I provided son the opportunity to vent yesterday and wow did he BLOW. I held him and told him that I loved him. He said that he wasn't feeling loved. I told him how much I appreciated him being there for me over the past few months. However, on the other hand, I told him how he needed to be respectful of the household. He was being obnoxious and unruly. Also, I voiced my understanding of how difficult it would be to forget and to forgive his F. He then made a miraculous turn all evening. He began to act like a normal human being, even conversing, although minimally with his D. WHEW! One small step!

I think I figured out some of what is going on with my H. Has anyone thought of the concept of deprogramming for the FWS? It seems like he is re-orienting himself back into the normal world. He even said yesterday "I am reestablishing relationships with people". The evenings after work seemed to have been particularly difficult for him. I have not asked him why but maybe that reminds him of time with her. He did not used to come home until bedtime when he was heavy into the A last year. Last night was our first normal night without uproar. We had a calm dinner, looked at a little TV, went to bed, like a normal couple. In the midst of this he asked, "She hasn't called you and bothered you again has she?" It was if he was realizing that there was some closure.

Other good stuff: He voices plans to go to both sons' football games. He is focused on consolidating all of our accounts both checking, savings and cell phone. I have access to all of the money. Steve H. said that is important.

I know that the ball can fall again today. It's a rollercoaster ride. Recovery is tough. However, it is worth it so far.

What are your thoughts about this deprogramming concept?

EXCELLENT!!!

Keep on being son's sounding board, the flood gates have opened but the river will keep flowing.

GOOD JOB MIMI!!! Son has to feel better to know you are on his side (on EVERYONES side) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not sure what you mean by reprogramming, exactly? I know it took a long time for me to work my way back in to some similance of normal...and even then...it's all different. It became a NEW normal.

It's just one of those things. Some friendships still haven't repaired...although things are slowly getting there. Plus WE'VE changed...our marriage has changed. We don't go out to the same places or with the same people we used to. We go more places as a family...and rarely go out individually.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by reprogramming though. Can you explain...or maybe someone else will.

I just remembered. People who have been in a cult have to be deprogrammed. They have been isolated and cut-off from normal society and then have a hard time adjusting to the real world.

Another thing that he has been doing along these lines is calling me throughout the day. He just called me again for the second time this morning. He goes over exactly what he is doing. It could sound bizarre, for example: "Now I'm at the cleaners, I'm taking these clothes in..I just cashed a check", etc.

I'm realizing that we will have to figure out what our new life will be like..that it will never be the same.

Lots of Work!!!! Again, well worth it, to have my H calling and checking on me. Well, the calling also seems to be his way of orienting himself.

Keep the thoughts coming.

Thanks!!!

Mimi, happy to hear the progress with son. He obviously did need to vent! All people do and he's got a wonderful mom there for him.
Of course, our situation was so different here as dad never moved out. And I think he was more concerned about me calling OW than other way around.
He just wanted to forget the whole thing as though it never happened and move forward.
Your H, on the other hand was involved more deeply so I can see him having to readjust his living, thinking and actions.
It's good he is getting involved in son's activities. Time will heal your sons as they do love both parents and with care, do rebound nicely.
As children, we always think of parents as invincible. When we learn they are only human and err, it's a shock, then a maturing with the knowledge.
How has your H taken this talk you had with son? Or have you shared it?
I hope your H can embrace son with compassion and understanding, helping to bond them again.
I have alway felt children should be respected to speak their feelings, even when negative.
From there, you can give the guidance needed to help them cope and mature in a healthy way.
BTW, don't neglect you and H having your time off away from children. Time for romance! It's healthier for both you and sons.
One last thought. Were, or are you active in a church? Some have groups for all ages dealing with family problems. There just might be a youth group for your son to allow him time with peers struggling with same issues? Just a thought.They get their feelings validated by others, so they don't feel odd man out so to speak. And can relate to each other. Usually a youth pastor for counseling them on handling these issues in a constructive way.
Blessings. LouLou

Please let me hear from you guys.

I've been assertive about the need for H to go to football game with me tonight. It seems like he is going. I'm going for sure. My S is really trying!!!

I don't want to resort to drama in order to get your attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ September 19, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Dang! I know I posted something earlier and its not here!

I asked you to give your son a big hug for me! I really feel for him. I know how hard this all must be on him. Boys are very protective of their mothers and tend to "take over" [in their minds] when the dad leaves. Mine resented any interference in that role at all. They were hostile to my now boyfriend. So, I can imagine how your son feels with your H moving back and usurping his postion!

Hope you are doing well today, Mimi!

quote:
Please let me hear from you guys.

Ok Mimi,

I am checking in. No need for my know it all comments. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You have been doing just "perfectly fine". Enjoy the moment and enjoy your night of watching your son play football while you are WITH your husband, is a great joy for ME!!!!

You have handled yourself quite well and am confident you will continue to do so...

Have a wonderful weekend as will I.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mimi - I am still so new here, I am not worthy to give you input!
But, being a woman, I will give it anyway.
I agree with what someone else said here - my high school sophmore is currently filling the roll as man of the house, and I can imagine that when/if dad moves back, son will not be anxious to step down. Both of my boys are trying to protect me. In fact, older son (who is starting offense and defense this year for his JV team!) mentioned to me the other day that although he would like Dad to come back, he doesn't want him back as the person he is right now. he doesn't like the person he is right now. I have to agree with that. Your son is sill trying to protect you.
I could never imagine trying to take my son off the football team. It would crush him.
If your H goes to the game tonight, good. enjoy. And think of me, as I sat at the game last night while WH and OW sat in the stands too. I cried the whole game. You have come along way Mimi girl.

Mimi, I think it's really necessary for dad and you to be there supporting him. Together!
Son needs to know dad still loves and shows interest in his life.
Have fun and may your son's team win! Loulou

H and I had a wonderful time at the football game. Son did well!! Waved up to us in the stands. Sounds too good to be true, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This all shows the importance of me standing firm to my convictions. I learned this assertiveness and self-confidence during my PLANS!! This is a testimony to MBs. I know I still have tough times coming but I am enjoying this win.

As I mentioned before, seems like my H is coming out of a trance. He was nervous about re-orienting himself back into the community. People came up to speak to him as if he was coming back from war. It was weird but enjoyable to me. He seems thankful that he was able to pull it off.

Today we are going away for a night together.

Very happy to hear all is on track , and yes sit back and enjoy alittle you have worked very hard and proven that the PALNS do work and pacience is very important .

The part about H being nervous , rember when he was coming back and that weekend he made plans and it took you off gaurd that it seemed to be about doing the family thing and not the only both of you thing ?

Well this getting back in the grove with family and commuinity is important . they are nervous and it is a hurdale that he should get out of the way . Its important to H the way people will treat him after what he has displayed .

Its the same as being scared to come back to your BS , they do not want to feel rejected or defined but what they did cause they now know thats not "WHO THEY ARE" it was a mistake .

Its funny cause my H asked me when he came home HOW do I be around everyone again ? What do I do to show them ?

My response was you have nothing to prove to anyone , you need not to explain to anyone .

Me and your children are the ones who live with you , all that we see and hear are really what is important . You need no one elses approval .

The more he saw that as long as I stood by him , the less nervous he was about being around anyone else . But yes it still was important to him , he wanted others to see he was sorry and that he was "BACK" .

Well following your recovery and am very happy for you .

As of today, things are continuing to go unbelivevably well.

H and I went to both of our boys' football games. Yesterday H and I took older son out to eat and to a movie. FUN!!!

I've been using Espoir's recommendations in talking about H's legacy with his sons and how they inherited their athletic prowess from him. All true but I never voiced this. This allows me to sincerely offer the ADMIRATION that he desires. I can tell that he appreciates this as he is frequently bringing it up in conversation. It also helps that male fans are commending HIM on our son's athletic success. IT'S A MAN'S WORLD!
YUK! I guess we have to face the reality of this.

Another interesting observation, indicating the realness of FOG. H is remarking on different objects in the house saying, "When did you get this?" in reference to accessories that I have had for years. He is embarassed to have not noticed. He was in ANOTHER WORLD then.

I continue to have a sense of sadness which I cannot explain. I look over at him and should be happy. I'm really with my H again. It is really HIM.

I'm taking it one day at a time.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

It sounds like it is going very well.

As for the sad feelings... mimi, when you are fighting for your M, it is like an adrenaline surge, you are literally fighting for your life- your life as you know it. When I went through that, I lost alot of weight, I had cardiac arrhythmias that I had never had before, sleep disturbances etc.

When it was all over, my H was back, I really crashed. I think there was a letdown after the surge of all the adrenaline hormones. I became very depressed, and I was grieving terribly for my lost innocence in my M and my world. I couldn't understand why I was so sad, after all, I had my H back. I think part of it was that my H was one of these proud WS- and he simply could not do certain things I needed him to do at the time I needed him to do them. We recovered anyway, but at a cost to my emotional state. Anyway, I ended up going on antiD's which did help, but in some ways I am still struggling with my own emotions.

Anyway, I hope you don't go through this reaction, but know that you may feel a "letdown" and it is something that can be worked through. The most important thing is to let your H know how he can help you with it. And also remember that time will help.

Regarding your sons, I am glad that the "legacy" tactics are helping. I think there are two sides to it- one is reinforcing your H's sense of self, and connection to his sons, by emphasizing the genetic and emotional connection. So your H can feel good about himself through his sons' accomplishments which reflect on him.

The other part is reminding your H how much his sons need him- to guide them, to love them, to accept them- even if they are adolescents hurling curses in his face at this moment! And this is where your H has an opportunity to grow. We know he is proud. But a big man, a father, can admit if he's made a mistake- and apologize. That may be something your H needs to work on. You may want to look at, and think about, H's own family of origin issues which may well be affecting him. Did H's father show love for him? Or was he a tough guy who would never show weakness? What did your H learn from his own dad that is affecting his parenting?

Mimi, you mentioned that sense of sadness and I'm reminded of something my counselor said to me. Grow a new Branch. Hence, my name here.
I had told him the feelings that so much was lost, and our marriage would never feel as it once had. That sadness is knowing or feeling the loss of that wonderful feeling of security we had, feeling our love was unique and couldn't be breached. Once it was, for me, I know it can't ever be that way again.
But as my counselor said, you grow a new branch and create a new marriage so to speak.
You're just laying the foundation right now, and can build it in any style you wish. In time, I think the sadness is replaced by a new feeling once we see the US is home, making effort to rebuild, and we can not live each day wondering if they're going to bolt again.
You've done a great job, and now you may want to ask your doctor for some meds if you start to feel unduly sad for more than few days. They really helped me get a firm hold on me again.
Blessings. LouLou

Mimi,

When your husband returned, I posted WELCOME TO RECOVERY.

Now, with the sadness, I have to say again...WELCOME TO RECOVERY.

I live with this everyday, especially since my wife still says that she doesnt have those intimate or affectionate feelings for me, and feels that she may never have them. That something was destroyed in her.

You are in the beginning of recovery. It was like going thru the hurricane last week. when it was over, and you poked your head out of the rubble, you were glad to be alive. Now, a week into it, the adrenaline has faded, the mess that has been made is now very obvious to you, and you start to realize that things being "normal" again, are going to take a long time of cleaning and rebuilding.

The A was "white knuckle time." Just hold on and wait out the storm. It was all you could do. Now, the hard work begins...for both of you. For your kids too. Make sure you both get into counseling immediately. Our recovery has been poisoned by waiting too long to do so.

Your feelings are normal. Understand that your FWH has a lot of stuff to deal with also...and some of it, he will have to do alone.

A new rollercoaster ride is about to begin...but this time you are both riding it together! As you go along, this ride will be rough in the beginning. But the experts and tohers who have been thru this have assured me that the ride gets smoother with time.

Time is the key ingredient here. We cannot substitute anything for it. So, like was said above, get some meds if you need it. Get both of you into counseling ASAP. And take one day at a time. And then two days. Then a week. Then a month.

This is what I have begun to tell myself. Each passing day that we are together and working at this is one more day to build trust, and to clean up the mess. Once we have built something and have cleaned up enough of this mess, it is my hope that it will be then that we will feel safe enough to truly get back to "normal."

Oh, and by the way...dont keep this sadness from him. He will KNOW you are sad. If you dont tell him, it will hurt him all the more. So tell him. Let him know that it isnt "buyers remorse." It is just a stage that you must go thru. That you still love him, and that everything is fine.

In His arms.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Hello, My Friends:

Tomorrow makes 3 weeks and it's going almost unbelievably well. Both my son and H are trying. I think my stamina, assertiveness, and self-esteem built up over the past several months have been the keys to success.

My H is acting more and more like himself again. We genuinely feel comfortable with each other. I almost forget what has happened.

I realize how I had gotten out of the practice of acting like a wife. It often seems almost too time-consuming and overwhelming to give him all the attention that he seems to need. Sadly, he must have relied on the OW for this attention. I used to give him a lot of attention like this many years ago before the children came along. I'm going back to doing what he liked and needed. In turn, he is meeting my needs again. Unbelievable!!

There are crazy times when he says stuff that does not make sense. I know this is when he is back into the life he had with her. I try to disregard those comments. Also, it seems that he tries to test me to see if I will turn back into the person I was before PLAN A or the person that he thought that I was. It helps to be on top of this and aware of what is going on.

MB has provided me with the techniques and the strategies.

I know we are not out of hot water but this feels real good.

Thanks for being there for me, MB Friends!!!!

MIMI,

You are doing so great!!! I know how hard it is to keep things in perspective. But, this I know, you CAN do it all. Keep fulfilling your H's EN's, and I know it will come back to you 10 fold.

You know where you were lacking in your H's EN's.

I know where I was lacking in my H's EN's. You can DO this!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And you can love your children too. Plus your H is into the sports, the boys got it from him, so this is all good.

But your H comes first. It's okay, you love your kids, but in a different way. H comes first, his EN's. And don't tell me I don't love my kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

Please share your perspectives on what is going on here and how I should react to my FWH.

He MOVES BACK AND FORTH between expressing his guilt over the A and expressing resentment over the mistakes that I made in the marriage. When in the REPENTANT MODE , he says stuff like "I just can't believe what I did"; "I can't believe I was with that crazy girl", "I was really out there", etc. He openly questions why he couldn't resist temptation and talks about "evil forces" coming at him. On the other hand, he goes into the ANGRY, BLAMING MODE , expressing his resentment over the needs that I was not meeting before the A. He can go on a rant about how I NEVER cooked or whatever, exaggerating the truth. Is he doing this to relieve himself of the pain that he is feeling?

Also, I asked him the questions of: DO YOU MISS HER? and HOW DID YOU FEEL IN THE AFFAIR? He was opening up a lot on Saturday and seemed to want to talk to me. He said he did not miss HER but does miss the FEELING that the A gave him. The feeling was BEING NO. 1 in her life. I think it was really being the only person in her life. He knows no though that she was just "PRETENDING" , he says and he says he was pretending too. He wonders now if it was a scheme for money since in the end she questioned him about not helping her out more financially. They drank a lot he says towards the end.

This is the thing that gets me. I asked: How did she make him feel like #1? He particularly liked it that she would "GET RID OF AND IGNORE HER CHILD FOR HIM." He knew it was wrong and he considers her a bad mother but it felt good to him. WHY? His main issue with jme is feeling like I put the kids first. So his fantasy would be for ME to get rid of my kids. He knows that I can't do it and does not want me to do it but I think he has this as some primal fantasy of having ME all to himself and this would the true testimony of my love for him. The reason that I say this is that everything our son at home now does wrong to my H. He says that he does not want him around and is waiting for him to leave to go to college. He says that he is just counting the days. My son is really being obnoxious, disrespectful and loud. My son recognizes that I am now putting my H first which is as it should have always been and is jealous. I know my family system sounds crazy because I think sreallydoes want his F to leave again so he also can have me all to himself. SICK, I know.

I asked my H what he thought it was going to be like when he came home with teenage son here. He said the thought it would be awful but he thought he could tolerate it but it is difficult for him. As I said before, OW would farm her child out to other people and our son is going nowhere.

You see, H says that he definitely decided that he wants to be with ME but with ME ALONE without the "BAGGAGE". He knows that this is the wrong way to be but that is how he feels. What I said is to this is that is being rejecting of ME and the person that I am if he expects me to deprive and abandon our son as a testimony of my love for him. He says he only wants to deal with resolving his relationship with me.

He knows that I am upset with him about this and is trying to make up with me today in his telephone contacts. I am trying to be nice to him but am bothered by his revelations.

We did have some great times together over the weekend. H said "We're coming along, we worked on the yard together and that was fun". He wanted me to watch him and talk with him as he gardened. We also jogged. He loved all of this. I realized that I had not given this much attention in years.

What are your thoughts?