I told my WW that I did not want OM near our children again. She asked me what the difference would be between now and three months from now.

I said your married and your being a bad mother in front of your children by being with him because of it.

although I have to say thank you - last night when she was in her fog talk I looked at her and started laughing.. hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She was like - what are you laughing at? I said nothing and walked away.. thinking to myself BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH .. so thank you again..

hee hee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, my question now would be...what are you going to do when she does it again?

WSs that are deep within the fog act a lot like 4 year olds. They test every boundry, push every limit, throw huge temper tantrum when you tell them NO and pout insufferably when given a time out. A four year old says "I HATE YOU" a WS says "I DON'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE"...both are aimed straight at your heart and are meant to hurt you in to submission...to give in to their demands so they get their way. It isn't being a good parent to give in to the 4 year olds demands...nor is it a good spouse to give in to the WSs demands. Gotta be strong...gotta have firm boundries...and when pushed beyond...there HAVE to be consequences.

Actually, Hope, mine says "I hate you...". She is rotten.

L&C

I told you fog talk is funnier than hell, isn't it? I agree with Hope; be strong, stand your ground, and enforce the consequences. My W said the same thing about the OM and being around our kids. She actually said she didn't want me saying anything bad about him to our kids...so that when this is over and they are together our kids wouldn't be afraid of him. I just laughed at her and said that was his problem. If you have it in the decree that he is to stay away from the kids, enforce it. At the very least, I would think that the more you stack the deck in your favor, the less likely your W will be to go forward with the D. I have two police reports on my W. One for vandalism and the other for domestic violence. I think she realizes that she did herself no favors in terms of getting custody or the house. She has pretty much stopped all talk of D for now. I strongly think that you should file the complaint. Send her a message that you mean business and will not be bullied around.

My W gets all confused and upset whenever I keep a positive attitude in the face of her vile outpourings. It just blows her away when I smile and tell her: "well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I disagree." then walk away (this was when we still lived together). So if you actually laugh at her, I think you are getting to her. Keep it up. I sent you an e-mail the other day at your hotmail address, did you get it? What does she say when you bring up the idea of her leaving? I think Cerri advises guys to leave even when they are the BS, you'd have to ask her what she thinks about the situation.

Hang in there, Good Luck!

My reason for getting HER to leave is that it throws a huge monkeywrench in the convienence factor for the A. I suggest, along with that, that the children stay with you...which is why I asked if it could work with the childcare situation.

I read a terribly sad story about how infidelity effects children the other day. It really IS a big deal. They don't need to be subjected to that kind of confusion.

I agree with you both 100% the problem is I have no legal recourse to kick her out. I spoke with a friend of mine that is a Police man and he said that until the judge signs our Divorce papers at the first hearing that they are not in effect yet. So she actually isn't in contempt yet.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

She knows as well as I do that I can't kick her out .. same as she can't kick me out. I will NOT leave because of the abandonment to my family law and also because I am not going to let her carry on the A that easily. At the moment she has problems seeing OM because he works durring the day.. and I'm here at night so.... the only time they have been able to keep seeing each other is on the weekend when I'm at work .. but that hopefully will change. I had an interview with a company yesterday. It looked good, wish me luck! If I get that job she is going to really hate me because I will quit the Weekend job! She can go out on weekends and do what she wants but not with our children.

She is sitting here trying to pick a fight with me .. Telling me that no matter what I do it is not going to matter. That she hates me .. and that I don't love her. She started to read the post that I was typing. So I have to go I'll come back later

Well, I hope she reads this...


You're NUTS!!! I was in your shoes...I had feelings for someone else..but I BEGGED and PLEADED my husband to pay attention to me...to work on our marriage. Your husband is DOING THAT! He's ready and willing to meet your needs, to do what it takes to make you happy...and he LOVES YOU!! You're preparing to rip apart your family...you're acting like someone you yourself would have NO RESPECT for...and then you're angry because your husband actually cares enough to TRY! YOU'RE NUTS!! And you absolutely, and undoubtly WILL REGRET IT! I don't have to know you and I don't have to know your husband...the fact is in almost every case on this board..the WS comes back crying and begging when they realize the damage they're doing to their life. You better hope you don't run out of luck...because by then your husband may not care what you do anymore. And this other guy....oh, yea, he's a real winner. In every good movie I've ever seen the hero is ALWAYS rescuing bored wives down the hall from him and running off and hiding when the husband tries to confront him. Yup...real 'happily ever after' material there. You are aware that men KNOW that bored housewives go looking for attention, yes? You're playing right in to his hands...and one day you'll wake up with no husband, no money, divorced, all alone, and no one will care anymore...because your knight in shining armour will have found someone else to play with.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

Wow, Hope...can you talk to my WW next??? I think she needs to hear the same thing.

For what it is worth, I agree that ideally she would leave. That was my plan as well. I was going to change the locks and pack her a bag and leave it and the plan B letter on the step for her. Now, I got yelled at quite a bit due to the percieved harshness of that plan. As it turned out, my W moved out because I think it got way to hard trying to carry out the A under my watchful eye. Remember, I was video taping her lies, I was confronting her about everything, and I was actively exposing the A to family and friends. I think she just got tired of trying to get around me.

Maybe the same would work for you. Oh, and my W would read my posts here also. She would say that the stuff suggested here and that I was doing to save the M was doing more harm than anything that has happened so far. As if me trying to pull this thing out of the fire was MORE damaging than her A, right. Be prepared for that, it sounds like your W and mine are operating from the same play book, word for word. I think Hope called it "How to act like a wayward spouse 101", I agree.

Stand your ground, and NEVER, NEVER GIVE UP. It looks hopeless right now, but don't give up. This isn't your W, remember that. This is an addict.

Take care, Good Luck!

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

Oh, hey L&C, one more thing I got to thinkning about. It sounds liek your W is doing the same thing as mine in that she no longer feels like she has to hide her actions or the A from you. Sounds like she is getting pretty bold, throwing it in your face with more intensity. My W did the same thing.

Confront her anyway. When she says it is none of your business or that it doesn't matter or that the marriage is over; just ignore it. I kept holding my WW accountable for her actions even after the A was out in the open. Nobody else was, but I did. I think that is why she moved out, she was tired of comming face to face with her behavior. Just let her know that you know and how it makes you feel. Not that she will care right now, but that is what I did.

I just kept reminding my W (and I am no expert here, you know that) that she was still my W. Until a judge pronounces us happiily divorced, it is all my business. I also told her that she is still my W, still the mother of my kids, and I still love her...that is why I care, that is why it matters. Mind you, this was all under plan A, which you are still in.

The boldness is tough to deal with at times. It just seems like she does not give a rip about you or your feelings. Which, she doesn't right now. It is really hard, I know. Keep up the good work.

Wow - hope remind me not to get you mad at me ok <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My WW and I got into another fight today .. She kept trying to fight and I started laughing at her in her face .. can't imagine why .. but she got upset about it. She was like whats so funny .. I said you. and walked away . well then she heard me rustling around with a laundry bag and she thought I was in her stuff so she came storming in yelling what the F are you doing blah blah blah .. got an inch from my face and was yelling at me .. I told her to back up and she said make me .. I laughed at her and walked forward a little bit she pushed her hand over my face and pushed me back .. she did this like four times and finally I grabbed her arm and pushed it away.. she looked at me and said thank you .. I told her to go a head and call the cops it was self defense .. she said oh like they are going to believe you. Like you need to defend yourself from me .. gotta go again she just pulled up .

Dude, you are in deep. Good luck and keep up the fight.

Don't worry about the cops. When I called about my WW slapping me, they told me that without physical evidence it was basically her word against mine. Just keep your cool and tell them the truth. Besides, she probably won't even call. I think she is just trying to intimidate you. You ought to ask her, if this (your M) is over and she is going to be with OM, why is she wasting her time trying to fight with you? Sounds like you are just going about your business, what is her problem?

Anyway, good luck, she is in some thick fog...maybe she'll bump into my W..??? Who knows, but hang in there. I'll check back later.

OK I have two serious questions

#1. I need some help on figuring out what to say to WW family. I've decided that I am going to talk to them. I don't know if it is the right thing to do or not but I quess at this point it can't hurt any.

#2. Should I give my wife SAA ? would it even help? I don't know that she would read it .. but she might.

L&C...you need to quit fighting with her. It's a power struggle about who is right and who is wrong, and it won't get you anywhere. It just gives her exactly what she wants...justification to be angry with you. DON'T DO IT!!

You need to work on YOU right now, and work on detaching and being able to stay calm while your wife rages. While the laughter was a good way to confuse her from the start...at this point she probably feels you are mocking her. If you seriously want to turn this around, she doesn't need to feel like you're making fun of her...she needs to feel like you care.

I wouldn't try to bring HER family in on it right now, unless asked directly by them. I'm afraid you'll just look like a tattletale and chances are she's fed them her own story already. Unless you really think telling them will turn the situation around.

I've been reading Phil McGraw's Relationship Rescue. I've had it for years and never got around to reading it. Started it just before our DV was to be final, and luckily didn't need it. But I picked it up again recently, knowing it's chock full of good information, hoping it might offer some tidbits to offer to my SIL. I thought you might find this part interesting.

Accept your partner:

The number one need in all people, including you and your partner, is the need for acceptance. The number one fear amoung all people, including you and your partner, is that of rejection. The need for acceptance is so profound that I would venture to say that most, if not all, issues that cause conflict in a relationship ultimately come down to one or both partners feeling rejected - and in turn, wanting to feel accepted.

So the message should be obvious. There should be no higher calling for you than to meet your partners need for acceptance. If you want peace and tranquility, you must approach the task of managing your intimate relationship with a general spirit of acceptance. Sounds pretty simple, doesn't it?

But the problem is that when the relationships get sideways, the spirit of acceptance is the first thing that goes out the window. You get upset over an event in your relationship, you get a chip on your shoulder, you get angry, you get frustrated - and as a result you soon find yourself behaving in a way that makes your partner feel unaccepted. And once you do that, once the send the message that you are rejecting rather than accepting, he or she begins to feel so unacceptable that withdrawal or retaliation takes place - and the war is on.

The spirit of acceptance is a core requirement for nourishing reconnection. When you exhibit a spirit that indicates that you accept your partner, you're saying that even though you may not like everything that your partner is doing, things are still okay; we're goign to get along right now, and most important, we are going to feel safe with one another. You're saying that despite our differences in personality and temperment, despite all the thing I sometimes wish you were or weren't, the bottom line is that i accept you for who you are, and will always be there for you.

I hope you are beginning to understand why I say you have so much power to influence your relationship. You have the power to say, "I have to make my partner feel that I am not pushing him or her away just because we disagree about something. I can act out of a sense of goodwill so that even thought we may vehemently disagree, I don't send a message of rejection. I can back off my old attitude of judgement and criticism and choose instead the accepting spirit."

Genuine change with your partner is never going to happen unless you first let your partner know that you are able to knock that chip off your shoulder, put aside your frustrations and anger and disappointment, put aside your critical perfectionism, and display a benevolent spirit. You need to make it known that you will be a safe, loving place for your partner to fall onto. If your partner experiences in you the spirit of acceptance, then it is most likely that he or she will find you approachable. By having two partners who are moving toward each other, rather than both trying to seek safety from pain, the changes of reconciliation are dramatically improved.

I often wonder how troubled relationships would turn out if couples spent as much time and emotional energy finding and focusing on things to admire in each other as opposed to spending that same energy focusing on and picking away those things they don't like. What happens when you choose to approach your relationship with a spirit of acceptance is that you will automatically find yourself focusing on your partners assets and qualities rather than on his or her shortcomings. You can and will choose to spend time thinking about that which you appreciate, rather than that which you wish was different.

Pain is the price you pay for resisting the natural order of things - and nothing is more natural than supporting and accepting your intimate partner. The pain that you feel from resisting rather than accepting your partner is very likely much worse than the pain you experience during those times when your partner is doing something you don't like.

You are supposed to currently have a plan. Since you only work weekends, you have had time to get that together. What do you have???

The reason I ask is because you are currently being baited back in to HER plan. This will not get you the results you want.

So get your plan together, if you don't have it already, and REMAIN FOCUSED!!

Figure out what to say when she spews at you.

For instance:

I HATE YOU - I'm sorry you feel that way.

WELL I DO - I'm sorry.

You can't stop this divorce!! - Okay. I just want you to be happy. If that's what you want, then I won't stop you from divorcing.

This isn't what I wanted!! - Oh? What did you want?

Well, not this! But you did this and didn't do that and you're a big stupid hairy oaf!! - Yes, and I'm very sorry for that. I didn't realize how much it hurt you. I wish I could take it back, but what's done is done. I only hope one day you can forgive me. I will definatly do everything I can to avoid making those mistakes again.


etc....


Everything is productive...you never tell her she's wrong...you tell her you're sorry for hurting her, even though you don't openly admit to being or doing everything she says...etc.. You've GOT to turn this around and fast, because right now you're just trying to prove you're right.

You're supposed to be in Plan A. What are you doing that's fulfilling needs...and what are you still doing that's an LB.

Work on your plan.

I haven't been trying to fight with her .. honestly when ever she trys to fight I tell her that I do not wish to fight with her.

Ok the laugh thing .. I did take it a little far.. but I can't help it everytime she starts ranting it pops into my head.

I have been doing that as far as telling her that I'm sorry she feels that way and that I just want her to be happy ect ect ...

Today I said that I would pick our child up from school, she looked at me and said I wish you would have done these things befor, I wish you would have been this involved before .. of course all of this was before her tyraid and yelling and screaming at me.

I do accept her and do forgive her for this.. I know that alot of it is my fault as well as hers. The problem is .. she isn't willing to. I know that I still have aways togo to stop Lb'ing completely but I am trying. I have really been trying to stop "educating" her.

"pain is the price you pay for resisting the natural order of things - and nothing is more natural than supporting and accepting your intimate partner. The pain that you feel from resisting rather than accepting your partner is very likely much worse than the pain you experience during those times when your partner is doing something you don't like."

Thank you for the quote it was very deep.. and profound!

Ps: She hasn't told her mother anything other then we have been fighting.

She also hasn't said anything to her sister that is religious and very big on family.

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Lost&Confussed ]</small>

Well you're doing a good job then!!! And don't worry that there aren't extreme and immediatly obvious results. She showed some appreciation for the help you offered. Keep up the good work, and more good feelings will follow. Understand that she's still hurting and confused...so she's trying to make her decision an easy one by painting you as the bad guy. Now it's getting harder to do that because you are showing the ability to change. The thing is...and I can tell you this one from experience...instead of feeling gratitude, she's probably feeling more resentment. WHY didn't he do these things before. Why wasn't I enough for him to want to do these things when I asked before?? He's just trying to suck up and I'm not going to let him!!

She's rejecting you further because of the pain of caring....which means she DOES care. People who still care shouldn't get divorced...that's my opinion.

I just want you to think hard about telling her family. If you were to be in a situation where they were to ask, that's one thing. But if you just went out of your way to tell on her...well...that'd be a HUGE LB and probably one that wouldn't be forgiven any time quickly.

One possible suggestion....next time she brings up the divorce, ask her when the two of you can talk to her family about it. Tell her you want a chance to say goodbye. That'd probably freak her out!

I like that suggestion ! !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


"WHY didn't you do these things before. Why wasn't I enough for you to want to do these things when I asked before?? your just trying to suck up and I'm not going to let you!!

She has actually said those exact words!

I do know she still cares.. in the small things she does.. her actions towards me sometimes do not match her words. (like buying new pants for me, leaving the light on for me late at night. ect ect.. but I also think she is very serious about getting the divorce.) The problem I see is that I only have two months before our court date .. and she is still seeing OM .. not alot of time to fix things in ...
Although she does keep covering up our wedding picture.

My WW got mad at me last night for having a good time with the kids. My oldest wanted to make some mask ( Ballroom style ) so we went out and picked up the things we needed after school.

We started making the mask, she watched for a while then went to the store. When she came back they were done.. she started acting weird and I asked her what was wrong she said your trying to act like this great dad and doing all these fun things with the kids.. and all I do is all the work. I said I'm sorry you feel like you do all the work, but that is not true and you do alot of fun things with the kids ..she walked away.. that was pretty much the last thing she said to me for the night.

That fog is some amazing stuff. I'm glad your are being active with your kids though, no matter what she says. Keep it up!

Good Luck!

Hope do you think I should give SAA to my WW?

Well, my thoughts are that she'll reject it for a number of reasons. One, because it comes from you and will come off as educating, and two, because she doesn't want to believe that what she's doing is having an affair. I didn't either. I was just convinced my marriage was doomed and I just hadn't accepted it before...and that I was only just getting my cart a little ahead of my horse by thinking I might have found someone else already.

If you really want the information to be available to her...leave the book lying around 'accidently'. Maybe even cover it up just a touch so it looks like you were trying to hide it. That'll peak her curiousity. Manipulative? Maybe...but it worked for JR and I think 2long too.