Consider letting him know that he is responsible for your daughter on Saturday's. If he is not available, he needs to arrange for childcare and that you would like to be offered to be that childcare if you are available, but otherwise it is his responsibility.

Lianne- You state he does care for daughter even though his actions prove otherwise. Sorry, these people are all the same. The only thing that does mean anything is action. Talking is just more BS. Get support as soon as possible. Your H is in the fog and will not take care of D, you need to.

Well, I got my first sighting of him in four weeks. He drove past my home a little earlier and had a good look through my front window, taking his eyes off the road and almost breaking his neck to do so. Driving past my home isn't a route necessary to him either, for he lives at the other end of town so there is no need for him to drive anywhere near where I live. Still no calls anyway, Monday was ALWAYS a day he phoned, but besides this....

You are right Melody, our daughter should and does come first with me above all and everything else. Throughout this whole mess, my only concern was for her wellbeing ~ if she was and is OK, then I am OK too. I couldn't give a damn how he chooses to treat me ~ I am an adult, I can deal with it. But I won't tolerate him using, hurting and having our eight year old daughter go without, as his warped way and means of spiteing me.

She talks of her dad a lot and I can tell she misses him. She asked this afternoon, what did I think he would get her for Christmas. I didn't know how to reply......I don't have answers to anything she asks anymore. It makes me soooo angry that the jerk has seemly now decided our daughter isn't good enough to find the time for, now he can't take her to OW's.

And so I have decided that I am going to CSA and am going to make an appointment with them tomorrow. As you say, it is high time he faced the consequences for his actions and faced the responsibilties a normal father has to........ie: paying child support, full amount every week and without fail....and not *pay for visitation* as and when he felt like it and as he preferred.

Thanks anyway for your help and advice Melody, will let you know how I go along in the next update <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

Thanks also wannabophim and Believer for contributing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Believer you are right, he is sooooo still in the fog and eight months after leaving! But you know he was a great dad at home, doted on our daughter, she was *daddys girl* and always has been. Even after he first left he was always phoning wanting to see her....then eight months later and now he sees he's not getting his own way, now he can no longer take her to the shack up he shares with OW, he doesn't seem to want to know anymore. Things have changed A LOT, he has withdrawn totally, since I found out about his plans to marry OW and since I stopped him taking our D to OW's.

Something else I remembered. H always said that if I took him to CSA, he'd quit his job, go onto government benefits so that he didn't have a penny to pay to me!! The fool doesn't seem to realise that it is not ME that will suffer and go without, it's our DAUGHTER who will!

He must be one of the worst WS's on this board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
<strong> Well, I got my first sighting of him in four weeks. He drove past my home a little earlier and had a good look through my front window, taking his eyes off the road and almost breaking his neck to do so. Driving past my home isn't a route necessary to him either, for he lives at the other end of town so there is no need for him to drive anywhere near where I live. Still no calls anyway, Monday was ALWAYS a day he phoned, but besides this....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess he IS thinking about you, isn't he?

hmmm, he's more than likely to be curious as to why I have not phoned him about this missed child support/his daughter. Not phoning about such things is a different behaviour for me, so he's bound to be wondering what's going on at my end.
For all he knows I could have upped and moved away without telling him.

I guess he could have also passed by in the hopes he'd see our daughter out playing, as she was five weeks ago when he'd decided to drive by. He'd stopped his car, called her over and gave her a kiss, then was off on his merry way again. She was not out playing last night however.

Wishful thinking I guess, but he may be very slowly waking up and is slowly realising now what he has to lose ~ I won't be holding my breath of that being the case though.

Lianne, you never can tell what is going through their minds. But it does look like he is definitely thinking about y'all. Hope you are doing well today!

Yeah I guess he is Melody, however he really is beginning to seem like a distant memory. You know something, I awoke this morning and for the first time throughout this past eight months, my first waking thought was not about him......it was about this new 28" widescreen television I'm having delivered today that my dad has kindly bought me......LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Something not MB related. Found out last night that USA President, George Bush is flying into Teesside airport over in England tomorrow and I live five miles away from Teesside airport.......woohoooo, might go see if I can catch a glimpse of him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
[QB] Yeah I guess he is Melody, however he really is beginning to seem like a distant memory. You know something, I awoke this morning and for the first time throughout this past eight months, my first waking thought was not about him......it was about this new 28" widescreen television I'm having delivered today that my dad has kindly bought me......LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am glad to hear it! That is one of the benefits of Plan B, you quit obsessing with the WS and start living a little. Enjoy the new TV!

I am watching Bush give his speech in England it is pretty funny. He said 'you folks accuse Americans of being "puritans," gee, I wonder where we got that???" hehee

After hearing absolutely *zilch* from my WS for three weeks, (he hasn't even cared to call on the phone about his daughter or shown any interest in seeing her), three weeks in which he has also witheld child support with absolutely no word as to why??? ~ he decides to call on the phone today and acts like everythings just fine between us, although he did sound emotionally charged, quivering voice, like he were holding back tears ??

His first words were "Hi Lianne, I have some child support for you that I will drop off tomorrow, can I see our daughter this weekend"?

Well....how was I too react to this? I'm not that pleased nor happy that he thinks he can just walk out of our lives as he pleases, (especially our daughters) and then walk back in and expect that everything be just hunky dory and ok, because it isn't. But anyway, I'd asked him what had happened over the past three weeks and why he hasn't had visitation to our daughter/paid no support and he replied that he had been working almost every hour God sends......yeah ok!! I'd told him that I was tired of this *pay for visitation* scheme he had going.

I'd then asked if he would be collecting our daughter tomorrow afternoon, (Saturday) as I had stressed to him in our last phone call that he no longer was to take our daughter to his and OW's shackup on Sundays, to which at the time he'd seemed to agree with me and it was his idea to have visitation on Saturday instead. And then after I'd asked if he would be collecting our daughter tomorrow, he'd said "No, I want to see her on Sunday"......which would have meant him taking our D to OW's again!!! He doesn't seem to hear me!!

I reminded him that in our last phone call, I'd said that he wasn't taking D8 to OW's anymore, to which he replied I was being unfair!!!!!! I replied "H, our daughter is not going back there and that is my final word". I also told him that I didn't see why he couldn't collect our daughter tomorrow afternoon, take her to McDonalds or someplace and spend a couple of hours or so with her alone and I'd also reminded him that there was nothing even stopping him from collecting D8 after she finished school and he finished work through the week, when he could again spend time with her.

When he sensed that I wasn't going to back down, he'd then said "OK, I will work something out, regardless there will be money there for you tomorrow". I'd said ok and then we both said goodbye.

I'm not counting on him keeping his word. My guess is, is that he won't show up and he will withold child support yet again to spite me for disallowing him to take our D to OW's.

After three weeks of NC, he's been hoping that my resolve would have weakened by now. He may have also realised that it was gonna be a cold day in He!! before I was gonna phone him, so he's had to phone me first ~ his game didn't go according to plan!!

Little does he realise that the longer he stays away, the longer he continues to spite me and deprive our daughter of himself and child support, then I grow MUCH MORE STRONGER. I'm more determined now to keep our daughter away from his sleaze, than I ever was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lianne, it seems that he definitely does think your daughter is a "pay-for-view" operation and I would implore you to contact the CSA. For the 2 reasons that I gave above: to ensure your daughter has her support and to shine the light of reality on his little fantasy. It would also help set up formal arrangements so you can avoid talking to him and stay true to your Plan B.

I think it hurts your position by having to hash this all out with him over and over again, espeically when you are in Plan B. If CSA is handling the CS payments, that takes the discussion out of your hands and he won't do a no show when he can't cough up the money.

I hope you are doing well. You sound stronger and stronger with every post you make. I sense that you are getting more and more in charge of your emotions and your situation! That is no easy feat in such an emotionally charged situation. You are doing great!

Don't fill your heart with hate and anger for the OW (easy to say, hard to do, I know), but she didn't do this to you (yes, she played a part in your hurt) but the final decision was your WS. He choses to bring your daughter to the OW's home, knowing how you feel about it. Save that anger you have for OW and use it in court to get financial help for your child! Your anger should be directed at your WS and his ACTIONS ONLY. He is neglecting your child and that is far worse than anything the OW has done thus far. You need legal help to make sure he doesn't continue to NOT take financial responsibility for your child whenever he feels like it. JMO

Trying2_4give, I wouldn't flatter the OW in giving her any of my anger and hate ~ the woman is a non entity in my book and doesn't exist. Hard to ignore her existence though, when H will keep reminding me she exists, by way of wanting to take our daughter around her. I know it's all his fault and that he has choices. He chooses to keep on being an insensitive pig, an insensitive cad to both our daughters and my feelings in wanting to take our D to OW's, as opposed to collecting D8 and sharing their time together alone as father and daughter. Well...he's had it good up until now, but those days are over!!

Melody, it's like talking to a five year old child, when talking to him. You know sometimes when you have to keep on repeating yourself to a child because they seem to have misunderstood the first time around?? LOL. This is what he is like.

The conversation we had was kept strictly to do with D8, visitation and child support. There was no other chat, joking, laughter, telling him of things happening at home, etc, etc, as there used to be.....that is all over.

No mention of the PlanB letter btw. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'd stipulated everything in there. How he had to send child support to me via cheque through the post and to stick to a proper routine in regard to visitation to D8 - he collects her Saturdays at 10am and return her at 4pm, while waiting in his car outside for her. Seems he's heard none of that either, so I'm gonna have to remind himof that and keep repeating it till I get through to him also.

If he calls with child support, chances are it will be early in the morning and he will drop it through my letterbox as he did four weeks back, so we won't have contact. I have an appointment with CSA this Monday morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
<strong>

I'd stipulated everything in there. How he had to send child support to me via cheque through the post and to stick to a proper routine in regard to visitation to D8 - he collects her Saturdays at 10am and return her at 4pm, while waiting in his car outside for her. Seems he's heard none of that either, so I'm gonna have to remind himof that and keep repeating it till I get through to him also.

I have an appointment with CSA this Monday morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GOOD GOOD!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am glad you did both things. Given that you stipulated the visitation schedule in your letter, you can just refer back to that letter at every oportunity. Sort of like a broken record. Very good on setting up the appt with CSA.

I really feel that will be the start of a much needed WAKE UP CALL for him. He has lived in la-la land with no consequences for a long time. He has been able to delude himself into thinking that he was doing nothing wrong up until now. NOW there will be consequences to his actions.

Lianne, how was the weekend? Did he show up for his visitation? How are ya, doing?

Hi Melody <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, he didn't show up yesterday but he did call on the phone to explain why. He said he'd been called to work unexpectedly that day and I couldn't believe my ears when he asked if he could collect D8 the next day (Sunday). I YET AGAIN had to repeat that he was not taking our daughter to OW's home and then I'd hung up on him because I'm growing sick of having to repeat things and have him take no notice.

He called back two minutes later and then told me that he had no intentions of taking our daughter to OW's, he had planned to take her to the local park and spend a couple of hours there with her. However after saying this, he'd said that I was just being awkward in regard to our daughter going to his & OW's, that I was trying to make things as difficult as possible for him and that I was making it hard for him to see our daughter as he worked lots of hours these days. I told him I was merely setting boundaries as to what is/is not acceptable, something I should've done a long time ago - it's down to him how he chooses to follow up on these terms, including it being HIS responsibility to ensure he still sees his daughter, I told him.

He then began bleating on about Christmas, he has lots of presents for D8 and if she doesn't go to OW's, then she won't recieve them, he wouldn't get to see her open her presents (said in a verrrry whiny voice). I told him that he had a car, he knows where we live - what is to stop him bringing her presents to my home?? I'd then suggested that if he would like to see our daughter over Christmas, then he could come to my home with her pressies and spend a couple of hours with her alone and I would leave them alone together and go to a friends home. So he agreed with this. I asked him if he'd recieved a mail from me in the post, he says he has recieved nothing from me ???? Should I send another or hand deliver it to him? I'm thinking maybe the OW saw it, perhaps destroyed it.??

Anyway, he called this morning as he said. I sent D8 out to the car, then she returned and said that dad wanted to see me - so goofed with NC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
He handed me the child support, said he was just going to sit with D8 in his car outside for 10 minutes as he had to rush to work, (I didn't believe him), then he began trying to make small talk, I said I was busy and closed the door.

He sat in car outside with D8 for around 10 minutes, then D8 came in and said that dad wanted to see me again!! He was stood on the step outside and when I went to the door he told me that he might come and collect D8 one night through the week, I said OK. Now why couldn't he just have asked D8 to pass that message onto me?? LOL!!

I dunno, not sure what to make of it all. I think I need to deliver this PlanB letter by hand, so I know he recieves it and so that when he calls I can keep on referring to him that constantly.....else I'm gonna end up falling back into the pattern we were in before. I need a firm plan.

Lianne, good job of holding your ground on the OW's house. The thing I worry about is all this communication in Plan B. I agree with you that you should hand him that letter or send it to his work. That way, when he starts talking about going to OW's you can sound like a broken record and say: "please refer to my letter, thank you." And make SURE he knows that you sent to his house previously and it wasn't given to him.

Another thing here and maybe I am reading this wrong. It is REAL important that when you talk to him, you are FIRM but very kind. It will not do for you to belittle him, guilt him or lord over him with a sanctimonious tone. Even though you certainly have every right to do all of that, it will HARM your situation. Its very unfortunate that you have to deal with him AT ALL because it undermines your Plan B, but please make the best of what you have to work with and avoid ANY untoward, judgemental behavior. ok?

About Christmas. Do you really think its a good idea for him to come over on Xmas? That is almost like rewarding him for dumping his family. He CHOSE to give all that up, remember? He chose to give up family Christmas.' Why accommodate him? Why ruin your Xmas by having to leave for several hours to accommodate him? Your daughter does need to see him over the holidays, but couldn't he take her to dinner on Xmas eve and let her open her presents then? I know it will be hard on your daughter, but those are the choices her own father made for her. Think about it and let me know what you think.

See, he will be feeling guilty ALREADY for not spending the entire Xmas day with his family. If you let him come over, that will only help him evade some much deserved guilt. Much better for you and daughter that he spend his ENTIRE day in a strange place feeling guilty and missing his real family. Don't help him AVOID a very natural consequence that can only HELP bring him back to his senses and out of la-la land.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He then began bleating on about Christmas, he has lots of presents for D8 and if she doesn't go to OW's, then she won't recieve them, he wouldn't get to see her open her presents (said in a verrrry whiny voice). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, gosh, Lianne, makes you just wanna cry for the poor man, doesn't it! Is he living with OW? Why can't he have D to his house? Or maybe to his parents if they're around. Not sure if coming to yours is good in Plan B. I say let him have the chance to miss you all over the holidays.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I need to deliver this PlanB letter by hand, so I know he recieves it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe have it delivered by singing telegram!

I'm glad you stuck to your convictions about D being around OW. I'd suggest you do so in a "nice" way: let him know you're hearing him but are firm on this. Something like "I know this makes it difficult for you but D cannot be over there. She'll enjoy some daddy time with just the two of you."

My WAS dropped a check off this afternoon when I wasn't home BUT instead of leaving it on the porch as requested, guess what, he left it INSIDE my house! The door was locked and he doesn't have a key. I'm just furious! Nothing else appeared disturbed but I don't trust him.

I replied to you earlier on Stole my Plan B Thunder

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lianne37:
<strong>

He then began bleating on about Christmas, he has lots of presents for D8 and if she doesn't go to OW's, then she won't recieve them, he wouldn't get to see her open her presents (said in a verrrry whiny voice).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">okok, call me the afterthought Queen, but something hit me as wrong when I read this sentence and it didn't hit me until now.

Is he so fogged out that he can't see the blatant IRONY in this complaint? Good grief, the REASON that he won't be able to see his daughter open her presents is because *HE* left his family for the OW! The person to whom he should whine is in the mirror. This eventuality is a direct consequence of HIS CHOICES. He has ANOTHER family now.

And Lianne, I had to really chuckle at the phrase "bleating on!" A goat?! hahahahaaa That is hilarious! You Englishfolk are a hoot!

<small>[ November 23, 2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>