I have been married over 25 years and after 20 plus years of my wife going through months and months of up and downs which included months of no intimacy, affection, etc... I decided to purposely start meeting other women... in all honesty to see IF there was something wrong with me or what!!!??? There was one thing I wasn't planning on that has happened... I fell in love with a widowed woman... she is wonderful, VERY affectionate, successful and actually a few years older than me. She has concluded there is absolutely nothing wrong with me. I know this is "Marriage Builders" but are there times when a divorce should be a path to be taken??? My wife and I talk well and get along fine, we are more like close business partners than 2 people in love and married. Any thoughts appreciated.

Most of us have had a rocky marriage at one point or another, that is how we ended up at this site. Your affair is not based on reality. There are no bills to pay, kids to take care of or a house to clean. All you are seeing is the game face that every man and woman puts forward when they are dating. All of the reality of living with someone will materialize should you choose to leave your wife for the other woman. You are living a lie right now and need to sit down with your wife and tell her how you feel. Dishonesty and disrespect is not the foundation that any relationship should be built upon. Your wife may leave you, that is her choice of course. Do you want to rebuild your marriage?

Have you read the articles on this site? Have you asked your wife to read the articles on this site? Yes, this is marriagebuilders. If you want a great marriage, you have come to the right place. Many people think that you shouldn't have to work on your marriage. That your partner should know you and know what you need. The problem is is that usually neither partner knows what the other partners' emotional needs are and they neglect them. It soon starts to feel as if you are no longer in love. But, love is not just about a feeling, but it is about commitment, security, and an obligation to each other. If you spent as much time fulfilling your wife's needs, you may find that she is the person you are looking for. If you stray, only unhappiness will follow you...

If you really came here for support than great. Read and learn. You should really get the books His Needs/Her Needs by Harley and DivorceBusting by Michelle Weirner Davis. These are some great books to help you rediscover what your marriage should and could be. Just my opinion....

Dear J

I knew there was nothing wrong with you before you went on your adventure and so did you. Do you really believe you caused your wifes "ups and downs". Did you sit around waiting for her to be intimate, affectionate or etc.? And so when she wasn't did that give you the go ahead to "try" someone else? did you ask your w "honey I think there is something wrong with me because you are not intimate, affectionate or etc. so whadaya say I go see if I can warm up some other honey?" "You have lots of ups and downs so you'll probably not care anyway....right?" what have you been doing the last 20 years? Could it have been something you did in the first 5 that turned w off? You see when we blame everyone becomes helpless. Now not only do you have the problems that exsisted before you now have destroyed the two things you had going for you...trust and honor.
H

It seems like your "new relationship" is totally based on lust. I also agree that you knew there was nothing wrong with you before you went out looking for another woman. My God, you have been married 25 years, I'm not saying that things should die, but things do change from when you first met. When things are new they are more exciting, that's all you are feeling now. Maybe instead of "looking for someone new" you should put that effort into talking with your wife. If you truly love your wife and want to stay married to her, sorry but I have to tell you you have just opened a big can of worms. Did you even stop and think of the pain it will cause your wife.?

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Cheryls ]</small>

Why yes, I did come here to learn and hopefully get some REAL answers and to understand the dilemma that my marriage has come to. I would hope to hear some similar stories and hear REAL LIVE evidence from people like me that have done something that REALLY worked and not just continued in a situation as mine has been in for so long. I am looking for answers and hoping this open forum may shed some light from REAL people and not just books.

To mfisher1967,

In ALL honesty... At this point in my life I am VERY numb about my marraige and rebuilding it??? I just don't know... Soooooo much has happened all these years and I just don't know if I can actually fall in love with her. If that were to happen we both would have to become totally different people and then we may not like the "new" people we became! Do you follow that reasoning?


>If you really came here for support than great. >Read and learn.

I forgot to ask you something. Does your ow know that you are married?

Something else-- Wouldn't it have been better for you and your wife to decide if your marriage could be saved before you did the infidelty thing??

To Cheryls,

Yes the the OW does know I am married and never planned to get involved, we started as just friends and then it developed to the state it is in now. Of course, I wanted more than just friends... just being honest. You may not understand but I have talked to my wife many, many times over the entire length of our marriage and I guess because we get along so well as good friends; from ALL appeareances we have one of the best marriages on earth! But hardly any intimacy or private affection. I know I look like the bad guy and all but I feel I have been VERY patient all these years. Did you understand MONTHS of NO intimacy??? and this was something that has basically been a normal function in my marriage. If I was making abnormal request or 10 times a day I could understand... but months and months??? I may be older but I'm not dead yet... as I have discovered.

You say you never planned on getting involved, but in fact weren't you. You said you went out to meet other women to see if there was something wrong with you. Isn't having sex with someone involved. Let me go ahead and answer this question for you now "Do I understand MONTHS of NO intimacy??? Yes I do, do you understand years of no intimacy, that's what it has been for me. I don't need another man to assure me that there is nothing wrong with me. I'm sorry if you feel I am jumping down your throat but I personally think you made a very bad decision. Just my opinion.

Joey, since you want actual people in your shoes, I'll share a bit of my story. I was only married for 4 years at the start of my A, but the situation was about the same, the feelings were about the same - in fact, if you chat with just about every WS (wayward spouse) on this site, they will say they felt just about the same way as you in one way or another. Why do you think we look for another person? Obviously we are unhappy in our M. It is missing pieces. We think that someone else will be better, we justify that what we are going through is unfair, that someone else will fix it.

I thought I would NEVER love my H again. That was even before the A. Like you, I decided to take matters into my own hands and started being more and more extra friendly with a male friend. He made me feel VERY alive, believe me - more than anyone I'd ever known, but guess what - good sex isn't everything. Yeah, it's good, and it's a great high at the time, but look at the rest of the story. This OW, if she's willing to sleep with a married man, what kind of virtues and values does she have. When the "honeymoon" wheres off with her, what will you have. How do you know that 3 years down the road the sex won't be dead with her, too?

I had to try and bring myself to reality, and believe me, it's HARD to do when you are in such a deep fog. You need to decide, right now, whether you want to stay married or not. NOT whether you want to be with the OW or not, because I almost guarantee that it will die in time. If you even slightly want to make your M work, you need to have NO CONTACT (NC) with the OW. I know this sounds harsh, but I came here in exactly your spot. I actually wanted justification as to why I was doomed and should just leave my H and get a D. Believe me - everyone said NC, NC, NC......... I thought they were insane, but I really wanted to give my M a chance - for our kids, not for my H. So I irritatingly, hatefully, with lots of tears, depression and anger, NCed the OM. It is almost 2 months later, my H was willing to forgive the A (some won't), and we are slowly rebuilding. It is only within the past few days that I have actually started feeling love towards my H again. It has been hard, we both have worked on it. The changes I made were like pulling teeth, I didn't really want to - but I can finally start seeing them working. I can start seeing that maybe, my H and I will have a much better relationship in the end.

Bottom line - you have to decide what you want, what you are willing to work for, and you have to decide now. If you want to work on the M, NC the OW immediately - that means NO phone, NO email, NO IM, NO CONTACT PERIOD! Then some good marriage counceling that works off of MB principals. If your W is in the dark, she needs to know what's been going on, too. She has the right to know and to choose if she wants to stay, also.

You CAN rebuild and regain love. I know it sounds impossible and you may not even want it at the moment, but it can happen if the right things are in place.

Good luck, keep posting, and letting us know where you are at. It takes time and a lot of hard core decisions right now to decide what is ultimately the most important decision for the rest of your life!

Felina

Please take Felinas advice and let your w know if she doesn't already. She definitely has a right to know now so she can decide what she wants to do, and you need to be the one to tell her. Don't let her find out months later on her own.

Oh man

Joey, go get yourself a fog horn, your lost in it bro.

M.

Joey: Please read carefully what Felina posted. I'd guarantee that she understands your feelings better than I do. The biggest single decision you have to make right now is if you want your M to survive.

It's easy to give up on things, hoping that something new and better will replace it. But the odds are that it'll just be new and different, with many problems of it's own.

It may seem right now that the easy road is to throw away your marriage and move on, and I sure can't say that it's not easier or even happier. But just be sure you are clear on what you and your family will be faced with if you choose that path.

Good luck. If you want to work on your marriage, you've come to a great place, so please keep posting.

Hey J

You did get real answers from real people who have been down both sides of the street you are traveling. I would venture a guess that most do not want to be here; they probably would be happier watching TV or playing some mindless video game.

I've been there guy. I decided to look for happiness some place else. I don't care how "bad" someones marriage is the BS doesn't deserve to be "cheated on". I am sure that those BS's out there would agree that there is nothing more devastating, outside the death of a loved one than to have a spouse have an A.

If you are unhappy in the marriage leave. You'll be doing your W a favor. I wouldn't try to marry the widow what kind of person would contribute to the destruction of another? 75% of all marriages that started with an A end in divorce...do you like to gamble?
Don't listen to me listen to Felina....scout around here some more you'll get real answers from real people but I bet you won't like what they say because you want someone to say you were justified for doing what you did. I wasn't and neither were you.
H

I have NO idea who you are but what you just wrote has been the best, most enlightening thing I have read or heard from anyone to date!!! Because that is EXACTLY how I feel with this woman I have been involved with. This has NOT been just an overnight fling... Yes, my wife knows... she felt funny, intuition or something and confronted me right before the Holidays. I was VERY apprehensive to tell her with ALL the emotions associated with the Holidays but I did tell her the truth. We are presently seeing Counselors and my main reason to see one was to attempt to conclude how to creatively end the marriage since I have done the BIG "A" and IF marrying this woman who I fell in love with would actually last? That was honestly my ONLY reasons for wanting counseling. See, I am constantly in thought about all this and don't want to begin a "D" then marriage only later to become another "D" statistic. Felina, that is why I began in this forum, to keep a justification for my actions because until I read your message today I had felt VERY justified in what I had done. Your story sounds almost totally identical to mine... it's almost scary!!! I read and reread your message over and over and can hardly believe what I have read! The personal experiences you shared has really touched me and has given me more food for thought than anything the Counselors have said yet. So you actually think this nice "business partner marriage" I'm in could turn into a true love affair, huh???

I quoted your message so others in our shoes may also read it...

Thank you for very much!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Felina:
<strong> Joey, since you want actual people in your shoes, I'll share a bit of my story. I was only married for 4 years at the start of my A, but the situation was about the same, the feelings were about the same - in fact, if you chat with just about every WS (wayward spouse) on this site, they will say they felt just about the same way as you in one way or another. Why do you think we look for another person? Obviously we are unhappy in our M. It is missing pieces. We think that someone else will be better, we justify that what we are going through is unfair, that someone else will fix it.

I thought I would NEVER love my H again. That was even before the A. Like you, I decided to take matters into my own hands and started being more and more extra friendly with a male friend. He made me feel VERY alive, believe me - more than anyone I'd ever known, but guess what - good sex isn't everything. Yeah, it's good, and it's a great high at the time, but look at the rest of the story. This OW, if she's willing to sleep with a married man, what kind of virtues and values does she have. When the "honeymoon" wheres off with her, what will you have. How do you know that 3 years down the road the sex won't be dead with her, too?

I had to try and bring myself to reality, and believe me, it's HARD to do when you are in such a deep fog. You need to decide, right now, whether you want to stay married or not. NOT whether you want to be with the OW or not, because I almost guarantee that it will die in time. If you even slightly want to make your M work, you need to have NO CONTACT (NC) with the OW. I know this sounds harsh, but I came here in exactly your spot. I actually wanted justification as to why I was doomed and should just leave my H and get a D. Believe me - everyone said NC, NC, NC......... I thought they were insane, but I really wanted to give my M a chance - for our kids, not for my H. So I irritatingly, hatefully, with lots of tears, depression and anger, NCed the OM. It is almost 2 months later, my H was willing to forgive the A (some won't), and we are slowly rebuilding. It is only within the past few days that I have actually started feeling love towards my H again. It has been hard, we both have worked on it. The changes I made were like pulling teeth, I didn't really want to - but I can finally start seeing them working. I can start seeing that maybe, my H and I will have a much better relationship in the end.

Bottom line - you have to decide what you want, what you are willing to work for, and you have to decide now. If you want to work on the M, NC the OW immediately - that means NO phone, NO email, NO IM, NO CONTACT PERIOD! Then some good marriage counceling that works off of MB principals. If your W is in the dark, she needs to know what's been going on, too. She has the right to know and to choose if she wants to stay, also.

You CAN rebuild and regain love. I know it sounds impossible and you may not even want it at the moment, but it can happen if the right things are in place.

Good luck, keep posting, and letting us know where you are at. It takes time and a lot of hard core decisions right now to decide what is ultimately the most important decision for the rest of your life!

Felina </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Good for you joey!!

There are some great people here, and no matter what side of the story the come from, or what their circumstances have been, they all seem quite adamant that marriage comes first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Best wishes to you during this difficult time. I still agree that it might not hurt to read some books, just because you may well see even more thoughts like that posted by Felina.

Justification or not, I think it's important to learn and understand the how and why of what has happened.

Joey, I am glad that my story spoke to you, and yes your "business partner relationship" can turn back into true love - but it will take a LOT of work. Not so much always hard work, but constant vigilance about the relationship.

I would still emphasise that the biggest decision for me that allowed the recovery to start was the NC. Like I said, it was the hardest thing I have done in my whole life, but I can finally say that I don't miss the OM. Yes, I still think about him and our time together, but it is not connected to depression, dispair, and grief, and it happens a lot less often as the time passes.

The other decision that was equally as tough was to REALLY work on the M - not just a token effort, but really, wholeheartedly sink my heart into being with my H. Being affectionate with him, not being irritated just by seeing him. Really, it has only been the past week that I have really been able to say that. So, as I say, it is a long haul. You will have ups and downs for sure, but the longer you stay at it, the more ups and less downs. I also encourage lots of reading. When I was really, really down, I would spend hours in the middle of the night reading this site, and everyone's stories. I got so much insight, and I started realizing that my position was not so unique (it was also the only way to keep me from emailing the OM).

It is interesting, I, also, always described my M as more like good business partners than H and W. (We do have a couple small businesses together, and are good with that - I just didn't feel any love any more.)

I think that once you make a firm decision as to the direction you want to go, it makes it easier. It is the hardest when you are still sitting on the fence trying to decide - then you can't put the effort into the M it needs, and you won't see the results.

Thank you, by the way, for your post - I was depressed tonight when I logged on. Had a great day with H, but have so many other stressors right now. When I read your post, and how mine affected you, it made my day - It is nice to see that some positive has come out of the horrible piece I took my M through.

Good luck, keep posting.

Felina

hmmmmmmmm... another interesting thing you said here... See... we have, I guess you could say, a VERY high-tech relationship. Even though we live physically close to each other, we chat, text via cell phones, email, paging and of course, talk via cell phones. I use my personal laptop at work which is connected via wireless to the internet and can email her all during the day from work while she is at work. Also, talking with her every morning on my way to work. These modern conveniences have made it quite simple to stay in VERY close contact with her and her with me. I get so excited to receive any electronic correspondence from her and she feels the exact same way when she gets mine. Then when I can slip away to see her in her home, we both about melt into each others arms!!! Have I mentioned the fact that she needs NO financial support from me in the least??? She is VERY successful and keeps up a beautiful home as well. Of course, my wife's first reaction was that I had found a young, sweet, good-looking babe. On the contrary... she is 4 years older than me and the fact that she doesn't need my monetary support attracts me even more to her. My wife's biggest argument has been how can you know this person, you are not around her enough. But the in-depth typing to each other via email and talks on the cell and then physically meeting multiple times during the week; I feel I know her quite well and I have also researched that the things she has told me about herself are totally true. I may not be the smartest frog on the stump but I am no dummy and not easily taken in by someone.

Although my marital issues have been going on about 20 years now and my adulterous ways a little over a year; I still am very intrigued of how similar your experience is to mine. If I do go through with the no contact as you have suggested, I can definitely understand how you could go into such despair as you said in your last message. I mean... ALL the above things I have stated are so apart of my life now and how I long to be with her and her with me. I do know that this forum/website will definitely have to fill in some major blank places in my life if I do as you suggested. At the moment this is VERY difficult to imagine not seeing her again because of ALL the things I see in her and just the way she is!!! I also "LIKE" this woman!!! This is NOT just a physical jump in the bed relationship but also a VERY intense emotional, heart relationship. Thanx again Felina.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Felina:
<strong> When I was really, really down, I would spend hours in the middle of the night reading this site, and everyone's stories. I got so much insight, and I started realizing that my position was not so unique (it was also the only way to keep me from emailing the OM).

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

J

The only part of F's message you seem to get is that you have the same feelings for the OT. You've finally met your "soulmate". Didn't you feel that way about your W 25 years ago? When did it change? You said plenty about your feelings what is your W feeling...do you even know? I don't think so. Since this OW is so great and you don't seem interested in having a marriage with your W why are you wasting your time here? Do you need permission to do what you want to do anyway? You found someone with absolutely no strings attached you can move right in and still keep all of your cash.
H