Sally,

I know you are still in the fog. I know you are still in withdrawal, so I know trying to argue you into changing is not going to be very successful. But, I am going to continue to hold up you words as a mirror so that you can see for yourself the fog you are in. I am hopeing that someday you will see the inconsistent words, the inconsistent deeds, and the inconsistent feelings and start to focus. You are not focused on reality yet.

For example you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Infact, that is what I said when he needed his "break". I emailed and said if you know it is over, just TELL Me so I can get the hurt out and the healing to begin. And that is where he wrote (and I posted) that he wanted to keep me in his life....wait and see. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This makes you sound like a lemming with no will of your own. You are saying that if this man says come to me, you will simply throw over your children, your H, and all you hold dear for this man. Is that really true??? I don't think so, because you also say that you could NOT leave your H and family. Which suggests that you really don't LOVE OM like you like to fantasize you do. Frankly, I KNOW what he is fantasizing about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and it is NOT marriage to you. It is the excitement of the affair, the promise of more sex, exciting sex, having you at his beck and call. Him being able to tell you to do anything he wants and you doing it.

I am sure his W doesn't meet all of his wildest fantasies but you WILL right. You WILL debase yourself sexually, publically, to your family, to your children, ANYTHING for this man, right???

That is what your first paragraph is saying: HE OWNS YOU. YOU ARE HIS SLAVE. Don't you think he did and would enjoy that arrangement WHILE STILL married to his W. Having what he wants. That is what his email is saying. If he can figure out a way to keep you as his doting slave, AND keep his marriage, then, by golly, you will be on your knees before him doing his bidding. You don't think so??

Go back and read his email, the one you posted here. Then read your quote. That is WHAT YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH, helpless slavery to a man that has and will use you for his fanatsies while keeping his W on a string as well. Sounds like a good deal to me, if I were him. If I were you, I would be running from this man or you may well find yourself on your knees as his personal slave. Your H will make a decision sooner or later, to leave if you do not start to focus on your H rather than the fantasy of being another mans slave.

You also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It helps to hear people like you remind me that OM is at home with his wife enjoying TG dinner....it makes me think that I am a big loser to sit here and wait for his reply...I wonder what does go through his head...ifhe hurst at the apparent loss of this friendship. Becasuse, you know, if he made it clear that I was worthless, it would make things alot easier for me to fix at home. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't have to worry about "feeling" like a big loser, you are a loser, but with a chance to regain what you have lost. You see you are focusing on what you lost with OM, nothing really, just a fantasy. What you are going to lose is going to be much more. Your H doesn't want to be married to a woman that feels "worthless". He knows your weakness. Didn't you see his statement to you. He knew you were weak and that is why he was protecting you. Think about that for a moment. "He was protecting you." All of this time you felt he was trying for control, or that he didn't know you like OM, or that he didn't love you. HE KNEW YOU and YOU HAVE PROVEN HIM RIGHT.

I don't know your H, Sally, but I would bet he wants a partner, not some groveling, "worthless", woman as his W. He wants a W he is proud of, and even with all that you have done you have it within you to become a woman to be proud of. But, you have to stop whinning in your head about what you lost, and focus on what you have and what you have gained.

What do you have?? You have an H that loves you although you have really ripped his heart out. Think about this for a moment. You had a 10 month affair with OM. Your H had a (how many??) years long marriage, a family, a woman he loved so deeply, and she left him. Just as OM has left you. The difference was that there were promises, children, homes, everything involved for your H. He has lost more than you can imagine, and yet, THERE HE IS.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel that since telling him, he has realized in his own mind that he "lost" me, even if just for a few months....and that prospect petrified him. He started to show his love so much after that night....almost in a suffocating way. BUt I knew that his love was deep and abiding...and that made what I was going though, the guilt and pain, even worse. Because I knew that I was continuing, unable to stop and I had this man giving me a second chance.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't know the half of it, but you do know that he loves you, but that love will die. You are poisoning it every day that you focus on OM and yourself, rather than your H and yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that telling him proved to me that I am lucky to have someone care for me and my well being as he does.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What an understatement. Your OM is not even in your H's league. I just sit here sometimes and shake my head. Women say they want love, say they want a devoted man, a man that will walk through fire for them, and then they throw that man out so that they can be a slave to a man that just wants the fantasy.

Amazing, just Amazing But, it is not new. You are pretty normal. If you want to read what can happen, read Hopeful_person's, story. It will break your heart. She has posted to you, but I don't think you realize her story. Read it.

By the way, did you read K's thread that I bookmarked for you. Just click on it.

Sally, this is all about perspective and focus. Change those email accounts, if you can change phone numbers, and then allow your H to help you through withdrawal. And Sally, your H needs your help. He really does. I am sure the man is struggling.

God Bless,

JL

I have an addictive personality and managed to quit drinking and using drugs. To quote from other posts: "When the wayward spouse is making a chioce between the OP and their spouse it is time to start Plan B". Though it sounds harsh, if you were my wife I would ask you to move out until you decided to make a firm decision to rebuild the marriage and stick to the NC rule. Most affairs quickly fizzle when they are exposed, so yours should be no different. The OM has the best of both worlds, his wife and you on the side. One sexual encounter in several months may not seem like a lot, but it is one too many from the BS's point of view. Do you need advice and guidance, you bet, do you need pity and smoozing..no way!

Sally2003, Listen to JL. What he says is so true! I am like your husband. Your sitituation is like that between my wayward wife and I. There is nothing new or different or better in your A or my wife's A.

Like your H I deeply love my wife and am willing to do what it takes to restore and rebuild are our marriage better than it was. Much better!! Like your H, I have put up with WW's affair and the incredible pain and I am still at home waiting for her to come out of the fog.

But, nobody, not even the best H can wait forever. I feel the the pain everyday and it chips away at the love I have for her. Even the great love I have for her can't survive forever if she keeps chipping away at it. I expect that your husband is the same.

In a few days my son leaves for basic training and I will then call OM's wife and tell her what I know. I expect WW will be so angry that she will leave me for an OM who is like your OM (cheats on wife, lies to loved ones, etc. etc. ect.). Don't let your marriage go the same way. Fix it while you can, while your H is willing to do as much and probably more work than you are.

JL:

Why when I read your post do I really start to think of myself of being used, BUT, then this stupid vocie in the b ack of my head tells me that OM does care for me?

There were countless times during our relationship he told me I should stop talkin to him...namely when I told him I had confessed to my husband.

I want you all to know that it actually HAS become even a bit easier since time has passed...since he last wrote on Nov 19th.

I really think I will get to the point where I do block the emails..I just havent got there yet. I DO know it is the right and only way.

S.

Sally

Dr Harley says that any renewed contact with the OP will set the WS back to square one, so unless you want to run that risk and extend your painful withdrawl period, I highly suggest that you block his e-mail messages ASAP.

Dear Sally.
You have come a long way from your original post on 'breakups suck' where you were unable to eat or swallow, where you were crying every day, often because of missing your OM so much.
(You probably are still crying but not as much.)

I cried every day (often) for 3 1/2 months over losing my good friend, my OM, from my daily life.
It was like a death, it was such a grief and I, like you, had to keep it a secret from my husband and everyone.
I did my crying when alone! I still miss him, I think I always will.

But now it is so much better.
This board has helped so much for me to see how much more peace of mind it will be for me, to know it is OVER...I can work on my marriage and re-gaining self-respect again.

I hope you feel the same way.
I also hope you get one more note from your OM so you can have that much needed closure and then REALLY stop contacting him.
You CAN do it, sweetie.
Love, Sarah

P.S.(I may tell him some day, just not sure which way to go as I seem to definately be leaning towards NOT telling him.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sarie:

"I also hope you get one more note from your OM so you can have that much needed closure and then REALLY stop contacting him."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is tantamount to telling a drug addict in withdrawl that you hope that she gets another hit of her drug before she finally commits to end her drug addiction.

Well said TMCM - Sarie if you cared for Sally at all, you wouldn't fuel this desire for more contact. More contact just means more hope for Sally that OM will be in touch. More hope means less commitment to her H and family. More hope means heaping more pain onto her already broken soul.

OM has made it perfectly clear where he wants to be - at home with his family. He toys with Sally's emotions and feeings. He wants to keep her, he doesn't. He wants his cake and to eat it.

Sarie, I have the firm belief that if you can't say anything constructive, best say nothing at all. Your comments are fueling Sally's painful withdrawal even more. Are you happy with that? You claim to be a caring woman. You have shown by your irresponsible and hurtful comments that you have no understanding of anything of value or importance in terms of A's and R's.

I have a suggestion for you Saire - why not go to TOW board so you can commiserate with all the poor souls who are pining for someone else other than their husband, or for someone else's husband. Fuel their fires of fantasy and leave Sally to try and rebuild her shattered life with her loving husband.

You know what, you really really make me feel sick. I have never slammed anyone on this board. I felt I had no place to do that. Because I was the WS. I was the wrong-doer. I was the one broken by loss of OM. I was the one who was the home-wrecker. I was the one that shattered my X's life. But I can tell you, after 1 year of NC and then OM "toying" with my emotions and coming back into my life asking to meet, it nearly broke me completely. That's why I am utterly convinced that "just one more communication" will possibly be the fatal blow that sends Sally over the edge. It very nearly did me.

Sally, I hope you are doing well. I hope you managed to enjoy Thanksgiving with your family. Hang in there Sally. I promise you it does get easier. I know.

Lisa

Dear Lisa.
Sally and I are both in withdrawal from constant previous communication with our OM's.

What I am hoping in an e-mail from Sally's OM to her, is for him to tell her NOT to e-mail or call him anymore, that it is OVER and he is going to re-build his marriage with his wife.

It actually would not be like a dose of illegal drugs, it would be more like a healing dose of a legal drug for her to finally ACCEPT that it is truly over and it seems she cannot quite accept it until she hears it from the OM.

I care very much for Sally and have 'heard' her throughout this entire ordeal. She has a very sweet and confused, struggling heart.
Love, Sarah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi;

Listen, I am sure that Sarie's comments were heartfelt and she meant well.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Objectively, I can see both sides--if he did write and said piss off, I DEFINATELY would get rid of my email etc and have NO contact with him, ever.

I also see the other perspective where I should just take the initiative and do it myself because I DO KNOW that is the right thing to do.

Listen you guys, everyone can post what they want, I dont want people gettin in fights over me. I am trying really hard, daily, to start doing the right thing, for myself, my husbnd nd my life.

Thank you all,
Sally.

Sarie

She already has heard it from OM. He is staying with his W and does not want contact from her. Sally admits that she then contacted him a further 3 times, and once again last week. He hasn't responded. That is his answer. It will break her further to hear from him. I know, it did me.

No, one more shot could be the overdose that kills her actually. I believe that, because it nearly happened to me. Thankfully I had people around me who cared enough to pull me through and save me - many of them MBers.

I wish people here could help you Sarie, but you are one confused and fogged up lady. That you honestly believe one further communication would help. His e-mails made it abudantly clear he was not leaving his W. I willed one more contact, and when I got it, I wanted one more. And when I got that one I wanted a phone call. And when I got the phone call and he suggested we meet, I tried to stay strong and I said no. I sucumbed, because I "wanted to tie up loose ends and bring it properly to a close". It never happened because he backed off again and I was left broken and almost beyond repair. I OD'ed.

Sally, I hope you never hear from this spineless, weak s**t again. I pray you never do, for your own wellbeing and sanity and for the sake of your M and your H. His patience will run out if you continue contact.

Lisa

Dear Lisa.
Did your OM ever come right out and say it is OVER?

Or did he always give you ambiguous signals?

I care about you; you have done really GREAT in your recovery and your words of advice have A LOT of merit.
Sincerely, Sarah

His actual words were:

"I'm not ready to leave my wife and children"

Lisa: "I never asked you to"

OM: "I know, but if in 6 months or a year I still feel the same, then I will."

Lisa: "But don't you love me?"

OM: "You know I love you, you know I love you more than my W, you know that"

Sarie, anything sound familiar? Yes, I am now DV and he is still with his W and 4 children, still supposedly unhappy and "staying for the children".

Sarie, I am only hard on you purely because, I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt - twice over <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Please believe me when I say there can be no happy outcomes for Sally to hear from OM again. Please believe me when I ask you to think about telling your H. Mine "found out". It was nasty, even nastier than those that tell. But know, I have an honesty in my life which never existed before. An openess I am proud of learning. A belief of a better life for me even though I am DV'd. And you know what, I have to run, because my better life is about to turn up in a half hour for dinner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He's single, he knows all about me, and he doesn't tell me baloney about loving me but staying for the children, or doing the right thing by his W and trying one more time. Sarie, don't you believe that at our age we're only led where we want to go? If OM wanted to be with Sally, he would.....

Sally, I hope you're doing OK today.

Lisa

I know that you probably don't value my input due to my prior posts, but you seem to still be very much in the fog. While in the fog your judgement will be impaired and you will remain a cake eater. Think about the following:
1) The OM has not told his wife about the affair and does not seem to want to leave her to be with you.

2) Your husband is bending over backwards to give you the time and space that you need to make a decision. His attitude may change VERY quickly, so now is the time to act.

3) The OM used the flaws in your marriage to "win" you over. This was a "crime" of opportunity for him.

4) Your children will be the ones to pay for your affair if your marriage ends in divorce.

5) The vast majority of affairs end very quickly when they are exposed to the light of day.

6) Have you discussed going to a MC with your husband.

Thank you all for your comments.

Mfisher...first of all, i value everyones opinion's, really. Shows the care and compassion you ALL have for total strangers.

Second...I never ONCE expected NOR wnated the OM to leave his wife! We clarified that at the very start of this affair. We live 5 hours away, in differnt countries. Neither of us wanted that, ever.

It was more like a friend on the side..that was always clear so I have to false hopes aboutus "being together".

The thing that makes it harder for me is that I dont know if his NC is because he could care less or he's tryign to do the right thing. Frankly, Id like to hear from him him that it is the prior--because then I would know this 10 months really meant nothing to him and I was naive. That would relly help bring closure.

I feel if I dont hear from him it will be like I am always "wondering" leaving that healing process at a stand still.

Again, if I sound clouded or stupid, I apologize. I am just being honest.

Sally.

Thank you for your honesty. I speak from the perspective of being a betrayed spouse, hence my harsh tone in prior posts. It sounds really bad, and it is, but many men enjoy the thrill of the chase more than reaching their goal. I do not know the man that you became involved with and can only speculate on his motives for NC. I can only tell you that in the long run his NC will make the recovery of your marriage easier. I wish you well and hope that you find the time to read some of Dr Harley's books. Surviving an affair is a good place to start, then move on to some of the others. Good luck and God bless.

Just imagine this.......

Your H can no longer take your obession with OM , so he moves out,file for D and finished off with you.

He is now with this new woman. WOW she is not pretty like you ,but she is faithful.

Your H goes on NC with you . His NEW WIFE speaks on behalf him reagarding kiddies matters. He does not even come to your place to pick them. She comes.Even if he comes, he does not even open his window.

Oh i forgot about your new place, how you pay the bills?. You are working full time. Living pay check to pay check. no time for dating..

nobody there to share your thoughts, no shoulder to cry...... Just plain darkness.

Well your family , friends, neighbours and everybody knows now and take stands between you and him. You are no longer allowed into certain houses. People look down at you.

Kiddies :

You have to answer those poor souls questions :

Why daddy lives with another woman other than u?
Why you both DVed?
Why daddy does not even talk with you?
Why they have to play with daddys GFs kids?
Why they have two houses?

Why you have cheated on daddy??
Is daddy is a bad person or you?

Divorvce Part:

Well H choses not to ask for full custody only visiting
How to divide the holidays???. kiddies 1 and 2 on saturdays and kid 3 on sundays or the other never ending permutations and combinations.
How would you divide your household?. 50 -50 or anything else?. How about the marriage and family picture with him and the kiddies? Would you still display his photos around in the home?. Would he put your face around his home??? (big doubut! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

How about christmas??
Nobody around to share the gifts and no family to spend. No shopping sprees. Even if you buy, for whom are you gonna buy??? to OM? !
What about kids spending the chirtmas with their daddy as per the visitation plans?.

What about you are not allowed into his home to pick up the kids and waiting around the pathway or in a car?

Well your kiddies are big enough , what if they permenantly go with their daddy and you get only a small time slice?.

Is this scarry????

THIS IS WHAT GONNA HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU KEEP ON OBESSING ABOUT OM. YOUR H WONT BE THERE LONG....

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

As i have already told you, the OM scumbags not even worth the soiled toilet papers.

hi

what can i say

you are right

my husband is so awesome

i think this week, im seein the fog start to lift

i can eat and although really sad, im functioning better

can this be a start?

Sally,

Yes it can.

JL

The real start will be a solid decision to stay with your husband, rebuild your marriage, and to stick to NC with the OM. The next time that another man tries to act like he cares about you, because someone will, just ask yourself if he is telling you want he thinks you want to hear in order to get into your pants. Unfortunately, quite a few men play this game.