Sarie,

Like JL says, you are still missing the point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I won't have another affair; that makes it sound like what the OM and I had was just something for fun and excitement and doesn't bring into focus the love and caring.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your affair (yes, it was an affair) is no more special than mine was. A year ago, I may have taken offense, because you are implying that I didn't love or care for my OW. I certainly believed that I did. Harley's methods are predicated on the assumption that the affairs partners are in fact "IN LOVE."

It sounds like you are keeping your husband out of your innermost thoughts. You are refusing to be emotionally intimate with him. You've convinced yourself that sparing him the pain is somehow "noble." It isn't - it debases your entire relationship. How is this any different than refusing to be physically intimate with him? Would he tolerate a marriage without physical intimacy? I doubt it. Why don't you give him the chance to decide if he's willing to live without emotional intimacy as well? You have never given him the oppotunity to help you heal. Sure, it wasn't his fault, but he loves you and would be hurt that you are not turning to him in your time of need.

You stated all the little things you are doing to try to make up for your affair. I tell you that I could hire someone to do all (plus SF) of that for a lot less than it takes to support my wife. Would it make me love them? Don't think so.

What can you do for your H that no one else can? Think about it.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ours son's death is NOT why I had an affair..
And it wasn't because something was wrong with our marriage.
It was because of the love and caring that developed between the OM and myself.
What started innocently, evolved into a deep deep love!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question is: If you were in a healthy marriage, why did you let this happen? Do you know? If you don't, then you haven't solved your problem and YES, you will be vulnerable to a future affair.

I was imperative that I understand why I did what I did so I could take steps to make sure it didn't happen again.

You cannot continue liveing the same life you did and expect things to be different.

You've already proven that you cannot trust yourself. How do you know you'll never have another affair if you don't take postive steps to make sure you don't?

Low

Sarie:

Whippit's 2uote of yours says a lot about the "true" status of your M:

"Low, I try to make up for my unfaithfulness in so many small ways;;;"

Why would you do this, if you don't feel guilty? And how do you expect 2 keep it intact if you do?

"I don't ever raise my voice at him, even when he is angry and carrying on;;;;"

And this is good for WHO, exactly?

"I even washed the dog poop from his shoes for him yesterday;;;;"

Why? Were you the dog that... Never mind! You're trying 2 mask your guilt by doing these favors, all the while artificially building resentment FOR YOUR H. This will lead you right smack dab in2 another A.

"I walk a mile with him every evening even though it is below freezing as he likes my companionship;;;;"

What a great guy! Do you like his companionship 2? Or is THIS another source of resentment?

"I have his supper on the table when he walks in the door;;;;"

Does he ever make dinner for YOU? He should. More resentment-building. Only he doesn't know, because you're not honest with him. Sarie, it's great that you're able 2 be honest with US, but it's only the beginning. You NEED 2 be this honest with HIM. Or release him 2 love someone else.

"I just decorated our big real Christmas tree that we cut down without asking him to help;;;;"

Why not ask him 2 help? My W never asked me, or didn't much. Christmas after D-day, last year, I just jumped in and helped. We got the kids involved. Probably the first time ever that we all decorated the tree from start 2 finish 2gether. It was FUN. I bet that if your H knew just how unhappy you are, how guilty you feel, how mediocre your M is, he'd be happy 2 walk that extra mile for YOU once in a while. Try it, you'll like it.

"I know these are superficial things and don't get to the emotional root of the problem BUT I don't see it as a problem that HE CAN FIX"

And you won't ever see it that way until you are REAL with him and he KNOWS what 2 fix!

Be authentic.

-2long

Sarie:

"The OM and I are still in contact....He calls once or twice a month (I think he worries about me, how I am dealing with us being OVER.)"

Bull feathers! If he cared, he'd HELP you by NOT reminding you, jerking you back emotionally 2 the A. This guy is CRUEL, not loving. Rat Meat did the same thing, as did my W, for almost 2 YEARS after the A "ended." Now he's getting DVd, and he's still not honest with his sons as 2 why.

"We also e-mail friendly notes, about twice a week. (Not love letters.)"

Bull feathers again! BLOCK HIS EMAILS. You are NOT friends. You trashed your friendship when you let things get out of control. You cannot and should not even try 2 rebuild this friendship. The most loving thing you could do for him, your H, and the OM's new GF is get out of his life for the rest of your life. You haven't really even started this yet.

-ol' 2long

Dear 2 Long.
The thought of never ever talking with him again is beyond my finite comprehension!
And yes, sometimes the conversations are of our reminiscing about previous rendevous...
Not healthy in moving on away from one another!Yes, contact should stop!

I am definitely not there yet, though, in the 'withdrawal process!'
Sarah

P.S. I sense a lot of unresolved 'anger' and perhaps a lack of understanding in you, towards anyone that has been unfaithful to their mate!
Am I correct about that?

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Sarie,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The thought of never ever talking with him again is beyond my finite comprehension!
And yes, sometimes the conversations are of our reminiscing about previous rendevous...
Not healthy in moving on away from one another!Yes, contact should stop!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on what you have posted, it's apparent that your affair is still in progress. You are NOT in withdrawal, you are NOT in recovery.

As long as your affair is ongoing, nothing said here will make any difference. It will all sound like foolishness to you.

I wish you luck in ending your affair if that is what you truly desire to do.

Low

Sarie:

"The thought of never ever talking with him again is beyond my finite comprehension!"

My W said something like this during a week in July, 2002, when I thought I was in plan B:

2uote: You both have so much to offer! I hate that I would ever have to choose!

2long: I understand that this is very hard for you. But you need 2 understand that there is absolutely no alternative BUT 2 choose.

"And yes, sometimes the conversations are of our reminiscing about previous rendevous..."

Not what you said above. Look, my W kept telling me that her emails 2 RM were private and were never "inappropriate", but he would make sexual inuendos 2 her in the VERY few emails I saw after D-day, and she would tell him that she felt trapped being M'd, or that marriage was "legalized prosti2tion". Do you ever talk like that with your OM? What do you say when you're reminiscing about your previous rendezvous? Anything that would bother your H 2 read? I thought so.

"Not healthy in moving on away from one another!Yes, contact should stop!"

And there is only one way 2 stop it: STOP IT. NOW. COLD TURKEY. You cannot "wean" yourself off contact. Don't even pretend that you'll be the first, in all of human his2ry, 2 be able 2 do this. You'll fail.

"I am definitely not there yet, though, in the 'withdrawal process!'

I know, and I'm not going 2 bash you for this, though you may feel like I am even now. My W 2k a year and a half 2 BEGIN the withdrawl process. Only when she had begun it was she able 2 see how much renewed contact hurt ME when it occurred recently. We're formulating OUR NC agreement now.

"P.S. I sense a lot of unresolved 'anger' and perhaps a lack of understanding in you, towards anyone that has been unfaithful to their mate!
Am I correct about that?"

I don't think so, but I can see how it might seem like I'm angry at you, or my FWW, or any WS (or OP). I'm angry at s2pidity in general, not at s2pid people in particular. I've done many s2pid things, before and after D-day. I'm learning, as is my FWW. I won't sugar-coat my views on bad behavior. I hope that it's unders2d, however, that I don't "hate" people.

As I continue 2 grow from my experiences and interactions on these boards, my understanding improves. I hope it doesn't sound arrogant when I say that I believe I understand your predicament better than you do right now, because I saw what it's done 2 my W for so long (2long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

best,
♥2long

Thanks for your reply 2long.
I have cried and wept as I have read all these messages today, more than I have cried and wept for several weeks.

I actually thought I was healing, moving forward and away from OM but today seems especially remembering how it was before August and the new lady came into his life.

I am sure you do understand better than I and can see CLEARLY my FOGGY thinking.

I know when I read others 'foolishness', I can see the right path they should take but when it is me getting back on the right road in my life, it is certainly not as CLEAR .
Love, Sarah

"I know when I read others 'foolishness', I can see the right path they should take but when it is me getting back on the right road in my life, it is certainly not as CLEAR ."

That's true for all of us, Sarah.

♥2long

how sad <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Sarie,

Withdrawal can't start unless there is NC. Everytime you have contact your withdrawal clock start from zero again and you will look at your H using a very dark glasses.

Knowing is one thing doing is completely different story.

You need to beleive in you ...

No matter the outcome you should try ... 2 be honest w/ yourself and loved one.

Maybe H would Dv you, maybe he would be your best support in the whole world and his love might just what you need to change your dark glasses to a very rosy glasses ...

-rh-

<small>[ December 16, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Not My Will, But Thy Will Be Done ]</small>

You may think that your husband doesn't know about your affair but on subconscious level he knows. He knows by your body language, expressions etc. He might not want to accept that the woman he loves could betray him but deep down he knows. It might come out in a argument,etc. It might even come out in him having an affair. Sarie, he may be waiting for you to come to him and apologize for what you did. Your continued dishonesty will further weaken the foundation of your marriage.

I believe that some of the reply posts seen here, truly missed the message that Sarah was attempting to convey. It seems that she was truly trying to help the "victims" of infidelity. How? By showing them that they indeed are NOT responsible for whatever it is their WS choose to do. Perhaps many who have been hurt do not wish to Hear what she has to offer. But is it constuctive to attack those WS's who actually do give us all a glimpse into how they think and why they do what they do?

If you don't agree with her choice to stay silent about her own affair, then join the club, cause neither do I. But by showing many a BS that it is the WS decision to stray, can be a help to many. Because as a BS we do tend to believe we either did do or didn't do something to cause our husband/wife to hurt us in the worst way possible.

I think I have a healthy attitude about this. I don't take responsiblity for my wife having an affair.

However, I do take responsiblity for my failure to understand and meet her needs. I do know that I could have worked much harder and been more attentive to her.

So I have a clear line where I take responsiblity up to a point, my actions, and I do not take responsiblity for her actions.

-jC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by top rope:
<strong> I believe that some of the reply posts seen here, truly missed the message that Sarah was attempting to convey. It seems that she was truly trying to help the "victims" of infidelity. How? By showing them that they indeed are NOT responsible for whatever it is their WS choose to do. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think most BS' here already know they aren't responsible for the affair, that has never been an issue. I think Sarie needs to first help her own victims at home before she attempts to help others. Compassion starts at home, doesn't it?

Sarie, don't tell!

Sarah,
I haven't posted to you before, but like you I am a FWW. I didn't have to tell my husband...he found out. I really admire the WS who tells....it has got to take a tremendous amount of courage.

From what you say, I don't think you are ready to tell him...so I am not going to approach my suggestions to you from that angle...I think you will tell him eventually, but meanwhile maybe there are some other things you can do to help your marriage become stronger.

You said that you did things for him....but you don't mention talking to him about your needs. My husband was very unaffectionate, and I found it extrememly difficult to communicate to him that I was needed more. After finding this website and reading suggestions from other FWW, (and by the way, I sounded a whole lot like you) I started POURING out love on my husband even though I believed I truely loved the OM but couldn't be with him. I intiated sf, and affection slowly and more often than ever before. I reached for his hand when I could, hugged him often, left him notes, etc. I have been amazed at the results. Now I think of my husband during the day, and wonder what he is doing instead of constantly thinking of the OM.

The posters on this message board are right about NC. Especially since the OM in your life is moving on...you need to let go. Send him a NC letter...you will feel so free after you do it. There will be moments (well, maybe more than moments) of missing and longing for him, but they will begin to diminish if you start pouring out your love to your husband. You have to do something to 'replace' the OM in your life....and it should be your husband!!!!

I, like you, thought the OM was the greatest. Someone on this board pointed out to me that my thoughts of him were at my husbands expense. They were right about that...and the NC too! It took me a long time to 'get' it on the NC thing...but it is in YOUR best interest...and your husband's too.

So...instead of decorating the tree, and cleansing up the dog poop....(nothing wrong with either of course)...tell your husband you are going to plan a date for the two of you! Drive around and look at Christmas decorations...go to a movie...or whatever you think he might enjoy. Tell him how IMPORTANT it is to you that your marriage improve and how you want to be close to him. You can't possibly be that happy and close to him if you think you are in love with the OM. It sounds like you may be lonely in your marriage....I know that I was. It may feel a little artificial at first...but it will get easier as time goes on. You owe it to yourself and your husband to get your focus off the OM.

Another thing that helped us grow closer was go through old family pictures together. I began this time last year (when I was pretty deep with foggy thoughts just like you) going through old Christmas pictures for a slide show on the computer. That helped me realize that I didn't want to throw away the years we had spent together. I looked at the old pictures of him holding our kids, and realized how much I really did care for him. Sharing it with him made us closer....even though I still was in contact with the OM through phone calls and email. Maybe after you and him begin to get a little closer, you will be able to tell him. Good luck, keep posting and reading the boards. Diane

No one has mentioned the fact that disclosure can have serious consequences,very powerful emotions are released.Battle murder and sudden death are not out of the question

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> What if you discovered that you H had an affair and he decided not to tell you, would you let it slide? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sarie,

What are your thoughts on the above post? Would you prefer to know or not know?

L.