Toomuch, that was VERY deep. Plan B not being a means of winning her back, but moreso intended to protect me and if there is a chance of us being together protecting that chance. Hmmmmm. I must think on this even more now. The thought of it initially is comforting. I don't understand why I am hesitant or frightened to do it....(thinking)
I guess I am afraid that I would be pushing her away even further than she is now, but is that even possible. Just this weekend she reminded that she does not want to be with me (that hurt). She may get that letter and say, "Good! That is what I've been waiting to hear all along". That would hurt big time to hear that.
Hmmmm. I have to think about this...

solon ... everyone here will agree that this concept takes a lot of work to wrap your brain around it.

there's another way of thinking about it: 180 degree thinking, asserted by michell weiner-davis (author of divorce busting). she says that, as the betrayed spouse, your behavior should be the opposite of what your instinct is.

you've probably noticed that when you pursue, your wife pulls back. you beg/plead/cry/scream/reason/educate/guilt, she runs.

plan B, like 180 degree thinking, is counter to your instinct.

plan B is powerful.

it's the consequence of your wife's behavior (i suspect she hasn't had consequences yet). she's left to see what life without you is like. she and the om are left to deal with each other, warts and all.

plan B puts enormous pressure on the affair. and it relieves yours so that you can concentrate on becoming whole again. you need this either way.

Solon consider that without Plan B your WW assumes she can come back to you at any time she wants without any pre-conditions and on her own terms. But that is not the case with Plan B because it specifically states what the WS must do in order for the BS to accept him/her back. And like whippit correctly pointed out, Plan B puts a strain on the affair because it ends the cake eating of the WS and has to depend 100% on the OP for ALL of his/her EN's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Solon consider that without Plan B your WW assumes she can come back to you at any time she wants without any pre-conditions and on her own terms. But that is not the case with Plan B because it specifically states what the WS must do in order for the BS to accept him/her back. And like whippit correctly pointed out, Plan B puts a strain on the affair because it ends the cake eating of the WS and has to depend 100% on the OP for ALL of his/her EN's.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM is right. While I am still in Plan A, my WH knows that he needs to make sure that he is finished with OW before he is able to move back into our home and become my "husband" again. If he comes back home and becomes a WH again, I will divorce him.

Up until this point in time, I have pretty much let him "run" the relationship (I don't mean that in a bad way, I was just a follower). I have now decided that I know what I want and will not compromise my needs and wants. I have told him that I love him, I want to be married to him, but I will not, under ANY circumstances, be a part of a marriage that has an A ever again.

I believe that he knows how serious I am, accepts that this is the consequence of his actions, and is working toward getting out of the relationship with the OW. I hope and pray that this is what happens. I hope and pray that you, too, will find your M works out.

Thanks all.

I'm working on the email now. I will post it here in a little bit so I can get feedback on it.

Thanks again.

s--excellent! I'm back from getting beautified at the salon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and will be here for another 45 minutes. If you don't post before then, I'll check back tonight.

I'm working on the email now.
Plan B should be handwritten, not an email.
It's much more personal this way.
It's okay type it out and get feedback & make corrections though.

okay, here it is:

Rhonda,

I will always love you, I will always cherish you. I will always adore you. You are my first love, my wife and the mother of my dear children. How can I ever stop loving you? I cannot. And I will not.

But you have chosen to walk away from the marriage. You have chosen to give your love to another. I cannot, in anyway, be associated with that. As much as I love the little conversation we sometimes have, I must remove myself totally from your life. Please, unless you are contacting me to tell me you want to work on this marriage AND you have totally removed yourself from Randy do not email me or call me. Please, do not even reply to this email. If you need to let me know something regarding the children, call Mr. Jones and have him give me the message. If there is anything that you should know regarding the children i.e. their performances, games, etc., Adonis is old enough to where he can give you the information himself.

As it is now, the pairing of the bills regarding the children is grossly imbalanced. I am paying nearly twice what you are paying for the children. If possible, beginning next month, start paying for Adonis' after school care. I will continue to pay for all of their other extra curricular activities. I will also keep the family on my health insurance, so you won't have that money coming out of your check.

We are not divorced. You are still my wife. The only difference is you have someone else in your life. Home is still here. I am still here. If and when you divorce me, that is when I will participate in separating everything we have. Until then, I will continue to live my life, but only as though you have died.

I want you to know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. I am doing this because I NEED to distance myself from you due to the decision you have made to distance yourself from this marriage.

Take care. Here is Jone's number in case you don't have it. If you have any questions call him.

<strong>I will always love you, I will always cherish you. I will always adore you. </strong>
will you? it's possible that you may not at some point.

<strong>How can I ever stop loving you? I cannot. And I will not.</strong>
you might. see above. this is important because right now you actually risk running out of love for her if her behavior continues. plan B seeks to preserve that love in the chance that your wife decides to come home and recover your marriage. she needs to know that you're protecting the little love for her you have left.

<strong>... do not email me or call me.</strong>
what about a face-to-face? what about a letter? a page? are those okay? re-phrase to read "do not contact me."

<strong>Please, do not even reply to this email.</strong>
DON'T do this via email. like chris said, hand write the letter before sending it. this is, after all, a love letter.

<strong>As it is now, the pairing of the bills regarding the children is grossly imbalanced. I am paying nearly twice what you are paying for the children. If possible, beginning next month, start paying for Adonis' after school care. I will continue to pay for all of their other extra curricular activities. I will also keep the family on my health insurance, so you won't have that money coming out of your check.</strong>
i would cut all of this. but others may have a different opinion.

<strong>We are not divorced. You are still my wife. The only difference is you have someone else in your life. Home is still here. I am still here. If and when you divorce me, that is when I will participate in separating everything we have. Until then, I will continue to live my life, but only as though you have died.</strong>
remember, this letter should help shape some lasting thoughts about you as a husband. do you really want to say this?

<strong>I want you to know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. I am doing this because I NEED to distance myself from you due to the decision you have made to distance yourself from this marriage.</strong>
re-cast this to read something like, 'I want you to know that I love you. But your choice to continue your affair with OM is hurting me and our family. I am willing to wait but I cannot wait forever. So to preserve the love I left for you I must ask that you not contact me." of course, use your words

<strong>Take care. Here is Jone's number in case you don't have it. If you have any questions call him. </strong>

this is a reasonable first draft -- it's hard to write this sort of thing. you WILL need to refine this ... perhaps several times. like i said, this will shape some lasting thoughts about you as a husband. so it's important to be aware of not only what you say, but how you say it.

stick with the group. we'll get you there!

But you have chosen to walk away from the marriage. You have chosen to give your love to another. I cannot, in anyway, be associated with that.
It's not a blame game. You accept your responsibilities and let her accept hers but don't point out her "errors".

Please, do not even reply to this email
Remove this because it won't be an email It will be handwritten.

How can I ever stop loving you? I cannot. And I will not.
Leave out. If the affair continues you WILL stop loving her.

As it is now, the pairing of the bills regarding the children is grossly imbalanced. I am paying nearly twice what you are paying for the children.
Leave this out. It's a LB.

If possible, beginning next month, start paying for Adonis' after school care.
Put that ypu will pay for 1/2 of everything and specify exactly what you will be paying for. If you leave it like this, it will NOT be possible for her to pay for it.

If and when you divorce me, that is when I will participate in separating everything we have.
Don't mention divorce. Just that you want to stay marrie dand work it out.

Until then, I will continue to live my life, but only as though you have died.
Leave it out. You are just trying to get in a jab at her.

I want you to know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. I am doing this because I NEED to distance myself from you due to the decision you have made to distance yourself from this marriage.
Change this to WHY you need to distance yourself. Her affair hurts you and interaction with her hurts you therefore you will stop communications.

You need to put something in about you. You are learning that you messed up in some ways too (got an example?) and you are learning what it is to be a partner in a relationship.

You must be VERY CLEAR that you want the marriage to survive.
You must be VERY CLEAR that what you are doing is only ending communication with her, you are not "moving on".
This needs to be a love letter. No lovebusters, no fingerpointing, no condemning.

<small>[ November 18, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by solon:
okay, here it is:

Rhonda,

I will always love you, I will always cherish you. I will always adore you. You are my first love, my wife and the mother of my dear children. How can I ever stop loving you? I cannot. And I will not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A bit sappy but you ARE conveying your love for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you have chosen to walk away from the marriage. You have chosen to give your love to another. I cannot, in anyway, be associated with that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Whoa! As much as you are totally right, this part full of disrespectfull judgements that nullifies your opening love statement. Please reconsider removing it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As much as I love the little conversation we sometimes have, I must remove myself totally from your life. Please, unless you are contacting me to tell me you want to work on this marriage AND you have totally removed yourself from Randy do not email me or call me. Please, do not even reply to this email. If you need to let me know something regarding the children, call Mr. Jones and have him give me the message. If there is anything that you should know regarding the children i.e. their performances, games, etc., Adonis is old enough to where he can give you the information himself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem here

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As it is now, the pairing of the bills regarding the children is grossly imbalanced. I am paying nearly twice what you are paying for the children. If possible, beginning next month, start paying for Adonis' after school care. I will continue to pay for all of their other extra curricular activities. I will also keep the family on my health insurance, so you won't have that money coming out of your check.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Plan B letter must not contain detailed financial arrangements. The only thing related to finances is that you will not be able to help her financially and that is it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are not divorced. You are still my wife. The only difference is you have someone else in your life. Home is still here. I am still here. If and when you divorce me, that is when I will participate in separating everything we have. Until then, I will continue to live my life, but only as though you have died.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not only is this paragraph full of disrespectful judgements, but angry outbursts as well. Again please reconsider deleting it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want you to know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. I am doing this because I NEED to distance myself from you due to the decision you have made to distance yourself from this marriage.

Take care.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You must convey to her the pain you feel by continuing to have contact with her while she is still involved with the OM, and THAT is the reason why you must distance yourself from her. This paragraph does not convey that pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is Jone's number in case you don't have it. If you have any questions call him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This paragraph is ok but it should end with a loving message like Jon's Plan B letter in which he said "I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as your are seeing Greg. With my love. (your name)"

Also this letter is lacking a few key things necessary in a Plan B letter:

1.Your admission to contributing to the bad marital environment that made her affair possible.

2.Your willingness to fulfill her most important EN's.

3.Your hope that the two of you can rebuild your marriage and a new lifestyle where the two of you can be happy.

Please reconsider not sending your Plan B letter the way you wrote it.

Okay, I'm getting the idea now. I have much work to do on it, mainly stop trying to press the issue that she is wrong and more of letting her know that I am as responsible for the breakdown of this marriage as she is, but I wish for nothing more than for it to be amended and for us to be together. Does that sound about right?
Also, here is a serious question; what if my wife, right now, is contemplating coming back, would this letter drive her away? I say that because before my wife left, well, way before she left, we were a spiritual couple. We weren't sinless, but we well knew right and wrong. Sunday night I called her simply to pray with me like we used to do when she was here (that's how I know someone was there because she just mummbled a quick prayer about the children). But today, what's today...Tuesday, okay, two days later she emails me a picture of my son's shoes that she just bought him and we exchanged a few emails. It may seem as though she is realizing she is wrong and is beginning to think about coming home. Would this plan b letter turn her away from that?

I'll wait to hear from you all while I refine the HANDWRITTEN letter. :-) Thank you all so much for your help in this. I do pray that it either assists me in healing or brings her home.

Bravo Solon ... now THAT'S what we've all been waiting to hear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Okay, I'm getting the idea now. I have much work to do on it, mainly stop trying to press the issue that she is wrong and more of letting her know that I am as responsible for the breakdown of this marriage as she is, but I wish for nothing more than for it to be amended and for us to be together. Does that sound about right?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forgive my abruptness, but your wife sending a picture of your sons shoes doesn't sound to me like she's rethinking. What were your emails like? No, the Plan B letter isn't going to drive her away. It will let her know how much you love her and want her to end the A. It will show her that you respect yourself enough to back away from the situation to preserve your love for her.

Praying is good, always good. Keep up the good work! You've come a long way, baby. You've got a long way to go, too, but I can see that you can do it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by solon:
Okay, I'm getting the idea now. I have much work to do on it, mainly stop trying to press the issue that she is wrong and more of letting her know that I am as responsible for the breakdown of this marriage as she is, but I wish for nothing more than for it to be amended and for us to be together. Does that sound about right?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You want your letter to be full of love and hope for a happy marriage. The last thing you want your Plan B letter to be is spiteful and resentful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, here is a serious question; what if my wife, right now, is contemplating coming back, would this letter drive her away? I say that because before my wife left, well, way before she left, we were a spiritual couple. We weren't sinless, but we well knew right and wrong. Sunday night I called her simply to pray with me like we used to do when she was here (that's how I know someone was there because she just mummbled a quick prayer about the children). But today, what's today...Tuesday, okay, two days later she emails me a picture of my son's shoes that she just bought him and we exchanged a few emails. It may seem as though she is realizing she is wrong and is beginning to think about coming home. Would this plan b letter turn her away from that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your talking about your original Plan B letter then I would say that the answer is yes you will end up driving her away. That's why you need to change it to look as much as possible to Jon's Plan B letter to Sue in Harley's book 'Surviving An Affair'.

There was another BH last week who was also running by us his Plan B letter when some of the ladies here came up with the brilliant idea to include one or two shared experiences of happier times together. His final draft included two of said happier times experiences the two of them shared and was so good that I wish I could have saved it so that you could have seen the beauty of it.

Oh and Chris is right that you should give her the Plan B letter in person instead of e-mailing it. Why? because a handwritten letter has much more emotional feel to it than a typed electronic one. Not only that, most e-mail gets erased after it is read but with a letter there is a good chance that she'll keep it to read again and again when she starts questioning her bad choices.

I hope this was of some help to you.

Okay, here goes my first attempt ever at trying to edit a Plan B letter. I pretty much agree with all of the comments you've gotten so far, but I think they may all be from men. May I ever so humbly add a woman's point-of-view? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Rhonda,

I will always love you, I will always cherish you. I will always adore you. You are my first love, my wife and the mother of my dear children. How can I ever stop loving you? I cannot. And I will not.

I agree with TMCM, a bit too sappy. How about "My Dearest Rhonda, You are my first love (was she your first love? if not say 'only love'), my wife and the mother of our (not 'my') dear children. I love you with all my heart. I will always cherish and adore you."


But you have chosen to walk away from the marriage. You have chosen to give your love to another. I cannot, in anyway, be associated with that.

Wait a minute...has she actually walked away from the marriage or is she just taking a step back right now? Say something like,
"But you have chosen to give your love to another. Unless and until you end all contact forever with Randy, I must end all conversation and contact with you. Please know that I am doing this out of love for you. Your relationship with Randy is a detriment to my love for you and I want to preserve that love."

If you need to let me know something regarding the children, call Mr. Jones and have him give me the message. If there is anything that you should know regarding the children i.e. their performances, games, etc., Adonis is old enough to where he can give you the information himself.

"Mr. Jones has kindly agreed to give me any messages you may have for me. Please contact him at 555-555-5555. Adonis is old enough to give you any information that you should know regarding the children's performances, games, etc."


As much as I love the little conversation we sometimes have, I must remove myself totally from your life. Please, unless you are contacting me to tell me you want to work on this marriage AND you have totally removed yourself from Randy do not email me or call me. Please, do not even reply to this email.


"When you end all contact with Randy, I will be open to discussing our marriage and how we can repair it and improve upon it."


As it is now, the pairing of the bills regarding the children is grossly imbalanced. I am paying nearly twice what you are paying for the children. If possible, beginning next month, start paying for Adonis' after school care. I will continue to pay for all of their other extra curricular activities. I will also keep the family on my health insurance, so you won't have that money coming out of your check.

Omit this whole paragraph. You can send her a letter through Mr. Jones later regarding the financial issues. State that you want to split the children's expenses 50/50, but don't belittle her.


We are not divorced. You are still my wife. The only difference is you have someone else in your life. Home is still here. I am still here. If and when you divorce me, that is when I will participate in separating everything we have. Until then, I will continue to live my life, but only as though you have died.

"I am committed in my love for you and believe in our marriage. You are my wife. Your home is still here. I am still here. I will continue to live my life."


I want you to know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. I am doing this because I NEED to distance myself from you due to the decision you have made to distance yourself from this marriage.


"Please know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. Rather, I am doing this because I am trying to preserve the love I have for you."

Take care. Here is Jone's number in case you don't have it. If you have any questions call him.

With all my love,
Solon


Again, after your first paragraph, don't forget to tell her how you have realized the mistakes you made to contribute to the problems in your marriage. You are working to improve yourself.


Whew, that was a rather big job with all the bold and italics and cut-and-paste and stuff. Kept me busy for 30 minutes. Thanks for helping me pass the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Okay, and the other thing I would do it read the letter that Jon wrote to Sue again. I know there was good stuff in there.

(spotlights, please)
And now, the great Stung by a Bee will attempt to recreate the entire Solon Plan B letter in its entirety right here before your very eyes.

Drum roll, please ...


"My Dearest Rhonda, You are my first love, my wife and the mother of our dear children. I love you with all my heart. I will always cherish and adore you. But you have chosen to give your love to another.

Unless and until you end all contact forever with Randy, I must end all conversation and contact with you. Please know that I am doing this out of love for you. Your relationship with Randy is a detriment to my love for you and I want to preserve that love.

Mr. Jones has kindly agreed to give me any messages you may have for me. Please contact him at 555-555-5555. Adonis is old enough to give you any information that you should know regarding the children's performances, games, etc.

When you end all contact with Randy, I will be open to discussing our marriage and how we can repair it and improve upon it.

I am committed in my love for you and believe in our marriage. You are my wife. Your home is still here. I am still here. I will continue to live my life.

Please know that I am not doing this because I want to distance myself from you. Rather, I am doing this because I am trying to preserve the love I have for you.

With all my love,
Solon


Again, after your first paragraph, don't forget to tell her how you have realized the mistakes you made to contribute to the problems in your marriage. You are working to improve yourself.

Oh yeah, you also need to let her know that you are sending a copy of the letter to Randy and Randy's wife, if he has one.

Ta da!!

Wow! That was good! And with me being so brain dead as it is, I may have to use all of what you all said verbatim :-) It does kind of read like me.

But I have two more questions>
1) Christmas is coming up. We have not worked out specific plans, but we are leaning towards her spending the night here Christmas eve and spending Christmas with us. How will that work out once I give her this letter?

2) I know where her apartment is, should I slip it on her windshield wiper, or, if I complete the letter by Sunday, give it to her when she comes to my son's bowling party (she said she may come to that)?

Thank you again for all your hard work. You know, it's something (here comes a little self disclosure), this Monday, after the painful weekend, I told myself I will buckle down and literally wrestle with God. This thing has been going on since February of this year. I have been in too much pain...and it was only getting worse! I made up my mind that I would fast all week from everything' food, tv, a person in my life who was there to help comfort me, but it was a relationship that I know was not acceptable. I cut it all off. Every morning, no, all throughout the day, I ask God, beg God, to do something, anything. I believe that he sends comfort to the brokenhearted. I believe, more than ever before that this week something was going to happen.
Well, you all happened. It kind of makes me think that what I am reading on this board is words coming directly from heavenly angels disguising themselves as people. I thank you all for helping me with this. You were sent here for a reason and you are fulfilling your purpose. This should make you all proud.

Thank you again.

no contact is no contact. even on christmas.

if she wants to spend time with your children, then make arrangements for that just like you would normally (but through mr. jones, of course).

let's assume for a moment that you and your wife do, in fact, divorce and five years from now you re-marry. will your now xw come and stay at the house for the holidays? new w will probably flip.

the reality of plan B is for her to see what it's like to live life without you and your children full time ... which includes christmas in the house.

her choices have consequences and this is one of them. it's tough, but so is being a bs and she's not bending over backward to make sure you can have a life without consequences.

i don't mean to sound hard hearted. the thing is, when you waffle on plan B it doesn't work.

solon, thanks for the kind words to all of us. It's nice to be appreciated.

As far as Christmas goes, whippit is entirely correct. You make arrangements through Mr. Jones. A holiday without you together as a family may just be that additional wake-up call that she needs!

Wow, fasting all week?! Last night while I wrote that stuff I had nachos with cheese, followed by a nice bowl of chocolate chip ice cream. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Kudos to you. God definitely answers prayers and glad we could help the Almighty One with your situation. Continue on your spiritual path and it will lead you to where you should be. But you're not gonna be able to fast much longer or you'll melt away.

Do I tell her that there will be no contact during Christmas in the letter? And what about the children? I guess this is the reality of it. But I am taking off the entire week of Christmas and I plan for them to be with me. Should I drop her a line saying that if she wants to spend time with the children see Jones, or should I just leave it up to her to ask him to talk to me about it?

Other thing. Each day the children are with her they call me in the morning and at night. Every morning and night we always have a devotion. It did not stop when I allowed them to be with her. When they are with me, she calls them in the morning and at night. Should I mention to her not to call? Sometimes, I don't know if it is her calling and I will hate to answer the phone when she calls. Or, should I just get my number changed and not give it to her? Doesn't that seem cold?

I will like to have this letter ready by Sunday.