I talked to my D this morning. She said WW has been fighting with OM. She said WW said that when she makes a big mistake its a BIG one and she told D to never make a mistake like this when she gets older. She asked D if she knew any good roomates for her. Sounds like she wants OM to move out. I'm in plan B and have pretty well done it right. Rarely any contact, only once actually, and sent the letter to W and OM when I went into plan B. I saw WW yesterday at D's football game but did not speak to her. I don't know if I should contact her now or let her make the next move. I don't really want to break my plan B, but she may need someone right now to talk to. Any help would be appreciated....

lwh,

Stay still ... this is plan B @ work !. It is designed so that OM competes w/ BS's shadow ! fillin ENs and LB'ng !. Be patient and wait ... she has to choose you as a better choice not as a last resort !.

WW is following WS's script ... you have to play your part as stated in plan B.

-rh

Thanks Redhat, I just needed some reassurances. Will hold tight and let it ride...

OM is not ready to take WW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I saw you just did plan B not long ago ... very good sign & don't get despair, brother.

What did you say to your D when she told you about 'mom's remorse' ?. This is important.

-rh-

I told D I still loved her mom very much and would forgive her if she wanted to work things out. D hasn't talked to W today. And W has not called. This is kinda unusual. She usually calls early on the weekend... Just wondering how she's doing. I tried to get my D's to call her but they just don't seem to feel like it right now. I told them I'm worried about their mom but they seem to busy to do anything for me. They just said, why don't you call her? I told them I would not talk to W unless she is ready to work on the marriage. I guess I just have to let things go for now...

We're in a similar spot...see my post "Nothing Keeps Happening..."

Sounds as though your WW is getting a healthy dose of reality. The OM is not such a good thing when day to day issues appear and have to be dealt with. I agree with the other folks that have replied to your post. Sit back and let the battle rage between WW and OM. Do your best to let her know that you are willing to take her back through your daughter. Maybe she will see the light once the fog is gone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>We're in a similar spot...see my post "Nothing Keeps Happening..."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you are not !, sorry AM. WW is remorsed and start sending signal and test the water !. Your WH is not even moving ...

lwh,
You passed the MB test w/ flying color <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . You did plan A your W correctly even in the mist of plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . However you need more than this ... she might still in the coaster, leave her alone ... she know what to do to go back home.

-rh-

Redhat: Not similar in the sense that his WW is dumping the OM, and my WH is being dumped by OW, it appears (or maybe it's mutual, I don't know). But similar in that we're in Plan B, but thinks are starting to bubble and we feel helpless.

I'm not sure WW is expressing remorse for what she's done in her marriage. She's expressing regret about her choice of partner -- which is different. She hasn't expressed any reconsideration of the M yet.

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

A.M.Martin,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW said that when she makes a big mistake its a BIG one and she told D to never make a mistake like this when she gets older.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess we need LWH to explain "this" ... to me is the whole A not just OM.

Anyway I don't want to thread jack. LWH got the point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

-rh-

#1 I think you need to keep the kids out of it. The fact that your daughter is running as a go between with info is not good.

#2 The effect of Plan B is starting to work, but with you sending messages back with daughter that you still love W and would forgive her...you will lose the Plan B grip and she'll slip right back in the fog. The point is DISCOMFORT. Let her sit in some for a while. When she's adult enough to quit b!tching about the state of her life and do something about it, then you'll hear from her....HER, not your daughter.

#3 STAY DARK Plan B is working...keep it that way.

I wasn't using my D as a go between. I just told her how I felt. I didn't tell her to tell her mother that and as far as I know, she hasn't. Besides, even if I told my D to tell her mom what I said, I doubt she would. I can't get her to clean her room much less do anything for me!!! I am staying dark and plan on continuing my plan B...

Since I found out about WW and OM fighting, I have become very emotional again. I had emotionally detached fairly well up until this point, but now it seems unbearable again. Is this normal? How do I emotionally detach again, when all I can think about is the possibility of WW and OM not making it? Need some words of wisdom. I know I must stay in my plan B but it is very difficult right now....

lost - are you doing Plan B activities?? working on your issues, exercising, feeding spiritual side, etc? I have been swimming, walking, exercising, organizing, in Bible study, cleaning and fixing up house, yard, detailing car. Haven't had any contact or encouragement from H, but dang, I look good, the house looks good, etc. To me, part of Plan B is NC/going dark with spouse, but the other part is taking care of YOU.

That's the problem with popping out of Plan B...it offers protection for you, and when you let the other stuff seep in and let you peek your head out...you are no longer protected. It's the same thing for a WS who is NC and who breaks that contact or sees the OP or whatever. It starts everything churning again for a while. And it does go away. So hang in there!! Keep yourself busy...do whatever you can to get your mind off of her and the what if's. Get engrossed in something else, and let your mind start to pull away from all the confusion.

LWH,

Listen very carefully to H4F. She is correct, and is coming from your wife's point of view.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the problem with popping out of Plan B...it offers protection for you, and when you let the other stuff seep in and let you peek your head out...you are no longer protected. It's the same thing for a WS who is NC and who breaks that contact or sees the OP or whatever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And remember this when she finally wakes up and decides to come home. remember how this felt to you to be unprotected. Then you will understand what she will have to go through, and the pain she will have to endure to get over OM and to regain her marriage.

My Plan B was the same. I was comfortable while I didnt know what was going on. Then one day she popped in to see the kids, mentioned that things werent well with OM (and then my MIL emailed me with the same thing)...and then I felt back on the rollercoaster. What was said above is right. Go to your Plan B activities...immerse yourself in them. Leave yourself no time for thought. Play sports or workout. Be tired when you go to bed. And so on.

In His arms.

<small>[ October 16, 2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Thanks for the support. I started 12hr shifts today, so I should be pretty engrossed in work for the next 2 weeks. Hopefully by then I'll have gotten myself back together. Actually today was fairly good... Thanks again for posting...

I wrote this in the plan B support thread the other day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I blew my plan B again, but I think it was good. I feel ok about it right now. I knew I was going to see my WW tonight at my D's volleyball game, so I wrote her a note. I was going to put it on her car windshield when I went to the game. Well, she came over to the house to pick up our D and usually she doesn't come in, but I loaned my car to my oldest D, and WW didn't know I was home. Anyway, she grabbed her mail and the letter I wrote. All the letter said was, I love you. Always, Me.

When I got to the game, WW was waiting by the door and asked if she could sit with me. I said ok. We talked a little and she said she wanted to go to at least one marriage counseling session to figure out how she feels. I told her that we really couldn't work on us as long as OM was in the picture. She said she wanted to go to one counselling session and then she would decide what she wanted to do. She said she would end it with the other man if she felt we had a chance. I know she is fence sitting and that's what plan B is all about but I think we both had to get to this point before we could go any further.

I don't know where this is going to take me, hopefully not on another rollercoaster ride, but I have to give us a chance. If nothing else, it has given me some hope. Up until now, she hasn't wanted anything to do with us. I also told her this had to be for us and not for the kids. She said she knew. So, maybe there are some feelings still there for me. I'm hoping, but I'm not going to let my guard down too far.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I talked with my WW the day after this and she said she really wanted to go couselling. So she tells me to set it up. At the time, I was so happy she was willing to do this that I didn't think straight. Why am I setting things up? Shouldn't she be putting in the effort for this?

She told me she didn't want to leave the OM just yet because he was losing his truck because he couldn't afford to pay for it and his wife is divorcing him. She says everyone blames him for all of this but she pursued him so she feels bad for him. Well, I told her that he knew what he was getting into and it's not her responsibility. She didn't say much about that. Am I setting myself up for a big letdown? Is this how other WS's act and then not go through with couselling and reconcilliation? I'm scared at this point and a little peeved. She is worried about hurting him and yet she doesn't seem to care how bad I'm hurting or she doesn't realize how much it hurts me. I feel like I'm going through what I went through when all this started... I guess I'm venting, but need some support...

LWH it is a total waste of time and money for her to go to counseling while she is still involved with the OM. This tactic is usually a ploy by many WS's to sooth their consciences that they 'tried' to fix the marriage when they really don't have the heart or will to do so. You might want to convey to her that it might be wise for her to go to counseling once the OM is nothing more than a bad memory.

Lost without her, I echo TMCM's opinion that it is a waste to do MC, and I list: time, money, emotions, and life while the WS is still in contact with the OP.

We did over a year of MC while my H continued his EA with the OW. The MC got paid every week, faithfully. Our marriage did not improve at all.

Your W needs to make a clean break, and stand on her own, and go through withdrawal. Once there is no contact, you can explore MC. (Since MarriageBuilders principles have gotten you this far, what do you think about counseling with the Harleys?)

It should be your wife who makes the first steps to initiate counseling. If you set things up, she will "go along with" it, but she won't have an investment. She has to want the counseling.

TMCM is right. A cheating spouse can use the counseling when they are still in contact with the affair partner as a sop to their conscience.

Seems to me you are making progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />