Her Response:
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I would also like us to get to a better place in terms of how we relate to each other, but I have a feeling that meeting to talk about it would be anything but productive at this stage. I would prefer that we continue to pursue a cooperative and mutually respectful co-parenting approach and see where that takes us.

------------------------------------------

My Reply:

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I'm glad you'd like to get to a better place, and I'm not sure why it wouldn't be productive to talk about it -- could you explain? And yes, I agree -- cooperation and mutual respect is a good idea.
----------------------------------------

And another brief update. I've decided not to review WP's proposal for our financial separation. I believe that a more cooperative atmosphere is a good idea.... and financial separations are notoriously adversarial.

I'm going to spend the spring and summer having fun with DD instead.

Hello Just J. I don't have anything to say. Just popping in to say hello...

Oh well...One thought...OP is still in the picture, right? So there is no defogging or motivation for change on WP's part...

A.M. -- As far as I know, OM is still in the picture, yes, so you're right that there would be little motivation for change.

And for everyone else, a FRICKING GOSH DARNED UPDATE:

OhferPETESAKE.

There was no financial proposal. All that was sent was a response to an old and (as far as I'm concerned) useless exercise that started in FRICKING FEBRUARY or some darned thing.

Grrrrrrrr. I'm SO ANNOYED. With my attorney, not WP. All this pain for the WRONG THING????

I spoke briefly to attorney's assistant and pretty much said, "No, thanks, I won't be reviewing THAT either. Y'all go pound sand." Mostly politely, but I hope I was clear that the communication conduit is badly flawed and I'm not interested in spending more time on it.

Instead, I sent a note to WP outlining what I know about the financial situation and where it was. If it all falls apart, swell. If it doesn't, that's swell too. But I'm giving it away. Not my problem anymore. I gave it a ton of energy and got bubkus in return.

So I'm spending my time in the garden and playground from now on. Y'all want something from me? Come find me here.

Grump. Grump. Grump.

Hi J,

Y'all want something from me? Come find me here.

I don't need anything really. I just wanted to say hi.

Hi.

I can't imagine you staying grumpy for long. Even now I can see you break out in a smile. You KNOW some people like you. YOU KNOW that we have to have bad days to appricate the good ones.

Tomorrow will be better - and who knows about the day after that?

Have you read the bible? I know you read a lot. If you were starting, I would recommend the new testment. The old testment is so - long.

Grumpy? Ha, you can't fool me, I know you can't stay that way - I know it. Hold on to it as long as you need to, but then come back and play.

SS

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Yeah, even in the midst of grumpy I am usually able to laugh at my own grumpiness.

A few other things have happened, mostly in the legal/financial corner. Well, no. Nothing has HAPPENED. There's been a little more chat.

I've decided that as much as I can, chat will flow past me from now on. Chat is not action, chat is free, chat takes no movement in any direction.

It is, in other words, a delay tactic.

I'm okay with that. I don't need to go anywhere at the moment. I got myself all stressed out and anxieted up over refinancing the mortgage .... it's important to me to be able to do that, to reduce my costs by about $600 a month. (Not just the refi; various things in addition, but all related.)

But peace and tranquility is more important.

I'm slowly building up a small nest egg with the bits of extra money that come in (tax refund, travel reimbursement checks, etc.) and as that happens, my stress levels go down.

I need to go through and review my budget again, see if I can't reduce some bills some more. But I don't have to go through with the financial divorce to make that happen if I don't want to....

and I don't want to. Not today, anyway.

Last month I did. Next month I might want to. In this moment today, I don't.

What price a marriage? I dunno.

I played with the tarot deck last night, searching for the things that I'm not seeing in this situation.

I found the Last Judgment -- a final review of the past, an immutable change to something entirely new. I found an end to mourning and the beginning of hope.

I found the Fool beginning her Journey... and walking with her I found the Horned God and his powerful yearnings and urges, ones that are always dangerous to try to harness... ones that can be tremendously good and tremendously destructive, often at once.

I found the wise woman within me, I found DD and her mercurial personality (yay, terrible twos!).

I found myself staying too long in a place of withdrawn meditation. I saw someone, an unknown man, the ultimate Boy Scout.... but defiled somehow.

And I didn't see WP anywhere.

It's not about her... it's not about where she goes or does not go. It's about my journey of rebirth and renewal. About building my family and my self.

It's about spending time in the sun, in the garden, in the park... or wherever and however I choose to spend my time.

I don't know what that means for the financial divorce... I will wait to see where I'm lead on that.

I do know that it's right to focus on my own journey right now, on the temptations and opportunities along the way, on the potential for growing and healing, and for leaving the dead past behind.

I dunno where I'm going. I know that I'll cry again along the way. I know that I'm not crying today.

I sent you an email

Pep

I got your e-mail, Pep. Thanks!

And SS, you suggested that I read the NT. Sigh.

The trouble is, I always end up wanting to through the Good Book across the room when I try to read it.

But yes, I'll think about it.

I watched you try to help people understand about being nice. About how name calling hurts us more than anyone. You already have a lot of what the NT teaches down pat - but there are some things you can learn about you. I don't know when you last read, but you have come a long way, and are still improving. I think some things would hit you differently now.

I wonder if it's time for a name change. You are not JUST J, you ARE J.
Whatever you think, but I almost always say what's on my mind.

Now, I may not get back to you before Sunday, and so I think I will say this now.

Sunday is mothers day. If your daughter were older, I am sure she would honor you - and thank you for many things...........I pause, I think a long time about the things she might say. You have many good qualities........she might list them, and thank you for teaching them to her. Since she is still young, and you have no partner to remember you, I would like to tell you "Happy Mothers Day." J, you are of great worth to God. If you are willing to learn (and my bet is that you are,) you will acomplish much in your life. You will find happiness, don't doubt that.

Don't spend the next few days in regrets, spend them dreaming new dreams. You still have time to make them come true.

Things are seldom what we would like them to be, so we are left to learn how to transform what we get in to happiness anyway. Here's to happy days for J.

SS

I don't know when you last read, but you have come a long way, and are still improving. I think some things would hit you differently now.

Hee hee. You're right about that, though perhaps not the way you thought. I went and read a bit of Matthew today, starting from the end and working backwards chapter by chapter. Why? I dunno, just seemed right.

And when I got to Chapter 23, I read "You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"

And I thought, "Whoa! Now that is one nasty case of constipation! Jesus really pulled out the LBs here with the Pharisees and the scribes. Very creative use of insults, but.... No wonder they crucified him."

Err, was that what I was supposed to get out of that chapter? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

At least I didn't want to throw it across the room this time, though!

I wonder if it's time for a name change. You are not JUST J, you ARE J.

I've thought about changing the name again, but it seems that various people know me by this one. And "Just" J has various meanings -- I like the one that refers to justice, for example. There's humbleness in it, too, which is good for me. And there is a sense of aloneness that... well, for now, it seems that's who I am. It's just me, not me-as-a-part-of-a-couple.

Sunday is mothers day...Since [DD] is still young, and you have no partner to remember you, I would like to tell you "Happy Mothers Day."

Thank you, Still Seeking. I appreciate it. This is one of the things I didn't expect and have been surprised and very gratified by -- the number of people who made a special point to remember me on this day.

It gave me the small amount of extra energy that I needed to be able to do a small nice thing for WP without using up too many of my reserves in a place that seems to have no return on the investment of my resources.

J, you are of great worth to God. If you are willing to learn (and my bet is that you are,) you will acomplish much in your life. You will find happiness, don't doubt that.

I already have, SS. In a day like today -- sunshine and watermelon, giggling and a bit of a sunburn, hamburgers and grilled corn, TWO naps, friends around me and good thoughts in me -- in a day like today, there is much happiness.

Don't spend the next few days in regrets, spend them dreaming new dreams. You still have time to make them come true.

Oddly enough, I spent the time just revelling in the moments of Now that have been such a lovely weekend. There was prayer, there was peace, there was laughter and the baby standing on the dining room table (yes dear, I'm glad you can climb, now would you please never do that again?), there was so much to be grateful for. So I am grateful, and blessed, and, for this moment here, at peace.

Things are seldom what we would like them to be, so we are left to learn how to transform what we get in to happiness anyway. Here's to happy days for J.

<clink> I'll toast that any day!

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

How 'bout "J the Just"?

J the Just doesn't quite have the ring I'm looking for. .... and it misses the humble part, that I'm Just J, an ordinary human with callouses and blisters on her feet, with a happy smile and a need to pee on occasion. (Did you ever wonder how Superman pees in that get-up of his? Or Wonderwoman? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

So, yeah, I think I'll Just be J. I'll be J as well as I can, but I won't try to be more than J.

Hee hee. You're right about that, though perhaps not the way you thought. I went and read a bit of Matthew today, starting from the end and working backwards chapter by chapter. Why? I dunno, just seemed right.

And when I got to Chapter 23, I read "You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"

And I thought, "Whoa! Now that is one nasty case of constipation! Jesus really pulled out the LBs here with the Pharisees and the scribes. Very creative use of insults, but.... No wonder they crucified him."

Err, was that what I was supposed to get out of that chapter?

There are those that want to learn, that are humble, that seek to improve themselves. There are those that lie, cheat, and steal on purpose, that kill anyone that crosses them. He knew he was dealing with the latter kind of men - and he knew he would be killed. I am not sure if he sealed his fate on purpose - or just said what he was sent to say.

I don't know what you are supposed to get from reading, it's just that sometimes things come to me, and I say them.

At least I didn't want to throw it across the room this time, though!

Glad you found some value, even if it was entertainment value.

I enjoy our exchanges, you help me to think - I thank you.

I hope your DD is well - we got to watch DGD last night and it was really fun. One of the things Jesus said was "suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

That street we once talked about - the concept street for heaven - can you see children playing?

Help me here - it seems like as you came up through school, you learned to use sarcasm well, and some who knew you may have said you had a sharp tongue. When did you change, and why?

Now you seem to understand this: "Behold, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God."

I see you helping others with kindness way beyond what many are willing to give. You are tough, but you have a tender heart. I am glad.

SS

There are those that want to learn, that are humble, that seek to improve themselves. There are those that lie, cheat, and steal on purpose, that kill anyone that crosses them. He knew he was dealing with the latter kind of men - and he knew he would be killed. I am not sure if he sealed his fate on purpose - or just said what he was sent to say.

When I read this, I was reminded of my own situation -- my situation a year ago -- somehow. A hopeless situation, a fate already sealed, the wheels already turning. And yet I had choices in that time, as Jesus did. And I chose, as well as I could, not to cause harm to those who were harming me. I didn't succeed, not completely. And perhaps I was gentle where I should have Named the evil that was around me. I don't know.

Glad you found some value, even if it was entertainment value.

In entertainment are the greatest lessons humans ever learn -- told and retold and reretold over and over again because they echo so powerfully for us.

I enjoy our exchanges, you help me to think - I thank you.

You're welcome. I enjoy them too.

I hope your DD is well - we got to watch DGD last night and it was really fun. One of the things Jesus said was "suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

I read that part, too. Seems to me that people forget to play with children sometimes... and that while it's good for the children, it's also good for the adults when they remember to.

That street we once talked about - the concept street for heaven - can you see children playing?

In my mythic Street, where all is perpetually summer, there are children. Playing, yelling, riding their bikes and swinging on swings. And getting tired sometimes so that they can come in and sleep and dream. I wonder what we'd dream about in heaven. Maybe we wouldn't need to.

Help me here - it seems like as you came up through school, you learned to use sarcasm well, and some who knew you may have said you had a sharp tongue. When did you change, and why?

Mmm, sarcasm. Yes, that's a charge that's been levelled at me a few times. Most of the time, though, my humor was of a more innocent kind. I enjoy laughing -- I figure if I'm going to laugh, I might as well get other people to join me.

The edge that you're talking about was surely there, though, and it still is. I'm downright pointed with people when they're hurting themselves and their spouses these days. Sometimes it doesn't get through to them.... but sometimes it does.

As for when it happened? I don't know. Yesterday? A hundred years ago? It's always happening, always a choice. I can be wicked, or not. Mostly I choose so as to alleviate suffering these days. Seeing others in pain -- well, I can see it more clearly than I once could. And it hurts more than it used to.

Now you seem to understand this: "Behold, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God."

I think I've always known this part. I think what I've learned, over time and with many fits and starts, is how better to speak to souls, instead of to ears.

I see you helping others with kindness way beyond what many are willing to give. You are tough, but you have a tender heart. I am glad.

WP sometimes used to say I was too good to her, that she couldn't be that good back and it made her feel guilty. I never knew what to do about that. Other friends used to say the same thing. I was too loving, too trusting, too willing to bend and be flexible -- and not willing enough to say "no, this isn't okay with me."

I still ahve a hard time with that, though I pay more attention to my own sense of what's okay for me and what's not.

And once... once I thought that everyone was as able to use their minds as I was. Once I thought that the mind was ALL that there is, and I would get frustrated with the ones who spoke of heart and soul and emotions.

I learned, in the depths of my despair last year, that there's more than that.

I don't have much time, so will do as much as I can in the time I have.

I still havn't been to SYMC and really looked around. Went once and started but got interrupted - went back, crashed. Story of my life.

I think what I've learned, over time and with many fits and starts, is how better to speak to souls, instead of to ears.
Ah - it works really good for some, but others give the standard answers - and it is hard to get their attention.

Hi, how are you?
Fine, and you?

Can I help you?
No thanks, just looking.

It is difficult in this world to pay attention, and it is difficult to get someone else's attention. Perhaps that's a reason for A's. When someone lacks attention and someone else gives it freely, it is sometimes hard for the moth to stay away from the flame.

I tend to think it is good to listen, good to look into the heart. Relationships - be it friendship, or love, is based on knowing the other person cares about us.


And once... once I thought that everyone was as able to use their minds as I was. Once I thought that the mind was ALL that there is, and I would get frustrated with the ones who spoke of heart and soul and emotions.

I know you still get frustrated becasuse there are many that can't, or don't resopond to you when you "talk to their soul, and not to their ears."

I am having a hard time speaking to the rest of your comment. There is a lot of pain there still, and I was thinking it was mostly gone. Friends can only help so much, and we need to do much (most) of the work ourselves over time. I believe you will do it well, just like I believe Kily will. I wish I had time to sit and think and type more, but I have already promised the next block of time to other things, and other people.

I learned, in the depths of my despair last year, that there's more than that.

That is one of the happiest things I have read from you lately. You learned something very important. I wish the lessons had come more easily, but believing that you will heal, I am glad for what you learned.

There really is more that that, a whole other world with lots of happiness, and memories yet to be made.

I know you have lots of happy times too - here's to more of them, more often.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SS

I still havn't been to SYMC and really looked around. Went once and started but got interrupted - went back, crashed. Story of my life.

Sounds like my life... but you know, five minutes or fifteen minutes can make a huge difference. (Yes, I know, too much FLYLady in my cake again...)

...others give the standard answers - and it is hard to get their attention.

Hi, how are you?
Fine, and you?

Can I help you?
No thanks, just looking.

Next time someone asks me if they can help me, I may just look them in the eyes and ask whether they know of a good place to refinish a sofa... or fun sunshine on a rainy day.

I tend to think it is good to listen, good to look into the heart. Relationships - be it friendship, or love, is based on knowing the other person cares about us.

Yes... cares about us, and does not harm us. Those are tough to do sometimes.

I know you still get frustrated becasuse there are many that can't, or don't resopond to you when you "talk to their soul, and not to their ears."

Well, yes, I do rant sometimes. And then I come back to myself and remember my own inability to listen, my own inability to pay attention. All we can do is plant the seeds.

I am having a hard time speaking to the rest of your comment. There is a lot of pain there still, and I was thinking it was mostly gone.

I think of this time as a swamp. A deep, hot, stagnant swamp. There is slow movement. If you watch, the water is not perfectly still. It just moves very, very slowly.

And underneath that still water, there are stumps and snags and quagmires... and monsters.

Moving through the swap is a slow thing. When I find a stump or a monster, it's a slow thing to flow around or through it. It happens, but it's slow.

Just the other day, one of the monsters rose to the surface. The question of a friend who I would like to see again -- who I promised WP I would not see. Do I break my promise? Do I not? Do I contact WP and ask her if she will renegotiate?

I chose the latter. It's been hard, working through and around this tangle. There are many other tangles attached to it ... and if I struggle much, the tangle can awaken like the trees in the forests of Middle Earth.

Friends can only help so much, and we need to do much (most) of the work ourselves over time. I believe you will do it well, just like I believe Kily will. I wish I had time to sit and think and type more, but I have already promised the next block of time to other things, and other people.

These days, I consider the quiet of my life stretching out before me. A quiet in which I take naps and spend time with my daughter, in which there is little else of note in my world. I'm okay with that quiet, though once I expected something a little more grandiose. These days, the swamp takes the energy out of me and I simply want to rest.

I learned, in the depths of my despair last year, that there's more than that.

That is one of the happiest things I have read from you lately. You learned something very important. I wish the lessons had come more easily, but believing that you will heal, I am glad for what you learned.

There really is more that that, a whole other world with lots of happiness, and memories yet to be made.

There is happiness in my life. There is, actually, a great deal of it, just as you said. It's simply a muted happiness. It's a warm day when you have a slight headache -- a cheerful smile when your feet hurt. Anne of Green Gables never smiled a fully happy smile again after her first child died. Some days, I think maybe that's the smile on my face. A smile that has seen what sorrow lies in the hearts of all.

And then, usually, I think I'm being just a wee bit pretentious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

a WEE BIT???

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am leaving on a trip in a few minutes. Wanted to say hi, and tell you I am not ignoring you.

Been thinking again, and I think you are a fine person - for what it's worth.

Not, finished perhaps, but willing to travel the road........and that's kind of where I hope I am.

The words won't come right now, I should probably just close.

See you later.

SS

I am thinking about you - I don't think you need anything right now.

Could be I just haven't been in touch - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Can you sustain your same rate of growth, or improvement, or time travel?????

What should we call it?

I would guess from the feelings I get reading your last few posts (all around the boards) that you are spending time helping others - it tends to help us as much as we help the others.

Hope you are having lots of fun with DD this summer. In fact, I have lots of hopes for you, and you are in my prayers often. I pray for the best possible outcome for you, I pray that you will continue to find truth, that it will set you free. I pray for your happiness.

Hope you smile when you read this, hope you have lots of happy summer days. Hope THIS is one.

SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hum. Still Seeking, how is it that I missed your posts? I'm very sorry about that. The short answer is that I am well -- and that most of my story is now over on the SYMC board, rather than here. There are various updates there; here's a link to it. Only one day in the last while when I've really been upset. All in all, my life isn't much about upsets at this point. I'm glad you're well and that your grandkids continue to make you smile.

That said, I am cross-posting one thing tonight so that I can get as wide a response as I can. Perhaps it would be wiser to start a new thread for that, though. In fact, I think I will.

How did you miss it?

You are a busy girl, and I think you spend most of your time helping others on SYMC. I don't worry about it, I know who you are, and I know you care about people.

I have been gone a lot to trade shows the last little while, haven't been on much myself.

Did you get the help you wanted on your other thread? It looks like most of the replies weren't exactly on topic.

I will follow your link sometime in the next few days, and see how you are doing.

Did you acomplish what you wanted to acomplish this summer? I mean inside, not outside.

SS

<small>[ August 24, 2004, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>