</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
I can assure you my H would not feel any pain nor shed any tears.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">which is what my wife thought about me, too. she didn't talk to me because she didn't thiink i would listen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Every day I make an effort at making little love "deposits" ( I'm not very familiar yet on the phrases here) and I rarely get a response.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">which is, right now, silent screaming. tell him the truth and see how he responds. he might surprise you. a lot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... his reactions just encourage me to continue my affair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">weak.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last night was a perfect oppurtunity for us to get close. Kids went to the circus with my brother, we had the house to ourselves, NOTHING.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so what did you do to try and get close?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I already know I want to leave him. Whatever good we had, is gone.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">then there's no reason for you not to tell him. do the right thing, tell him the truth and allow the both of you to get on with your lives. by continuing this behavior, you are being cruel to him, to yourself and to your family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I already know I want to leave him. Whatever good we had, is gone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then tell your husband. You said he would shed no tears, you are disgusted with him so tell him. Take all the reasons(excuses) you use to continue the affair and use thase to tell your husband that you are having an affairwith the next door neighbor.

Well, I just had a flashback.

When I was wanting to pursue an affair with my H's best friend (and cousin), I told the OM I was going to work on my marriage because it was the right thing to do.

Then I set up situations where my H could fail. I wouldn't communicate to him the importance of his pressence or I wouldn't specify what it was I wanted from him. I had high expectations in rapid time of a situation that had gone downhill over a long period of time. He did a lot of avoiding too, even though I made it clear I needed him around. Hmmm...wonder why that was? Hard headed male? No, I think I would have hidden too if given the choice to run or to sit around with someone who is obviously angry and resentful. You don't spose your husband can TELL that angry, do you? I assure you he can. So be realistic...you're probly not too inviting for him to want to be around right now.

So I retract the statement about him probly having an A of his own. He may be...but he may just be avoiding an obviously uncomfortable situation. Men think that if they don't acknowledge a problem, it might just go away on its own. My husband as much as said so.

So what I want to know is what you're going to DO next. Not what you feel. Because that's irrelevant. What are you going to do? It is action that defines us.

When are you going to tell your cold, unfeeling hubby that it's time to call it quits?

When are you going to contact a lawyer?

When are you going to tell the kids. They can, by the way, tell that there is trouble. Kids can feel the uneasiness faster than adults, because they haven't quite developed that 'denial' skill.

When are you going to go out and find yourself a new place to live? Chances are both of you are going to need to do that...unless you can afford the place on your own.

When are you going to draw up a budget that will let you know how you're going to pay the bills on your salary alone. Child support is to support the children...it won't help you much with furniture and light bills, gas and clothes for work.

You also might want to get a counselor lined up. Not a marital one, obviously, since you're past that...right??...but one for the kids. Irreguardless of how many of their friends may be from split homes...they're going to be hurt and confused. Kids from a divorced family have a higher risk of all sorts of teen troubles like drugs and sexual promiscuity...as well as a higher future chance of failed relationships themselves. Gosh, isn't that great? It's good that their needs outweigh yours, huh? Because it's only their entire futures at stake. But they'll be fine, right?

Oh, and there's the future issue of the stepmom. I mean, your hubby isn't going to be able to take care of himself, obviously, so he's going to go scouting for a new wife or girlfriend pretty quick. So there will be atleast a few other women in the kids lives. They're probly going to have their own ideas about how to raise them. There's really nothing you can do about that...so you might want to read some good books on co-parenting and such to be ready for that.

Just a few things to get you started. There's so much more. And if you think I'm blowing it out of proportion...I'll tell you now, I haven't even scratched the surface. I spent a year out on my own while working towards a divorce. Not one single day of it was fun. Not one. I couldn't afford to go out, even when my H could watch our son. I had to work harder just to make ends meet and my son needed me more than ever. So my 'me' time that I so desperatly wanted, went from little to none. Yup, it's a real hoot. And I was SURE I didn't love my H and I was SURE he wasn't capable of changing to meet my needs, etc... You're singing the same tune so many before you have. You can choose the same ending most do...and divorce and wind up with the same problems with a new partner somewhere down the line...or learn some new skills and see where it takes you in your marriage and possible be one of the few marriages that SURVIVE out there. Because EVERY SINGLE MARRIAGE OUT THERE goes through periods of change JUST LIKE THIS. This is not unique.

So what are you going to DO?

Whippit - if he were having yet another affair, why won't he leave me like I've asked him to so many times?? Right - probably the same reason I haven't left him yet.

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

The point is that you have the power to change it all. Do you want to have that intimacy with your husband that you had so long ago? How would you feel if you were able to have a whole, healthy family instead of this madness that your life has become?

HOw about giving yourself, your husband, and your children the gift of real love?

I didn't receive your email. Can you try again?

Thanks-

Keep this up and one day you'll find out that your decisions have already been made for you.

DG - I've noticed you are spending a lot of time defending yourself on this board.....yet you avoid some of the important questions....

It's quite clear you can't do this forever. This is a NOW solution - not a FUTURE solution. So look ahead for a minute, and tell me ultimately what you would like to see happen. Don't do it by making prejudgements about what will happen or won't happen. Just tell us what you want in the future.

Some examples of answers for the FUTURE:
I want to be happy with OM.
I want to have a happy M with H.
I want to have a happy M, but without H - with another man.
I want to be happy on my own.

Part of life is identifying what you want and making the steps to move toward that. Remember, I was in your place not too long ago. I didn't think my M could be better. And I didn't think my H would stay with me. But I took the chance that I might be wrong. And he has stayed.

You say:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I already know I want to leave him. Whatever good we had, is gone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Break up inevitable? Yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know why you haven't ended it yet? If you really " know " what the inevitable outcome is, then you would be moving toward that...not waiting for it to happen.

But you can't. Because there is a little nagging voice somewhere in the very back of your head that says you might just be wrong. You know, I posted about this just the other day. During the A, you rationalize because you convince yourself that it is already over. That either the M is irrecoverable, your S doesn't want you any more, you messed up once (and your S said he would leave you if you ever cheated) - so it's over no matter what - why stop what happiness you have now, right?

But there is still this little tiny gut feeling you might be wrong. That OM is not right for you. That your H just might surprise you and use the A as a wake up call to really work on the M. Is your gut feeling right? Or are your thoughts about it being over right? Who knows? You won't until you make a move forward.

Right now, in this instant, yes - you are happy.(It is a false happiness, but we can just forgo that point for now...) But what future is there in this A? You have said you don't want OM permanently. But you don't trust that your H will be the H that you need. So you are just simply trying to get every little bit of happiness right now while you can...In your eyes the future seems to be hopeless - there is only now....

So for just a moment, don't look at what you are gaining from this now. And tell me what you want in the future......can you do at least that?

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: lost in tx ]</small>

lost in tx is absolutely right.

You know you are justifying. You know you aren't making the right decision.

The fact that other people are doing it wrong, doesn't make it right to do it.

The fact that you think you are faking it for the kids, doesn't mean they are truly clueless as to what's going on. You expect your children to be honest and moral...how are they going to learn this when you are giving them an environment of immorality and deciet. All they're going to learn is how to fake it really well. How proud they must be of you.

Oh, and it is still very tramatic for adult children to go through their parents divorce. Different issues....but issues none the less. Now they get to question all the years of what they thought was true. They'll be very angry for all the lies. And I assure you, they won't thank you for what you deem a sacrifice.

DG, you know I'm trying to scare you...but I'm not fabricating anything. These are the scary facts. There is another way. Can you give me a legitimatly good reason not to try another way? I'm sure you have a concience. Ignore what anger and hurt are telling you right now...what does your concience tell you about what you are doing in your life today? Seriously....you're the one you have to live with for the rest of your life. If you can't feel good about yourself...you're going to be miserable no matter where you are or who you're with.

LIT - I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

You are afraid and that is understandable but you have options NOW that at a later time won't be available to you anymore. Why not try to rebuild your marriage? Dump the OM, tell your H and even if you are unsuccesful, at least you can hold your head up high and say that you tried and you can move on with your life without any haunting from the past. Otherwise you may find yourself in the same situation as sad*ex and hopeful_person (two divorced FWW's) who are trying to reconcile with their XH's.

huh

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

I would like a happy marriage with my H, too, and I, too, just don't know if it's possible anymore. One thing I know, however, is that at least for the forseeable future, I will have to be the beacon. I will have to be the one holding the torch, the "strong one."

Just like you. One short observation: I notice that you keep wanting to be made happy, rather than to make someone happy, you keep (with tone of voice, language in these posts) putting yourself in the position of the little girl who wants things taken care of for her. Believe me, I can relate. Daddy used to call me "princess," too. (The image of someone shaking you while you cried is very telling.)

But in the position you are in -- and I am in -- means that we are the decision-makers, the strong ones. If you break up your marriage -- you will have to be the strong one. If you tell your H -- well, he may blow a fuse and you will have to be the strong one.

So I'm encouraging you to start seeing yourself in a different way -- not as a trapped little girl, but as a grown woman who is about to make a decision that will affect a whole bunch of lives forever.

(And frankly, OM's sneaky, double-entendre behavior to his GF was abysmal. Do you really want to be in her shoes someday?)

(((DG)))
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Part of me still hopes for a happy M with my H ( I've got tears falling hard now - I can almost FEEL you shaking me by my shoulders!!!!)

Another part of me feels it's beyond repair. I keep thinking that because I'm in an A right now it is providing me with such a euphoric feeling, that I keep comparing the two R's and the feelings
they provide and the two can't possibly compare which is why my opinion of my M continues to sink! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DG - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> If you knew me, you would know that I would never shake anybody by the shoulders when they are in pain. Instead, I would hug them, and just let them cry and get some of that emotion out.

FYI - your post actually made me cry. You really are me just a few months ago.....It does hurt to know what kind of pain you are feeling. And the hardest part is that even through the euphoria of the A, you feel that deep pain of not being happy. You feel that deep misery because you know that you really want your H....you just want him to want you, too. You want to know that he cares. You want to know that he wants to be with you - not just that he's staying for the kids - or that he's staying out of obligation. You want to know that you mean something to him. Something special, and something meaningful. I know. I know .

And inside you know that the A is not the right way - it's a supplement for what you really want. God, DG, I really do feel for you.

It's hard to face the truth. But you are much smarter than many people are giving you credit for. You said it before - that part of being in the A is making you think your M is really worse than it is....The reality is this. The state of your M is a given. Either you are meeting each other's needs or you are not. Your perception of why he is not meeting your needs is what is unsure. I will not say it is wrong - simply because I can't answer for your H. But it's that nagging voice in the back of your mind that is saying maybe he really isn't treating you like this because he doesn't care.....

Rationalization is just that - trying to make your actions seem reasonable based on an unconfirmed motive.

((DG)) - I'm not going to beat you over the head. I'm not going to ask you to do something just based on "principle" or it being "right." I want you to do something based on your own strength. Because I think you really have more than you are letting on. But you are letting fear motivate you. And I do understand that.

But keep this in mind, and just think about it for a while. You do know what you want - you want a happy M with your H. You are just afraid it can't or won't happen. And your fear is valid - based on past experiences. But it's also entirely possible that your H will get the wakeup call that he needs from this A. That this will be a communication to him that you also need him to change (after all, this seems to be more of a cry out from you to him rather than something that really is making you "happy.") You both really do have a good opportunity. What you choose to do with it will determine your success.

And when you take those short moments to think about your future, realize that you are the one who can control what the outcome is. You can continue to be the victim of unhappiness - or you can be the victor of happiness. It's up to you to make it happen. I am sending you good wishes, DG.....

PS - feel free to e-mail me if you like. I really do understand....

Our posts crossed. As I said to you earlier, DG, you will not be able to break with him face-to-face. You will have to do it by letter. You will not be able to keep no-contact unless your H is in the picture. His pain and double betrayal (by his wife, by his friend) will keep no contact in place.

OM knows how to get round you, obviously. And you like being the out-of-control little girl, the little girl who can't help herself. Don't mean to hammer on the little girl thing -- and I hope it doesn't hurt -- but it's a very, very common stance to take to the world. I do it, too. Most women do, I suspect. But at some point, one has to face that it's wholly inappropriate for people who have other lives in their hands.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
But still I think how can I just DUMP OM??? You say that so harsh as if I should be to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">send him a letter telling him you want no further contact with him and that you want to try to save your marriage. it's not harsh. it's matter-of-fact.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One time along time ago when he was flirting with me I told him I couldn't do this ( this was before we started up) and he got mad at me and reminded me of how H did it to me and why should I be good to him and he doesn't deserve me and I just got pissed thinking about what he said and let it stew for a few months before I crossed over the line.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">re-read your last words above. this is a man you want? a man who encouraged you to ignore your vows? he had an agenda when he told you that. his agenda was to sleep with you ... a married woman. it's a tragic disrespect of you and your marriage.

Hey Girl-

It's pretty easy:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Part of me still hopes for a happy M with my H ( I've got tears falling hard now - I can almost FEEL you shaking me by my shoulders!!!!)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the part of you that is wounded and hurting. This is the part of you that is so afraid that she is not worth loving that she is hiding. This is the part of you that is running to a MAN in order to ease her pain and make her feel taht the answers are in his arms. This is the little girl that has hope, but doesn't trust anything anymmore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Another part of me feels it's beyond repair. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the A talking. You have someone there that is making you feel whole. Someone there to take the sadness and fear away. Guess what, that fear and sadness and confusion will only grow. You will miss out on so much with your family bacause the hormones are flying...

How would you feel if this was your child? What would you think if your child was being betrayed by HER partner?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
<strong>But still I think how can I just DUMP OM??? You say that so harsh as if I should be to him. One time along time ago when he was flirting with me I told him I couldn't do this ( this was before we started up) and he got mad at me and reminded me of how H did it to me and why should I be good to him and he doesn't deserve me and I just got pissed thinking about what he said and let it stew for a few months before I crossed over the line.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DG don't you see that the OM IS USING YOU? ( I am a man and do you think for one minute that I don't see throught him? ) Do you think he's going to be around if you and your H do divorce? I am sorry if I my posts sound harsh to you but I GIVE A DAMM about you, your H and your family. Can you say the same thing for your OM?

OK, DG - different spin here...."Dump" may sound like a harsh word. So let's use a different one. Let's talk about "letting go" of OM....

First, you can't say that OM didn't know that this might be a consequence of getting involved with you. Neither of you probably thought that the A would keep going on. Not many of us WSs did. It wasn't a "long-term goal." But we kept allowing it to happen.

Second, if your H finds out, and wants to stay, you will have to "let go" of OM. If you confess and your H wants to stay, you will have to "let go" of OM. The only way you won't have to "let go" of OM is if you decide you want to continue with him alone. And you've already said you don't.

You said before that the demise of your M is inevitable. But you don't know that - becuase your M isn't working with the whole truth right now. What is clearly obvious is that your relationship with OM will at some point be over. You know the whole truth there. So far, you are unwilling to give up your H and your family for OM. You also know in the back of your head that if he is cheating to be with you, then odds are he will probably cheat on you. And finally, you yourself said that you do not want to be solely with him.

So whether you choose to do it now (by bringing your A to light), or later (by waiting for your H to find out), you will ultimately have to "let go" of OM.....

Here's another way to put it, a bit harsher, perhaps: you like OM because he makes you feel good; OM likes you because you make him feel good. Doesn't sound like H, to whom you are married, feels good. My guess is that GF is not feeling good either. Probably the kids aren't feeling very good -- certainly they won't be.

Ultimately, neither you nor OM will feel good. It's very traumatic, in fact. You're starting to feel not-so-good already.

So why don't we start talking about love, which has little to do with feeling good? What would be the finest expression of selfless love towards everyone in this situation?

You say that your H doesn't think you are capable of having an A, and that he's so full of it. But speaking again, as a MAN, I can most assure you that he is definitely going to be woken up by the truth about your affair and if he truly loves you, he will see his part in your vulnerability that lead to your affair.