conflict avoiders that serves no good to you...
I mean we are talking olympic medal status here on avoiding the issues...

Mail a plan b letter to him, to his office, to the OW...
I can't believe the way you have ignored her existence in this...and not that I am suggesting a huge confrontation....but sheesh keep things the way they are going...and guess what..you will soon be viewed as the OW in their relationship <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Time for to call him and say..need a babysitter this night I have plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time to mail him another plan b letter.
time to have him come over to see his son this weekend..but have son somewhere else and read your plan b letter to him.
time to have him come over to see son..but have son be somewhere else and have the plan b letter taped everywhere...

are you sure he hasn't read it..
email it every day...

So there I am mean..but you aren't in plan a....
You aren't in any legal arrangements except foreclosure while he's at the beach...
and you aren't in plan b..

sounds just like it was three months ago..
sound exhausting and lonely and that you are worth much much more...

ark <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ark you are not being mean!!!!!!!!!! You are helping me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and I thank you . When someone stands on the outside looking in they see things that some in do not. Hope you understand that.

I here you the seed has grown into a planB,planB.............

The letter will be given,should I really mail one to her? I feel that will pi$$ him off bad!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I see you having a good one with that give it to me. Will check in in the morning, got to get ready for work thanks.

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

No2

straighten me out here...
did you hand him the plan b letter and he..
1. didn't take it with him
2. took it but claims not to have read it

how do you know he hasnt' read it and is just ignoring it?

Also does he live with her when not coming over to play house...

Have you ever asked what his plans are for permanent visititaion?

Is the Ow from his work and is the affair known to co-workers?

He is big time cake eating..if you go back and read this post...each time he sucks you right in with little tiny strings..
wind chimes
negatives about the OW...
comments about you...

god what torture...

I would start using words with him like seperation, visitation,

did you post your plan b letter

ARK

Dear Ark,

You express a firm desire that Plan B is the only way to go for Mrs. Nose. I have seen Plan B letters cause problems in recent posts. Certainly you can express your enthusiasm for Plan B letters, and carrying out Plan b, 100%, but it seems that by Mrs. nose simply being reserved, that she may be making some progress.

Mrs. Nose is in a competition for the heart of the father of her son. If Mrs. Nose feels that she may be making progress as things are going, then why stir things up now?

Mrs. Nose asked the questions of whether she should call H about the break-in. You did not respond to her Question. I will sometimes limit initiating conversations with my wife. What about just letting yson tell dad about the robbery?

Certainly the formal parts of Plan B can be important in certain cases. It may be productive or counter-productive to contact the other woman, in this case. If Mrs. Nose feels she is making progress without contaccting the other woman, then why get the other woman further motivated.

You mention that you think that having the other woman in the picture is torture. Maybe it would be torture for you. But different people can tolerate different situations. I see that Mrs. Nose is upset about the situation, but trying to knock the other woman out, at all costs, at this time, does not seem wise to me.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that being cool, may be a better play at this time.

I don't try to focus on getting information about what my wife is doing with other men, I focus on what My wife and I are doing. I try to respond, cool or warm, depending on her vibes. Mrs. Nose seems to feel like she is making progress right now, so why change things? To fit into some mold that has worked for some, and failed for others? Molds are good to examine, but they should only be used to the extent that some parts fit into the current action plan.

Whenever I post, I try to share some of my problems. I do not see you mention your own current problems. I find your approach overly opinonated. What's wrong with giving some options and opinions. You post like you think you know 100% certain what is best. I certaily don't know, but I don't think you do either.

Best wishes

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Mr. Quipper,

I will respond to this here..but if you have more questions, concerns, comments, then we should move to a new thread..as I don't want to threadjack no2's thread here..

My concerens to NO2 are based on the information in this post and her other recent post which was her seeking help on how to CHANGE her situation..

If I sound opinionated it is because I am...isn't that what 99.99999% of responses to anyones post is if it suggest something...an opinion??

Based on the following is why I post these suggestions to No2

His involvement with the OW in long on going...including d-day over a year ago followed by her plan a...according to MARRIAGE-BUILDERS Plan a is to have a time limit...not an indefinate state..for then it becomes familiar and almost gives permission....not that the changes in plan a aren't permanent...just that they can be facilitating cake eating at it's best...

Mr. No2 is a really really really good cake eater...and mrs. no2 has every right in her life to accept that is her life...but she ASKED and SOUGHT help in changing...

and she can't change him...but she can change her..

He gets a lot of needs met by her...which then prevent him from experiencing the reality of his actions and consequances of his hurtful actions...
her participation in meeting these needs remains her choice...but it is my opinion that she should not meet these needs...

this guy literally wants to come over and play house..week after week and hardly acknowledges that there is an OW....I am not even clear that she has a phone number to get in touch with him if there is an emergency at her house...

she is in foreclosure while he is vacationing at the beach...
yep that sounds like torture to me..even based on her own pain posted about that....torture in the sense that it is heartbreaking, scary, and sad...but again that's only my opinion...

To fit into some mold that has worked for some, and failed for others? Molds are good to examine, but they should only be used to the extent that some parts fit into the current action plan.

The whole point of Marriagebuilders is to offer a type of plan or "mold" to assist people in finding a footing or grounding when things are rough....really really rough...and while I am no die-hard it must be done this way person...

change has to begin somewhere...and it's hard and scary and I get that it is..but it is also empowering and focuses us...

do a search on my history...I'm not going in to it here...

None of my suggestions are without concern for the person they are offered to.

No2 has my full support in realizing that what I SUGGEST is difficult, scary, and all those other things that change makes us feel...
yet we have do have choices to make all the time...

all of my post are just options mr. quipper...
no one has to do buckus based on anything I say...
sorry you find me so offensive...

ARK

Quipper, Thank you for your time and you put what I feel into words that I have been trying to say. My husband says we are not like other couples that have sperated. Why, repect, more on my be have then his, he knows that. I treat people the way I wish to be treated so I feel that I may not be like other woman that have lost there husband to a other woman. Do you know how many say they would have slapped that b$tch to the ground or rocked her world. Well... I see that making me lower then her and that is pretty damn low. I know my H is wondering why I never said or did anything to her. I would rather keep his mind in over drive on that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ark is right in the fact that he is using me as a door mat. I see that and I feel he knows that. Yson does not know that someone broke in he slept trough it. I did call H the next day and told him he was here in ten min after call. (I know he should have just been here to begin with to protect his children and home.) Why did he come right hafter I called him at work, to put the word out that he was look for these people and he did so and it lead to OSon and H finding the truck that was used for it and the police getting more leads on it and the people from that. Ark I don't have a number to call him at the house, his cell phone has been off for two weeks now. I would not called anyways, If he was worried about all of this he should be here. The OW will never use me to say she is getting hang up calls and such from me because I do not have the house phone number, she tried that once a while back and that blew up in her face.

Quipper you were saying people tolerate people different and that is true, what I have been taken a dear friend of mine can not and she is one month into it. She does not know how I am doing it. I love my H,he is my friend first,then my Husband. Don't get me wrong she loves her H to but the level to tolerate is different by people. I feel I am getting tired of being a door mat from him, but like I have said I do see different things coming my way from him that I have not seen in the past since we have seperated. That is why I do not know what to do. I really think I have got my H to fall back in love with me even though I feel in his heart he never stop, I was just tucked in the back there and I have slowly pulled mysef back to the front of his heart again.

Quipper I here you when you say responding to vibes. That is what I do I can feel him and be able to tell what is in the air for him mood wise (is that the way to say it)

No!!! I want no part of Ow in my life other then what she has forced on me herself. I do not ask question about her I do not know what she looks like. I have done that for a couple of reasons, one I do not what her to have anything on me that I did this or that to her, because I do not have that information on her, and second I do not ever want compare her to me and every woman does that in their head and I do not want that. I like the picture of that ugly #itch I have in my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know she ain't all that, because of what she has done,the mossst greediest thing someone can do, to me beauty comes from your inner,that is what you stand for in my books. Anybody that would put hurt into a childs life is that (ugly) and you know what that makes my H just as bad to. But that was not what I married and I know the true him inside and that is what I am fighting for!!!!!

I again asked for help here and I know I can't change him, but I would like to find ways to pull back the H I married and have shared my life with so far. I thank all that is willing to help and give me pointers that is why I am here. They are all food for thoughts, and I feel so much better posting here it is nice to be heard,by people who know how you are feeling and what you are going through.

((((((((((BIG HUGES OF THANKS))))))))))))))) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

I have read back threw my post and I see my rollercoaster ride right in front of me and I see what some are saying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I do let him drag me into his fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I do not know what I am scared of but I do need to do something, I am not being fair to myself and that is wrong.

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

Dear Mrs. Nose,

You say that you feel that you have to do something. You are unhappy with the stiutation as it is. Your husband visits only on Sundays, and there are money difficulties. Your home is protected from bankruptcy, as I understand it. You have children who are adversely affected by the situation of the Other Woman.

Many readers can feel your frustration.

Taking action has the risk of losing more than you have already lost.

One thing you have mentioned is that your youngsters mention various opinions from time to time. Since some of your youngsters are adolesents, it is difficult to just dismiss thier ideas, without an explanation.

I know a mother who listened to her teenage daughter, that she did not want her mom to reconcile with her step father, and the mom decided not to. Well the step father had adopted the step daughter and was legally responsible for child support. Unfortunately, the step-father ended up going drinking, traveling and drifting for several years. The mother was quite a bit more unhappy with no chld support coming in, than when she would have been if she had tried to make a go of what she had.

You do not mention a list of things that you would like to change. In what ways do you feel like a doormat? I believe your daughter is not supposed to see the other woman. Is that still a problem?

What can you do differently to make things better? What advice are you getting from counselors, and others, that you are following, that is not making things better?

You mentioned that your husband is untruthful with you. Are there expections of yours that he is trying to avoid disappointing you about? What are the expectations he understands from you? What expectations have you changed, that you have not told him about? What expectations can you change, that will make it less likely for H to lie to you?

You talk about your husband's duty to help with the children. You do not mention all the advantages that he used to experience in your household. You do not mention all the emotional needs that you are better trying to fulfill, with the time that you have on Sundays.

You make it sound like he owes you, rather than that you have great things to offer your husband. What have you rejected from your counselors? What have you told your counselors that you are rejecting from them? What have you yelled at your counselors about? What would you like to reject from your counselors?

My wife is moving my stuff around, in the basement, after we had agreed that she has the first floor and I have the basement. I spoke to her crossly about her transgression, but I have failed to keep a bottle of Coke in the refrigerator. My wife is difficult if she is without coke.

Did you ever see the movie, Surviving Picasso? Picasso had a daughter, I believe, by a woman whom he saw only on Thursdays. He had other mistresses during the period of the daughter's growing up, but always visted on Thursdays. Her mom really did not seem to want Picasso around more than just Thursdays, wwhich apparently was quite enough of Picasso.

You have mentioned missed vacation opportunities, but those disappointments may not seem such great hardships, if you look at the building of character for your youngsters. The daily rewards of your contingent praise may well be more important.

What do you hope not to decrease?

For a male perspective, you might look at Jion 35, 29184, under Plan A/Plan B, 7-25-03, WAYWARD WANTS TO GO HOME, and 7-28-03, WAYWARD SEEING THE LIGHT.

You mentioned that your husband did not pay his cell phone bill. It is easy for a married man to get started with another woman. When the Other Woman first comes into the picture, child support has not been ordered, and Wayward Husband has extra money, and OW appreciates that, and gets gushy feelings. But once child suppport payments have set in for a while, the money starts to get tight. Hubby might be ready to come home now. Have you invited him back? What phrases would allow him to save face and return?

Jion35 says he was always ready to come back, but the situation never came together. I suspect that Jion's OW was getting less cooperative as the money ran low.

Quipper,
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

If I come off as the bad one in this in saying what I say...then so be it...
but here goes...

I love my H,he is my friend first,then my Husband

see that's what I am struggling with..people don't treat friends this bad...
people who lie, and rob "friends" of financial, emotional, and physical" support don't really meet the definition of a friend...
and changing the definition of words is a great tool that WS often engage in to justify and rationalize their actions...

You don't have a way/number to reach your husband....

and his not addressing that issue is not the actions of a friend.

going on vacation while your children/wife face foreclosure are not the actions of a friend...

Verbally attempting to tell you that My husband says we are not like other couples that have sperated.

makes no sense to me...what does that mean?...

I am not saying he is the enemy either...what I am saying is that you can choose to be part of his cake-eating fantasy that he keeps going...
OR
you can say I for one have had enough of this disrepect...and set boundaries that define your worth...

AND EVEN IF WHEN the WS PERCEIVES that as love busting or disrepect or any other negative spin they will try to use to turn it around on the BS...

I don't see it as thus...
I see it as seperating oneself from painful confusing chaos...and with children involved it makes me want to argue that case even stronger...

what will/does he answer to his children's questions of why he is not there??

NO2 what are you afraid of happening...
what is it you fear..

because if you fear that "something" you do will cause the demise of this relationship once and for all...
you are feeding and playing right in to his hands...

do you believe that standing up for yourself makes you the bad guy??
if you do that's twisted...understandable with such a good cake eater...but twisted...

the changing of definitions to meet need is as we say in my neck of the woods..
a "slippy" slope...

that can be used to rationalize bad choices, actions and behaviors....

It eats at our souls when attempt to justify wrongs by turning them magically in to rights...

call me mean or whatever...
it is an opinion
aRK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dear Mrs. Nose,

I agree with Ark that chaos is undesirable. To what extent is chaos increasing or decreasing? In what respects?

I asked my wife to either show me that chaos in our house was decreasing, or to agree that chaos was something that she could not avoid creating.

My wife creates last minute emergencies for no real reason, expect perhaps her own procrastination. I think that a spouse should assist if a last minute circumstance arises unexpectedly. Or there is an occasional oversight. But a regular diet of near catastrophes is a drag.

Your husband seems to be making the child support payments, and you can contact him at his work. Are there mutual acquantences through whom you could contact H if you needed to, in the evenings?

Could you simply say to the children, that you are just waiting for Prince Charming to come along, and in the mean time, you are just putting up with their wayward dad, one day a week, in the meantime? If they want to pray that Wayward Dad turns into Prince Charming, they should be free to do so. Is it possible for the chaos to decrease, as things are? What actions are within your grasp to be able to reduce chaos?

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and stil struggling

Quipper H comes to the house Wed, Fri after work and all day Sunday, all holidays are spent with us. He has done that since he left. I have One son that is five now and the other is eighteen and soon to be nineteen.

My H does owe me something respect! I have gave it to him this whole time. I do not care if his head is in fog or not I am as human as the next person! This man my H is not the one I married I feel like I have read that he is in total fog. I have been trying to find out how to get his head to pull out of that fog and for me to move back to the front of his heart I know I am still in his heart,and I feel I am almost there.

I can not change him just keep bettering myself. I have come a long way. I do not care to get into all of that. I just know I HAVE BETTER MYSELF FOR Me AND I BELEIVE IN ME!

Dear Mrs. Nose,

I have re-read some of the thread, looking to see if 180 Degree Divorce Busting has been mentioned. I did not see it.
There is a thread under Negotiating, started by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, which includes a list of ideas of things to change, Primarily for the purpose of feeling good about yourself.

This list is helpful in itself, but it may also give you ideas of how to change things to make yourself feel better. Sometimes a spouse strays when the hope of any change is not visible.

By making a routine of demonstrating an abilty to change, it will be difficult for your spouse to hold the idea that you cannot change. Also, by changing, you demnonstrate to yourself that you can make things more to your liking.

My wife agreed to reduce chaos, but then came up with two more emergencies for me to solve today. I just told her that I need to catch up paying the bills. I get off work at 11 PM. Last night I made a point of my request for reduced chaos by staying at work till 2:30 am.

Well when I get home, it is not happy for me. My wife has no idea or conception or even interest in what will make me happy. So, I may make it more of a routine to just stay late at work. She ordinarily goes to bed at 1 am, so coming home when she is asleep avoids any hassle.

I worked on some of my personal projects today, and yesterday, and made some progress, and felt good about it. My plan is to recognize that my wife creates chaos, and to work around the chaos she creates, but reducing some time I am around the house. It is my option to expose myself to chaos. It is important for me to recognize that my wife has no interest in reducing chaos, in spite of her saying she will try to reduce chaos. She will work to increase chaos, and I must find ways to avoid buying into her self-created emergencies.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Are you saying that I creat chaos in my life?

Dear Quipper,

I respectfully suggest that it would be a good idea for you to start your own thread to discuss the struggles you have in your own marriage. I am sure that many on these boards have struggled with similar problems and could offer their perspective, but they will not be able to, as long as you post here only on No2nos post.

While I understand you think No2nos may need some advice on her "planA", it is entirely possible that the problems you have with your wife are not in any way similar - not all marriages break down over the same things. Has your wife had an affair? Or are you the one who has had an affair? If not, the best board for you might be Emotional Needs - people over there are very good at dealing with the kind of conflict you describe.

As to chaos - its difficult to tell just what you are actually dealing with from your description. You would need to give more information. If your wife is having problems keeping the household organized (don't we all), I suggest you go to the Flylady website - www.flylady.net, it is Wonderful and could help both of you no end. If the chaos you refer to is about the household, you might want to ask yourself whether or not you believe this is all her job, or whether she feels it ought to be a joint endeavour. You could ask how you could help her.

In my house, my iron broke last year and hasn't steamed properly ever since. We don't have a lot of money - a new iron isn't high priority on my H's list of things to pay for. After saying that I needed a new iron a number of times, and nothing happening, I went "on strike". I washed all the clothes, but I basically stopped ironing for about 5 months. Everything stacked up everywhere and the house looked a mess - with clean laundry in piles stacked up and in the end, we ended up with nothing in the drawers. We had to search through every pile for a pair of socks, etc. Finally a month ago, he figured it out - took him awhile but he got the message. He went out himself and bought me a SUPER new iron. Now he has something to iron his own shirts with! LOL

SOMETIMES a woman lets chaos happen in order to make a point to a man who isn't listening and is not prepared to start listening.

I don't know your wife, but punishing her by leaving her home alone until after 1AM doesn't sound like a constructive, loving, or compassionate way to deal with your need for order.

---

No2nos - are you OK? I hope so.

LIR

Dear Mrs. Nose,

Ark raised the issue of the possibility of Chaos, as a factor in asessing the urgency of your situation. The question I meant to raise was whether your husband's behavior was creating chaos, and specifially how that was. And then to think of ways to address his behaviors that are creating chaos.

My style of posting is to include some of my own problems as I give ideas for solutions to the posted problems. Sometimes there is more commonality than at other times. It is certainly not bad advice to examine ways that you could plan ahead and make things run smoother for your household, but that was not what I was trying to say.

Many posters simply blast out their opinion about their perspective of what is posted. I usually try to post some questions to better understand the situation, and try to couch all my comments in the context of the possibilty that my suggestion may be innappropriate, or even counter-productive.

I have mentioned my ideal of reducing chaos to my wife. Recently I am forming the opinion that she is procrastinating on things that she knows need to be done for her projects, then, when finally there is an urgent need for them to be done, she foists them off on me.

I am not recommending a particular set of strategies to isolate any chaos that might be created by your husband's behavior. I have tried to point out my wife's inconsiderate behavior to her, and she has not been changing. Now, I feel, it is time to leave the laundry stacked around the house as suggested by Lady in Red. My style of insulating myself from my wife's chaos is something that is evolving.

But the other issue that comes up is how can you best insulate yourself from your expectations that are not being fulfilled? Can you modify the expectations? Can you modify your circumstances to better insulate yourself from your disappointments? Are there people in your life who refuse to accept your currently non-traditional marriage? Can you change their minds? Can you agree not to discuss the current state of your marriage with them? Can you minimize contact with those who do not appear to accept your non-traditional marriage? Can you make other friends? Can you attend a church without starch? Many Unitarians pride themselves in understanding many non-traditional aproaches to the family. When I have attended Catholic Mass, I have almost always just smiled and said hello to people, but almost never spoken personally to the other parishoners.

Lady in Red: I may be mistaken, but to the best of my understanding, affairs and jealousy are not issues in my marriage at this time. My wife has been quick to let me know when she feels that I am making her jealous. Affairs are not tempting for me, because my wife's fidelity is important to me. Therefore, I have no intention of giving her any excuse to stray. A husband having an affair gives a wife an excuse to stray, and a downward cycle can start. Maybe I am stupid, and maybe my marriage is not worth passing up chances for affairs, but that is how I see it today.

Best wishes

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>