I'm launching onto this one cause I can't take any more....

lets break it down as I see it...

but are there times when a divorce should be a path to be taken???

absolutely...should it done by purposefully seeking out and enacting an affair...

no, that's pretty dam cruel thing to do...

So much irony in your posts...do think that anyone "here" is shocked you have fallen in love with someone else...
doubt it...

especially when you chose and actively sought that route...

while some find themselves in "situations" although always accountable..find themselves drawn to that one person...and walla...emotional/physical affair...even they claim not actively seeking one..

yet you actively sought to cheat on your wife...some home grown experiment to see if there is "something wrong with you"
problem is you have toiled with the exact sanctitity that makes us all human....the actions that define our beliefs...

but now you wrap it all up real pretty in a package and bow...applying all this false nobility to the relationship...

No one here doubts that you don't have feelings of love for the OW or her for you...

no big suprize you don't feel those things for your wife...the day you decided to actively seek outside your marriage is the day all your energy was taken from your wife and placed in other areas...

I did come here to learn and hopefully get some REAL answers and to understand the dilemma that my marriage has come to

the dilemma my marriage has come to...

marriages do not exist outside of the people that are married...marriages are exact products of our own creation...
marriages don't come to anything...the are made into something...fullfilling or lacking...

the problem with the love you and the other woman share..is that it is really just a shadow and reflection of what God's gift of love is meant to be...

And it is very very dangerous when we begin to change the definition of words to meet our situations....

it is not some fullfilling love...because of just of the logistics you two are not able to be there 1000% for eachother...
you thrive on bits and pieces here and there...still just reflections...

love is not meant to be about nurturing one another only when it doesn't interfere with our other family committments...

the emotions are the easy part....the attraction is the easy part...
easy easy easy...
it't the real work of committment that is hard...

and the other thing joey...no matter all the accoloades you apply to your OW...and the feelings and closeness you two share...
you can't run from the fact that all of it is bought at a price of actions that are downright
selfish
cruel
and damaging to innocent people...

and though you may verbalize believing in
honesty
and nobility
integrity
no matter the verbage...it is our actions that define us...

you are claiming gains and triumphs...at the higest price of others pain...

it is a lonely place to be..no matter how much you sing its praises...

and one more thing...if you are going to continue to post here...please knock off the visual romantizing of your get togethers....

Then when I can slip away to see her in her home, we both about melt into each others arms!!!

have a little compassion for the BS who don't need that...we get it joey...the two of you are sooo happy....
how about reading up on some of the posts on what the goes through a BS heart and mind ...

you and she are not islands....
you bring great pain to many...
ARK

I read your "launching" completely and I KNOW I am the BAD person. No one has to tell me that!!! I was NOT aware that I had said anything wrong in this open forum; I was simply stating how I felt and that this was not just a bedroom fling. That is all I was meaning by it.

I do not know ALL the acronyms that I have been seeing and can't even guess to what "BS" means??? Is there a list somewhere on this site that has these listed???


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> I'm launching onto this one cause I can't take any more....

have a little compassion for the BS who don't need that...we get it joey...the two of you are sooo happy....
how about reading up on some of the posts on what the goes through a BS heart and mind ...

you and she are not islands....
you bring great pain to many...
ARK </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You have spent two pages attempting to convince a whole forum of people that already understand it's not a bedroom fling..

you've spent two pages singing to the choir...

who are you trying to convince you or us ??

a bedroom fling would probably not neccessitate this website or forum....
and certainly not all the pain that is here....

two pages joey...all about her and you and your feelings...

where's the beef...
where's the part about your marriage..
your role in the demise of the marriage...
your wife's role in the demise of the marriage...

when did the whole thing drive off the road in to the ditch?
what's your plan to fix what is yours to fix...

two pages...with little or no depth....just all the trimmings of how great it is...

we are waiting...

WS wayward spouse
BS betrayed spouse
OP/OW/OM other person other woman other man
LOVE BUSTERS...LB...disrespectful judgements...

I never said you were bad...
I see no reflection of your own actions
just
two pages..

ark

Well... actually... I don't know who I am trying to convince!!!??? I go back and forth!!! I only discovered this website less than a week ago... Yes... "I", "Me", discovered it! Guess what that means??? I was looking for some answers but had not REALLY heard anything I hadn't heard before... until coming here. My wife didn't send me this link or anyone else. After reading several different articles on this website then reading many of the post in this forum, I decided to enter a message. I guess when I found this forum, I thought I would throw what had happened out there and be condemned by everyone and then move on. But... that didn't happen... well not like I had figured it would.

Last night after reading the post by Felina... I had a VERY long talk with my wife... which she is willing to stay married. She is also reading ALL the articles and helps on this site because I sent her the link to Marriage Builders to her computer. But I have to admit I feel completely torn at the moment, thinking of writing that "no contact letter" to this woman as suggested in "How Should Affairs End?". Soooooo... yes I am struggling on what to do and realize completely this is a selfish act on my part because throughout my entire marriage I have NEVER done anything like this before!!! My wife assures me "she will" change and things will NEVER be the same but she has said that line before. Of course, on the other hand... nothing in our entire marriage has ever come to this gargantuan point before. She is REALLY getting help here... a lot more than what our Counselors have been saying or suggesting. And... I suppose because I am now able to actually type to "REAL" people who are in this or have been in it or have recovered from an affair; has changed my a course of action that I was very close to a conclusion before I discovered this site.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> who are you trying to convince you or us ??


where's the beef...
where's the part about your marriage..
your role in the demise of the marriage...
your wife's role in the demise of the marriage...

when did the whole thing drive off the road in to the ditch?
what's your plan to fix what is yours to fix...

two pages...with little or no depth....just all the trimmings of how great it is...

we are waiting...

WS wayward spouse
BS betrayed spouse
OP/OW/OM other person other woman other man
LOVE BUSTERS...LB...disrespectful judgements...

I never said you were bad...
I see no reflection of your own actions
just
two pages..

ark </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Nice to meet you joey...finally...

soooo what's the story with your marriage...

children...ages??
why months and months of no intimacy...
where are you living...
are you still having this minute by minute contact with OW...


And the feeling of numbness and ambivalance normal....

ark

Today has REALLY been rough because although I did send her a wake up cell phone text call this morning ( as I do every work day of the week; I have not actually talked with, seen or chatted with her since Saturday. She just paged me a few seconds ago and wanted to know if I was okay. If she only knew... I am alone and want to call her soooo bad!!!

Don't do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Joey,
You have to listen to all these people they really know what they are saying. I am a WS and I am trying so hard to get my BS to let me back into his life. It may be to late for me, but it's not for you. You have to send that NC letter, you have to get her out of your life. It's says a lot about your wife that you have gone to her with all of this and she is wanting to committ to your marriage and work it out. I know how you feel. My H is the most spectacular person in the world. We lost all of the romance and all the communication, but it's something we could have worked on and got back. Instead I became completely selfish and focused only on how this OM was making me feel. I never considered my H's feelings, I never thought of what it would be like without him. I was only focusing on the moment, and that moment felt good. Well, D-day came and I realized how much I loved him. The thought of loosing him finally came into my mind. I realize now that if I would have stopped being so self-centered and thought about how my husband felt and if I would have been giving him everything I gave to the OM, I wouldn't be here right now. We may be in counseling, but it wouldn't be because of an A. Do you ever really talk to your wife about how she feels? If your not getting emotional needs met, then she probably isn't either. Are you giving your wife the same things you're giving this OW? You can't be with her in the picture. Stop text messaging her. Stop all contact with her and give your wife and your marriage 110%. If you don't you are going to be looking back on all of this just as I am. Believe me. Your wife is opening up to you and wants to make this M work, so work on it, without the OW in the picture at all. You can't have both.

PLEASE stop ALL contact with your OW. If the two of you are really so perfect for each other, your R should be able to survive being apart, right? Without the intense feelings of romance to throw you off, you will be able to be more objective about your marriage. Listen, it takes TWO to get the marriage as off track as many of ours were.

My H claims that we went three years with virtually no intimacy. Sorry, not true, but he FELT that way and PERCEIVED that to be true. Hard to argue perceptions. He was gone all the time, flirted with other women, had friendships with women that I considered inappropriate. I tried to talk to him about how that made me feel. It never changed anything. So did I initiate sex often? No. Did I feel really close and passionate about him? No. So yes, our sex life suffered. I wasn't happy either, but I didn't know what to do! But my H decided to go ahead and enter a fantasy relationship with OW and take our marriage even further into the ditch.

If you had to live in reality with your OW with NO contact from you W I think you would start to see things differently. If your W is reading here and starts to see how unwilling you are to give up contact with your OW you may be on the butt end of Plan B. Boy will that clear the fog and fast! Read more posts by WS and read some by BS so that you can more accutely feel the pain your W must be feeling right now, about the A, but most especially continued contact. Your continued contact will do more damage than you can possibly imagine. I know, my H continued almost 2 YEARS past d-day and that has been the hardest thing to get over. My H has a hard time sleeping now and living with what he did.

You sound like a good guy, and that point will come for you too. I wish you well. I hope your W posts here and gets support too. She needs it with you deep in the fog. Oh, BTW, read Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends and other books, read the posts here and realize it is NOT just you and Felina--there are thousands of you out there and the stories sure start to sound awfully familiar. So this isn't some heaven-sent thing--it is a human fallibility based on a marriage in which needs aren't being met, weakness on the part of the WS and opportunity.

Good luck.

NC, NC, NC ,NC!!!!!!!!!

That even means good morning text messages!

It's hard, but it's the only way!!! I cheated on the NC twice in the first two weeks without actaully talking to OM (added him back to IM list and saw he was on, called cell phone to hear his VM) and it was devastating. It set me back right to the beginning. You can't have both, so why even keep stretching it out. Go through the pain now - don't look back, and get on with recovering with your W. Then you can focus 150% on each other. You will also find that losing the sneaking and dishonesty is a HUGE relief!.

Also - if you keep even minimal contact, and your W finds out - she may not be willing the second time to keep giving you another chance, and it gets infinately more difficult to repair the damage. Just do it, and be done with it. Don't just listen to me - listen to all the others who've posted - I am not the affair goddess, I am just another statistic, just like all of us here - fortunately, I am on the good side of the statistic list. Listen to those who are not so fortunate to had a forgiving BS - I am sure that not a day goes by that they don't kick themselves for doing such a selfish thing, and not being able to turn back time.

Don't let yourself be one of those. Respect your W and yourself, and end the A for good!!

I sincerely wish you the best of luck, and when the tears are flowing because you are missing (in withdrawl) the OW, turn to your W for support! The most healing day for me was about a week after NC - I broke down and cried and cried and my H just held me until I was done. You will be surprised how healing it is to turn back towards your W for healing and support. Recommit! You can do it!

Felina

joey:

"I may not be the smartest frog on the stump but I am no dummy and not easily taken in by someone."

The only person you've been "taken in by" is yourself. This OW isn't your problem, YOU are. Your W isn't your problem, YOU are.

What kind of man do you want 2 be? Do you have kids? What kind of adults do you want THEM 2 be? What kind of examples are you setting for them?

What do things like integrity, honesty, empathy, mean 2 you?

You can't have your A AND these things at the same time.

also, minor correction: It's more like 95% of M's born of As end up in DV within 5 years.

Good luck.
-ol' 2long

Joey,

Your wife is going through more pain and anguish than you can even imagine. I am a betrayed spouse. My wife left me for another man. It is the worst kind of feeling you could ever have. If you don't feel guilty about putting your wife through this--well, well, I don't know... I know everyone talks about the fog, but if you are not feeling guilty for what you've done to your wife, you have to be in some serious fog! Lets pretend you have a daughter and a drunk driver killed her. Can you imagine that kind of pain? Well, that is what your wife is going through. Believe me, I know...

I don't know what you are looking for here, but if you want real answers, then you came to the right place. If you came to this site on your own like you said and were looking for answers, then go out today and get the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. There is a story in that book that is very common to so many affairs. You will probably think that the author was writing about you. Its the same story everywhere on this site. Spouse gets tired of marriage and doesn't mean to find someone else, but it just happens. You find your soulmate and nothing else matters after that. You move out and live with your soulmate but begin to feel depressed but you don't know why. Eventually, you figure out, wow, I'm right back where I started at but now I don't have a marriage, a family, a great house, or the security of a spouse that you know would never cheat on you. You begin to have doubts now because things just ain't so great. Pretty soon you are looking for something new or worse, she is looking for something new. YOU LOSE!!!! Get the book, read it, believe it, go no contact and apologize to your wife and be the man she deserves... Just my opinion......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the fact that she doesn't need my monetary support attracts me even more to her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? Because your wife doesn't have some high paying job, perhaps because she took time to raise your kids, assuming you have them? Because you are tired of not having as much disposable income as you would like? It's all about money - it so often all about money -whether it is a man divorcing his wife after a long term marriage, or whether it is someone like Charles Stuart murdering his spouse and unborn baby because it would (had he not be found out) benefited him financially.

Would you be proud to admit it if she offered you $100,000 to marry her? How is what you said any different? If she were to suddenly be diagnosed with cancer and need your financial support, would that reduce her attractiveness to you?

If I were seeing someone and I found out that my wealth, had I any, played a role in his attraction, I would be out of there before he could say Fort Knox. That is just one small, very small, step above prostitution.

Honestly... you sure could have a point there!!! I can't disagree with you at all... I am a man that does look at statistics and saw this one recently as I have been trying to decide what course of action I should take. Thanx for your comment... I do appreciate it... I do have to admit what you guys are calling this is truly a "FOG".

http://www.ivillage.com/relationshi...1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=2


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> joey:


The only person you've been "taken in by" is yourself. This OW isn't your problem, YOU are. Your W isn't your problem, YOU are.



also, minor correction: It's more like 95% of M's born of As end up in DV within 5 years.

Good luck.
-ol' 2long </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

NOOOOOOOO Nellie... ALL I was meaning is that this woman I have been seeing is VERY successful and isn't just out there looking for a man that has money. I simply admire her for what she has been through and has accomplished... That's ALL I meant... She has been a widow for many years and her husband's death came VERY unexpected.

I do follow the other parts of your correction to me because my wife did stay home and raised our children as you said. A benefit I didn't have growing up.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong> perhaps because she took time to raise your kids, assuming you have them? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Yep... I guess I am in a "FOG"... at least that is what everyone on here keeps telling me!!! LOL!!! I do know I am reading every thing being said here and much of what is being said does make sense... I'm still at the listening, thinking, wanting to hear more stage, I guess... I am still living at home and the BIG "A" is only known by my wife, myself, the OW and one other person. In other words I haven't inclined to ostentation. I do believe as you have said... I have come to a VERY useful website and have received more here in this forum than I have the past month and a half!!! Thanx for the VERY awakening comment at the end of your message... I have to admit that has crossed my mind before...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost-without-her:
<strong> Joey,

I don't know what you are looking for here, but if you want real answers, then you came to the right place.

You find your soulmate and nothing else matters after that. You move out and live with your soulmate but begin to feel depressed but you don't know why. Eventually, you figure out, wow, I'm right back where I started at but now I don't have a marriage, a family, a great house, or the security of a spouse that you know would never cheat on you. You begin to have doubts now because things just ain't so great. Pretty soon you are looking for something new or worse, she is looking for something new. YOU LOSE!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Infidelity is absolutely one of the most painful things a husband/wife can go through in a marriage. It is one of the most thoughtless, selfish things you could have ever done. How would you feel if she had of done it to you?????

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Cheryls ]</small>

Joey,

I was the WS and I know exactly where you are. I know what it feels like to be emotionally detached from a spouse and I know the euphoria that a new love can cause. Let me have a little talk with you.

You really need to decide what you want. If you are going to try to repair your marriage, you will need to let this OW go. It will probably be one of the hardest things that you have ever done, but there is no alternative. There is little about these situations that are fair, but living at home with your wife and continuing contact with the OW certainly isn't one of them.

If you can't/won't give up the OW then separate from your wife and pursue this other relationship. You may gain some perspective by not being in contact with your wife and relying on this woman to fulfill all your needs. You may find that this OW is just like everyone else, human. You may begin to put away the fantasy that she is perfect for you. You may even find that you miss your wife; 20+ years of companionship is hard to just walk away from. Who on earth knows you better than your wife, the woman who has shared so much of her life with you and mothered your children?

I just hope that if/when you decide that you miss your wife she will still be there wanting you back. Many people can survive an affair, even one that is as emotionally confused as yours (or mine for that matter). Very few have the strength to recover from the continued deception of continuing the affair and having their face rubbed in it.

I just isn't polite (to put in mildly)to keep living with your wife and continuing this affair. Go or stay . . . you can't have both.

I decided what I had to do when I thought about what I would tell my kids. "I divorced your mother because I found this woman that was a tremndous f@#k and she made me feel wonderful?" Somehow it just seemed a little shallow to me when I put it that way.

I wish you the best. This situation is going to really suck for all involved.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Well, with all the years of what has happened, actually, I wish she had done it first!!! Then I would REALLY feel okay for my actions!!! BUT I know what you're saying...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cheryls:
<strong> How would you feel if she had of done it to you????? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

That is another VERY important point that I do think about ALL the time; what to tell ALL the family... her side, my side and our children, of course, they are older.

Sometimes I feel if my wife would have simply listened to me when I was waving these red flags ALL these years then I wouldn't be here now!!! BUT that is not the case... and I guess I feel now she wants to make ALL these radical changes and although I do view that as a VERY wonderful, unselfish, kind, jester on her part... I personally feel like I am on a galloping horse that is at full speed and had a direction to where I was going and now all of a sudden, I am pulling back hard on the reins and don't want to because of ALL that has happened behind me and I don't want to go back to that. Again, I must say, she has said in the past that she would change and did for a time only to go into her rut again. This cycle has been going on for so, so very long. So many resentful, angry, hurts and feeling inside me towards her for all these years.

So are you back with your wife now? If so, how long and how is it working out?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Comfortably Numb:
<strong> Joey,

I was the WS and I know exactly where you are.

Go or stay . . . you can't have both.

I decided what I had to do when I thought about what I would tell my kids. "I divorced your mother because I found this woman that was a tremndous f@#k and she made me feel wonderful?" Somehow it just seemed a little shallow to me when I put it that way.

I wish you the best. This situation is going to really suck for all involved. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: joey1960 ]</small>