Mmmm, this is interesting

You enjoy your affair and it meets needs your husband can't. Where have I heard this before?

Oh yeah! It was ME two years ago.

Everyone is responding harshly to you because they are coming from the viewpoint that you are only allowed one significant erotic love interest in your life at a time.

I'm going to offer you something a little different, primarily to stimulate your thoughts.

Why don't you take both your H and your OM out to dinner one night and explain to both of them how you want this these relationships to go. Surely, your H will understand that you deserve to have your needs met by another man when he can't. Sounds only reasonable. And, of course the OM will propbably be good with never being able to be part of a REAL relationship.

I would say that if you can bring EVERYTHING above board and everyone's good with it,
GO FOR IT!!!

After all, YOU DESERVE IT.

With tongue firmly in cheek,
Low

All of this ALL OF THIS...

has nothing to do with your husband, OC, the other man...

It's all about you...Diamond Girl..

because no matter what
It is YOU alone that has to decide once and for all..
what type of person you want to be...

how you want to treat those you care about in your life..

what value you see in yourself..
what value you see in others...

regardless of all them..regardless of what you have done
regardless of what others have done to you
.and regardless of who it is you sleep with...
it is you alone you face in the mirror...

So you start with yourself..
and you decide what value there is in you in relationship to marriage...
what type of marriage do YOU envision...
what type of marriage do YOU want to be a partner in...
what type of marriage is worthy of YOU...
what type of marriage do YOU desire

once you decide those things you begin to make small consistant changes in your
actions,
attitude
and interactions..
so that the things you believe in become the things that define you...
small changes that seem huge and unnatural at first ...soon become so natural they are you...

Same thing goes with all the good feelings of the EMR...for while they are present...they are really just reflections and shadows of love and compassion..
for the emotions lack the actions behind them necessary to sustain them in the real world...

Sex and romance and gushy feelings...that's the easy part...
truly nuturing and attending to eachother is the hard part.. (as you are well learned in)
.and just based on logistics true deep nuturing and cherishing the actions of love is..impossible in an EMR...
too many restrictions on
time, place, availibility, schedules...etc...

So you start with yourself...
you decide...
is this who you want to be?...
If it's not then you have no choice BUT to change...and become who you want to be..

and we here all know..change is scarey...and it's always easier to cling to what we know..and it sounds like you have lived a while doing the same thing over and over in your relationships...

Have you had enough.
Is that why you are here..

people change all the time...
yep all the time...
ARK

IMO TMCM was correct in his first post, this is not a real person, just someone messing with ya all.

However, if it is a real person, then they clearly need serious psychiatric counselling, far beyond anything anyone can offer here. This is not a marital problem. Either way, troll, or seriously disturbed individual, there is no point in responding, except to encourage them to find a competent therapist.

sufdb said...

encourage them to find a competent therapist.

I am not a competent therapist...but I play one on the Net... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK OK OK OK OK...
I'm going to sleep now...I've enough coffee to impress even toomuchcoffeman...

ARK

Still I want to know where she heard about US!

L.

2LONG - Thank you for your words! They have much logic and insight behind them. I am going to print that page and re-read your reply again and again.

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

Ur right I dont like u,grow up.ur kids need a mother not an attension seeking self indulgent teenage brat.

Just so you will know...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> [edited by Archuletan}</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I reported this post to the moderators. This does not apply by MB guidelines for posting on this board.

Susan

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

(((DG))))
It sounds to me that you truly haven't dealt with your feelings with regard to your H's affair. It sounds to me like your H hasn't stepped up to the plate in really truly helping you to recover and you bear resentment for that. That's a tough position to be in - resenting the person you love.Neither of you have found the right "tools" in order to facilitate recovery from all of that.

Please realize that your relationship with OM is your escape from reality (I think you know this tho) and the longer you pursue this in order to feel good the more damage you will do to your M and the less likely you will be able to recover and rekindle your marriage. I can only assume you have posted on this site is because you want to rebuild your marriage. Right now, it has to start with YOU.

If there is any way you can get IC - please do. Books, books, books....the first one I recommend is "After the Affair" by Janis A. Spring. GET IT NOW!!

The obvious thing you MUST do in order to have a glimmer of hope is to completely break off with OM - completely - NO CONTACT - NADA. Done!
Your affair is not justified - it is an excuse. It is an excuse to keep saying "I can't" with regard to your marriage and your H and your family. I know this sounds harsh but I believe it to be the truth.

As others have posted, you need to figure you what YOU want.. so, break it off with OM, read, get counselling, and please keep posting here. You will get support!. (RIGHT FELLOW MB'ers???)

Forgive me for jumping in late on this post. But you ask why you feel no guilt -- it's because it is possible to kill your conscience. Why do we feel guilt when we steal something -- but the habitual thief feels none?

The good news is that it is possible to recover it.

When I read all the emails between my H and OW, I found out what need she suppied. And it may apply here to you DG.
She thought he was perfect, never did a thing wrong, and blew smoke back and forth for months before they met in person.
Had she lived with the man for years, or been married to him as I was and am, she would have seen the times he neglected to fulfill her Emotional needs!
DG, could it be you don't meet H's emotional needs is why he doesnt' meet yours?
Fantasy and reality are two separate things.
If my H had been as loving and devoted to my needs as to OW I would have been kissing his butt daily!
He wasn't! I went through illnesses, sons illness and he almost died, mothers illness and signing papers to let my mom die with no H by my side whatsoever!
He was too busy thinking of OW driving in a thunder storm and warning her not to melt! He was too busy listening to her life problems and consoling OW to give a damn about my dying inside from pain of many things.
NOW, do you think I could worry about fulfilling a mans needs who was allowing me to deal with so many stressful events and pain alone? HELL NO!
But he was perfect to her because he never told her he didn't want to hear her problems!
He told me she never complained, but I pulled up 50 letters of nothing but whining about everything in her life!
Of course he was precious in her sight! He didn't desert her in her time of needs!
Two visits and they saw each other for what they are. Selfish, self centered, evil, vile crap!
They didn't last a week together in person, much less 31 yrs!
DG, perhaps if you and H started putting all this effort toward each other instead of OP, you would find each meeting each others needs!
It's not just hard, it's impossible to feel all those wonderful feelings toward a spouse who is neglecting yours! And the more you build the wall, the further the distance between the relationship.
My H has seen his perfidy, his bad choices and is starting to give me what he gave away, what he had given me in the first years that made me love him, pamper him and dote on him!
You can't rebuild while tearing down bridges.
And someone has to cross over to the others side.
Take a step back,communicate with your H and seek counseling ASAP.
Take both of your A's and tear them apart piece by piece and see the reality of them. Who these people are, not what you get in a parttime coze!
These people won't be any different than S's if you are tied to them in long terms, doing the daily routines you do in marriage.
I like what the OW's H said when I told him.
"It's always fun coming through the back door, but wait until they have to enter through the front door"!
You show only the side of yourself you wish OM to see and vice versa, same for your H.
Any therapist worth their salt will tell you people don't show themselves in this type of relationship. It's all a facade!
My H said he couldn't handle my depression.. But he's the one who caused it!
So he then hooked up with old HS sweety who had son with deep depression, grandchildren with serious health problems, she herself has serious problems way bigger than mine ever were. Plus financial diaster in her life!
You know why he dealt with hers and not mine?
HE didnt' have to! He didn't live in her daily world. He lived in fantasy of perfection by meeting at another state, free of all problems. They spent time swimming, strolling on beaches, sucking up to each other in grand accommadations, eating every meal out! NOT one problem to face during those days. No dishes, no laundry, bills, dealing with family illnesses. not one responsibility.
Hey, I could be on top of the world forever in those circumstances myself. I'd love to throw it all out the window and just live like it was one grand vacation for eternity!
He could listen to her problems from afar, only by phone or emails, then hang up, sign off and forget them!
In the marriage he had to come home and face the reality!
After his second visit with her, broke it off, came home and talked to a counselor at work. He told his counselor he'd have been miserable married to her, and miserable if he'd lost me and his family.
She went from 10 on his scale of fantasy to a 0 in reality. His words, not mine.
You are looking for escape from reality.You've found it, but it will turn sour sooner than you think.
You get your high from OP because you don't take any responsibility with you while there!
Instead of just getting your thrills, start telling OP all about your problems and asking for advice and if they can solve all this for you.
See how quickly they brush over it and try to turn your mind to only one thing.
Be suddenly sick in their presence and tell them you just need them to take care of you, no sex, nothing but tend to you health wise. Spend the day or night doing nothing but moaning and seeking sympathy, asking for care.
See how quickly they suggest you should go home and come back when you're quite the thing. LOL
Talk to them the way you do to your spouse! Ignore their needs the way you do your Spouse and see how long your Disney land last!
LouLou

DG:

"I on the other hand HAVE bothered to talk to him beforehand and tell him my feelings and how I was seriously considering an A of my own. No reply. No actions."

I didn't have an A, but my W did almost the same thing you describe here. She told me everything BUT that she was considering having an A. I didn't reply 2 her satisfaction, so she thought I didn't care. In fact, I was scared 2 death. I had no idea WHAT 2 do. Your H may be in a similar mode right now, compounded by the fact that he had an A of his own. He probably feels unqualified 2 tell you that you shouldn't have an A of your own.

"So in my mind I feel I am justified in my actions because at least I tried to fix the problems. He doesn't think there are any problems."

Exactly what my W felt. She also didn't think I believed there were problems, again for the reasons I stated above.

"Can't understand why I can't JUST GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON!!??? Sorry folks but I DO UNDERSTAND more than you know the pain an A causes and sorry but I am feeling the eye for an eye thing right now. I cannot help myself."

And if you keep this up, I can guarantee you will be perfect guests on the Jerry Springer Show. He eats si2ations and atti2des like these for breakfast.

-kid 2long

Ok.. I do understand you and do have empathy for your current situation.

Just wanted to clarify that I can understand what you are doing and why.

Now that is far different from agreeing with what you are doing, I learned that the very, very hard way and caused myself and others a lot of HELL as a result.

Your actions and lack of guilt (justification/rationalization) is very typical for someone in the midst of an affair.

Food for thought: Is that any way to live? Lies, deceit, the fear of discovery, STDs????
You got bashed because you are a bit earlier in the process a WS goes through than are most who wind up here. Yes, most WS's while in an affair have rationalized a whole set of reasons why it is justified.

In your case:
1. husband cheated on you - best self-esteem killer there is.
2. Your marriage was in lousy shape - your fault 50% for not fixing it and doing something about it.
3. But OM is sweet, kind, loving - sure, he sees you for what, a few hours per week? No mortgage, no commitments, no hassles, no conflict - fantasyland. Has he even farted in front of you yet? Do you treat your husband with the same affection, respect, kindness?????

So here is what i can tell you - What you are doing is wrong. Seperate that from what your husband did. Your having an affair is not justified by his affair. You lying and cheating is not justified by him not being kind enough.

YOU and you alone are responsible for cheating and lying. Mistakes don't make you a bad person - continuing them would.

Do you want your marriage fixed? if so you and your husband have work to do, a great first step is telling the truth, demanding the truth from him, ending any contact with the OM and focusing at home. You have no excuses that justify keeping this up.

I may understand where you are coming from but I also understand where you are heading - if the rules of marriage do not apply to you no other rules will. If you can lie, cheat and rationalize at home you will do so elsewhere.

STOP digging yourself deeper into trouble.

I am with everyone else here on this - if you think cheating is OK then you are wrong and you probably deserve what you get - which will suck.

If you want to address the problems in your marriage and work on those - ask people here to help with that.

PS> I was kidding about the 'ask ws's if 2 is worth listening to" my point was simply that nobody is beating you for kicks, we are beating you because you are behaving foolishly and selfishly and nobody here condones cheating - ever.

Maybe your H does know about your first betrayal of him just prior to your marriage to him.

TMCMan -what makes you say that?

2ofakind -

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Still I want to know where she heard about US!

L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"TMCMan -what makes you say that?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess the way you describe his treatment of you shows, at least to me, that he MAY harbor some deep resentment towards you. The statement "I asked him how he would feel if I did this him - he said if that's what made me happy, then so be it" MAY be evidence of a great disillusionment of you. Mind you that this is all speculation but you shouldn't discard the idea that he may already know about your past betrayal and maybe even of your present one as well.

P.S. Don't be surprised if he is having another affair at this present time.

TMCMan - Ever since D-day my radar has been on such high terrorist alert status it's unbelievable.

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>