Termi said...: "Some people don't need to. They get "dressed" in an authentic self unconsciously, by parents and others who provide a source of reliable love."

You said a mouth full here.

My entire life, I have been aware of the beautiful love that I was blessed with by my parents and extended family. We were not "dysfunctional". (a term I am not sure I actually believe in) My family was ordinary, but also exraordinary. We really like each other. I always felt loved. I did not always get my way. I always knew I could count on my family. Here is my growing up mind-set .... Family = safe haven <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It is easy for me to feel real. I grew up around real people.

Thanks for reminding me.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Terminator....

Did your relationship with your "higher power" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> sort-of sneak up on you ... like it did me?

I was a faith-resistant person almost my entire young adult life. My faith did not come about as a result of my "seeking" .... as much as it did by my being open to a "gift" that was offered. More like a ~letting go~ my efforts of resistance than a ~finding~ the answer to my questions.

Does that resonate in anyway with your truth?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Let me think on this...I guess you could say it "snuck up" more than it was a "lightning bolt from heaven" experience.

I did not attend church as a youngster and was married in a civil ceremony. The kids went to the preschool at a local church, and I started attending there (through talking to the director, other moms, etc.), and fell into the habit. The real connection with Bible stories came through teaching 3-year-old Sunday school. The thing that struck me (after a few years of teaching the same stories and noticing I got something more out of them each time) was how durable those stories were--a 3-year old can get some very basic core things, but there is intricacy beyond that--levels of depth that make the stories powerful for adults. Now, that's writing!! (I wish I could write like that.) See Bruce Feiler's book _Walking_the_Bible_ for a great discussion on the power of the stories, if you're interested.

I believe in the God of the Bible. <Insert Apostles Creed here>. That's a continual learning process, the real journey. Faith picked up momentum and depth (like a river) at certain junctures in my life, the affair one of them. And I'll tell you something: it has never let me down. Never. And I have had a lot of people and things let me down in life...

That "reliable source of love" that grows an authentic self (my theory anyway)...that was lacking for my mom in her life, and by extension for me, from her. But again, I have seen for myself how even that can be mended (and there's a lot of destruction that has not been, for others in my family). So for me right now, and maybe always, the kind of love I am most interested in learning about and talking about and experiencing is that "love that passes all understanding". Not to say that I believe marriage, or love between man and woman unimportant or unrelated (see ForeverHers' manifesto in dustkitty's footer).

I will never forget something the pastor at the church said, when I joined that church, about sin: basically that people say it's cursing, drinking, breaking the commandments...and while it's true that you should not be doing those things, sin really has to do with

where you place your trust.

Now that's big...Trusting in God vs. not has had such huge implications for my conduct. It is when I have gone off and done things for myself, on my own, because I wanted, needed, or "deserved" something...then things went bad. (Really bad!!!) I slip up now and again, but much less often than in the past. There is meaning for me in every single word of the liturgy--it's not just "going through the motions" on Sunday morning. (At first, it was, I think it is for everyone, but you have to put time into seeing the meaning.)

It's made me content (but not complacent). To know that you have all you need is a wonderful place to be, and there was no other way I could have got here. I've tried everything else...some things just cannot be resolved intellectually. (I loved your phrase "emotional stamina" on the other thread about the long-distance relationship.)

I also relate well with people from AA traditions. Recovering alcoholics/addicts are the coolest people. They can spot denial at fifty paces...they tell it like it is, from the heart, because they've faced hard truths. (I got more out of my mom's treatment than she did, for certain.)

<small>[ August 31, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: terminator ]</small>

Thanks for sharing.

We have common themes in some ways.

Pep

I think so too--I really enjoy your posts--good writing reflects clear thinking.

Especially the "Al-Anon moment" phrase...I related to that. Because of what you and a cyber-friend have written I am considering going to Al-Anon.

Humor:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Some people don't need to. They get "dressed" in an authentic self unconsciously, by parents and others who provide a source of reliable love." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you see "As Good as It Gets?" The Jack Nicholson character talked about these people as having had normal (as opposed to dysfunctional) upbringings, lives with

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"boats and friends and noodle salad" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I loved that movie. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Great film. Casting was perfect. Writing was .... the best.

Acting was ... well, the acting was Academy Award winning.

.... enjoying my noodle salad today .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
Humor: [QUOTE] They get "dressed" in an authentic self unconsciously, by parents and others who provide a source of reliable love." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never ask the question "Does this Authentic Self make my butt look big?"

Sorry, just got back in town and it was better than writin' "Bump" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, kitty, it was better than 'bump'.

Did you read that link? It gives a good picture of how dynamics are formed from childhood to adult life.

Hope your weekend was good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
<strong>Yes, kitty, it was better than 'bump'.

Did you read that link? It gives a good picture of how dynamics are formed from childhood to adult life.

Hope your weekend was good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh Termmie, and Monsignor Pep <bending, kissing ring>...alas much
contemplation this weekend. I started with as early as my weaning, or perhaps "conception", when two teenage gonads joined under the blessings of maritial union, (in a trailer, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) to form the "dust-embryo " in the womb of a teenager who had been given nothing but sorgrum, grits and cultic legalism from her family of "origin",... to nuture my tiny organism. (Boy howdy was I cute! I did "do" the "rescue" of my former self, I've never seen a multi-celled archegonium with so much personality! Cuddled her up, for such awhile!...nice!)

I'm kinda at the point where my "mother" is laboring to deliver me...the chosen "son"... under mucho opiates (is'sa late '50s, drugs were "in", we all gave a "high five" to this concept when we heard Pink Floyd for the first time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ),...

As my father waits squeezing mutiple pustules in the waiting room restroom, (Gosh, he looks like my sons!...are they procreating at age 18?, hummm, better ask at breakfast tomorrow?)

As I picture this, mom and dad seem to be kids.
Similar to the children I find floating around in our pool. How in the hell, were they allowed to "beget", they shoulda been studying for the SAT's? So instead of a letter of acceptance into the college of their choice, they get a blonde bouncing dust-baby?

So, I'm glad to check in here, and see the discussion on what they selected as the "layette",...I was given to be my "authentic couture"...and why they mighta been inflamed when I ditched the duds for Levi's.

But more on the weaning!

You both know I am leading up to something, right?

Yes, and I am awaiting it with interest!!

I so like hearing about/discussing people's recovery when they are "getting it" and really digging in.

As I said before, maybe in different words, the journey into self is NEVER wasted. Good on yer for doing this.

You should know that because of this thread, I have ordered the book, per Pep, and am scoping Al-Anon meetings...because I think I too am on the verge of an Al-Anon moment. Also I am going to write a short story (this is a real return to authentic self!!) I'll start it on my vacation...there was no time to take one while the kids were out of school, so off I go on another solo journey.

Ok, ladies let's skip over my embryo recovery ponderings and live in real time, just for the evening? Tonight the DustDawg visits the Therapist. Heck, he's mighty confused as to why. He's been the "good dog" for so long, knows all the tricks...rollover and forget...set up and beg for forgiveness...and fetch the dustkitty a pretty new squirrel.

He still contends it was "nothing" to him. But, he doesn't do the "speak" command, and I have these questions.

Here is what I wrote him and the Therapist as to what I want. Critique it. Yes, it doesn't sound like how I write here, (NO BIG WORDS)...the DD isn't into that touchy-feelie stuff. Belly scratches and warmed Kibble make him happy. Alas, that may be a bigger factor than I ever imagined.

Here's the big question.

I need to know if you were happier with a different type of person than me.

Let me explain.

(Dustdawg), you are not a talker. Not a person that shares your feelings often. Even now when I have said it is vital for me know what you are thinking you can’t seem to reach in and verbalize your thoughts.

So at some point, at one time…you did. Somehow this person made you feel comfortable enough for you to open up and at last, be yourself? I know this openness must have happened because you can’t convey your availability to someone who is female without the essential emotional attachment they would need.

You have said that this thing you did was so out of character for you. Maybe it wasn’t. Maybe for the first time you really became yourself, felt comfortable with yourself. Shared and was content. The misery for you was not the pretense, but thinking about coming back to living with me, and my perplexing personality.

I will never be able to fully accept that it was “job pressure”, because you have so many other ways to distract yourself, woodworking, drinking, anything. Is what happened the result of finding who you really are through a person who was able to make you feel like yourself?

You shared with (Therapist) before that you kept having a dream that your ladder was resting on the wrong wall. We thought that the “wall” was your struggles at work. Maybe the wall was me. I am the wrong wall?

Often I have talked about my feelings and I know that you have not understood them. And I know you have many misconceptions about me, even after all these years. Maybe I am too complex for your liking and you feel sad that we are not as emotionally compatible as you found her to be?

I guess I just don’t want you to pretend the rest of your life that I am a good “enough” mate for you. That it is too hard to change partners now, and you are here because of obligation. Or History. Or worst yet….because you think I am too “crazy” to leave.

And I can’t spend the rest of my life knowing that there is some aspect to my natural personality that is so repugnant to you that you could share and sleep with someone else. I also can’t fake trying to be something I am not. I seldom see you take any joy in the things I like about myself. That’s not good for either of us.

I can accept if you do realize that who we are together is not your ideal relationship. I don’t want you to feel you are just treading water, because this will eventually make you sad and depressed, as you get older. It has made me very sad and very depressed. You have a lot of life left and you could be happy. I love you and want you to be honest with me, and most of all yourself.

(Therapist) is going to tell you that this is typical for me to want to know the causes of your actions. This is what we need to talk about, even if you admit to things that are hurtful, as long as they are honest. I would rather be hurt than live with not knowing what in my life is a lie. That takes away my sense of self.

PS, I am not crazy, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I just see nuances in life that the DD does not.

kitty,

Critique this? I wouldn't change a word, it all sounds like your truth to me. But make this the first and foremost part--this is so important, this is pivotal:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I seldom see you take any joy in the things I like about myself. That’s not good for either of us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
[QB]
Critique this? I wouldn't change a word, it all sounds like your truth to me. But make this the first and foremost part--this is so important, this is pivotal:</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hell yes, you found the squirrel! This is why I have been an introspection junkie. This thought hurt me more than all the "masturbating into someone else" he did. In dawg talk: What I am is not who he likes

Kinda outgrowing your usefulness, a pivotal
phrase here?

I can be the lover, I can be the helpmate in the domestic sense...but damn it, why not have him wag his tail when I do the "kittybabble". Like I have said in earlier posts...vocationally I am seen as "assertive and thinking outside the box"...in the Dusthouse I am seen as "a bulldog that thinks too much".

Sadly, that is the conversation that proved the "come-on" for the OP... (aside from his then Massive W-2)... Something terribly original like "she don't understand me". When really it was he never tries to understand me, and I was sad about it.

Hey, I'll share what the Therapist gleans, if the DD is not a mad-dog when he comes home?
Darn, wish I didn't like him so much, I know who he is, often times, and still want to pet him?

This really will inform the therapy: you want someone who can take joy in the things you like about yourself. You have concrete, tangible things you like about him.

Be patient. I think you'll get the answers one way or another. Hope your (his?) therapist is the right one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
<strong> Hope your (his?) therapist is the right one.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me amuse you with a "Therapist" story.

Five years ago when the DD confessed to this "friendship" and shattered a world that I had built on "ought to-z" and "should do-z". I sought therapy. Wearing the big "C" for Christian, I called the glossy Christian Therapy center. This place had to be good, it was architecturally modeled after the Emerald City.

I had worked vocationally with many of the "Therapists" (oh, not all that glitters has a degree befitting that title!)...and they seemed to be using all the sanctioned source materials. Since I knew that we needed a cord of three, God, DD and me...I had to have "Christian" Therapists! I admitted who I was and was told a 6 week wait was in order. I offered the information that I had tried to wrap my Swedish sports car around a telephone pole in anguish last night and could I speak to someone sooner?

I offered CASH!

At my appointment the next day, I was given Kleenex and a listening ear. I walked out wishing I had spent the time with a friend sporting both ears, and a cocktail napkin would have been more absorbent. I quickly squelched that thought, as a tool of Satan and went home and asked the DD to give therapy the ol'college try.

He called and was given an appointment with someone who was still writing his name on the generic business cards. DD faithfully went to his appointments and remorsefully lied through his teeth. The pseudo-therapist requested talking to us together.

Feeling that we must be making progress as our insurance was being billed, I complied. This was going to be the turning point evening when the Holy Spirit was going to convict us all and we would walk hand and hand back to spirtitual maturity!

When I faced the pseudo-therapist, and engaged in bonding chit-chat I found he was on his third career move. He expounded on his love of "truth", then leaned over the desk and let me have it!

"Dustkitty! I have counseled men in the 6 weeks I have been in the marriage ministry that have committed far greater sins than this poor dawg. Some men have *slept* with other women, and here you are being so self righteous, as to hurt this poor brother who refrained from the sin of fornikkkation! Forgive Forgive!"

I looked at him with wide-eyed awe at his Biblical wisdon and asked. "Brother Marcus, does not the Good Book say that even lusting after a woman is indeed sin?"

He spewed forth that this was not the case. He could see real love pouring forth from the heart of the DD, and I should bound the notions of Satan and cleave unto my husband.

I again asked him if lust was not an issue? He said that lust can be squelched with God's power!

Till this day I wish I had gone around his desk and took his hand and placed it on my pretty darn perfect breasts and said, "Let's go 'round back of this Emerald City and squelch some lust."

Instead I got up and went out to the still intact Swedish Sportscar and thought "what a crock of horse manure".

I just went on with my life. Not ever doubting the fact that the Holy Spirit is alive in me, just knowing He isn't on that Christian Ministry's payroll.

So, why try again? This time I asked the Holy Spirit..."hey who's gonna help?"...gotta a great guy who is Jung and handsome. Okay he is Jung and almost 60. Well versed on spiritual matters and has a broad based knowledge of all venues of psychology. And he laughs at my jokes.

I've looked at his bookshelf...no "Pigs in the Parlor", No Rebecca Brown...no voo-doo. Good stuff. I've tried to pi$$ him off to no avail. It is helping me.

The DD sits in his office at this very moment. Alas, he never opened the envelope I gave him with the statement from the above post. Watched ESPN instead.

interesting ..... (said with an Eastern European accent)

I am authentically pooped.

I took days off to do some stuff around the house. I preped a bathroom so it could be painted today. And I painted the first base coat. I am going to "rag on" a glaze coat tomorrow.

I feel like a walking zombie..... tired tired tired

Poop <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

dustkitty,

I am amused, all right. You should be writing a book instead of writing here.

Hope all goes well with DD's session, be patient. That he went at all is hopeful (even "lying remorsefully through his teeth").

Termmmie, been doing some "processing" and want to tap it out for your input on compromise or adaption of authenticity as a result of the therapy session...but haven't seen you post in a few days. Are you still around to lend an ear?

Guess, I just don't want to pitch into cyber-space without a catcher...you still at the ballpark? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yep, I still check in now and then.

So, post away and I'll post back. I still have not received my copy of Pep's highly-recommended book, though.