I think that anytime something like this happens in a marriage, that both WS and BS have to stop and take a good long look at their relationship. What was missing. This is never a case of the injured party being totally clueless that there are problems in the marriage. That is in no way condoning what we as WS's have done but it's just a chance to stop playing the blame game and for each party to focus in on their own personal issues. I don't think that is fair to stereotype every situation. Yes, it's selfish on both parties account. But it goes way deeper than that. I've been the daughter of a WF and now the WS. I now say that I understand my F, do not condone what he did, but I empathize now in a way that I could never have before. I thank God that my parents reconciled!! I'm praying for God to intervene in my marriage. The beauty of ultimately having a loving God has our judge is that he totally gets us. There is no since is pretense with him. He knows us inside and out and knows the intent of the heart. He has seen me at my very worst yet he still loves me and doesn't cast me aside. People will never look at me as being the innocent person that I used to be. I can't dwell on that. If I can help even one person because of this then I have to think that it's worth it. It brings a humility into my life that could never have been learned no other way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"ToomuchCoffee

I'm not really into sexual politics. Just merely making an observation. I do think that sometimes in these type situations that there is somewhat of a double standard. A woman is labled a slut and some men tend to pat each other on the back. What are your thoughts? "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa I'm sorry for not responding to your post sooner but it never occurred that anybody would post comments to me over at my 'garage' [Icouldn't put any of my links in my sig space so I started a thread just to 'store' them hence the name TMCM's garage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ].

My comment regarding sexual politics as the answer of why the OM (in the case of the WW that Jesus saved) was not brought for stoning, has to do with the fact that at that time in history, women had almost no rights and the 'justice' they received was far from being fair to them. To be a woman in those days was ,literally speaking, to be another man's property. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa Rodney:

"I now say that I understand my F, do not condone what he did, but I empathize now in a way that I could never have before."

"It brings a humility into my life that could never have been learned no other way."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't go as far as saying 'could never have learned no other way' in most cases BUT sadly in cases where the person thought of him/herself morally superior to others, and couldn't be convinced through kindly words to be humble and forgiving to those that had fallen to sin, then you are right in saying that they 'could never have learned no other way'. It's like the old saying 'Pride goeth before a fall'.

you know I never thought of myself as morally superior then anyone. You can say that you have compassion on people just because your humble but you can never understand their pain unless you experienced the same thing first hand. That's all I'm trying to say. I forgave my father a long time ago but still never understood what made him do what he did. I now understand.

Lisa

What made both you and your F have an A?

I saw such pain and distruction caused by affairs that I swore to myself that I would never do what my father did. And, I haven't.

Beau

Beau

I said the exact same thing myself. I pray that you don't ever go through it. If you never allow yourself to get vulnerable and be very careful who you srike up a friendship with, you should be ok. Otherwise you may struggle along like the rest of us have. I will never ever trust myself to have a friendship with a man again. I don't trust men now nor do I trust myself. When I receive a compliment now from a man it makes me sick. I hate that I'm like that but I guess that's just the way it is. I had another man after this A come on to me at work under the pretense of wanting to be my friend. I've worked with him for 17 years so he knows me pretty well. One day he confronted me and asked me what was wrong. It's hard to put on a happy face every day at work! I thought he was sincere, so without revealing who the co-worker is that my A was with, I told him about my situation. He said that he didn't blame the OM. He thought that I was "enchanting", charming and intelligent. I thought that he was just being nice. One day after work, everyone had left but me and him. He actually came over to where I was sitting and leaned in to try and kiss me. Where does he get off on that!!! Just because I was a WS doesn't mean that I'm a slut!!! That hurt me so much because I thought he knew me better

Lisa

Why do you allow yourself to be put in situations where you will be hit on? Haven’t you learned that you can’t have a close relationship with a man without being hit on or tempted to have another affair. I don’t care how long you have know someone or how much you thought you could trust him. Haven’t you learned that when you begin to feel like you can trust someone other than your H that you should run for your life? Why do you keep doing this?

“That hurt me so much because I thought he knew me better.” Yeah, he knows that you screwed around on your H and he is hoping you will do the same with him. Duh. Don’t you know how to behave in such a way that men know to leave you alone? Are you so needy for attention that you will continue to let things like this happen? A girl 17 yo has got more savvy about how to deal with men than you seen to have. What’s wrong with you?? You’re looking in the wrong places for understanding and love.

I am sorry. Get a grip on reality.



Beau

Beau

You know you are absolutely right. Just because I have always been a trusting person doesn't mean that I should be now, right. Just because someone comes across as really be concerned as a friend, I should think that automatically he wants to sleep with me. I hate to become that cynical but I guess your advice is that I should. I resent your comment about how I come across to other men. Just because I get involved with one A doesn't mean that I come across that way to everyone. You certainly don't know me or are you in any position to judge me in that way. I guess that ultimately I just shouldn't trust any more...period! Thanks for reminding me that I have no savvy though.

Lisa as you've experience firsthand, there are boundaries that should never be crossed when dealing with a member of the opposite sex that is not one's spouse. You don't have to become a cynical person to avoid crossing these dangerous boundaries, just REMEMBER the danger signals such as a man trying to confide in you his personal problems (or you trying to confide yours with him), spending time alone with him such as lunches in which you share with each other your non-work related interests for these times become defacto dates, and communicating with him after work on non-work relating topics.

Lisa, you are a woman and like most women you can spot a wolf trying to seduce from a mile away and able to shut him down fast, BUT it is the regular, the good guy with no ulterior motives that is the danger. Unlike the wolf, he is someone who could be a very good friend to anybody, and because of this, you lower your defenses and become vulnerable to forget the danger signals that indicate you are crossing dangerous marital boundaries.

I highly recommend that you read the late Shirley Glass's book 'Not Just Friends' to find out more about what I just covered. I hope this helps you.

God bless.

TMCM

Thanks for your post. There is a nice, constructive way to give good sound advice without making a person feel clueless.

Thanks again

Lisa


“He said that he didn't blame the OM. He thought that I was "enchanting", charming and intelligent. I thought that he was just being nice. One day after work, everyone had left but him and me. He actually came over to where I was sitting and leaned in to try and kiss me. Where does he get off on that!!! Just because I was a WS doesn't mean that I'm a slut!!! That hurt me so much because I thought he knew me better.”


I don’t mean to judge you or hurt your feels. I am trying snap you back to reality about how you should behave around men. Look, every guy in your office knows about the affair and probably has thoughts about you floating around in his head. It is a common fantasy that guys have involving an affair with a married woman who has already had an affair. You know, she can’t seem to get enough!! That’s how they view you!!!

When you come across as being friendly to a guy, he reads it as being available. This so-called friend at work so much as told you up front that he didn’t blame the OM. What he was basically saying is that I don’t blame the OM for screwing you in fact I would like to screw you too. That’s the reason your dear friend of 17 years tried to kiss you. You are viewed as a highly sexed easy woman.

The way you combat this behavior with men is to stick to business. You don’t share you feeling with anyone other than your H. You don’t hang around the office late with another guy around. You maintain an attitude that tells a man that he doesn’t have a chance. You go to work, do your job and go home. Instead you’re sending out these needy signals and looking for sympathy because “you’re trying to get over a broken heart.” Apparently had the OM not stopped the affair you would still be involved. What does that say about you and your needs and desires and you willingness to lie and cheat?

Lisa, you had an affair that was driven by desire, lust, lies, secrecy and deception. No matter how you sugar coat it and say that the OM and you were in love, what you were doing with OM is about as basic as two animals in the back yard. You were using each other for your own pleasure. Now deal with it and start behaving like a married woman.


Beau

Lisa

I know the last post is blunt. I really care about you and your H and want the best for the two of you. I don't mean to come across as being hard but I have read every post for the last number of days and feel like you a little push to get you back in the main path to recovery.

Your wanting sympathy about the affair. What most WS feel is grief and shame. I know you feel those feeling also. Perhaps, there is not closure on the affair after all?

Beau

Beau

I appreciate your concern. I'll have a good day and then a bad day. I'm looking for closure from the OM which I know is a big big mistake!

Lisa

Your hanging on to a fantasy that will only cause you and your husband and your marriage more pain. I pray that God will take this burden from you because you don't seem willing to give it up. Oh, how much pain your H must feel knowing that you still desire the OM. I am sorry that you are stuck in an awful place that will only hurt everyone around you.

Beau

Beau

Help!! Yesterday was the pitts for me. The OM basically told me that he never, even if fate would have it, want anything to do with me again. I left work yesterday, went by the store and got me a beer and proceeded to go to the place where we used to meet and just sit there in my car. On my way home, the thought of just losing control of my car and just ending actually entered my mind. I have never had a suicidal thought through any of this. That scares me so bad. My daughter just happened to call me on my cell as I was contemplating this. What is wrong with me Beau. I have the crazy thought that I have caused nothing but problems to people!! I can't see me ever being able to respect myself again and I can't stand that!!

I just want to see myself as something other than trash that has been thrown away!!

Holy Moly
Lisa I am sur your husband and daughter don't see you as "trash". OMG they love you. I don't think anyone on this board sees you that way either, look how much time they have spent with you and will continue to spend with you as long as you are "in need".

OM is pissed because he can't have any more and he wants to drag you down as well because his big fat F'ing ego can't handle the rejection. Have another beer in celebration of losing the loser but have it with your H at one of your favorite places. How can anyone like that deserve the devotion you are willing to give to him? That devotion is still yours take it back and give it to the ones that really deserve it.
H

Hiker

Thanks for your reply. I feel like the loser in my situation. The OM never felt anything for me to lose! I never knew that anyone could be that cold. That scared me so bad yesterday when that thought actually crossed my mind. I have got to get my life back somehow. I just want to feel good again. I just feel used and dirty. I'm allowing the way the OM treats me to make me feel that way. My H treats me no differently which I love him for. I know it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here. I don't understand why I allow the OM to still hurt me. It's my fault for stilling continuing on with e-mails. I guess I like to feel rejection. I am sick!!

Lisa


Based on the description of your feelings, I would say that you are depressed. Contact your doctor about medication TODAY. If you are taking medications, talk to your doctor about increasing the dosage.

The pain your feel comes from self-loathing, helplessness, fear, anger, rejection, hopelessness and guilt. The affair ended before you we’re ready for it to end. You are feeling helplessness and hopelessness because there is nothing that you can do to restore the relationship.

The harder you try to communicate with OM the stronger he will reject you. Rejection is hard for all of us. In this case it’s particularly hard because you put so much emotion and caring into the relationship that you are having a hard time accepting the fact that it is over! You can’t believe that you did all of those terrible things with OM and now he is kicking you to the curb like yesterday’s newspaper.

Lisa, you made some awful mistakes, but YOU are not a bad person. YOU made some bad choices. And, now you are living with the consequences of those bad choices and it is brutally difficult. It is hard for you to believe that OM feels nothing for you. What he said to you and what he did with you allowed him to use you. You have never experienced feels of being used before and those feels hurt big time.

Medication is particularly important at this time. CALL DOCTOR TODAY. If you are not in counseling, NOW is the time to start


Beau

Beau39157@yahoo.com

Lisa

I am concerned and thinking about you. Please post a message.

Beau