Allll righto!!!!! Mr. UN, I am SO happy that you're in Plan B! That changes the approach to the cell phone and the rest of finances dramatically.

Now that you're in Plan B, it's ABSOLUTELY time to get your finances protected from your wife's actions. I agree with what everyone said about a laywer and the costs thereof (it's godawful). However, why bother? Now's the time for a set of straightforward unilateral actions:

- Deactivate the credit cards that are in both your names.
- For the ones that still have debt on them, change the address to her new one. SHE can pay those bills as easily as you can, and she's just as responsible for them as you are.
- Change the locks.
- Remove your name from the cell phone bill or cancel the account, whichever one you can do without her.
- Take her off the car insurance.
- Bill her for the mortgage. Or send that to a collection agency.
- Everything else that is partially her responsibility, make clear that you're not going to pay for.

In other words, stop worrying about how she'll survive, Mr. UN. You're in Plan B. How she does things is NOT YOUR PROBLEM anymore.

Hey, where's the plan B support thread? Mr. UN gets to be a member now!

Oh, and one last thing -- spend some time making a list of all the things that you've thought about doing over the last 6.5 years, things that would improve your character or life in some way, but you weren't able to do them because you were married. Maybe there's some kind of class you want to take, or a hobby you want to return to, or something. Make lists of all those things and post it here. And then start DOING some of it!

Yay, I'm so happy you've stepped off the train, Mr. UN! Now come into the station and get a hot cup of coffee!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let's see...even my parents were really happy with the decisions I've made.

1) The cell phone will be changed to her name before the end of the year (48 hours to go!), or I cancel it.

2) She has been removed as an additional cardholder on my credit card account, and the other three that are in her name are or will be changed to her new address. If not, I drop those bills in her car when they arrive and let her deal with them. We have no joint credit card accounts.

3) I am working on an informal, but legally binding Separation Agreement. Basically, it will put the most important issues in a legal contract that, once signed by each of us, witnesses, and notarized, will be enforceable in court. This will serve many purposes. First, to protect both of us from each other, in case she's also worried about it. Second, to finally give me some peace of mind about how much control she can continue to have over my life. Third, to show that I'm serious about this, in case she has any doubts. Finally, to put the ball back into her court.

For so long, I've felt like I only had two options. Either sit here and take it while suffering immeasurably, or just give up and throw it all away, even though I'm not ready to give up yet. Well now I've found some middle ground. If she accepts this agreement, my income will be protected, my credit will be protected, and she’ll get to have all of her income to live her life, and all without any court filings. If she refuses this agreement, then either she can be the one to take the "next step", or she'll be so obstinate that I can take that "next step" without guilt or regrets.

Hi UN,

Well I too am glad that you have FINALLY taken some positive steps in *your direction.It's high time.Like I mentioned before,once you get into Plna B more,you hopefully will find it freeing like I have.

When you stop obsessing with the WS whereabouts,who they are calling,cell phone minutes,yada yada yada,you can really make YOU the priority.And I'm glad you have taken steps to improve your financial status and protect your assets.So far so good!

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I missed something. When did you decide to go to PLAN B? Did you do a PLAN B letter? I'm not sure you did PLAN A long enough.

I filed for a legal separation with no plans of getting a divorce. Also, I agree with the others. It is necessary to search for a lawyer who won't rip you off. I found a lawyer who was willing to do an inexpensive legal separation agreement with no stipulation that I proceed with using her later. However, another lawyer wanted a portion of all of my assets and wanted to go to court and sue my FWH right away. Think about what's best for your marriage if that's what you're interested in, not what's best from a financial or legal point of view. Lawyers just care about finances. JMHO. Once my FWH and I reconciled or had SF our legal separation agreement was null and void. However, the legal separation agreement was a necessity to protect myself. What I am saying is that your marital relationship and the legal/financial aspect or two different issues and, in my opinion, it is necessary to consider what's best in both areas.

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

LOL, I was just rereading the posts and realized that UN didn't really SAY that he was in Plan B I guess because UN made some progress moving forward with regards to a few things(finances and cell phone,etc) we jumped on that wagon.

UN,are you or are you not going to embrace the Plan B ethics?

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

UN,

I just saw that you were composing a Plan B letter,that you were discussing on the Plan A/Plan B message board.Did you send it yet?

O

Well...

I pretty much recited to her everything I had put into the Plan B letter, but didn't officially give it to her in writing.

I'm also not sure I did Plan A long enough (just over 2 months now), but I feel helpless at the same time. I'm really having a hard time figuring out how much of a Plan A I can do with her moved out, not wanting anything to do with me socially or emotionally, and showing strong irritation whenever I had contacted her.

Plus, I've already told her to her face...

"What you're doing is breaking my heart. It's destroying any trust and respect I had for you. So until you get off the fence and make a decision, I can't be a part of your life. It's just not healthy for me." Then I opened the door for her, and as she walked out, I just said "Take care of yourself" and closed the door behind her.

So if I try to Plan A more, however I might be able to, I'd just be undoing what I already did, and would feel like a weak H who's just waiting for her to come back. Besides, once I came up with these ideas and plans yesterday, for the first time in a LONG time, I felt relaxed, upbeat, and in control of my life.

I don't want to lose that feeling. I can't go back to trying to show love for her, while she continues to ignore me completely, and gives all of her time, energy, and affection to other men.

I'll send the letter if I have to, because it really doesn't matter to me. But since I checked this morning and found that she's also changed the passwords for online access to her credit card accounts.....I really don't trust her. She's not worth getting financially destroyed over. I've already been through one financial disaster in my life, and as a result of a failed relationship too. I'm not going to leave myself set up for that again.

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

Arghhhhh!!! I thought you'd handed her the letter. Dude, put the finishing touches on it and get it in the mail to her pronto.

And then start protecting your assets WITH or WITHOUT her cooperation. Of course you don't trust her -- she's doing very odd things these days, and hurting you to no end. If it takes a legal separation, fine. But remember that there's no reason for her to do what you want her to do.

So:
- Protect your assets as much as you can without her help. It's pretty straightforward to move all the money out of accounts she can get at. If she runs up credit card bills, don't worry about that right now. That's what separation and divorce negotiations are all about, and your lawyer will be HAPPY to tell her lawyer to go suck eggs regarding bills she runs up while she's sleeping with another man.

- Start working on getting the amount of time that you want with your kids. You don't mention them much, but focusing on that part rather than the financial part may be a good change of pace for you.

Ok...

1) I will get the letter printed up and deliver it to her before the end of the day today.

2) I talked to my lawyer about a Separation Agreement. The only way a signed, witnessed, and notarized "contract" of that sort would be enforceable is if she had legal council that confirmed her rights, etc. If not, she could always state that she didn't know what she was signing. So, I've got to go in and make further arrangements, possibly/probably legal separation, and I'd expect that to just be covered under the full umbrella of the Retainer fee...for now.

3) As for being worried about how much more this stuff could cost in the long run, well, right now, we have a lot of assets, but we also have a lot of debt. So all in all, there's really not much to fight over. Basically, we'd have to sell almost everything each of us owns in order to pay off all of our joint debts. So I see no reason why there'd be some long legal battle over a few hundred dollars of music CD's, for example. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

4) I DO NOT want to file for divorce. Absolutely, positively DO NOT. However, I will not be out of control and unprotected in this whole thing either.

5) The kids...oh the kids...well...I don't even know how to feel now. Again, I'm only step-dad by law, and thus have little to no rights regarding them. Beyond that, my wife has made it clear for all 7+ years we've been together that they are HER kids above all else. I love them, I want good things for them, but I don't know how to handle i. I'm sorry to say that I don't miss them individually as much as I miss my wife, or as much as I miss the family as a whole. I've called and talked to them some, when they've been at that house, instead of with other family or friends for days at a time. I've spent some time with them. I've told them that I love them, that I miss them, and that they can call me anywhere, any time of the day or night, for any reason.

But, well, as the 15 year old put it, they have to support mommy. She's their mother, and they want to take care of her too, they want to show their love for her, and they don't want to fight her decisions. So in many ways, I don't think they feel comfortable being around me, which I've really been able to see in the expressions and actions, even on Christmas.

Sometimes I think the best thing to do, at least right now, is to back off and let them all rediscover who they are, what they want, and how they feel.

Yes, it sounds like I'm just giving up. But I also don't want to force anything on them that they really don't want. So for now, I feel that I should just let them live their lives.

The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it. ~ General H. Norman Schwarzkopf

i'm curious, do her kids know she's having extramarital affairs?

I doubt it. I sure haven't told them so.

why not? do her parents know? what about any wives/girlfriends of the other men (at least the ones you know)? also, be sure you copy the om on your plan B letter if you can.

If you truly don't have much, when you balance the debts against the assets, why bother with the financial stuff and a separation agreement at all? What could really happen there other than contributing to the plumpness of your attorney's bank account? I'd stop worrying about it quite so much.

Why not? Because I can't figure out how to tell them. In fact, I doubt I'd tell the 8 year old, only the 15 year old. First, just because she's older, and also because, as she said "She's worried about her little sister, because the youngest has never been through this, but she has." And how would I even tell her? Call her up and say...

"Hey. I just wanted you to know why this is happening. You know that friend your mom has from the Internet? Well, that's her new boyfriend, and when she went on that trip, he flew out to meet her so they could be together. When I let her know that wasn't okay with me, she decided to move out so that she wouldn't have to give up her boyfriend."

As for the rest, yes, her parents know. The primary OM is not attached at all, that I know about. Though now that I have his phone number, I'm tempted to call and see if I can find anything else out. The other guy she's been spending hours upon hours on the phone with over the past week is divorced and uninvolved, which I know for sure. He may not even be doing anything "inappropriate". It's just that the timing is such a coincidence.

See, I had talked with him one morning about what has been going on, the whole thing, because I'd known him for a while, and because I knew he was divorced because of something similar. Well, that very night began this series of 2-6 hour long phone calls between the two of them. Hmmm...

And I'll be sure to email them all about wth the Plan B letter.

UN:

"Yes, it sounds like I'm just giving up."

No, it sounds like you're letting go.

-ol' 2long

JustJ: Well, to start with, I just deleted my long response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Basically, she wants to totally separate our finances, and I really wouldn't mind that either. But with the amount of joint expenses and debts we have, if I'm going to become solely responsible for them, I want to be protected from any further claims or accusations from her in the future.

So let her have her money, her cell phone, her credit cards, her student loans, and her own car insurance. I'll take care of everything else. I don't mind that, and in fact I welcome the idea. But in that case, I'm not going to have someone telling me that I also owe her some kind of support from my higher income, or owe her anything else for that matter.

If I'm going to be covering virtually all of the debt from our marriage, I want to be assured that I'll have virtually all of the assets as well. If she wants to run off with her money and play in her fantasy world for a while, I can't stop her. But I'll be damned if she's going to be taking my money and my property with her to do so.

So let her have her money, her cell phone, her credit cards, her student loans, and her own car insurance. I'll take care of everything else.

Yup, that's what I'm advocating for right now!

But in that case, I'm not going to have someone telling me that I also owe her some kind of support from my higher income, or owe her anything else for that matter.

Great! Don't. For right now, you DON'T NEED attorneys. If she files something like that, fine, you can use an attorney to fight her off. But right now, if you simply SEPARATE your finances and refuse to provide her with any of your income, and refuse to pay any of her debt, then are you in decent shape? If you are, then just do it! No need to wrangle with lawyers for that.

If I'm going to be covering virtually all of the debt from our marriage...

Nah. Just include the amount you expect her to pay for any joint bills that come to you in yoru Plan B letter. If she pays, great. If not, then when she's three months behind, turn it over to a collections agency or your lawyer.

I want to be assured that I'll have virtually all of the assets as well.

Uh, simple. Move the assets into accounts she can't touch. This isn't hard at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uncomfortably Numb:
"Hey. I just wanted you to know why this is happening. You know that friend your mom has from the Internet? Well, that's her new boyfriend, and when she went on that trip, he flew out to meet her so they could be together. When I let her know that wasn't okay with me, she decided to move out so that she wouldn't have to give up her boyfriend."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think this is a good start. while not your kids by birth, they are your family and they should know why their parents are hurting. you should also speak of your own role in the marriage that helped create the environment for the affair.

you should seek some alternative opinion on this, as others will certainly disagree.

Darn you people for making sense! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm keeping everything in mind. Right now, I have a call in to my laywer to confirm an appointment for Friday (got the day set, but n tthe time before losing connection), as well as getting some paperwork to fill out for starters.

As I said, I still don't want to file for divorce. But if anything, I need professional advice on where I stand.

Hmm...wait a minute...

You know JustJ, that made SO MUCH SENSE!

Why am I so set on acting first? I can think of lots of reasons, but why not just wait and see if I'll have to act later?

Dangit! I guess in the long run, it's not very significant amounts of money here or there. Give her what she's been asking for. Let her have her money and what not. I'll still be in "the same boat" either way, but it'll also demonstrate my willingness to work through this.

Hmmm...