You have given me lots to think about and I do appreciate it.

First to LowO. We are seeing an MFC but as a couple most of the time. I am seeing the C tonight alone. I am going to a group session as well. Both are helping me and us talk through this situation.

So many have said to me not just recently but through out most of my adult life, "don't be so hard on yourself". It is a characteristic of Adult Children of Alcoholics to "judge themselves without mercy" (Janet Woititz, Adult Children of Alcoholics,Health Communications, Inc). I do it because it has become second nature to me. It is a big hurrdle for me to overcome.

I think that this most recent bout of "weakness/depression" has come about because I am so overwhelmed with what I have to do on me, our marriage and at work. I realize it is a phase and that I am not in a "pit" but rather a "very long tunnel" and eventually I will be able to see the light at the other end. But these feelings are very real and very debilitating. There is no place for me to "put them". I put on a very good face and most have no idea the turmoil that is going on within me. I have shared these feelings with my W. This is a major break through. She hugged me... it was what I needed. I couldn't cry then but I am crying now. She sould be able to see my tears maybe one day it will happen.

BB you have given me much and I think perhaps part of what you are saying is in response to the BS that you are. You are in a sense able to be a voice for my W because you most certainly understand her point of view.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was something that was easy for him to do in his affair.
It was all "new" for him and therefore he was able to "show himself" as "someone different". Well, OW never knew my WS as I did so it was as if he was able to "be someone else" without the "relationship pattern" that we had developed within the years.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was able to "show" myself to OW and as I expained above I am trying my damndest to reveal me to my W. Suddenly she feels that, at least in part, she really doesn't know me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In our situation if he would of been that way with me, he would of appeared to be a stranger.I would of been "questioning" alot of things about him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In someways I have become a "stranger" to her because I have with held so much of me over these years. The real me I saw/see as unacceptable. For whatever reason with OW I felt safe. There wasn't a big risk of losing much if she rejected me, after all I had been rejected so many times before. So I took the risk and she loved me. Not for the money I made, the position I held or what I represented in the community she loved me for me. Rightly or wrongly I bought into that and never expected to lose it. But ultimately it was a lie. The reality is one cannot build a lasting relationship built upon deceit.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is absolutely ok and I understand my WS completely. It's just the fact that a man can get this from his wife, it just has to be based on "reality" and not on "fantasy". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I am. I want this to be a reality in my home. One day my prayer is that it will be true for the sake of all of those who are close to me.
H

Hi Hiker,

I hope you are doing better these days.I agree that you may want to think about stopping the Loss of Relationship group.As helpful as it could be for many and for you in certain times, I do believe there is a time to unplug from the group and spread your wings and fly.

Sometimes, being in those groups keeps you "plugged" into the pain that you are trying to put behind you,ya know?

I watched the same thing happen to my mom in AA. She was finally able to "sread her wings" and become such a wonderful person once she left the "nest"(AA). It was sad to see, a lot of those people in AA,you could tell,were never going to be ok on their own. But some people use these help groups for what they need and to get through the toughest times and then it is time to move on.Time for more inner growth.

I wish you inner peace and strength!

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hiker,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In someways I have become a "stranger" to her because I have with held so much of me over these years. The real me I saw/see as unacceptable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly the point. I as a BS and my Ws were both doing this.
I don't know why it came to be this way, it's just a sorta pattern that developes and it's somehow embarrassing to change this.

This is where I think an affair must become "facinating" well if I can put myself into the affairees shoes in any way.

There is no "old luggage" and there is no "pattern" that has developed throughout the years. This is what must make both of the affairees feel flattered. They are "experimenting" with themselves and they feel so "admired" and "accepted".

Hiker, rememeber, I'm a BS and I have NEVER been involved in an affair.

I just wanted to make it clear that I certainly do understand the facination of "feelings" that are involeved when someone is having an affair and I can even understand how addicting it can get.

I too love to have these feelings and it honestly can happen in a marriage and even after the marriage has been doomed by an affair.

My WS and I just had to learn to "open up" and we had to learn how to "throw away" the embarrassement and the "uncomfortable feelings" and we had to let out what made us feel good about ourselves and what really got each of us "turned on".

We started off with talking about everyday life then step by step we got into sexuality and fantasies.

Gosh and we're still at it. It's so much fun and we're learning more and more each day.

Therer were so many "little" things that my WS had hid from me for so long. So many "little and cute" things". I feel so bad for him that he never trusted to tell me. And he too feels that he lost so many years not trusting himself to just "speak out" what he thinks and what he wants.

We both were afraid that we wouldn't be accepted from one another but were we wrong.
It's became exciting and we're noticing more and more that we have actually grown.

I had always wished that my WS would speak out his thoughts and I wished that he would tell me his honest opinion about things, even if I didn't share his opinion at times. He never did and that way I never truely knew what he was really thinking.

But gosh has this changed. He speaks out his opinion now, boy does he. I have to learn to cope with this at times now but it sure has brough alot of ife into our relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He just had to learnt that "speaking out" what he thinks and feels and not always getting approval is NOT "fighting" and it isn't being "misunderstood" and it isn't being "unaccepted".

This is what I call "reality" and real life.
It's showing who you honestly are and since he is being honest and showing his true face, he knows that I Love "HIM" and not what he is just presenting to me.

I love my H from all sides. And this seems to really amaze him.

Anyways, Hiker, I just want to tell you to keep on "opening up" to your wonderful wife.

Show her all sides of yourself and don't hide anything. It's probably going to become a "fun and interesting" journey for the both of you and I wish for the both of you that it will last at least the next 30-40 years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hiker, what do you have to loose???? You can only win, so go for it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Does your wife ever read here in Marriage Builders?? If not, you might want to print out some of the things we've been writting and I'd be happy to help her in any way, if I can.

take care
bb

LowO
I just re-read your post thank you for these words
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm two years out and still having a few tough moments. This week has been tough. Sometimes I still want to call or write...but I know I can't...I won't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They do make me feel human
I won't call or write either...I still want to...it is too expensive.
I am anxious for it to get easier.

In the "loss of relationship group" we don't just rehash the past. The counselor has given me tools that will help with "the moving on process" in addition to looking at why I felt I needed to have the A and finding better ways to fulfilling my needs; it is very similar to being here...just face to face. It is difficult to give a complete view of the group. At first I thought it wasn't a good idea but it helping to give me direction. He has given me methods for redirecting thought processes to help me with the obsessing about the OW. Thank you for your concern it will be awhile before I am "better". I know that there is much work to do.
H