the OM's mother does know, he admitted it to her. The OM's wife told me. The oms wife also told me he admitted it in court mediation.

I will not let her bait me, I just really dont know what to say to her. I know shes mad, defensive and dosent really know what she wants. the last thing I want to do now is close any doors.

Please have mortman or who ever else you can think of give me some clues, tips or whatever.

If my wife would talk to me I know without a doubt she would realize I love her more than any affair could seperate. I know most people who know us thhought I would be the one doing this.

My track record speaks for itself, I have never cheated. 1000000000000% faithful.

I just dropped the kids off, I asked the wife how she was doing, she said fine I asked if she was ok and she said yes, I the told her I was told the OM admitted to the affair in his mediation. She blew her stack, telling me I was crazy, she has supoenaed everyone, including my own parents. She denied the affair and told me
I was the sole reason she left, I asked about the cell phone and she said the OM did buy her a cell phone. She then told me her father has given her ALL the money. She said she got all of the inorogotories from my attorney and was very mad about having to Answer them all.
She saw my Sister in law at the grocery store and
ignored her, did not even wave just had a very mean look on her face.

I now have my doubts about this Marriage Builder stuff. I have been so nice, not saying a word
telling her I understand etc. nothing has even come within 100 miles of working. is this normal
or is she just that pissed off ?

Steve, I am sorry it is going so badly, but I assure you that fighting with her is not the answer. It only emboldens her and helps her rationalize her affair. What do you think you should be doing that would be more effective?

Steve, you need to start thinking with a clear mind and come to the realization that she may not be coming back to you. There's no guarantee on this MB stuff. Her reaction when you told her you knew the OM admitted to the affair in court tells me she is planning to try and put all the blame on you and take everything she can from you. Since he has money they probably have a good lawyer who is going to try and take it all. If you show in court she had the affair that puts her at fault and seriously damages their case. Get photographic evidence of them ASAP!

I have all the evidence the OM's wife had, she will even testify for me. I have accecpted the fact she may not and probably will not be back.
I was told to tell her but damn, who the hell knew she would act like that. I dont care how much money he has, he was busted in his divorce
my wife was the person he had tha affair with.

I feel well about my case, I dont see how she can get much more than child support which i dont think she deserves since she left and had an affair.

Since she denies the affair do I tell her father ?

That's what I mean. If you want custody of the kdis then tell that to the court and then demand child support from her. He has money so their lawyer will be pulling out all the stops to try and put the blame on you. That's why I'm saying get some photographic evidence, even if the OM admitted the affair in his case, their high-priced lawyer may pull some kind of stunt to not allow it in your case.

I don't know why you would tell your wife's father. What are you trying to accomplish? To get your wife to admit to the affair? My wife never admitted to hers, even 3 years later if I bring it up she avoids the issue. Some women just won't admit it even in the face of overwhelming evidence. They just can't say it. Parents only want their children to be happy and he would probably support her even if she was wrong. She could have told him she just isn't happy anymore and wants to change.

her father never took up for her the 14 years we were married when her mother called her a whore and told her she was never welcome in her house. They never came to the kids birthday parties. seenthe kids 3 or 4 times a year when the wife and her mother were not fighting. the father never took up for his ONLY daughter.

What do I want. Justice, she has told the neighbors i am insan/crazy. seems funny that when they need something or help doing something they wind up in my yard.

Since I have been done wrong/hurt. I guess I really want to see her hurt. i love her still to this day i would take her back, I can forgive her, him NEVER. Custody in Alabama is nearly
impossible to get. I have one of the top
attorneys in the state. everyone I have asked
tells me my attorney is far and away better than
hers. I had the chance to get her attorney and passed. I dont need to get pictures, I have OMs ex that will testfy, his credit card recipts, cell records emergency contact records for my kids with his phone number on them signed by the wife.......I have been told my 401k is now safe and no alimony for her, and the chances of her getting the house are close to zero.

What do I want, a damn chance like everyone else got.

Steve:

"I now have my doubts about this Marriage Builder stuff. I have been so nice, not saying a word
telling her I understand etc. nothing has even come within 100 miles of working. is this normal
or is she just that pissed off ? "

This is NORMAL, though this si2ation may be a bit more "dramatic" than the average.

Steve, her world is falling apart, and she's blowing up at YOU for it. It's falling apart because your application of MB techniques IS working. But it is certainly true that MB can't "guarantee" a particular outcome. It is GREAT at restoring MOST marriages, even after divorce, but it isn't a certainty. I would almost go so far as 2 say it can guarantee recovery - in your case personal recovery.

Back a page or so ago, I think you and Layer were talking about "letting go" and moving on. Well, they're not quite the same thing. Letting go is a healthy thing, and something you should do whether you recover your M or not. Let go of resentment, control, anger, assumptions, expectations. This is very different from "giving up", which unfor2nately a lot of people choose 2 do as well. Giving up does NOT help you recover as an individual, so you run the very real risk of having the same problems that went unadressed in THIS marriage cropping up in the next one. Really, concepts of "letting go" and "giving up" should not be directly associated with "moving on." Moving on may be what you end up DOING, but letting go is a healthy thing you should be doing now. Giving up is something you should NOT do, and what MB will help you prevent.

At the same time, you certainly need 2 protect yourself and your kids financially from your W's erratic behavior right now. You are doing this for HER 2, but she can't see it.

When Mortarman gets time, he'll give you some great advice about how 2 implement plan B. He's one of the greats.

best,
-ol' 2long

The only contact I now have with my wife is when I call for the kids and she picks up the phone. I say hi and ask to speak with the kids. That's all. She is in the back ground telling the kids to tell me things, like tell daddy I had to take you to the doctor and the med cost 150.00.
The she will say stuff like oh he dosent have money for that but he has money to buy himself clothes. I will only be able to fully let go when this is done and I can redecorate the house,
change things around, get her name off the checking account etc. I have been nice very nice.
I let her ramble on and do like you say, last night she told me her and her father now hate themselfs for asking and me being a paul bearer
at the mothers/wifes funeral. I just told her I was sorry they felt that way. That it nothing extra. once she denied the affair I told her I know he admitted it and asked her if she was going to tell me. she Denied it. She then told me she was going to need counseling when this was done, I asked her if we could go together and she said all she wants from me is a DIVORCE
and wants to take everything I have. She said she hopes I am homeless when this is over..

Steve:

again, it's the drama for her!

Pay for the medical bill if it's reasonable 2 do so. Don't argue about whether you need a new pair of boxers or not. We all do even2ally!

She's pissed because she's WRONG and she knows it.

Just don't play games with her.

Have you noticed that you're having more time 2 contemplate your own shortcomings when you dwell less on what she's doing? I hope so. I know I did. It's THEN that you can make leaps and bounds in personal growth!

-ol' 2long

I dont argue with her, but it get tough hearing all the time how sorry i am, am whats going to happen to me. She tells me to call the kids at 6:30 but is not there, The clothes she is talking about is a leather jacket. I did not have any jacket and bought it. I heard about this
for 3 weeks and she still brings it up. The other night I told the wife I understand I did not meet her Emotional needs, This is when she said she would need counseling now but more or less said she hated my guts. I did not argue with her. done just what she wanted. I then told her goodnight and left.

Steve:

And you're getting BETTER at it, though I'm sure you may not feel like you are. I know, again, that that's just how I felt for the longest time.

Keep it up!

-ol' 2long

The Om admitted the affair, he called his wife last night telling her I was a piece of Sh**.
I told his wife to tell him to call me with any comments about myself he may have. He will not call. Cant wait to get this over...when do I plan b and how do I do it with kids?

I'm ready to go for the throat....

one of the Kids school teacher told me yesterday at the school they would testify or write a letter for me about what a wonderful parent I was.

Steve:

I wouldn't seek 2 talk 2 the OM. He's pond scum, and you don't need 2 debate your qualities with pond scum.

plan B isn't about going for the throat. Plan D may be, but even it shouldn't be.

-ol' 2long

gblogbd: Hey, I have read your post. I'm sorry you are feeling the pain that is voiced in this site. I would like to address the child support issue with you. Child support is for the child or children not the spouse. You will always have those children even if you divorce your spouse. You will have to deal with visitation if awarded sole custody. Your child needs to be the TOP priority in this. You can go to counseling and get help for your pain. Your child on the other hand is a minor(under 18) and not well suited to deal with divorce of his/her parents. Your child will be have to sort though all the feelings you have plus more. The child will have feelings for what the BOTH of you do and did in this matter. For your childs' sake and mental health in future, do not make any ugly remarks about your spouse. You can tell them "We are having a marital problem and trying to work things out. We have hurt EACH other and it is hard to deal with these feelings. I love you and am sorry you have seen this pain. Do you want to talk with me about how YOU are feeling?" Your child will get to experience both sides of you and your spouse. They will see the love/hate relationship and will then be fearful that YOU will turn on them also. Pay your child support and always do for your own child. When this has past, either way, you will have to face your child and years later you will have set the EXAMPLE how to handle this crisis and others. Lets pray that you will have shown them the best example of unconditional love for them and their parent. Years later they will learn the meaning of 'unfaithful' but try not to teach them 'unforgiving' by your own standard. NOW more than ever, You must "Do as I do" not "do as I say not as I do". Please don't try to teach your spouse a LESSON and get the same one from yourself. Been there and done that and the kids never forget and forgiving is hard when you failed it the first time.....Peace

I do not talk bad about their mother, I tell them I hope Mommy comes home soon. They tell me all the time they want to stay with me. When it is time to take them back they call the wife ank ask if they can stay longer. when I talk to them on the phone we talk 30 min. when they talk to the wife they talk 5. I know the child support is for the kids, thats what it is intended for, my wife will not spend it on the kids. she has all new clothes, shoes, goes to get her nails done, tanning salon, out to eat ALL the time.
Once the money leaves my hands its not mine, but I see where its going, I dont have to like it.
One day she will see whats going on. The OM is in debt to his eyes. He will cut her off, drop her, he has a past record of this. I just hope she looks to me for help when its done.

Hey Steve, I have been thinking about your situation since last night and I wonder if you are not ready for Plan B. I think she is so committed to demonizing you that any decent actions on your part only seems to EMBOLDEN her and further infuriate her.

Plan A has been good in that that you have not been giving her any ammunution but I wonder if you would take the wind out of her sails if you cut off all contact? It would also protect you from her abuse as I see your love bank running in the red here.

With her, I think you need to cut off ALL contact and communicate only through an intermediary. Is there someone you can use who would help you with this? You could also set up stipulated visitation times and indicate in your Plan B letter that she is only to contact you in the event of an EMERGENCY. And if she does contact you otherwise, tell her to please refer to your PBL and end the call.

What do you think?

I dont know, when the kids call how will I know its them on the phone and not the wife if I answer it. When I call for them each night, what if she answers the phone. I dont think she would have a problem with this, she dosent make ANY effort to call or talk to me. Mainly just blabs in the back ground when I talk to the kids. Dosent even tell me about the report cards they got. I hear her all the time tell them to get off the phone when we are talking, I pick the girls up from school on Fridays and return them on Sundays. Are you talking about getting someone else to drop them off, another family member ? she hates all of my family including ny sister in law whom she was very close to.

Steve, you won't know if its the kids or her calling, but you still answer it and if its her, you politely ask her if this is an emergency. If its not, then you refer her to your PBL and end the call. FIRMLY ask her to respect your request for no contact.

You could still pick the kids up and drop them off without seeing her. She doensn't have to like the intermediary, but it would be preferable that it be someone who is not seen as threat. Who can you think of?

The idea of the PBL will be to end all contact, tell her you love her but you are moving on because you find yourself falling out of love, and arrange housekeeping issues. You should also give her a clear path to back to you IF she meets certain stipulations. By that, I mean you tell her that her affair has caused you a great deal of pain and that you would only consider discussing reconciliation once contact has ended with the OM.

You would designate an intermediary so that no more contact takes place. And tell her that she needs to send any messages through this intermediary and NOT through the girls. Tell her since the situation is hard on the girls that any messages sent through them will not be considered.

What do you think?

If you want to do it, I would look at other letters here and let us give you feedback on your letter. But whatever you do, Steve, please don't make it long, sappy and sentimental like some of the PB letters you see here. That will NOT WORK with your wife. She is emotionally detached so that would just push her in the wrong direction.

MEL, all this sounds good, but it almost like the final straw, is this right. I really dont like to get others involved, this BS about listing people we plan to call as witnesses in the divorce case is bad enough. If I decide to take the kids back and she come outside can I just ignore her. Not say anything to her or is
seeing her the same as contact?