Please share your perspectives on what is going on here and how I should react to my FWH.

He MOVES BACK AND FORTH between expressing his guilt over the A and expressing resentment over the mistakes that I made in the marriage. When in the REPENTANT MODE , he says stuff like "I just can't believe what I did"; "I can't believe I was with that crazy girl", "I was really out there", etc. He openly questions why he couldn't resist temptation and talks about "evil forces" coming at him. On the other hand, he goes into the ANGRY, BLAMING MODE , expressing his resentment over the needs that I was not meeting before the A. He can go on a rant about how I NEVER cooked or whatever, exaggerating the truth. Is he doing this to relieve himself of the pain that he is feeling?

Also, I asked him the questions of: DO YOU MISS HER? and HOW DID YOU FEEL IN THE AFFAIR? He was opening up a lot on Saturday and seemed to want to talk to me. He said he did not miss HER but does miss the FEELING that the A gave him. The feeling was BEING NO. 1 in her life. I think it was really being the only person in her life. He knows now though that she was just "PRETENDING" , he says and he says he was pretending too. He wonders now if it was a scheme for money since in the end she questioned him about not helping her out more financially. They drank a lot he says towards the end.

This is the thing that gets me. I asked: How did she make him feel like #1? He particularly liked it that she would "GET RID OF AND IGNORE HER CHILD FOR HIM." He knew it was wrong and he considers her a bad mother but it felt good to him. WHY? His main issue with jme is feeling like I put the kids first. So his fantasy would be for ME to get rid of my kids. He knows that I can't do it and does not want me to do it but I think he has this as some primal fantasy of having ME all to himself and this would the true testimony of my love for him. The reason that I say this is that everything our son at home now does wrong to my H. He says that he does not want him around and is waiting for him to leave to go to college. He says that he is just counting the days. My son is really being obnoxious, disrespectful and loud. My son recognizes that I am now putting my H first which is as it should have always been and is jealous. I know my family system sounds crazy because I think sreallydoes want his F to leave again so he also can have me all to himself. SICK, I know.

I asked my H what he thought it was going to be like when he came home with teenage son here. He said the thought it would be awful but he thought he could tolerate it but it is difficult for him. As I said before, OW would farm her child out to other people and our son is going nowhere.

You see, H says that he definitely decided that he wants to be with ME but with ME ALONE without the "BAGGAGE". He knows that this is the wrong way to be but that is how he feels. What I said is to this is that is being rejecting of ME and the person that I am if he expects me to deprive and abandon our son as a testimony of my love for him. He says he only wants to deal with resolving his relationship with me.

He knows that I am upset with him about this and is trying to make up with me today in his telephone contacts. I am trying to be nice to him but am bothered by his revelations.

We did have some great times together over the weekend. H said "We're coming along, we worked on the yard together and that was fun". He wanted me to watch him and talk with him as he gardened. We also jogged. He loved all of this. I realized that I had not given this much attention in years.

What are your thoughts?

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi-

You're husband's feelings are very on par with someone coming out of the FOG.

He's trying to resolve in his own mind the how's and why's of what he's done. You've had so much time on MB sorting through it all. He's just beginning to. He needs to start exploring the Anger and pain that he was feeling that led HIM down this path. He's moving in the right direction and his wavering is a normal process. Instead of feeling threatened by it, embrace it.

Help him to explore this. As much as it will hurt, you need to be his best friend and put up with some more painful stuff in order to get through it.

My best to you-

One thought: does he realize that the fact that OW was able to dump her kids is very much connected with why the A didn't work?

She wasn't putting HIM first, she was putting HERSELF first, and the mutual selfishness is what destroyed the A. The dumping of kids was a symptom of that.

You're not like that. That's why he's with you. Maybe that will help him connect the dots.

And yes, I think the anger is to relieve his own guilt.

Maybe you could go away for a weekend together -- that way reconciliation won't be in son's face? Maybe it would give son a break, too. And you could, at least for a spell, fulfill H's fantasy of having you alone.

Good point, AM, about the selfishness of the OW.
He's called her selfish, even narcissistic. I will remind him of that when he is thinking positively about her. It's clear that the longer that he stays away from her, the better. It will be a month on Friday and she told him that he would not be able to last a month without her. She seems to have known the power that she had over him.

Kily:

Thanks for encouraging me to embrace what's going on. I've been wanting to give up. Staying focused on being his friend has helped today. He seems to continue to appreciate the phone conversations, staying connected throughout the day. In regards to letting go of the anger and resentment about the past, I suggested that we take up hiking. He seemed to think it was a good idea but then said "That hurts my feelings that you are realizing this now when you wouldn't take a simple walk with me in the neighborhood". Rather than getting defensive, I continued with the conversation. He was allowed to vent and then we carried on with planning hikes in the future. The point is that we are talking and that is good. I've been trying to encourage him to communicate with me because I don't believe he told me in the past how important events like taking a walk are to him. Of course, I should have noticed if he kept asking me to go with him. I really don't remember him doing that though.

mimi, it sounds like things may still be a bit foggy. Recovery is going to be a long, difficult process but you seem to be doing well. IMHO you may need to back away from the R talk for a while longer.
My advice would be to basically ignore the talk about the son. H knew son would be there when he came home,and you being a good mother is one of the things that sets you apart from OW.
Not to be negative, but red flags should go up when H says he doesn't miss HER but misses the FEELING the A gave him. That's a bit like saying you don't miss the alcohol just the buzz you got from it.
Getting away together, just the two of you, sounds like a great idea if it can be arranged. In SAA it is said that some of the best recoveries involve couples who can be together almost twenty-four hours a day during withdrawl. An extended vacation or successive weekend getaways are recommended.

23:

Tell me more about the RED FLAGS you were referring to in your post.

Once you get addicted to alcohol, isn't it true that you are just needing to keep the buzz going even though you know drinking is bad for you?

Seems like the consensus here is more time alone. Less R talk.

I'll be off next week for two weeks. That should be great since H is self-employed and makes his own hours.

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Hi Mimi-

Me again-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He seemed to think it was a good idea but then said "That hurts my feelings that you are realizing this now when you wouldn't take a simple walk with me in the neighborhood". Rather than getting defensive, I continued with the conversation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wanted to throw this out to you...the next time he makes a comment like this, stop. Don't continue the conversation and blow it by. Try saying the following:

H, you're right. I didn't see how important this was to you in the past. I'm sorry. The reason that I want to do this now is because I realized while you were gone that this was something that did hurt you. If it's okay, I'd like to do this for us...as part of our new start.

The reason for this is to let him know that you validate his pain and that you've learned to listen. It helps him let go of his resentment and allows him to build trust towards you.

Two things. First one is WS's try to do guilt tranference. It's part of the phase they go through and don't like themselves. So they try to place blame elsewhere!
Don't allow that! He had choices besides adultery.
Secondly, now that children are teenagers, it's time to truly set aside quality time alone with H. Stop the demands of kids having you run them constantly to this and that if this is what's going on there.
Kids can be involved in a lot of activities and if you allow it, they will suck the life out of you! LOL I Know. You have to split it up.
You can't attend every event they have, drive them everywhere and make the world revolve around them anymore!
Handbook to happiness is a great book. I'm sorry about not remembering Author but I think it's Dobson.
Puts your life in perspective and where it should be in attentions given.
First is Christ as the center!
Next is spouse.
then kids!
then the rest of the world outside those.
And yes, you can allot time for each. Make a chart and put you and H on it each week for quality time alone. Kids are not allowed to disrupt that! They are only allowed to ask or interupt you if they see blood or bone!
Parents need a life without kids all time. But the kids need to know their place and that they're loved also. I wouldn't give my kids up for anyone! They just come in where they need to be, not where they want to be!
LouLou

Mimi, I agree with the others about your H's state of mind. He is going through a normal recovery. And he probably is somewhat resentful that his needs weren't being met at home before the affair. There is probably some lingering anger in addition to a little guilt transference going on.

The part that hurts is hearing about your son. He has been through so much already and is as much in need of healing as you. Yet he has to deal with the continued rejection of his own father.

Would your H consider counseling, Mimi? What is he doing to overcome these inappropriate feelings?

Please don't let my comments disturb you, mimi. You are doing a great job, and your PlanB success and recovery are an inspiration to me. I am only suggesting that such statements from your H should remind you to stay vigilant.
Can someone addicted to alcohol think that drinking is bad for them? Yes indeed. But the addiction forces them to believe that they need the buzz and that there is no other way to get that feeling.
WSs become addicted to the feelings, even though they may realize (when the fog begins to lift) that the A was bad for them. I think that a large part of recovery is WS understanding that those feelings are not worth the consequences of the A or that those feelings can be found in the M.

I'm still at a loss as to what to do about my S. He is being unreasonable despite me allowing him to vent and negotiating with him. He insists that he wants "things like the way they were before D came home". It's clear that he wants his D to leave. He said "He's going to leave you". He is a bad spot in our lives. When I ask him to do something simple, he starts to yell and to curse even at me and then asks, "what are you going to do, throw me out?" Oppositional and defiant is what I would call him. He says he doesn't need counseling but D and I do. The past two mornings he's walked in our bathroom and used my H's cologne right in front of him as if to provoke a fight. H ignores him and insists that this won't make him leave.

H continues to be loving and accountable to me. We are having fun, jogging and working in the yard. Our S hates this as he is not used to me giving attention to my H as it should have been all along. I guess he can't recognize that it is in his best interest to have married parents.

Other thing: OW called my office again, asking my secretary if I am at work today. Is this meant to cause me to have doubts about my H?

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Call Harley's and ask what might be the best course of action regarding your S.

Teenage boys disguise hurt and fear feelings as anger. It is "safer" for them to be tough brats than cry like a baby .... which is how they feel.

He's frightened. If you ask him, he'll deny. Does he have a school counselor?

Pep

Hi mimi
I have followed your struggle over the past months. I know it's been a rough ride and still is. I have something to say about your son and the way he behave towards his dad. It seems to me that your son is testing the seriosity of dads "comeback". Your son was abandoned too - just like you were. He is probably unaware of the fact that deep inside he fear that dad will leave again - leave you and leave him. Son is trying to drive his dad away - not because he want him to leave but because he want to be assured he will stay no matter what.
If your H was able to say to you and your son "I promise I will NEVER leave you again" AND show it so that you all believed he meant it this time... I'm sure your S would calm down.
It takes time and patience to heal a broken heart and recreate trust!

I wish you all the best! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mimi, about the OW calling. I'd worry a just enough to keep checking up on where H is. But it could be her idea of trying to catch him without you so she can try to persuade him back.
Did you tell H? And ask him about it?
For me, I'd have my secretary telling her I was on extended leave! LOL
Your H is his own boss. So can you drop over on lunch, or take a visit anytime of day?
Or too far?
Obviously, your H knows when you work so why would OW have to check to see if she was meeting him? She wouldn't!
I think it's all her doing, and none of his.
How might you put the fear of God into her once and for all? Think on it.
Sorry about problems with S. It's tough on kids, And he lost respect for dad. But he has no right to try to drive your H from home again.
I would suggest some tough love reading and counseling for the son. If he refuses, you need to find out how to deal with him from a professional.
He's really trying to break your marriage up for good.
Not a good sign.
LouLou

What is going on with that OW? Was she smart enough to know what would raise my doubts about my H? Is she just letting us know that she is a presence and we can't just try to go on with our lives.

I hate this! You see, H just had to call me to ask about another route to get where he is going in order to avoid her. He is also made the call to reassure me because he can figure out the route on his own. I appreciate that.

What are your thoughts?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>.....Other thing: OW called my office again, asking my secretary if I am at work today. Is this meant to cause me to have doubts about my H?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Report this to your HR dept and check out with your local law enforcement to find out what your options are. Even though she is borderline psyco, a judge may consider this a type of stalking or something with a legal bite.

Don't minimize her actions. Don't inflate them either....it is a hard line to walk.

L.

Hey Mimi

Just checkin in....keep up the good work. You are getting lots of good advice from the good people here.

My 2c:

OW is calling to register her presence. She wants your H, but fears she is fighting a losing battle. It is a death throe.

Your S is is expressing fear that Dad will leave again. He has lost trust and is confronting his fears in a sense. If dad does leave again then he is 'right'. He wants to be proved wrong. H has to do this, but you can help prepare the ground.

Good luck

S.