Thanks Felina

Yes, there has to be some root cause as to why someone who never fathomed they would ever engage in an affair was caught so off guard and was so taken by someone, someone who was practically a total stranger.

I am going to look into some IC as my H has no interest in MC.

Thanks guys...off to take kiddies to school

S.

Sally2003: hey, this is the first time I have responded to a WW.I can identify with your story. I have 4 kids. Our relationship went through the waves of childbirth, brestfeeding, and then toddlers. I am the BS and can feel our pain in different ways. Are you sure of your salvation? Pray for yourself and your spouse. God will answer prayers and show you the way to deal with the pain and suffering. We all have our part in this drama.I know the biblical principles BUT listened to myself and not God. I could always come back with "Yea, but...". We all have made our mistakes and can assign blame to each other. God tells us not to do that. Read the book "SAA" and go to counseling. Be careful who you listen to when taking their advice. Be sure they have been through it themselves and are christian. Many MC try to "walk the walk" but that is just education. Wisedom comes from God and he will direct you and reveal all things to you. Even about ourselves that are difficult for us to see. I will pray for you and your spouse. Peace

Toomuchcoffeeman: In response to Sally2003: Alluding to the 'mid-life' crisis thing. We know she is too young. That is a cover story for having A's. She was lacking something vital in her relationship and went looking for it outside of marriage. She probably asked and was either denied or rejected. Let's not beat her up for that. She is doing a good job of attacking herself without any of our help.She is trying to put the pieces back together and asking questions and for answers is the first step. It will be a long road. We should leave the analysis to those who have that 'calling' and are an instrument of God. Like the Harley's. They are restating the biblical principles God gave us. Peace.

Hi

Thank you usual supsects...although I am not religous, I genuinely appreciate your advice.

I am trying...if I didnt care about my life my M and my H, I'd be emailing OM right now and not trying NOT to. I wouldnt be sitting here trying to figure out what is/was wrong with me? What happened to the old me? Why did this happen and WHY DID IT MAKE ME FEEL so good, like I havent felt in so long.

I dont really understand Mid life Crisis' so I suppose I cannot comment on it. But marriage, shift work, stressful nursing job, 3 kids had to have come to gether to play some sort of part as to why I did this.

There was no abuse as a child etc...other then coming from a broken home...I dunno...I will try to figure it all out so I dont go seeking this (not that I was looking for this the first time) sort of thing again.

Thanks

S.

Can someone tell me what IC is like first time? What to expect?

The first time, they usually do a profile, have you fill out a ton of paperwork, and just talk to you to get the basic story and what you think your issues are. They might give you a few things to work on, think about, etc. but that's about all you can do in the first hour. The second session and beyond, you can really start getting into looking at roots, causes, possible solutions. They will probably recomend some books. A lot of the stuff I figured out so far, just came from me talking about a lot of stuff I hadn't talked about, or had just talked to friends about. He helped me pull everything together and look at it differently.

If you aren't comfortable with a counselor in the first session or two, find a different one - they all have different takes on things. Also, it's good to know the background and basic beliefs before you go, so you don't get one that is totally off what you believe - you sound pretty liberal, let that be reflected in the counselor you choose.

Good luck

Felina

Sally

I've been thinking for the past few day on your one post. The one that you fulfilled one of your H's fantasys. I think that might have helped set up the atmostphere for the A. I might be wrong, but that is JMHO. I do have a couple of questions, how did fulfilling that fantasy make you feel? And this is how you felt before or after the act. Could it have been something that subconsously you thought about? It amongst other things could have left you more vulnerable for the A. Just a thought.

Remember I have a Christian view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mind you I have dark fantasys sometimes, but to actually do them would be more damaging then what you would ever gain.

<small>[ January 22, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Silverthorn ]</small>

Silver;

This was a fantasy my H had talked aboutmany ties...however, I never ever really considered doing. Then one day, after a few weeks of assuring me it woudl be "cool", wtih some wine in tow, it happened. I felt odd after but seeing as the girl was a very good friend and we talked about it, it was ok. i could take it or leave it. My H actaully left as it was happening--we got more into it then he ever thought, it bothered him. That thought that someone else was fufilling me sexually. Even though it was his idea.

Perhaps that did open me up tot he A? The night I went out and subsequently met OM, Inever thoguht in my head anything about being with another man, ever. So I really dont know.

I think it was just one of those situations where this man (and I DO like men, big strong men who make me feel special) made me feel so wonderful about me. Built me up...added to that the physical attraction on both sides, it happened.

THanks Felina too for your words...today for some reason, my heart is aching for OM....wondering if he thinks about me at....now I feel like I need him to tellme that even though he dumped me, Im still good...pathetic as that sounds. I placed so much worth into how he thought about me.

S.

Sally, this message is in regards to your above post and your previous post;

Quote from Sally:
"We have done everything and more...and brace yourselves here, the year before my affair I even was with another woman.My husband's ultimate fantasy, with my husband there, not paticipating though."

You state this so nonchalantly as if this occurs every day in marriages.
My God, Sally girl, you had sex with another woman!
Where is your conscience?

It is scary, your attitude!
Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ January 23, 2004, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

I don't beleive that beating Sally over her head for what we collectively agree was a bad choice (giving in to her H's fantasy of seeing her with another woman) is helpful to her. Lord knows all of us have made some pretty boneheaded choices in our lifetime (yours truly feels he's had more than his fair share in his lifetime <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Sally I can understand your goal to make yourself into a more desirable looking woman. Feeling good about oneself and looks is very important to both women AND men. BUT it can become pathological when its sole purpose is to have other members of the opposite sex become attracted to you like flies to honey. As I advice you in an earlier post, you may want to consider availing yourself of the services of an IC(individual counselor) to find out if your desire is normal or pathological. And lastly, liposuction is still surgery and like all surgery it carries a risk that can even lead to death if complications developed from the procedure, so if you are resolute in your decision to have it please understand the risks it entails.

BT, I am sure it happens more than you will admit - and not everyone has the same standards, thoughts about same sex relationships. I have several friends that have experimented with this, even in the bounds of being married. I would have myself if H was open to it, but he wasn't. Some of my best friends are lesbians. We all have differences in sexuality - I think that asking Sally where her conscience was for trying once is a bit narrow minded. JMHO. TBO, I think the girl/girl thing was much better than the A because H & Sally were being honest with each other as opposed to the lie of the A.

Felina

Sorry Sally {{{{{Sally}}}}}

I seem to open up a can of worms there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I was just wondering about the overall effect. Which I think there is one. It seems to me the thoughts that your H wasn't satisfied with just you would work on you in the back of your mind. Also you said your H left and was disturbed. Did he withdraw from you for a while afterwards? I guess he found out it wasn't "cool". I was just thinking that subcounsously you might have had some anger and resentment about the situation.

Myself I won't beat you up over that. I've made enough bad choices in my life, so how could I possibly beat someone else up over theirs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
TMCM is right about everyone making bad choices, and about any surgery. My thoughts on that one would be to check out the people doing the surgery. Check to make sure they are reputable. I had an Uncle die due to complications from surgery. Make sure you choose the best.

Felina,
You are correct that everyone has a different opinion. But, I don't think that Sally and her H were being honest with each other. He pushed and she finally gave in. He said it would be ok, but ended up disturbed. I think that even if every thing was thought of and open, and both S's agree, that there is a price to pay, that it helps to break down the foundation of a M. I think thats what it all boils down to, if it in any possible way could harm the M, then it shouldn't be done. {{{{{Felina}}}}}

Oh well, just a thought, please everyone don't take offense at anything that I said, or argue about it. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Let all go for a great day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BT and eveyone ...thanks for your input.

Felina, you are correct, this "thing" is very common now a days.....some people are not open to it, andthats ok. i actually thought that us deciding to do this (it happened 3 times btw) together was a good sign that it took a solid foundation to be able to allow that to occur without feelings of jealousy or resentment. The initial encounter was the one where H took off...later, after talking at length about it, he was alright.

There are some very religous people and Christian people that do not view this sort of thing as acceptable, and thats ok, everyone is entitled to their views.

To me, it made me feel as if that happened, my H would think that I was awesome, and great, and never need to stray. I actually thougth things were very OK in teh sex department with us after this.

So...I dont know why the A happened. I TRULY believe that I need a mans, a big strong attractive man (sorry if this sounds ridiculous) to think I am wonderful, to make me feel desired and important. Not sexually, just as a person...again, forgive me if I sound pathetic, just trying to identify the root cause here by expressign how I feel.

Thanks,
Sally.

Sally,
I am a Christian, so I don't know if my comments will be anything like how you might have felt, but here goes:

If my husband asked me to do something like this, I would probably question his love for me for sure. I have found that many of us WW have that in common. We questioned our husbands love for us. In fact, the OM once commented "I don't think he cares what you do."

I now know that was not true, but it was part of thinking I allowed myself to justify the A. Understand that I'm not saying it caused the A, but it (husbands indifference) certainly didn't help.
Diane

Silver and Diane, I appreciate that you share your views without being judgemental. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do agree that if anything might be harmful to the M it should be avoided, but sometimes, we don't know these things until after the fact. (and sometimes we think things might be bad, but we shove those thoughts away and do it anyway - human nature I suppose).

Felina

Felina,

That is quite true,

Sally,

Your right about a Christian view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just remember a Christian is someone that is forgiven, not perfect. Nor does being saved make you perfect. It is better to show someone's Christ's love then to judge them. Poe and I are both Christians, but Poe had an A, and I looked at pornography. Again not perfect, Forgiven.

There are many things that effect the M. I happen to think that your H's watching Porn is just another symptom of the problems with the M. Amazing how it does degrade one's thinking. Speaking from experience. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

(Again, human nature getting in the way.)

Both of you are going to have to take a long hard look at many things that effected the M. Even if it seemed at the time that it wasn't a problem.

It is amazing what can effect both people in a M. Even subcounsously.

Silver

My 2 cents

RE: "other activities"

Somehow I thought I could have an A and it wouldn't affect my marriage or the relationship I had with my W. As though there were areas of me I could keep seperate from the rest of me. The OW spoke of her M as though it wasn't affected by the affair but did say that if her H found out "he wouldn't give her a chance" but if he were to have an A she "could forgive him". So we were so all "adult" and so "opened minded" that it nearly killed me and my W. I saw the tears OW had when the A ended. How could this not affect her and her relationship with her H? Seeing her broken like that how could it not affect me and in turn how I relate to my W. Some how we think we can do these risky behaviors and come through them unscathed. If we were not human then maybe this is true. But we are living, breathing, emotional beings with a soul and we "play" with our inner workings as though they are immune from the truama we some times inflict upon ourselves and others.
H

Hiker, I thought the same thing about my A. I was so strong that of course I could keep the two separate! How wrong I was! Also - we (OM and I) thought that even though we lived across the driveway from each other, we could "schedule" one PA meeting for a day, be done with it and we would move on. Well, that was about the stupidest fallacy in the universe! By the time I was done with the 2 month ordeal, and we had to separate, it was the hardest thing I've done in my life.

I sure am so much more careful not to even look at another guy the wrong way now. From the first time I saw OM, I was flirting with danger - I knew it, but I thought I could handle it - I wanted to see how far I could go without breaking and without getting caught. I had no idea of the emotional ramifications of it all!!!!!

To bad some of us have to live life and learn the hard way - I mean if we just listened that affairs are wrong, and not a good idea, we all would have been OK.

Liza: aka Felina