We can say what we will, but the fact remains Georgie divorced, remarried, is still legally and morally in that marriage, and is considering remarrying her first H. This is disobedience according to the Scripture and illegal in our country. My personal feelings are just that, my feelings. As Christians, we have to constantly beat down the flesh and live according to the Word. Yes, that is hard. Yes, we have many questions. Yes, we at times become disenchanted because we want what we know is forbidden.

I relate this to my situation. My W abandoned me 6 months ago and last month filed for D. My calling as a Christian H is to contest the D petition, which I have. Yes, I'm very hurt. Yes, I cry. Yes, I'm lonely. Yes, I battle emotional turmoil. The fact remains that I am still married.

If she decides to stay separate from me forever, and if the D is not granted, I am bound to her for life. I realize this as fact and I am reconciling myself to the understanding that I will not be free to remarry. Does this hurt? You betcha!

But guess what? I am pressing in to Jesus, His Word, my support and accountability network, and staying active. And guess what else? I am at peace and I know I am in the will of God. How do I know? Because the Word says so and brings me comfort and encouragement. Do I like my circumstances? Of course not! For the first time in my life I have no choice but to lean totally on Jesus, and I am growing in my faith and ministry.

When my W comes back, if she does, our M will be strong and a light for others. If she doesn't, I will be strong and a light for others.

If I may be so bold ... when you're debating points of law from the Old Testament, your best bet is not your local pastor.

Go see a rabbi instead.

They've got two or three thousand more years of thinking about the Old Testament available to them than Christians do.

In addition, there is a HUGE body of scholarly and legal resesarch in rabbinic studies and traditions. You wanna see people tied in knots? Watch a bunch of rabbis dissect a passage eight different ways with eight different interpretations. It's amazing. For a really good view into the DAILY life of many Orthodox Jews who are studying, read _The Chosen_ by Chaim Potok. Now show me a Christian pastor who's put that much time into thinking about this stuff.

My (VERY superficial) understanding is that the Old Testament states pretty adamantly that a man can divorce his wife for just about any reason at all. "Displeasing" covers a huge amount of ground.

I have one very knowledgeable Orthodox friend who I'll ask about this. Dunno whether he'll have anything particularly useful to say, but if he does, I'll post it here.

And having said all of that, since y'all ARE Christians, that's not all the research to be done, since there's a whole additional body of stuff in the NT that you have to take into account.

Ahh, the joys of religious law...

Well ,this is true to an extent. but ask yourself a question. If Matthew 5:32 & Matthew 19:9 say that a BS can divorce their WS due to marital unfaithfulness (which it does), then how does that jive with Rmans 7:1-, which states that a woman (or man) is bound to their husband as long as he lives? Jesus would be saying then that there is an exception. That Romans 7 is wrong...that she isnt bound to her husband as long as he lives, IF marital unfaithfulness is the cause.

Romans 7 is not wrong. But My husband ended our marriage when he unrepentently committed adultery, had OC, and kept his porn addiction a secret. That means our marriage is dead. Bad company corrupts good character. You can't make someone stay who doesnt want to stay, and you can't live in a legalistic manner where you are punished your whole life because you married someone who did not want to be married.
We were not members of a church at the time so I could not practice church discipline, but the Bible never says that I had to to be divorced. If an unbeliever leaves, let him. By all accounts my ex is an unbeliever.

Mortarman, I didnt' realize someone had posted, obviously at same time I was writing today,in regards to Hosea because they're post got in frist. LOL
I'm not sure either on divorce of Hosea, I believe not though.
However, adultery is considered to break the marriage bond in the OT I believe. Would need to research, but I remember once in an online study that was brought up. And I can't find scripture now to prove it. That indeed, adultery is considered the breaking of the marriage, same as if one had divorced. yet, by law we must now produce a piece of paper decreeing it finalized!
Obviously, this is an issue that can take many turns, debates, etc.
So what is the difference if Georgie divorces H now, and marries someone else?
I think this is totally coming down to forgiveness. She can't stay married to an abuser. Or shouldn't!
I feel there is a much stronger possibility of God blessing her remarriage to her first H than someone else. But, that's an opinion that I can't back by bible verse. I'll ask someone who is very knowledgeable if there is passage on the subject.
Obviously, any Christian knows divorce is supposed to be forbidden except in extenuating circumstances spelled out clearly!
And yes, some religions do believe you are always bound to the first marriage. I once saw a young man struggle with this in terrible pain because his young wife left him and he never wanted to divorce. She did! He would have spent the rest of his life, from early 20's on single if God wouldn't forgive and allow him to remarry. He was studying for the ministry at time.
I also counseled with my pastor on divorce. Of course, it was allowed due to H adultery. I also ask about forgiveness as this is our second marriage each.
The consensus of two or more in our church (Baptist) were that we can get forgiveness, and blessings on a second marriage.
This has always bothered me even though this marriage has, for the most part, been the happiest time of my life.
I just believe if you get divorced and you are going to remarry, why not the first spouse?
It's 6 of one and half dozen of other. God has no boundry in forgiveness except for blasphemy which is the unforgivable sin. According to my bible!
Georgie, give it to God, pray on it and just allow him to guide you! What other conselor can give you that best advice? NONE
LouLou
LouLou

JustJ, you mentioned seeing a Rabbi for OT laws. The problem for Christians there is Rabbi's do not believe in the NT. Am I not right? Since they do not believe Jesus is the true son of God and practicing Jews are still awaiting his first arrival? No insult intended, please. Just my understanding.
True, Rabbi would certainly know the complete OT laws. No argument there at all!
But I think NT has to be applied for the Christian.
Romans given my the other here is good. Sorry, so many I've read here I didn't remember your name ? But thank you for your post on Romans.
LouLou

Interesting discussion to be sure.

In Deuteronomy it also talks about stoning adulterers to death... we know how Christ dealt with that one.

Let me chew on this one a bit and share your response with some friends Mort... To be clear - I have no problem with you whatsoever nor do I have any doubts about your intentions. Something in me is screaming very loudly that God did not intend to block a case like this where the family can be together and whole once again - so the message I am getting is "Go study and keep working through this conflict!".

Just so's ya don't mistake my intent as questioning yours... I know you want to see a way arounf this one too. Have a few good friends beating the bushes for me looking into this. Good group project for a bunch of christians who think too much.

God Bless,
2.

Georgie,
I didn't make it through every post on this thread, so forgive me if I am repetitive. Also it is possible that I missed mention of another scripture that contradicts this interpretation. But regarding

Deut 24:1-4

24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something <strong>indecent </strong> about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house,

2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,

3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,

4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

It seems to be that this does not apply to Georgie. Georgie divorced her first husband because of his adultery (regardless of who actually filed) which according to certain scriptures is allowed. Her husband did not "send her from his house", he left. This passage is about a faithful husband who is abiding by the marriage covenant and who finds something "indecent" about his wife and sends her away. That is not Georgie's situation.

In the case of Georgie's second marriage, it is similar- the description does not apply to her. Again, she is the one divorcing her second husband for abuse. While adultery has not been confirmed, although probable, this abusive husband has not been faithful to his marriage vows to "love, honor and cherish" Georgie. Furthermore, him not coming home at night could be considered as proof of adultery since he has forsaken the marriage bed. So again, Georgie was not sent from the house because her husband disliked her.

So Deut in effect is talking about a different woman than in Georgie's case. note the scripture says that the man divorces the wife because he finds her displeasing because of indecent behavior.
It is not simply saying that the man can find the wife displeasing for any reason- (ie. gained weight and was no longer attractive, lost her teeth or whatever). She has to have been indecent. Georgie has not been indecent. Her husbands did not send her from the house. She divorced them for adultery.

Deut. seems to be set up to prevent a man from making a mistake twice. It is saying that an indecent woman can not continually sin and bamboozle a man over and over again. For example, a situation where the woman marries, sins in the marriage, and is thrown out, marries again, continues to sin, and is thrown out- well that woman is not allowed to go back to husband #1 and rope him into her games again.

Note: that Deut does not mention for example a woman who is divorced by her husband for indecency, remarries and she has to divorce hubby #2 because he is adulterous. Presumably in that case, because hubby #2 did not divorce her, or die, she could remarry hubby #1.

Deut seems to be very specific in this regard. I feel that it does not apply to Georgie and she need not feel bound by this scripture.

As others have pointed out, there are contradictions in the Bible so even if you did follow the Bible literally it could be difficult to figure out which way to go. I believe that Jesus is about love and that love ultimately must dictate what direction to go in. By love I don't mean the lust frequently called love by OP and WS, but pure, unselfish spiritual love.

Also, as others have pointed out, there are certain Biblical injunctions that we do not follow today because they would be seen as cruel or even illegal. Remember although you may believe the Bible is the word of God it was recorded by humans and as such is open to human interpretation and human error.

I think you are right Georgie to take your time before recommitting to your WH. Since he was the adulterer, you need to make sure that he is committed to recovery. But I see nothing in Deut that forbids your remarriage, you do not fall into its specific situation.

To me it makes sense that you would entertain forgiving your adulterous husband.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

Hi Georgie,

Your thread has grown into a monster in it's old age.

Okay, I really have an issue with what we see in Deut. on this one. So I have been asking around.

A dear friend of mine is friends with Dave Carder (Author of Torn Asunder). I will post that exchange in a moment.

Mortarman, in Deuteronomy the idea of stoning adulterers to death is also pretty popular, remember? Christ did make it abundantly clear in discussions with the Pharises et al that 'the law' of the Old Testament is secondary to Grace.

Jesus picked up his mat and healed someone on the Sabbath - Whoops - against the law.

Another thing that is very clear in the old testament is that the laws, as written, were oftentimes tainted by man's biases. Blasphemy? No, How many misconceptions and abuses of the Word did Christ set folks straight on? In Deut. you should keep in mind that societal factors contribute to what is said.

One thing I had not considered in this question is what was going on when this was written? Dave Carder offered some interesting ideas on that - STD's were rampant and the whole divorce/remarriage/remarry first spouse issue would lead to extremely complex inheritence issue s and blood feuds - common at the time.

So anyway, I am reasonably well satisfied that what God most wants to see is happy, whole marriages and children being raised by thier parents in a Christian home. I certainly cannot believe that God would consider Georgie defiled or unclean due to the fact that she remarried. Althought the OT is silent on having the snot beat out of you as grounds for divorce, I am equally sure that God would not want anyone to endure that. I believe that falls under the category entitled "Duh... do I have to spell EVERYTHING out?".

At any rate Georgie, I am sure that prayer and time will answer this for you according to His plan. From all you have described I do not see your crime. Perhaps it comes down to one's personal relationship with Him - for myself, that relationship has yet to be nything but infinitely patient and kind as I struggle to get it right.

If interested, here is the email my friend sent to Dave Carder and the reply he got back, edited slightly to exchange my friend's name for his MB handle.

Adoremywife,
I think you have developed a great reply. You can't stretch the OT to
cover all of the contingencies we currently run across. I think most OT
scholars would also suggest that behind
the restriction was the prevention of STD's (which were rampant in the
area at the time) and the protection of the family and children's
inheritance (including the land the family lived
on). Furthermore, as we constantly experience in our day and age, these
kinds of issues are very difficult to resolve with a sense of fairness
for all parties, and I think the OT was
attempting to prevent the marital practices of the pagan cultures that
often resulted in family feuds and vindictive murder (just like still
happens in some Near Eastern cultures today).
Dave


Okay, that reply doesn't make sense without my friend AdoreMywife's message which was:

Well I was basically believe that we are released from some of
the law because grace supersedes it. For instance, we are not in the
habit of stoning adulterers
anymore - thank God. But I read this passage myself and was a bit
confused as to why God was so adamant about not remarrying after a
second marriage.
Obviously some one in this situation (above) messed up morally
and there are significant consequences in life. One or both of these
people, sought out a divorce
against God's will and at least one of them committed adultery in
doing so. However, in Christ all things are possible, including
forgiveness at a very deep level. In
John 8, Jesus forgives the adulteress while rebuking her to not
live in sin anymore.

My gut feeling is that God would honor two people in this
situation to restore their original marriage and to work toward being
strong supportive parents of their
children. The Bible seems to be fairly silent on the issues of
divorce in the case of abuse or abandonment. I'm well acquainted with
the passages on divorce in the
Gospels, Malachi and the spirit of God's forgiveness in the story
of Hosea, but I'm at a loss on how to answer this person's question from
a Biblical standpoint.
Any ideas where to look or answers to give?

Thanks for any time you might spend considering this. Sincerely


This is one that I just can't let go of easily Georgie. The God that I know does not punish people like you, he is a god of mercy and understanding and compassion. What could honor God more than for your original marriage to be restored in a truly Christian fashion with your children witnessing that?

I never have, nor will I ever believe that God does stupid things just because they are writtten down somewhere. Those are human emotionas and failings - He doesn't do that.

If those words in Deut. had come from Christ's lips? Then I'd say "Well, yer outta luck", However, Christ CLEARLY dismisses many 'law-based' traditions in the NT, does he not (that whole he who is without sin pickup the first stone???)

For those who believe that every word of the Bible, OT or NT is 100% Divinely inspired I won't argue with you - but if we start from that position is it not completely logical to assume that whatever was said LATER takes precedence over what was said in Moses' time?

Or, to put it as simply as I can - If The old Testament had everything right, there was no need for a sequel.

Georgie, Pray and your answer will come - Grace and Love overcome the law with Christ.

2.

If we were to try to follow OT law, then a man can divorce his wife for simply burning the meal!And all he had to do was publicly denounce her as his wife!
OT law went out with the appearing of Christ to fulfill the law. Thus, such as animal sacrifice no longer was needed. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
I believe much was changed and NT to be the present day laws, as the old laws were in somewhat barbarically carried out in a way I don't think God meant them to be. I firmly believe man expounded on the OT laws God had given. And it's shown throughout the bible.
If OT was perfect, we'd not have had God sacrificing his son to save the world from it's sins!
I believe there is too much bouncing back and forth between OT and NT today. I know OT holds prophecies we need to know of. Tied in with books in NT as well.
But the laws there are not for us.
LouLou

Georgie &#8211; I have been reading your thread and thinking about your situation and the opinions that you have been receiving. I generally "hang out" on the Recovery Board, so if you are interested in learning more about who I am you can read a little bit over on that board. Perhaps you wouldn&#8217;t mind &#8220;one more opinion&#8221; from a fellow Christian being thrown in to the mix for you to consider.

First a few general comments and thoughts.

Please remember that it is YOUR walk with Christ that God is most interested in. Not mine or anyone else&#8217;s. We are to become more Christ-like in our lives as we humbly submit our lives to our Lord and Sovereign. Remember, it is God who IS sovereign, not us. We have to be very careful to NOT become as the Pharisees, seeking from over substance, and twisting God&#8217;s truths for our own benefit.

Georgie, there are obviously several issues that need to be addressed with your situation, and your potential desire to reunite with husband #1.

I am not sure which of the issues I would rank as number 1, 2, 3&#8230;. etc., so I&#8217;ll try to keep it simple.

First is your relationship with God.

Georgie, you, me and everyone else on the planet are a sinner. Some, through Christ, are saved from eternal damnation, and some are not. But in the case of Christians we are all saved by God&#8217;s GRACE alone. It is a GIFT of God so that no one can boast they are &#8220;better and more worthy&#8221; than the rest of us.

We live in a fallen, sinful body and will fight sin until we die. It is in our nature and it is only our soul that has been saved. We will eventually be given a new and incorruptible body, but not during our present life on earth. So the war between sin and God, fleshly nature and a Spirit controlled life wages on. We have been told quite clearly that trials and temptations, difficulties and struggles, WILL come into our lives, especially since Satan seeks to destroy the relationship and the witness of all who love God. More often than not, we are the source of our own unhappiness by choosing our own desires and following our own emotions instead of submitting all to God in humble obedience to His commands and teaching. Therein lays the dilemma you are facing with respect to God&#8217;s commands and teaching regarding the covenant of marriage.

We live, unfortunately, in a society that places far too little emphasis on the sanctity and seriousness of the marriage covenant. This was the first covenant that God established with Man and God does not break His covenants&#8230;we do.

But before I go much further I want to interject a brief comment that I think is vital to this discussion and to all discussions about topics that are not totally revealed by God. We must be very careful to not project our interpretations AS IF it is God speaking. Unless we were to have a personal visit from God (not going to happen as Jesus told us that we have the OT prophets and closed His direct communication with the Apostles) then we have to look at Scripture in it&#8217;s entirety and defer to God when it is not clearly revealed. In those cases, we come back to what WE personally believe is a sin. For example, I may see nothing wrong with a cigarette or an occasional alcoholic beverage. But my &#8220;brother in Christ&#8221; might consider them to be sinful behavior. Therefore, I would NOT smoke or drink in his presence out of respect for his beliefs and not wanting to &#8220;flaunt&#8221; my &#8220;understanding&#8221; as being better than his.

So in marriage we are dealing with some &#8220;absolutes&#8221; that God has clearly revealed and some &#8220;wiggle room&#8221; that Christ has given us.

This leads us to the second point. You have entered into a covenant of marriage not just once, but twice. If there is to be any &#8220;wiggle room&#8221; for you, it must be based on Scripture and not societal &#8220;norms&#8221; or &#8220;political correctness&#8221;.

So a brief review before proceeding. Husband #1 committed adultery and you divorced him. According to Christ, that IS and WAS your right. It is not to be the &#8220;first choice&#8221;, but it is your right because God knows the seriousness and pain of adultery. It is primarily a choice to be implemented with an unrepentant spouse to protect you from further pain and to protect your walk with God. God established in such a case that YOU would not be guilty of adultery if you were to marry someone else following such a divorce. But we are also admonished that if we do marry again, we are to marry a believer who is a Christian and submitted to God, not merely professing to be a Christian, or an outright unbeliever.

Husband #2 was obviously violent and abusive from the beginning. As soon as he got the marriage license, he seemed to view it as a valid &#8220;hunting license&#8221; with you as prey. Now I&#8217;m not sure if you &#8220;overlooked&#8221; these violent tendencies prior to the marriage, perhaps because you felt the desire and the need to be married, but regardless, Husband #2 had entered a marital COVENANT with you and God. The &#8220;fruits of the spirit&#8221;, the &#8220;role of the husband&#8221; is clearly revealed in Scripture. Husband #2&#8217;s behavior leads me to believe that, despite his academic credentials and knowledge, he had no &#8220;Heart Knowledge&#8221; of God and Christ. Satan himself has all the &#8220;head knowledge&#8221;, but he, like Husband #2, will not submit his life to God. Hence, I don&#8217;t think, and you would need to ask yourself, that Husband #2 was ever a true Christian. He appropriated the &#8220;title&#8221;, but his actions spoke louder than anything and did NOT reflect a life that had been submitted to God and was walking in humble obedience. No, he felt you &#8220;owed&#8221; him. He felt he &#8220;owned&#8221; you. He felt it was &#8220;okay&#8221; to beat and hurt the one we love. Does any of this sound Christ-like to you, or to anyone else who claims the name of Christ?

Georgie, there are many who claim to be Christians but who are not. In your case, I don&#8217;t believe that Husband #2 is, or was, a true Christian. So, that still does not negate the Covenant of marriage because Scripture does also talk about what should be done when we choose to disobey God&#8217;s direction to marry a fellow believer and marry an unbeliever, or become &#8220;unevenly yoked&#8221; in marriage. So regardless of Husband #2&#8217;s spiritual status, he IS your legal husband according to God&#8217;s revealed will in Scripture.

That leaves us with what he did and whether or not it &#8220;fulfills&#8221; the status of &#8220;marital unfaithfulness&#8221; or adultery if you will. So let&#8217;s first begin with something simple and basic before we move on to the more complex issues. Scripture clearly reveals that anyone commits adultery when they look on someone other than their spouse with lust. If that is true, then the &#8220;covenant&#8221; of marriage is broken by the &#8220;offender&#8221; at that point. The covenant is reestablished by confession to God and repentance of the sin, followed by a renewed commitment to be obedient to God and to the marriage covenant. So if the repentance does NOT occur, it can lead to active involvement in what we term an &#8220;affair&#8221;, be it emotional and/or physical. In any case, when faced with unrepentance on the part of the sinner, the spouse has the right according to Jesus to divorce and be free from the potential sin of adultery should they later enter into a marriage with someone.

Also, with respect to &#8220;marital unfaithfulness&#8221;, remember that this is a Covenant relationship. A covenant is with God and with each other in the case of marriage. The sin is first and most importantly against God. We, as Christians, are the &#8220;bride of Christ&#8221;. We are also &#8220;married&#8221; to Christ and it is Christ who models how we are to behave in a marriage. In short, we (and I am speaking to husbands to here) are to be willing and ready to lay down our lives to protect and save our wives should it come to that. We are to follow the Scriptural directions, for example in 1 Cor. 13. To break these commitments is to be &#8220;unfaithful&#8221; to our spouse every bit as much as sexual infidelity.

In Old Testament days, the people considered women to be &#8220;property&#8221;. Many of the rules were put in place with that idea in mind. It was to protect &#8220;property&#8221; rights. But that is NOT what God intended when He established the Covenant of Marriage with Adam and Eve. Eve was created from a rib to be a &#8220;part&#8221; of Man, to be at Man&#8217;s side and not above or below Man. God established roles for each to willingly submit to and to choose to do because they love their spouse and because God said that is the way it was to be as a consequence of the Fall. We are to be &#8220;completers&#8221; of each other. We, through marriage, reestablish the mystery of &#8220;one flesh&#8221;; we become &#8220;one person&#8221; in marriage.

But understand that God KNOWS our sinful nature. He knows the evil that resides within each one of us. He knows the struggle that we face and the power of sin. It is, I believe, one of the reasons we are give various passages to help &#8220;overcome&#8221; the lure of sin in our lives and the power of our own emotions to deceive us. I think of Philippians 4:13 most often when I think of this struggle. Our own power is so limited, yet God makes available to us unlimited power if only we will access it through a submitted life to Christ. &#8220;Faith without works is dead&#8221; does not mean that someone who doesn&#8217;t actively engage in what society would recognize as &#8220;work&#8221;. It can encompass those things that we recognize as work (i.e. missions, evangelism, etc.), certainly, but salvation is a Gift and not earned in any way. The &#8220;works&#8221; spoken of are a natural out flowing of the love and thankfulness for God and what Christ did on our behalf. We become &#8220;new creations&#8221; able to resist evil through &#8220;working&#8221; to become more Christ-like in our daily lives. One of the works that should flow is how we protect and love our spouse. How we submit our desires, if necessary, to Christ&#8217;s example of &#8220;not my will, but Thy will be done.&#8221; It also encompasses God&#8217;s directions to forgive a repentant sinner. &#8220;Love means never having to say you&#8217;re sorry&#8221; is directly opposite of biblical teaching. It is self-centered, worldly, and another of Satan&#8217;s many lies that try to twist the truth of God. The truth is that when we do sin, we are to repent and seek forgiveness (i.e. saying &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry&#8221;) and that God is faithful to forgive us. We do the same with others who we may also have sinned against. Their response should also mirror God&#8217;s response, forgiveness and &#8220;go and sin no more&#8221;.

Georgie, there IS only ONE unforgivable sin and Christ clearly defined it as &#8220;blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.&#8221; If what Christ has said is true, then all the arguments against remarriage as somehow committing an &#8220;unforgivable sin&#8221; are false. It may NOT be the best scenario and there may be consequences, but all other sins are forgivable by God. We may have to live with the consequences that sin may have brought into our lives, but when God forgives, He forgives totally and washes us totally clean. We are spotless before God. Man may choose to &#8220;wag a finger&#8221; at us, but in the final analysis, it is not what Man thinks, it is what God thinks and sees. HE sees us as a "new and sinless person" washed clean by the blood of Christ.

Now, before anyone wants to possibly jump up and down about &#8220;abusing Christian liberty&#8221;, that is not what I am talking about. I am NOT saying to willfully sin so that &#8220;grace can abound&#8221;.

Remember that we live today, by the grace of God and sacrifice of Christ, in the Age of Grace. Were it not for that fact, all of the WS&#8217;s that we know of on MB would have been stoned to death, because that was the &#8220;law&#8221; that was established. Christ came to fulfill and to abolish the law. It is not through our efforts or our actions that we are saved, or made &#8220;clean&#8221; in God&#8217;s sight. This serious consequence of adultery was pointing toward the seriousness of our choice to become a &#8220;bride of Christ&#8221;. Either we do it God&#8217;s way, or our penalty is painful, eternal, death. One cannot be faithful to Christ and still serve self or Satan above God. &#8220;This is the new commandment that I give you, love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and love thy neighbor as thyself.&#8221; On these two hang all the law. They take precedence over all the other laws and without them the other laws cannot succeed or exist.

So, where does that leave Georgie, as a woman seeking to be obedient to God?

This is my opinion, Georgie. Others are free to disagree, but I believe it is based on the principle of God&#8217;s love, of loving and trusting God &#8220;to work all things for our good&#8221; for those who trust Him. Georgie, I believe that your Husband #2, from all that you have written, is guilty of marital unfaithfulness. He is unrepentant, and probably never was a true Christian to begin with. You have the right to divorce him, just as you had the right to divorce Husband #2. God has reserved that right to you as the &#8220;betrayed spouse&#8221;. Such a decision is NOT to be taken lightly. It is the &#8220;last step&#8221; in how we are to deal with sin in general and marital unfaithfulness in specific.

I am going to assume for a moment that you proceed and become divorced from Husband #2. If that occurs, then you are free to marry again, but only should do so according to the clear direction of Scripture. This is where you may have a problem that still remains with Husband #1. If Husband number 1 is NOT a born-again Christian, you are NOT to marry him anymore than you are to marry ANY unbeliever. I fully understand your desires and the desires of your children, but you must follow God FIRST. You must model to your children and teach your children about God and His commands. You have &#8220;life lessons&#8221; that you can teach them to show the consequences of being disobedient to God. But you can also show them how God is faithful to those who love Him and walk in obedience to Him.

If your Husband #1 is now a believer, then you should still proceed with caution, especially with respect to marriage. God is NOT a God of allowing us unlimited options to do whatever we want. The covenant of marriage is SERIOUS business. If you are to remarry, then you must understand the covenant nature of marriage and it must be with a fellow believer who is committed to living a submitted life to God. So there should be no &#8220;rushing into marriage&#8221;. You must take the time to fully discuss things. To fully see the changes that should be there in someone who has truly accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Husband #1 already went the route of adultery. He chose &#8220;poorly&#8221;. You need to know for certain that he is truly a &#8220;changed&#8221; man, or you need to be ready to live life as a single mother. I get the sense that you &#8220;want&#8221; to be a &#8220;married woman&#8221;. That is a God-given desire, but it does not allow you to &#8220;marry anyone&#8221; just to satisfy your desire. Should marriage ever become an option, it MUST be with a truly born-again Christian. But remember, if Husband #1 has accepted Christ and submitted himself to Christ, then you should see a changed person. It is no longer sufficient for him to merely claim to be a Christian; you are going to have to see outward signs that he has, in fact, become a changed person seeking to become more Christ-like in his entire life.

Georgie, YOU may have suffered as a result of &#8220;poor choices&#8221;, but remember the order of things is important. God first, family second, everyone else a distant third. While you may have suffered, or are suffering, as result of things, USE this opportunity as a sister in Christ to teach your children with &#8220;real life&#8221; lessons that the Commandments ALL also contain a Promise from God. We need to choose God and we need to choose to submit our wills and desires to the one who is truly Sovereign.

Seek God&#8217;s will. Pray for God&#8217;s wisdom in this matter. Test all advice, mine included, against Scripture. Pray for God&#8217;s peace in your heart and for strength to follow Him each day. Trust God to handle the future and for His strength in dealing with the issues and problems of each Day. Put the worry about the future into God&#8217;s hands and control your actions to focus on how to honor God today. Pray for God&#8217;s peace and for God&#8217;s timing and will to be revealed to you. Pray for patience as you wait on God and endurance for the trials of each day.

God bless and grant you wisdom and peace.

<small>[ October 04, 2003, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

This is one of the most interesting topics. There are and have been many people who are better at interpreting God's word than me. But there are a few things I wonder about:

The Bible and the Ten Commandments are above all God's undisputable words, directives and commands. We try to understand the why and wherefore of what God wants us to do, but it is not so necessary to understand His word so much as it is to live by it. We as humans cannot hope to understand God's plan. In my opinion, much of the Bible IS common sense. Example:

- Treating others as you want to be treated. Sounds fair to me and I'm happy with that.

- Love you enemies, forgiveness, turning the other cheek. Modern psychology has proven that harboring hatred, bitterness and anger does more damage in the long term to you than it does to the person the anger is directed towards.

- Thou shalt not kill, why? Because killing is wrong. Yet God allows for war and killing when necessary; a season for everthing.

I see a lot in the Bible that addresses health concerns. In a day when there were few medicines and limited treatments and a complete ignorance of germs, microbes, bacteria; there was no understanding how to prevent infections by disease. Follow the Word in the Bible and it was and is a health manual.

In the time of Jesus, men married virgins and supposed to marry for life, but if they didn't work out they could divorce rather than live a miserable life and end up killing one another or committing adultery. Now look at it strictly from a health stand point in regards to venerial disease.

You marry a virgin. She has had no sex with anyone else, so you can't get VD from her and get sick or die.

She commits adultery. Now she has been exposed to anothers microbes. She now carries microbes from another man, since there are no condoms to prevent this. If her husband has sex with her now, he risks getting anything she may have contracted.

God's Law allows him to divorce her. They may never live again as husband and wife because he can get disease from her and die. Since he is clean (hopfully he has not contracted anything before the discover of his WW infidelity) God allows him to remarry. WW is however fouled by the microbes of another. God doesn't allow her to have sex or remarry, because she is non-believer and a health risk now. Maybe she is also stoned to death as a public warning that adultery is against God's law, but this also prevents her from passing any of those microbes on to any other man.

Why aren't adulterous men stoned? I don't have a good answer, but perhaps it seemed that only woman got disease as a result of adultery. In the case of AIDS, a woman is 20 times more likely to be infected by a man than the other way around. Maybe because fluid is transferred to the woman from the man. However, the man increases his chances of getting infected with repeated contact.

Of course a man and wife can forgive, after adultery and stay with each other, accepting the risk of sickness and death if there was disease.

Divorcing without adultery. God allows it but doesn't allow sex or remarriage for either party after the divorce. So you can divorce but there is a VERY HEAVY PRICE to pay. Remarriage and sex after divorce is adultery and forbidden. It's really in the best interest of a H and W to work out their differences, or risk a life of lonliness.

In the case of remarriage to an EX after they have remarried and divorced another. According to God Law, they can't remarry their orginal partners after being married to another because they are now "tainted" by microbes from their second spouse and could carry them to the first
spouse. Plus with all that marriage and divorce, at least one of the two original parties is a non-believer.

ALL THE ABOVE APPLIES TO A MAN IF HE IS THE ADULTERER AND THE WIFE THE BETRAYED SPOUSE.

God tells how Jews should prepare meat for consumption (Kosure or bloodless meat). Again, I suppose, to protect against disease.

Question for me: Now that there are modern medicines and condoms; Do I believe that God's literal word can be redefined. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Until God comes down for Heaven and gives us a revision of his His Laws in person, I will follow His law as it is now. We may know more than people 2000 years ago, but we don't know what God knows and never shall.

Everything I have written is only MOVHO and products of my slightly damaged mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Just my 2 cents worth.

I felt inspired and hope you don't mind,
I wanted to share and leave something behind.
---------------------------------------------

Desperately, helplessly, longingly, I cried.
Quietly, patiently, lovingly God replied.
I pled and I wept for a clue to my fate,
And the Master so gently said, "Child, you must wait!"
"'Wait?', you say, wait!" my indignant reply.
"Lord, I need answers, I need to know why!
Is your hand shortened? Or have you not heard?
By FAITH I have asked, and am claiming your Word.
"My future and all to which I can relate
Hangs in the balance, and you tell me to WAIT?
I'm needing a 'yes,' a go-ahead sign,
Or even a 'no' to which I can resign.
"And Lord, you promised that if we believe
We need but to ask, and we shall receive.
And Lord, I've been asking, and this is my cry:
I'm weary of asking! I need a reply!"
Then quietly, softly, I learned of my fate
As my Master replied once again,” You must wait."
So, I slumped in my chair, defeated and taut
And grumbled to God, "So, I'm waiting . . .for what?"
He seemed then to kneel and His eyes wept with mine,
And he tenderly said, "I could give you a sign.
I could shake the heavens, and darken the sun.
I could raise the dead, and cause mountains to run.
All you seek, I could give, and pleased you would be.
You would have what you want--but you wouldn't know ME.
"You'd not know the depth of my love for each saint;
You'd not know the power that I give to the faint;
You'd not learn to see through the clouds of despair;
You'd not learn to trust just by knowing I'm there;
You'd not know the joy of resting in me
When darkness and silence were all you could see.
"You'd never experience that fullness of love
As the peace of my Spirit descends like a dove;
You'd know that I give and I save . . .(for a start),
But you'd not know the depth of the beat of my heart.
"The glow of my comfort late into the night.
The faith that I give when you walk without sight,
The depth that's beyond getting just what you asked
Of an infinite God, who makes what you have LAST.

"You'd never know, should your pain quickly flee,
What it means that 'My grace is sufficient for thee.
Yes, your dreams for your loved ones overnight would come true,
But, oh, the loss! If I lost what I'm doing in you!
"So, be silent, my child, and in time you will see
THAT THE GREATEST OF GIFTS IS TO GET TO KNOW ME.
And though my answers seem terribly late,
My wisest of answers is still but to WAIT."

Your sister in Christ,
Georgie

Georgie,
Thanks for the beautiful reminder....and the tears I just shed!!
Your sister in Christ,
Adgirl48