Well,it's not over til it's over right? Even though she may not be talking to you,you also have to let her know how you feel and sometimes when it's on paper,it is more focused and makes sense to a WS.

There is not any guarantee that she will stop the D proceddings or whatever,but you still must move on and focus on you and those kids.If she ever turns around and says she is having second thoughts,then you could be ready if so inclined.

Also,the 180 degree list which has floated around here may be how you should interact with WW if and when you do.Plan B just requires that you stop contact with her & having that letter is showing her that there is a way back and this is how,etc.Unfortunately you did not have the "luxury" of implementing a good plan b since your WW is in such a rush to end things but there is always hope all the way to the end.But it's up to you if you send the letter.

And I would also hasten to add that I would not put too much stock in what your WW is trying to do by luring the kids into her dysfunctional world.She seems terribly insecure,immature and selfish to try and use the kids and material things to make them "happy" to be with her.She is very misguided in her thought processes.It's like a battle now for her to see which parent will "win out" over the kids.Very sad.

Anyway,as someone else here mentioned,live a life that *you can be proud of and that you will have no regrets.Your daughters will respect that when they are old enough to know who was really there for them when they needed it and who was just trying to buy them off.

O

I am sending the girls Valentines gifts. I am not going to send the wife anything, is this OK?
or is this a LB. Remember she returned the Christmas gift.
I have not given her the Plan B letter yet.
I did not get much feed back on it, wanting to make sure all is fine with it first.

Personally, I would not give your WW anything for Valentine's Day.You're Da**** if you do and da**** if you don't really but based on her previous reaction to gifts,she may feel more angry at any attempts by you.So IMO don't.

O

I'm not going to send anything to her, I am having a florist deliver some Kids packs they have, stuffed animal, Kids makeup etc for the girls. For the wife nothing.

Steve, did you send your Plan B letter?

P.S. heck no you shouldn't send her anything for Valentines.

I have not sent the letter yet, I was going to wait until I got all of the evidence from the OM's attorney. This should be next week. OM's ex told me she had to go sign some paperwork before they can send it over.
Not to worry, I am not going to send V'day gift
for the wife. I would like to because I love her.
But i Will not because of the situation she has created.

NEED EXPERT ADVICE HERE,
Last night I got a cal from one of my very good friends who the wife knows very well. She called him and was telling him she was going to try and destroy me etc.. he started asking her questions as to why she left etc, she told him she was never happy and he told her that was bs. because you have 2 children, she only mentioned the 2 times I let her down, her told her that was insane to leave, he asked her if she was having an affair, she said no. friend told wife that OM was spreading all of the rumors about her not me.
Wife told him he was crazy and he showed/told her proof. she still had a had time beliving him.
She asked friend what I have been doing, where I have been going out and really wanted to know where I was New Years eve(first time we ever made love 17years ago) he told her he did not know. She asked who I spoke with etc. Friend asked wife why she called him, wife said several months ago she hated him and thought he was talking about her. she asked him why he did not get her number and call her. friend told her he had no reason, wife said she did not understand why everybody was feeling sorry for me.
Friend and wife should talk today. Why this late
turn of events, friend said she was trying to dig up dirt on me. its not there. wife also called another friend several weeks ago and he told her everyone is looking for the old S*****
and dosent know who she has become. All she said was I made her this way she now has a backbone.
Friend is going to talk to her today sometime.
more or less tell her people miss her and still love her and want her back, he has proven to her the OM has told several people about them, people that do not even know me or the wife.
people where OM used to work is telling my friend things, they have no idea friend knows me.
hope all this makes sense.
please give some helpful advice!!

Steve:

Ah, the defication is hitting the ventilation!

Look. Stay clean. Stay NC. Stay dark.

She's asking about you because she cares, even though she's still slamming you. You've done a great job at not getting pulled in2 her drama. Keep doing that.

She is solely responsible for her lot in life, not you. Someday she'll realize that.

-ol' 2long

Talked to the kids tonight, the wife was in the back ground going "oh aint we daddy of the year"
hey L*****We have to take you to the Dr office real loud so I could hear, the kids talk to me on speaker phone so they can both talk. The wife was banging pots and pans by the phone tonight. I never made a sound, when she was through I started talking to the kids again. I was talking to one of the kids about her toys and the wife said " Yea, it's great that Santa is not as cheap as some people" Again, I never said a word.
SHe said oother mumbling stuff I could not quite make out but know it was about me, because I heard her say stupid.
I talked to them about 15 min and told them I would talk to them tommorrow.
I have not given her the plan B letter, still waiting on stuff from OM's wifes attorney before I do. I have noot spoke to my friend today to see if wife called him again. Im sure she will.

Steve, do you want custody of your kids if you end up getting divorced?

If so, then go down to radio shack and buy some telephone recording equipment and start recording these phone calls on the speaker phone. It costs like $50 and it's really easy to set up. Her making ridiculous statements like "Santa not being so cheap" etc will help out in court to show her unstable and unfit to keep the kids.

Steve, why are you waiting on the OM's attorney to send the Plan B letter? You don't need to wait. I would suggest just sending it right away. And ignore her nasty tirades. Gee, she sounds like a real sweetheart!

I am going to start recording, Last night I was talking to the girls on the speaker phone, The wife walked by and said " Stop the nice crap, it makes me sick to hear it, then she could not get me off the speaker phone so she said call back and hung up the phone. When I called back to talk to the kids she was telling me " I know your telling everyone I will not let you see the kids, (lie, I never said that)I did not say a word to her, she then kept asking me do you remember what you said a long time ago ?
I just said, Can I please talk to the girls, she
kept rambling. I hung up the phone, she called back and all I said was cna i speak to the girls.
I never acknowledged what she said.

I then heard her tell the girls they were going someplace on Saturday as a family.

Still waiting on fallout from florist delivering stuff to the kids but not the wife!!She might have thrown out the stuff for the kids, i am going to check with the florist today.

Steve, have you considered trying to get custody? Her chronic debasing of you in front of the kids almost constitutes abuse. Imagine how hard it is on those kids to not only lose their home but to have their dad bashed in front of them like this night and day.

I would go to Radio Shack today and start taping these conversations and then you can either address her about it or take steps to get custody.

That Plan B letter needs to go out NOW. If not, you are not in control of this situation at all.

Why is my wife so darn mean, all of you seem to at least get to talk to you husb. or wife.
Mine left a July 3 and talked on on off like all was ok thinking I would just roll over and give her the quick Divorce, after Sept when her mother passed away her eyes turned red. she HATES
my guts, no question about it, Do I still try and stall the divorce? could it be because the word is getting around that she and my ex friend of 21 years had an affair and now they have to sneak around and cant see each other like they did right under my nose ?
what can I expect?

Steve,

Here is what you can expect. In short...more of the same for awhile. The Radio Shack idea is GREAT!! You need to start gathering forces and info. Be ready for anything.

I went thru this a year ago (and my wife is home now...although yours might not make it back...time will tell). You need to protect yourself first, and also your kids. She walked out, she had an affair, she is trying to end the relationship (and destroy the family unit). She is the one who is scarring those kids thru her actions, and her words. It is NOT an LB to stand up for yourself, and for those kids. As a matter of fact, it is the BEST way for her to garner respect for you again (in order to have an affair, she has to have no respect for you). You see, when you stand up to her over the kids, over defense of the family, over defense of your marriage...well, sure, she will get angry. But underneath, she will begin to feel respect for you.

If you are a Christian, let me let you in on a little secret. Do you know that the Bible NEVER calls for a woman to love her husband? Oh, it commands a husband to love his wife like Christ loves us. But, the wife is never called to do the same. What is she called to do? Submit and respect. And she is doing neither right now.

But, when you stand up, when you, in a non-threatening or angry way, stand up for youyr marriage, your family, and those kids...well, it will begin to instill respect in her. She HAS to! You are now an adversary to what she THINKS she wants. If you roll over, well...no respect. But when you say "Enough, wife. I cannot stop you from doing what you are doing to yourself, but I can certainly defend this marriage, this family, and those kids from your destructive behavior. It might make you angry...so be it. If another person was hurting my wife, my kids and my family like you are, you had better believe that I would do anything I could to protect those that I love. Well, in this case, it is you that is causing this damage to yourself, to those kids and to our family. And I will not allow it!"

By standing up, preparing yourself for battle...you will instill respect in her. And for a woman, she MUST respect her man in order to love him. One of the first things my wife said when she came home and we were talking about the affair was that the launching point for her beginning to decide to come home was when I stood up to her.

Now Steve, there is no need to raise your voice. As a matter of fact, just DO what you have to do (apply for custody, tape her interactions with you, record EVERYTHING she says and does daily in a journal, etc). When she finds out that you are defending your marriage and family, she WILL become angry. VERY ANGRY!! She will try to intimidate you, to threaten all kids of things. Ignore it all! she only has the power to do what you let her do.

With my wife, I began assembling tapes, recordings of our conversations, I wrote in a journal. I began to find people she had talked to, and record their recollections in my journal so that they might be subpoened later. I made sure that any recollection about something Mommy said by the children was recorded in that journal (note: DO NOT go asking them "What is Mommy doing" or "What is Mommy saying."...if they say it, record it. Otherwise, leave them out of the middle of the battle.).

Do not consider any bit of information small. Record it all. When your lawyer gets all of this, it will save you a lot of money because you have done a lot of background work for him/her. But also, having this info...and then your wife finds out later, is like an enemy showing up with a knife to a gun fight. She will then realize that she is woefully ill-prepared for the battle that is to ensue.

Now, that sounds like I think this marriage is over and it is time to play hard ball. But I am not. By having the ammo, it doesnt mean you have to use it...or even threaten to use it. By having the ammo, it does several things:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It causes you to relax more, knowing that you are in control of the situation and it will be YOU that will be dictating things if they go to divorce.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It causes her to fear that she has already lost. And in a battle, any battle, if you can get the enemy to question whether they can win or not...then they have already lost.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife has the advatage in custody...she is a woman. But, there are many things that you can do to make up ground. Do them now. As I outlined above (and your lawyer can help you with more).</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife will begin to respect you. When she has a "knife" and you have a "bazooka," she HAS to have respect for you. And it is that respect that will eventually pen her in (more on this below).</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
All of these actions help you to prepare for the worst. At the same time, they begin to squeeze her tighter into her box. Let me explain.

When she went out into the affair...and moved out, she felt initially freedom. Freedom from EVERYTHING, not just you. But, it was all a lie. And as the "chickens come home to roost," she will begin to see the consequences of her actions. She will begin to be penned in. When she isnt allowed to abuse you anymore because you are in Plan B, then she is stuck with her anger alone (you had better believe that the OM doesnt want to constantly hear about you, even if it is in anger). When she realizes that she has hurt her situation in regards to custody, she will begin to see that she cant just erase you from her life...and that she may be losing her kids (at least for half of the rest of their lives). When she realizes you have your legal act together, she begins to realize that she cant just "take everything," and that she may be stuck with much less than she expected.

Do you see what I am talkign about here. Prepare for war, and then stand back. When she learns that you have amassed an "army," and that you havent use it, she will wonder why. Why? She will think "If I had all of this on him, if I was this well prepared, you had better believe I would use it. Why hasnt he?"

When she starts asking that question, it will then be when the chance for her to realize your love again. For she will see that there is no other reason why you didnt "destroy" her, why you didnt go thru with the divorce (but instead didnt even try to particiapte in it). She will see your Plan B letter. And she will wonder.

But right now...it is time to gird yourself up. Get into a position of strength. It will make you feel better and keep you less anxious. And it will begin to start the process of closing in the walls on her.

She may still not come back. But in that case, you will be prepared for the end. But in either case (going, or returning), she has to come to a position of surrender. She has to be brought to bankruptsy. You dont need to force her ther, she is doing just fine on her own. Just document, set up boundaries, and hold your ground.

And watch her world implode. Then, you will have your opportunity to turn this "war" into your favor...and maybe win your wife back. At the very least, you can save those remaining in your family.

In His arms.

Thanks Mort, I have been documenting when she takes the kids out, shopping etc. I have the recorder and tapes and will record every conversation from here on out. My wife took the kids to the Dr yesterday and has not told me, How can I give her money for the Dr co-pay if she dosent tell me.Or prescriptions. I still give her money to for the kids, I either mail it or put the check on the front door. All I ask the kids is how there day went and what they did, I have always done this. I have not spoke to my wife in over a month. I am sure the OM still gives her money. same as her father. I have lots of ammo and really dont want to use it, it will make her look bad, I know the oM is
telling her all kinds of stuff cause the OMs wife said he talked bad about me to her. Some friend dont you think. Should I go to the kids Dr and find out the prescription and send her 1/2 the money for it or do nothing since she did
not tell me. While in Plan B I cant talk to her,
she now hates the sister in law for no reason, and the neighbor will not talk to me because she is the wifes friend. There are so many twists.
I guess next time the wife tells the kids to tell me something I will get her on the phone and tell her not to relay messages thru the kids.
All she want to tell me is her attorney is going
to make me look like a jerk, brings up the same
things that hurt her.

Steve, those were great suggestions that Mortarman gave you! I hope you contact your attorney about trying to get custody. That should shake her up a bit.

As far as paying the medical bills, leave that up to her to contact you. And if the girls come bearing a message, tell them to tell your W that she has to contact you herself. When she does tell her to stop sending messages thru the girls, that you won't have them dragged into it. She can send a message thru your intermediary.

I sent the plan B letter, I have not heard from her about it yet. waiting on the fallout.
I have asked for all of her Dr visits and prescriptions filled, also all of cell records!!
This will shake her up for sure. Looks like she has been visiting several Drs days apart..

Why did you ask her for records of doctors visits and prescriptions? Because she asked you to pay for them? I would not pay anything unless you had the actual bill. How come you asked her for the cell phone bill?