blah,

I can't believe you started a pity party and didn't send out invitations. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What is this letter supposed to represent? It is certainly not a NC letter. No where does it say "Do not contact me any further nor will I be contacting you." In fact you are practically DARING her to call you...or should I say begging.

It's completely ridiculous that you are scolding her for lying and cheating when this is exactly what you were doing to wangi. Why the double standard? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will be strong and independent and live my dreams. You will not be a part of these anymore, too bad for you. You will not get to experience anything I wished for you and me. It is your loss, not mine. I am not losing anything in someone who wants to keep me on the outside of her life, and use me when she can make a little time for me. Where is your sense of respect for others? For once in my life since I met you, I am not afraid of the future, because I am choosing to be loved, and respected, and appreciated...not thrown aside, and put at a distance, and made empty promises to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, be honest blah...did you copy this from a letter wangi sent to you? They sure could be her words. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want REAL people in my life who are not afraid to invite me to their home and trust me enough to be a part of their lives...not just treat me like some sex object that they can use from time to time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is something that you already had but chose to discard. Her name was wangi. Once again, this is all about YOU and what YOU want. When are you going to get over yourself and come to realize that the world does not revolve around blah? You are just too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ba109

H-E-L-L-O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Let's calm down, many are hurt here. That email
was not an NC letter at all but it was to Blah.
He needs to get his anger etc out. Let him BE.

I know{{{this}}}much I won't let myself to be in the game all over. Blah is probably hurt that he was not the "chosen" one he needs to feel that the
A is wrong no matter how much he felt he is in love w/LT(living thing)He needs to see/feel/know that LT's job is not to love others but herself;
he will know it all somehow someday,just not yet,
not now.

The LT still share her home/girls/life with Bob & still talking/emailing Blah, Blah said they only met once so far.It has not changed a bit except it
is "out in the open"..so let him BE.

Red Hat:The suggested NC never worked as it was sent too many times(it has lost its meaning)

Aloha nui loa for all mana'o maoli (true & real thoughts)truly appreciate all your efforts,for now,just let Blah be,he will come around?! Mahalo.

Wangi

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: wangi ]</small>

wangi,

Per your request, I will let blah be. It would help though if he did not post so absurdly. When he posts here he should expect responses.

Maybe he would be better served to keep a journal. He could vent all he wanted to with pencil and paper.

He needs some serious counceling I'm afraid.

Good luck to you both.

ba109

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ba109:
<strong>wangi, Per your request, I will let blah be.
ba109</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oops my request <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ? I just felt that he wanted to let his anger out to express his hurt, but that email is a mistake(to me)& had asked for
more trouble.LT's bf Bob had called me & said he want to speak to Blah to hear from Blah that it is over if Blah did not call,he will visit him at work. LT lied to Bob that Blah said Bob made deadly threat and LT was just trying to "sort" things out etc etc..LT said it was all over with Blah except Blah won't leave her alone.Again,this is the beginning of new troubles. Not an NC letter
but a MT(more troubles)

What can I do? I do not know..craziness must end.
Not going to be a part of the trio. I told Bob that I do not want anything to do with them and he must not speak to me anymore. I hope he can respect that.

All the responses are reasonable and everyone can speak their minds,can't agree on all,take it or leave it,let him BE is just to get pass that on his own,Blah was venting,and it was his choice to have an affair & got hurt by it..only he can help himself & feel good/bad himself. Let him BE..just like let go and let God. I can only be there for him to help him any "other" way I can,just not the mess of the A.

Mahalo nui loa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dear Joe.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You said; "I will be strong and independent and live my dreams." .... *bravo* ! That's a goal you can put on your mirror and try to live up to that goal every day.

You are speaking as a betrayed person here when you say: "It is more hurtful when the one you loved is the one who betrayed you, like Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss." ....I wonder if you can (at least a little) understand how Wangi feels? Wangi was betrayed by her husband, the man who vowed before God to keep himself unto her.

You, on the other hand, were betrayed by a co-adulteror. You loved a woman outside God's laws ... and you're blaming your co-adulteror for your hurt? You caused this hurt Blah ... you broke God's laws willfully .... you are the Judas in your relationship with Jesus. You betrayed your relationship with God. And it hurts.


You also wrote : "Where is your sense of respect for others?" Where is yours Blah? Where is your sense of respect for your relationship with Jesus? Do you spit on Wangi and your marriage vows to HER ... and then even imagine you have not spit on God too? You made a promise to God, and you broke it.

Point your finger back at yourself.

You are the betrayer.

You betrayed Jesus when you became an adulteror.

You showed no respect before God's laws and no respect for the pain your adultery inflicted on others. including your Dearest Uncle Earl. YOU betrayed Earl .... OW did not.

Pray for forgiveness Blah ... and quit wasting your time blaming someone else for your sins.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Blah,

When you get a chance, call the house. H would like to speak with you. Of course it is your choice. It is not a scolding session (we are not your parents - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). But we care. What you are going through are tough withdrawals. Like the way you threw away your degree and now have to pick up the pieces on that again, there are other aspects of your life you are running through the same course. Do you see it? Do you want to go there again?

Do you want the OW to tell you why? She can. She won't because until she does to your satisfaction, she knows she can reel you in and then blame you for pursuing her. So she will be coy for now.

Unless you want to live the rest of your life as a sucker, someone's boy toy, a man without a family, etc., you have to move forward yourself. It will be hard, the craving will be severe at times but temporary. You can survive this. Don't continue to inflict more pain and stretch out the recovery time. If you do so, you may not make it. It will break your spirit much worse than you feel now.

You live in a big city, take a look at those broken men walking the street without a family. Not all were that bad off. Some of them have or had loving families but they choose to abandon them. In our city there was a man whose children found him (he was homeless) a few months before he died. He had been away from his family for about 20 years. He regretted not seeing his family grow. His sick mind kept him out there in the cold and wet streets. He died with his family around him but his time of real enjoyment was just a few months. At the end he really struggled to survive but it didn't last long. That story really hit me hard. I know the area he lived in since it was near where I used to work in the downtown area. I saw his picture and that of his son, I will never forget the feeling. His eyes and that of his son told the whole story.

L.

Hopeless4future,
What is your payoff for laughing at my problems? Do you have an inferiority complex and you need to belittle others who are moving through their own pains in life so that you can feel a little more secure? Why don't you go make a mockery of someone else's problems, you are not welcome to do so with me. Seems to me you are the childish one who needs to act like an adult. Why don't you grow up, you don't seem so "together" to me at all, I stay away from zealots like you.

Blah .... Hope survived her parent's mental illnesses, their abuse, their drug use, and their suicides ..... Hope survived her own affair that forced her marriage to the brink of divorce ....

Actually, she has taught me so much ..... and "hope" is one of the things Hope has taught me. She has seen the darkest of times and has powered her way toward the light.

You might want to rethink your stand.

Pep

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

pepper,
no i dont want to reconsider, but thanks for not being unkind.

I'm not laughing at your problems, I'm laughing at the hypocrasy of your self pity. As I've said, I do not feel sorry for you. I do care, but I'm not sympathetic. Because I lived for years with a man who decided that it was ok to spend his life thinking like you are right now. And it didn't matter that those around him, namely me, suffered because of his attitude and sickness. "Poor me" killed my father and took much of my childhood. So you'll have to excuse me if I'm just a touch bitter on occasion to that attitude. But don't misunderstand...I'd love nothing more than to see you decide to take another path. Believe me, I'd support and admire that decision.

Wangi, how are you doing?

Blah .... where is your charity?

Pep

Inherent in every problem or challenge is its solution. Our greatest lesson in life may be to keep it simple, to know that no problem stands in our way because no solution eludes a quiet, expectant mind.~quotes from Each Day A New Beginning.

Anyway, H4F I feel bad of Blah's respond to you,I do not know what to say,I guess I can only say he is just "out",sometimes he said the most
unbelieveable thing but then again,I tried to forgive him(of course usually after I yelled at his foolishness & unwilling to face the TRUTH)even this morning,he fought about if LT change,he would forgive her..? Yet,he would not forgive me about that one time I asked of divorce etc,he held all the resentments on the past against me,he was all willing to forgive the LT that lied to him for almost 2 years & all unhappy about Bob is with her etc..he is NOT thinking,he can't think,he gets so depressed,he said to me he never hated anyone like he is to her(then again giving me the feeling he hopes to see something happen in his A with LT?)All so confusing,he listens,he
does not,he is up & down,he had a deadly threat that he seems to ignore,he & Bob talked last night(perhaps because he did not want to be visited by him at work?!)LT convinced these two stupid white guys(sorry,just an expression)that Wangi made the threat. Blah believed,probably not anymore? He said to Bob that "Wangi is gold and LT is dirt"he wanted Bob to tell LT that to hurt her back?? So I can only look at all these as his way to let go of his anger,resentment,hurt,foolishness(to build a dream in his A..fantasy,at least to me,I know it is unreal & thoughtless)I feel sooooo much pain
in him,I still do not think he loves(d)her,he lied
to her as well..there was NEVER trust in his A,he lied that he had divorced me in January waiting for it to be finalized,Blah has always been suspicious of LT not knowing where she lives for
1.5 year,all words no actions..hence divorce was never filed.LT wouldn't push for her intention was just to play him for a fool,LT would not wait for him to be successful(her constant reason of not telling Blah the truth about Bob,and Blah is still married too,or her girls to be the reason of her lies...we all know why)Bob IS her financial
institution,at least LT knows Bob will not cheat on her whereas she can not be sured if Blah would cheat on her since Blah cheats on me,it is OK for LT to cheat but not to be cheated on. Same goes for Blah,he is angry for he was being fooled..
that is all I can SEE where his hurt come from,
Blah believed he really love her,all I see was the lust no love,he can deny all he wants,someday when he finds the most treasured he had lost over himself,hishonesty,morality,goodness,honors,faithfulness,respectfulness..then he will laugh at himself for being fooled by a cunning breathing b****. NOW, he can not see anything the way "it should be". Just let him BE.

I know the Joe that I married to though he has changed but I still love him. I would NOT forsake
him NOW after waited for so long,it is tough to even speak or hear what he has to say,but I know I am ALL he has now. I asked him this morning to think of what the A has brought & WHAT has become of him? I also gave him my "opinion" the A has brought him down,never mind the Lust,that was the ONLY good part of his A..he has become a cheater,
liar,irresponsible at work(for instance he took a 2-hour lunch...)spending money unnecessary.Believe
me,he WAS a good man,yes I had ignored his needs
but it is NEVER right to have any A. He is where he is now...he needs to let go all his anger and really start to forgive. Without forgiveness to himself he can not forgive others. I can only do {{{{so}}}}much..I am no angel but definitely not an evil. It is sad but I do not want to continue to BE sad. I am lucky that I have many who truly love and care for me therefore it is hard for any of them to see me hanging and waiting around to want the broken M. I can only be willing..you can tell that I am really tired esp. these two weeks.
Even the ugly truth can not help him out and who can? Only he himself. So,let him BE.

I am just venting since being asked "how are you doing Wangi"

Orchid,sorry that I did not call back,just did not feel like talking but I will call or email you OK..you can know where thing stand by reading the post? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am stupid to want this man,ya? For better for worse,for richer or poorer,in health & in sickness,till death do us part..now I
value the vow more than ever( a little too late)
J went on a bumpy journey w/o me and still seeking
his way home,the road to home is windy & long..it will lead him home when he is ready. Just that we do not know if there would be ME in the empty house..I want to I do not want to,up till today,no
time for remorse just yet...(I can not expect him to do so when he is so caught up in finding the true reason why he was lied to...)I can only focus
on my work.

Aloha nui loa.

quote from Wangi

"but it is NEVER right to have any A."

think about that for a minute, and think every time you say something.

Hi lovey, It meant my past EA or your PA..whatever
just NOT right. You had wrote to me many times with the same statement. Let's have an open mind,call me if you feel I said anything against your will. OK

M

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blah34:
<strong>quote from Wangi

"but it is NEVER right to have any A."

think about that for a minute, and think every time you say something.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there any circumstance where her statement would be incorrect? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi Mel(that is my name too)before I say anything,
I am happy that you did not leave and still here supporting..keep your good smile,OK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think Blah is just upset and still struggling.We
have received prank calls respectively & he had
warned LT to stop & I'd to go further with the RO
filed against LT,didn't want to do it at first,
guess LT needs some real warning after all, God
knows how many more suckers LT fools with. Blah
needs time to go through "whatever this is" he is
dealing now on his own..he can only know his own pains and hurt not any of us can feel the way he feels for we are not Blah. He is also going thru
some tough time with his decision on his career
path & unsure of going back to school next summer,
missing all his marathon trainings of which IS his
Life and most fulfulling. He is angry he lost soo
much over a lousy A.(losing uncle Earl is the hardest,for Uncle E is his father figure)I think I can relate to his confusion/struggle. He is not eating/working out like he used to,(he has not slept since the A began)his A has brought him downer/lower..I am not trying to protect him here(or maybe I am)I think no one knows him better than I do,he IS indeed a very nice man (just f-up,for now)I can not abadon him,can I? Rather I do not want to abadon him...I live with my own honor,as a wife,even as a BW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Life is not a bed of roses,is it? C'est la vie.
Wangi

Wangi,

We are finally home tonight. Had to participate in son's international night at school. He had a nice reading and told where his family came from.

I would like to tell you that right now, Blah may not appreciate your help regardless of your good intentions. At least not all of it. I see small progress on his part. But your words right now may irritate more than help. Listen, right now you need to pinch yourself and let him be. Trust me. It is coming from someone who has been there done that and then some. In our case, I had to talk less and just watch. Learn the look, talk to the wall, hummmmmm and just not say much. I learned to talk softer. He had to strain to hear me. Awhhhhh this meant he had to extend himself and work to hear what I had to say. That made it stick in his brain more. So the less I did, the more he remembered.

It doesn't matter if Blah read this or not. His own self will either pull him out or through this ordeal.

So for right now, pratice patience, sit back and breathe. You know where you are. Even if he gets angry, you can walk away. You don't have to have an answer for each of his thoughts, statements or arguments.

Blah,
Lthing is going to be who she wants. You decide if that is what you want in your life then live your life accordingly. But you have to live with those consquences. Your waffling will break your back, bank and bed.

Your anger should not be even at Lthing. Why? Because like you insinuated even to Wangi, no one can tell you what to do. So that must mean neither can Lthing. If that is so, then you are the one who controls your decisions.

Now the challenge is to get you back to santity so that others will not have doubt in you. If you are ok with yourself, then it doesn't matter what others think. If you are not ok with yourself, then you need to find someone or those you can trust to help you regain that trust in yourself.

Just my take, take it for what it is and no mo'.

L.

Orchid my wahine nani, mahalo nui loa for your wonderful mana'o. Say me a prayer or two, ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

'O wau iho no me ke aloha.
Wangi

Ok Wangi, for the sake of our 'hauli' crowd, U wanna translate? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

'Ae, Orchid...my apologies,see bracket/bold with translation..oops

Originally posted by wangi:
Orchid my wahine nani ,(Orchid, my beautiful lady) mahalo nui loa for your wonderful mana'o (Thank you very much for your wonderful thoughts) Say me a prayer or two, ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> 'O wau iho no me ke aloha.(I remain,with the very best regards)

I feel so much better when I can express with much Aloha spirit esp.with the language,sorry,got carried away...

I am doing all right..hanging in there,sit steady on the boat..row row row...life is but a dream. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks guys