OK I am hearing everything you say, it does make sense and it is sinking in. You are the experts here and as you say have seen all of this before, have knowledge of WS fog talk, etc, etc....seen almost impossible situations turn around. I'm not sure what makes me think my situation is unique in that he won't come back, it's just a gut instinct I have and something I've felt from day one of him leaving.

BrambleRose, 18 months and he came back!!! WOW!! I feel really daft now in that I am thinking of giving up after only several months, but you know I have family and friends that are telling me to let him go, to move on, that are telling me constantly that he's been gone too long now for him to ever return. I know I shouldn't be taking any notice of it all.

Melody you are right. I did no major LB'ing, I was just setting boundaries and H didn't like the boundaries I was setting because they interfered with the way he liked things to be. But you see, this is why I think he would pursue and sweet talk, it was his way of merely trying to get me to lose my resolve so that things switched back to the way he liked things to be. Yes, I even think he told lies in saying he still loved me, knowing that I'd cave and give in to his whims again.......and it worked, for I would usually always cave.

Lately and as I've said previously though, he was expressing mo more words of love and hasn't for around four months.

I know that to leave him hanging in limbo, will make him think I've just cut him off. At this moment in time, he will not know where he stands. All he knows is that things were ok between us one moment and then the next moment I have cut him off totally because our daughter communicated his so called plans to marry OW. He has not even called in regard to seeing his daughter, so he probably thinks I have cut off the communication between them both too. I can see that I do have to let him know how things are and the way things stand, the sooner the better.

OK, after doing some thinking there is something that confuses me about PlanB.

In PlanB, the WS I feel, is still recieving reassurances that the LBS is still there for them, the same as he was reassured throughout PlanA. The PlanB letter give assurances that the LBS is still *waiting in the wings* for the WS to return if he wishes too, by way that through PlanB letter we are still letting our WS's know that we still love them, that we are still open to reconcilliation. We are laying down our terms on which we'd be open to reconcilliaton, yes.......but terms or not, the assurances are still being given that the WS can return and that the LBS is as I said, still *waiting in the wings*.

Now I could be wrong, but I thought the whole point of moving from PlanA to PlanB, was to cease from giving the WS the reassurances that we are still there for them ?? Surely it is not until those reassurances and ALL reassurances are taken away, that the WS is going to finally come to terms with the reality of the situation/start to suffer and feel any real loss of the LBS/marriage??

What is to say that I won't pass on this PlanB letter to my H and it makes him think to himself that he can still play away with OW for as long as he wants, because he knows that if he tires of her, he still has me to fall back on, because I've stated more or less so in PlanB letter??

IMO, my H would look upon PlanB letter and know his *safety net* was still intact, so he'd still be in no hurry to end this affair. Whereas the way things stand in my sitch at the moment, he won't have any clues as to whether I'd consider reconcilliation or not. So if I were to continue doing what I am now, perhaps and during the coming weeks, the reality of what he's done will come back to smack him in the face and he will then suffer and feel the real loss of me/our marriage.......enough to perhaps have second thoughts ???

No, you are saying that you are moving on because watching this train wreck up close is too painful and is depleting any remaining love you might have. *IF* he meets your conditions, then you can discuss reconciliation, but in the meantime, you are now focusing on your life. He can join the parade if he marches right, but the parade is moving on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
<strong>

IMO, my H would look upon PlanB letter and know his *safety net* was still intact, so he'd still be in no hurry to end this affair. Whereas the way things stand in my sitch at the moment, he won't have any clues as to whether I'd consider reconcilliation or not. So if I were to continue doing what I am now, perhaps and during the coming weeks, the reality of what he's done will come back to smack him in the face and he will then suffer and feel the real loss of me/our marriage.......enough to perhaps have second thoughts ??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But Lianne, you greatly risk DIVORCE if you keep doing what you are doing. Withholding his daughter from him will only motivate him to file for divorce. You will be forcing him to do something he had never planned to do. You are pushing him off the fence in the wrong direction. He will be in control if that happens. He needs to see his daughter and she needs to see him.

Your Plan B letter will lay it all out and take care of housekeeping issues so that he has no reason to contact CSA. It also places the ball back into his court while giving you CONTROL OF THE SITUATION.

LOL Melody, I bet you are sooooo sick of me today. It must be like trying to get blood out of a stone for you, when trying to educate us with these Plans <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Heck, this is what happens when I am sitting alone on a weekend and have wayyy too much time on my hands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I wouldn't care, over here we celebrate Guy Fawkes Night (Nov 5th), only the bonfire and firework display is being held in my town tonight. I'd would've liked to have gone there for a couple of hours, but with OW and H living in the same town, I have this dread of bumping into them. I've never seen them together yet at all. And other years H has always been with me and our D at these displays, so it would've felt strange going alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well anyway back to the posts.

There is no fear that my H will contact CSA......LOL! He knows that if CSA are contacted, then he will have to pay double that which he has been paying me. He infact has a fear that I will go to CSA. I can definitley rule the CSA out, unless of course it's me going there.

As for our D.....well I'm not exactly witholding her from him, he just hasn't called in regard to her. He probably thinks that because I am upset, hurt and angry, that he's wasting his time phoning because I will withold her to hit back at him. Untrue of course, but admittedly and I won't lie, I have witheld her before when he has failed to show with child support. I am of the opinion and I've also told him, that if he can't be a responsible father, which includes paying child support, then he can't pick and choose which dad roles he wants to play. Since then I recieved the child support every week, I never had to bug him for it.

Once he becomes aware that I am disallowing our D going to OW's, he will again think I am witholding her and that this is an attempt to hit back at him.....so I won't win either way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> He won't like the fact that I am disallowing her being around OW one tiny bit!! He did recently ask if he could have our daughter at OW's and his shack up for overnight stays, I refused point blank!! He has also asked if I would allow our D to go camping with he and OW a few months ago, again I'd refused. Yet I had allowed him to take our D camping, when he had gone camping for the night alone with OW's 11 year old son, when OW was out of town.

As for H, well the guy does know I love him, I've told him that I do numerous times, hence why perhaps this affair is still ongoing, he got too many reassurances from me you see. If I didn't love him, then I wouldn't have reacted to the news that he was thinking of marrying her in the way I did. Even if H didn't think I loved him any longer, he would still fight to win me back if he really wanted me.

Honestly Melody, if H wanted to come home, he'd find a way. I wouldn't have to make a path for him, he'd make his own path back.....but that isn't saying I'm ruling PlanB out, I'm just letting you know the type of guy he is.

There have been times in our marriage when he's left before, when we've had really huge arguments. Times when he's left and I've told him not to come back, that our marriage was over, that I no longer loved him........yet he has always found his way back without any help from me.

I guess I'm just of the opinion that if he really wanted me, really wanted to be with me, he'd be moving mountains to come back ~ I wouldn't have to do a thing.

Lianne

He isnt going to move mountains to be back with you because he hasn't lost you. Plan B is where your husband gets to experience what it is like to live without you.

Believe me, as long as you make it comfortable for him, he's not going to feel inspired to do anything but what he's doing.

Plan B isn't a manipulative game, like the ones you've been playing.

Melody's advice is absolutely on. She and I have both been around here for a long long time. There's probably very little that we haven't seen.

You can not follow your instincts in this situation. Follow the plan - it works if you work it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lianne,

Point of information. Your H is not engaged. He is not getting married to someone else, because he is married to you. He is not free to become engaged. He can become engaged when he is divorced, which is away off (if I remember UK law, a very long way off).

I, too, resisted the PB letter. I, too, thought it would be pointless when my H was living for four months with OW.

However, think of it as a parting shot. Think of it as your last big chance to make a very clear message, and a very clear statement of love. You are about to go dark. If he wants to find the way back, you are telling him how, for the last time. You are saying you would like to be there -- but it's obvious that he's taking his chances. Because in the dark days ahead, he won't know what you're doing, he won't know if you've changed your mind.

In recent posts, you have mentioned how he knows you are "angry," "hurt," etc. Well, this is your chance (we'll vet the letter for you, of course, if you post it) to say a message that has no anger, no whining, no b**ching, no moaning. Something strong, and clear -- your last call.

You will be able to reread this letter -- if you move to divorce -- and know that you gave it your very best shot, that there was absolutely nothing more that you could do. You will be able to reread this letter 20 years from now and WONDER at where you summoned the reservoirs of love and strength!


My Love Bank was pretty much drained to the bottom when I wrote mine. I had to pretty much summon up the ghost of a love I had had from memory. I pilfered freely from other people's PBLs on here, as I couldn't resurrect much emotion. But I know it was the absolute best I could do in the circumstances.

And that thought is a great comfort to me now. It will be a great comfort to you before you go dark. It will be a last, strong note in your aria.

BrambleRose

He isnt going to move mountains to be back with you because he hasn't lost you.

But H may be thinking that he has now lost me. He will have known that if I'd ever found out about his plans to D me and marry OW so soon, that I'd just cut myself from him. It's only a few weeks back that I'd even told H how easily I could just cut myself from him now, when he'd informed me that I *needed him*......LOL! Plus, he had also told our daughter *not to tell Mommy* of his plans, because if she were to tell Mommy, then I would probably disallow him from seeing our daughter and taking her to OW's again.

When I'd called him on the phone last Saturday, I'd told him "Goodbye, forever", also. I have since ignored all of his phone calls, so he will be thinking that he really has lost us both this time. I doubt he will be comfortable with all of this, although I'm sure OW will be greatly soothing him.

One thing for sure, I AM NOT going back to PlanA, that is a DEFINITE NO NO!!! The friendship we had IS OVER! I am there for him no longer, he gets to live his life now with OW FULL TIME, there is no more Lianne to talk too, to reassure him, to fill any need that I may have been filling ~ Lianne is now GONE!

So it's either, keep doing what I am, or get this PlanB letter drafted asap! Am off to find PlanB letters now anyway, type one and then I will send it over to see what you think.

A.A. Well we know they are not really engaged, how can they be when both are still married to other people? But these two clowns have still made their own pledge to marry each other, in the giving of watches, so to them it will be like being engaged.

I guess I am just having conflicting thoughts at the minute. One minute I'm thinking that perhaps if I'd stayed in PlanA, H might have come to his senses, realised that his marriage, me, his family was what he really wanted and then I'm thinking about what Melody says, that his affair will still most likely continue while he has both of us filling his needs. But then knowing of his plans now, I couldn't have gone on PlanA'ing any longer, I'd have ended up hating him, so PlanA is OVER.

I was enjoying PlanA too. H was even calling me *Darling* again ~ something he'd never called me for months. Am so annoyed that I found out this latest news of his and I've had to suddenly shift. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

My LoveBank for him is not quite empty, but it is teetering on empty. I guess that is why I could now just cut myself off and not bother with the PlanB letter. I keep thinking that with or without the PlanB letter, if H wanted me and our marriage, he'd come home regardless. If he doesn't want to come home, a PlanB letter is not going to bring him home ~ H has got to want to come home himself and if it's going to happen, it will happen when he's good and ready too, with or without PlanB letter.

But I am still going to draft a letter regardless because at the bottom of me, I do think I'd like to leave him with something, rather than just to disappear and that be the end of it all.

OK, I wonder if anyone can help me/or has the url for the PlanB letter thread. I recall seeing it once and there were lots of PlanB letters drafted there that people had written.

Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Here's a start:
Plan B letters

God bless,
Susan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
<strong>

But H may be thinking that he has now lost me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and that is what the Plan B letter will rectify. He hasn't lost you. He very probably WILL unless he does certain things. If he does certain things you will take him back. If you leave him thinking you won't take him back, then that is almost a relief for him in that you have made his decision for him by throwing him in the arms of the OW.

I am glad you have decided to write the Plan B letter. While its not a guarantee, I think it's your best possible hope. Good girl!

It's because you are teetering back and forth that you MUST write a PBL. If you go into Plan B darkness without PBL, one side of you will lure you back into contact. Some side of you will think that one kind word might turn the key, this time, on this particular day. That's why you have to give it a final shot. Then, in Plan B, you can remember your letter, and know there is nothing more to be said. You will have said it all. You will have said it as lovingly as possible, with no LBs.

Honestly, you sound just like me two months ago! But I can't tell you the relief it brought me. Even after he'd been living with OW for several months. Try not to imagine what their A is like -- you really can't know.

The point about engagement is that it's part of his fantasy. He hasn't filed for D, yet he's babbling about being engaged. It's like two eight-year-olds playing house. Is he going to divorce you without telling you, too? It's fog talk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>

Honestly, you sound just like me two months ago!

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No kidding! I was going to ask her yesterday if she was related to Anna Marie or if she had been to the Anna Marie school of objections! Thanks for weighing in here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LOL, perhaps he is thinking of committing *bigamy*
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Sure seems that way to me.

I mean, here he is supposedly engaged and going to marry OW next year, yet he already has a wife he hasn't even informed he's divorcing yet!! Strange goings on indeed!!

Anyway, thanks for that link Sue, am going straight there after posting here to pilfer some ideas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

No A.A., I will definitely not be lured back into contact with him, that is over. I have a really hard time in making decisions, but once I have made my mind up on something, I stick with it!

I know that to give him a *quick fix* will only serve to prolong his affair and give him the reassurances he may come seeking again. PlanB will also drag on a whole lot longer if he gets the slightest impression I'm still *waiting in the wings*.

I've given way too many reassurances in the past already via phone chat and I grew fed up of his talk and no actions. I sussed out what he was playing at a long time ago, but I played along with him regardless because I was living in hope. Now I can take him or leave him, the balls in his court.

If he calls, like Melody advised, he will be referred to PlanB letter. I will become the stuck record that he has been for this past several months.....LOL

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

I'm pretty much the same way once I make up my mind. On the other hand, if he telephoned and was loving and kind...well, I'm as much of a sucker as anyone. That's why it's nice I've sent the PBL. There's is absolutely nothing I can add to that.

In fact, I wish I were as kind and forgiving as the PBL made me sound! Fortunately, perhaps, I haven't been called on it! I know in person I couldn't match the letter I sent -- it was the ambassador of my best side. Shutting up is the best follow-up to an act I can't top. And if we move into silence forever, which seems likely, then I am glad I ended on my highest note.

(And yes, MelodyLane, I am the Annamaria of the Objections!)

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Annamarie, I met another one of your graduates today on the forum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

???????

He had 10,000 reasons why it wouldn't work "for him!" I thought, here is A.M. all over again, what is it a full moon?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />