I will try to be brief, but a lot has happened since I last visited MB. My story in short form:

WH and I have been married 10 years this coming Dec., together for almost 12. Our communication has been shaky for about 4 years. In 2/03 I learned from WH of his A w/OW which occurred in 6/02 over the course of a weekend but was told it was a one night drunken stupid incident. OW lives in another state. I forgave and forgot over next few weeks.

On 7/16/03, I discovered through investigating that WH and OW picked up physically in 6/03 where they left off last year, again over a 3 day weekend music festival. I was told by WH that they had not kept in touch for the year between the two weekends. I now believe this statement to be a lie (based on his body language when asked again).

I went to see an atty. on 7/18/03 who recommended SAA before deciding what to do. I read it cover to cover and asked my WH to do so which he did. We started Plan A but he did not write NC letter, instead he called her which was not a good start. Since OW has had 2 previous A on her BS, she was telling my WH, that he'll end up coming back to her. Plan A was great, but only lasted 5 days. WH was on the fence so many times that he decided to move out which I said both (you can stay here, and also said it may be better for you to distance yourself). But I made it VERY clear that it would not do him any good to go be with her while he's deciding what he wants.

He moved out only the essentials and into a camper. He missed me and his kids a lot for the first 1 1/2 weeks. Then I discovered he lied to me and the kids that he had a business trip; when in fact the OW arrived in town for a 4 day vacation w/him. This event made me start Plan B, but I was a bit weak and it was not 100% all of the time and instead, it pushed him right into her arms.

We did start MC on 7/17/03 and went 1x/every 1 1/2 - 2 wks, which probably was not enough, don't know. Anyway, he said some pretty awful, ugly things to me during the last 2 sessions that lead me to believe he was planning to leave me and kids for good for the OW. This prompted me to seek atty. again. Meanwhile, WH told me he found a house and made offer on, which I was okay with I guess. When I told my atty. this and that WH plans to use our Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) to fund the down pymt. which I also was blindly okay with. My atty. said absolutely do not let him use the HELOC to fund it, since I do not know what he is thinking and would be opening myself up to financial liability if he defaults. I said to her, he's not that type, she said I've heard that line before from other clients who didn't listen to me and were sorry later. So on the advice of my atty. and our banker, I froze the HELOC. (I took the baby step cuz he could unfreeze it). I just couldn't bring myself to close it entirely. I also bought a newer car (something WH and I talked about doing for the past 8 months or so). The next a.m., 9/10/03, my WH called and said what's up with the HELOC? I told him what atty.'s advice was. He asked did I just freeze it or close it. I said I would tell him tonight at our next MC. He said "I knew you would renig on our agreement of me getting a house, and I want to split our accounts now so I am not paying anymore for your atty." He said "If you want to play dirty, I can too or something like that. I said I am not, I told my atty. that I cannot and wouldn't play hardball, which she said it's not hardball honey, its financial protection. My WH then said, "Well, we ARE getting a divorce". I asked when did you decide this? He said about 10 days ago, (9/2/03).

He called me about 4-5 other times that day trying to get me to listen to and agree to a few financial plans he had prepared. During one conversation, he said I was being uncooperative which sent me to the roof. I screamed at him on the phone about how cooperative I've been in having to watch and know him having an affair right before my eyes knowingly and you call that uncooperative I asked? I reluctantly decided to drive the newer car to MC that night, BAD idea. As soon as I drove in, he immediately began goating and provoking me by saying loudly "NICE CAR". Once inside, he provoked me enough where I hit him. He had a smirky smile on his face, cuz he knew he accomplished what I believe he set out to do in the first place Heinsight 20/20 (which was get me arrested so he can go home to our kids and clean the house out of anything he wanted to take.) I was so distraught when our MC came out of her office during someone elses session, they split us up. The counselor who talked to WH tried convincing him not to call police, but he did anyway. I have never done anything remotely like this before so I was devastated and humiliated once again. From jail, I called our banker and ordered the HELOC be closed immediately.

He had to find other means for the dwn. pymt., but closed on his house in mid Oct. The OW and her 9 y/o moved in the next week and still are. Since then, our kids have met OW and her kid.

That night, my heart turned to stone. The next day I arrived home to find a letter from him explaining that he closed all bank accounts, credit cards (except my individual one) thank the Lord, and disconnected the phone, and took every financial paper, our computer (this is why I haven't been on MB since 9/10/03 as ABF) and every gun/rifle and every pertinent business paper for our business among other smaller trivial things. The next day I actually retained my atty. and began the process of filing, (only because WH told me that we are getting divorce so I only assumed he really meant it).

Since that day, it has been a long long journey to where I am at today. The next week I voluntarily entered myself into an Anger Management class which I am halfway done with now. I have come a long way since then, but mostly within the past 2 weeks. My WH moved the rest of his belongings and the things that we agreed he would get in the divorce out of our house 2 weeks ago. WH family is very torn over this because they really feel badly for me and miss me, and miss seeing the kids as often as before.

Within these past 2 weeks, I have shed a lot of the anger I believe, mainly because of the Anger Mgtmt classes and it's been 3 months now since we last spoke openly and calmly and affectionately to eachother. Just this past week, I also signed the first draft of temporary relief divorce papers which was very emotionally draining. I have missed him dearly during these recent weeks and am 2nd guessing my decision to being the one who filed. Now that I am back to visiting the MB website, I really am 2nd guessing after reading a lot of posts saying "give it time, the grass will start turning yellow", to don't worry, the OP will show true colors soon, to don't give up for your kids sake. This really eats at me, since my kids are so young to live w/o dad but the oldest not too young to know enough of what is going on. So I am back to having that fighter, never give up on him attitude in me. I just don't know if he feels the same way and the curiosity is driving me nuts.


My questions for everyone who reads this are:

1. Even though I filed and signed the 1st phase of the divorce papers, is there still hope?

2. Since I have not been able to start letting go of the anger until recently, and for that reason have not apologized for hitting him, should I do so this late in the game?

3. If I decide to just legally separate, and he agrees not to pursue the divorce, How can I just get on with my life while waiting for his to die its natural death?

4. Has anyone out there been through this rocky of a split during the A and managed to find their way back to eachother and if so how long did it take?

5. Any other advice on anything else is SURELY WELCOME.

Sorry if this recap got to be too long for some.

Looking forward to your responses.

Foreverfaithful (FF)

bumped up

Wow. What a painful ride. May God heal you as only he can.
I think it always is the right time to acknowledge the wrong we've done (the hitting).
Don't continually beat yourself up for it or let him abuse you by rubbing your nose in that mistake.
Confess it, ask forgiveness, don't self-justify and then go on in freedom.
[his willingness to quickly turn you in is rotten but you will have to forgive him even if he never asks for it - for your own healing]

You can put the D proceedings on hold and tell him you are doing so to give the marriage one last chance.

Don't despair. Good news is coming.
God bless FF.

ff, have you considered going to the Harleys for some guidance? I think your situation looks pretty dismal, but who knows, things could change with a dedicated Plan A. The Harley's could get you on the right track.

I would suggest putting the divorce on hold but leaving all of your financial protections in place. No matter what, you have to protect yourself financially. I can't tell if you regret your decision to stop the home equity loan, but that was absolutely the right thing to do. You shouldn't finance your H's affair.

Of course it was wrong to hit him and he probably is very upset about your new car. I would certainly apologize for hitting him or any other crazy thing you did to him. Maybe tell him that recognize the role you have played in all this mess and apologize for hitting him, disrespecting him, etc, etc and that you want to assure him that it will stop now.

Tell him that no matter what happens in your marriage, you would "like to be friends for the sake of the children." blah blah, blah. Just something to break the ice and bring down his defenses a little. Tell him you know you have been unreasonable and are in anger management classes. That will just be a START. And then you can reinforce your new attitude by being nice to him every opportunity you see him.

I personally don't think this is completely hopeless if you think you can control yourself and conduct a solid Plan A. It will take some time, but eventually his affair is going to go sour. By living together, they have eliminated the thrill of secrecy that existed in the affair. If you do a good Plan A, you will be sitting there as a very attractive option when the affair falls through.

Here is some good reading material about Plan A:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=000176

P.S. You are Irish, right?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

bump for more responses please from anyone, especially all you MB recovery vets out there

Thanks
FF

bump for more responses please from anyone, especially all you MB recovery vets out there


I have spoken with Steve Harley twice with the last time being just before the arrest.

I also have regretted closing the HELOC a few times, but also logically know that it was the right decision since if he was going to leave anyway, I would still maritally be stuck with at least 1/2 that debt or all which I would not be able to afford. I am barely scraping by as it is now since he left me with $0.00 and a slew of checks which he knew would bounce to be covered.

A mess I know. I am slowly crawling back up from the bottom of the cliff I was thrown from.


Thanks
FF

ff, I am not sure I would be considered an MB vet, but I have been around for a little while and tried to respond to your post. Did you even read my post or was I wasting my time?

<small>[ November 08, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

FF,

Read what Mel wrote. She is pretty good about removing the emotion and exposing the real issue so that viable options can be considered.

Protection of the family and the assets s/b priority right now. If $$ is tight, then vent here. Save up for counseling sessions ASAP.

Keep yourself safe. If anger peaks when dealing with the WS, then go to plan B. Write out your thoughts. Keep a journal. Never apologize for protecting the rights of your family. A WS does not appreciate things done in your family's behalf and certainly does not appreciate things done in the WS behalf. Why? Because NO one in their right mind would do what a WS wants (which is a selfish A).

Read Mel's info and link again. I think you will have a better perspective this time around.

Hugz,
L.

MelodyLane,

Yes, I did reply to your reply. I replied two times and answered most if not all your very valid points. Thank you very much. I also did look at the other old read only post. I think I need to re-read the book too.

I will reply more tonight. I just wanted you to know you are NOT wasting your time with me. I appreciate all your info very much and will put it to use.

Thank you.
FF


Orchid,

Thanks, I will save up for the sessions cuz I think it is definitely worth it. Steve was very informative for me. I will write more later tonight after kids are in bed.

FF

Jeepers. What a terrible story.

I think you have to take responsibility for hitting him, yes.

I think you will need to let your lawyer get you through this. I understand that you don't want a divorce right now. Still, it's important to make sure that you and your family are well-protected right now. Both from your husband AND from further violence on your part.

I would also suggest that you need to be in Plan B. Your emotions got the best of you, and that's a PRIME reason why you ought to be in Plan B. Apologize for hitting him in your Plan B letter, and make sure you check with someone professional (Cerri or the Harleys) before you send it. But you need a ton of help and now is NOT the time to be trying to make nice to your H.

Good luck, girl, and let us know how you're doing.

MelodyLane,

Hi again. I hope I have not offended you in any way. I definitely have read every person's posted reply to all my threads. I am almost addicted to logging onto this site for guidance. I am also really turning to God during all this. I pray daily for the strength to just go onto the next day and for my WH's heart to be convicted and wake up from the fog. I believe with almost my whole heart that once the fog lifts for him, he will ask to come back.

If this happens, what do people usually do who want their WS's back? Should I welcome him back into our house with open and unconditional arms, or do I ask that he stay living on his own for a bit longer to work on him first before we work on us?

I definitely need to brush up on the basic concepts of SAA book and both Plan A and Plan B. Since I have been in both Plans and WH now lives with OW, should I just continue to have kid related contact only with him and not send a new Plan B letter. I ask since JustJ below suggests to write Plan B letter, apologizing for hitting him.

Thanks for reading.
FF


JustJ,

I have already written a Plan B letter to my WH, a great one I might add, but there was extremely little reaction to it if any. This surprised me dearly, especially since I poured my heart into it. I do not even know if WH has any interest of trying again at some point, even if/when his A turns sour. I do know at some point I will apologize to him for hitting him.

I don't know what else to say. Thanks for the information. I will keep people informed.

FF

Hi FF,

No offense at all. I just wasn't sure if you had read my post. I wouldn't suggest going into Plan B at this point at all without first having done a thorough and consistent Plan A.

If you go dark now, he will only be relieved. Right now he just remembers all the trauma from your lovebusters so Plan B would be a welcome relief. If you go to Plan B that is all he will remember. You need to give him something good to remember before you go dark.

Going into Plan B when you haven't demonstrated your best side or built up a love bank is self defeating. First you need to demonstrate your best side to him. If not, when/if he ends his affair, he won't have any reason to come back to you.

I think you need to give him a reason to come back by executing a program of attraction. As it is now, you are the enemy and look pretty bad compared to the OW. You need to rework this image so that when things fall apart with the OW, you are the one looking good. See what I mean?

MelodyLane,

Thanks, I do however, definitely need to re-read the SAA book. I got it from the library before, so I don't have it with me. Could you summarize Plan A a bit for me?

I think you know this from what I've wrote so far, but I'll repeat it, I have already done both Plans A & B, but during Plan A, WH only lasted a week and then moved out.

This is what I would like to do, but don't know if it is the correct action to take in the form of Plan A: I would like to somehow get together with WH somewhere quiet w/no distractions one on one to tell him this: I am deeply sorry for the pain I've caused, both before the A and especially for LBing (hitting) you. Since being in Anger Management classes, I have really grown as a much calmer person and have been able to shed quite a bit of the anger I had towards you. I do NOT wish to move forward with this divorce, but rather feel I am much healthier and capable now than before to give you the time and space you need to figure things out.

What do you think? Is this the way to go about it? Since Dday I have been working on myself tremendously. I've lost 30 pounds, wear makeup daily, fix hair daily and am keeping up after household chores better (even though I was doing fine before), and am a calmer person. I still get angry, but I am better tuned into the signs of me getting angry at which time I tell myself to settle down and relax.

Thanks for the inspiration.

FF

He made his choice, and you are showing enough self-respect and maternal care to protect yourself and the children both emotionally and financially by filing for legal separation and staying away from him until/unless he decides he wants a M with you.

The LB, arrest or not, shows that you want to make the decision for him. You can't. Move on. It doesn't show that you don't care about the M. It shows that you recognize that it takes two to make a marriage.

I bit my H on the night I found out about the A. He didn't call the police. He had thrown me down the month before on the arm he had broken several months before. It was protected because it was still in a cast. There is no excuse for violence just as there is not excuse for an A. The underpinning of abuse is control. You can't control him. In a way, you show respect for him by filing. He can run his life the way he sees fit. Your decision is whether to accept infidelity or not. Some people do accept it. It is a choice.

<small>[ November 08, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by foreverfaithful:
<strong>
I think you know this from what I've wrote so far, but I'll repeat it, I have already done both Plans A & B, but during Plan A, WH only lasted a week and then moved out.

This is what I would like to do, but don't know if it is the correct action to take in the form of Plan A: I would like to somehow get together with WH somewhere quiet w/no distractions one on one to tell him this: I am deeply sorry for the pain I've caused, both before the A and especially for LBing (hitting) you. Since being in Anger Management classes, I have really grown as a much calmer person and have been able to shed quite a bit of the anger I had towards you. I do NOT wish to move forward with this divorce, but rather feel I am much healthier and capable now than before to give you the time and space you need to figure things out.

What do you think? Is this the way to go about it? Since Dday I have been working on myself tremendously. I've lost 30 pounds, wear makeup daily, fix hair daily and am keeping up after household chores better (even though I was doing fine before), and am a calmer person. I still get angry, but I am better tuned into the signs of me getting angry at which time I tell myself to settle down and relax.

Thanks for the inspiration.

FF </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FF, that is exactly what I think you should do! Show him your best side and avoid all lovebusters. Meet his needs to the best of your ability [you will be limited but look for opportunities] Let him know you are sorry for your behavior and demonstrate that you have changed and can be counted on to control yourself. Become his friend. Become someone he wants to confide in so that when things fall apart in his affair, you are an attractive option.

If you go to the link in my first post in this thread, it gives an excellent outline of Plan A that should be very helpful.

MelodyLane,

Thanks, I am glad you agree. I am wondering however, about when the right time to do this would be. My WH will have our kids during the 4-5 day Thanksgiving holiday. This will be the longest time he will have EVER been with the kids without my help. It may also make the kids express their feelings of missing mommy. I was thinking of waiting until after Turkey day to have that talk. This way, in the meantime, it will give me 2 more additional weeks in Anger Mgmt. and also time to show my friendly and generosity side to him before unloading the big talk. This may also slowly open his eyes to the attractive me again.

OR, I can do the talk before Turkey Day and then it gives him the holiday without me and with the kids (and hopefully w/o OW) to think about things a bit. I guess it could result in the same outcome either way maybe. What do you think?

I did re-read your link on Plan A stuff, but this time I read further down and found the meat of Plan A. Thanks. I am still going to get the book again from the library this week.

Thank you so much. You have been a great help.

FF

MelodyLane & Broken Heart & Arm,

Thank you both very much for the information. I know what I am going to do, which is talk to him, but now my next question is when is the right time to do this? I feel I should not rush things, like do it immediately. I feel I should start by giving him little bits/crumbs of niceness and generosity, so when I do tell him my feelings, it doesn't seem like a sudden drastic change or facade. Subtle at first, then unveil my full feelings.

I haven't decided whether to talk to him before Thanksgiving or after. After sounds a bit better so he goes through the first holiday w/o me feeling like we're never going to have anymore Thanksgivings together as a family. He may feel awkward w/o me, especially if OW is not with him since WH family is still torn about our situation and feels badly for me.

What do you both think on the timing question? Thanks,

FF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by foreverfaithful:
<strong> I feel I should start by giving him little bits/crumbs of niceness and generosity, so when I do tell him my feelings, it doesn't seem like a sudden drastic change or facade. Subtle at first, then unveil my full feelings.

FF </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FF, I agree with this strategy. I would play it by ear and give him time to relax a little around you.

ML,

My point exactly. I think the little subtle crumbs will also let him feel he can let his guard down or his defenses down a bit around me as well. I then may be more able to pick up on a clue or two of just how happy or miserable he is with his choice and decisions, and work on those cues.

I will keep you posted. Thanks again.

FF

bump.