ok, yada yada yada re the language, and such...but I too have read several studies that reveal large numbers of children are being raised by fathers who think they are theirs, but are not. Not 50% but 25-30%...this just factual information, nothing to argue about...whether that says something negative about women I dunno, but it is a very interesting fact.....So why do you suppose so many women are cuckolding their husbands? What does that say about our species and our evolved procreative strategies? Also, this is not about "bad" women, this is about out species, it is what we do, and we do it for good reason...survival. Males are full partners in the behavior. Now that we have DNA testing, the strategy is fraught with risk, the cuckolding woman can now be (and often now is) outed. But it is a gross injustice to suggest women (whether they cuckold or not) are somehow evil, evolved behavior, is well.....just evolved behavior.

solon:

It's amazing just how much mileage can be gotten out of such nonsense! As you said later, not in your original post, the quote was from a respondent 2 the article. The respondent is a pitiful twit:

"Women cheat because they are naturally inclined to be kniving sluts."

what is a "kniving slut?" How about a "spooning," "forking," or "ladeling" slut?

"(poor schmuck)"

I'd rather be a "poor schmuck" than a pitiful twit.

"Usually this occurs without any knowledge on the man's part."

Usually, affairs "occur" without the BS's knowledge. At least at first. But because so many people choose 2 rebuild after an A, it shows that most people are a few million years further evolved than the pitiful twit that wrote this.

"Women are simply treacherous and not worth committing to, and this explains the rising decline in successful marriage. I hope this clears a few things up for everyone. "

Yes, it's now clear that the respondent truly IS the pitiful twit that I inferred him 2 be.

Solon, your W is being unfaithful 2 you. She is also being unfaithful 2 her own integrity and morality. So is the OM, whether he's M'd 2 anyone or not.

-2long

I have also heard this story before. It is a built in "instinct" designed to ensure survival of the species and that the strongest survive and all that type of nature stuff. It happens in the animal kingdom all the time (only the alpha male lion mates with the lionesses until he is de-throned) and since humans are the highest form of animal I don't have a hard time believing something like this.

Here's a couple of links I found, there are probably others:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/376321.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2369357.stm

<small>[ January 16, 2004, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: Layer3 ]</small>

It is not the study that I find offensive, nor its conclusions. It is the venomous words used to attack all women. In addition, the post is apparently a copy of someone's response who is not even from this forum.

If the discussion is meant to revolve around a study, the poster should have included the facts of the study, not someone's hateful opinion of all women. I would feel exactly the same if similar language was used to describe all men. As for the warning, (the title of the post?), it's more like a teaser to ensure that a lot of people will read it.

Again, this is not helpful to those of us are new and come to the boards to gain insight into our own marriages, learn MB principles, help others, or find solace.
Shellybird

Wow! What a response!

(how can I put this)

As I stated, this was a response to an article published about the infidelity of women. As a husband/father who is living (as most of you all are) through this I spend HOURS reading and researching this very same thing. I came across this article and the RESPONSE to the article and posted it for a reason. The reason was not to offend. The reason was not to belittle women and to make women think I think like this. If that was the case, I would have written myself.

It was interesting and I posted it to share the subject and how it affected one man. Obviously, the man who wrote this has been affected like a lot of the men here. But unlike the men here, he has turned sour. I don't know about other men, but often times I am tempted to have this very same reaction. Words cannot EXPRESS the pain I am going through. And even when I get a grip on my own pain, I suffer from seeing my children suffer from their mother's affair. Reading this man's response, I feel what he most likely felt. Do I agree? No! But it was a response to infidelity and correct me if I am wrong, but that is the topic of this board. And it was on a topic that is valid. Go to your computer and do a search on this topic. Be amazed. Others have read or heard about the same thing. A woman cannot raise a child not knowing if it is hers or not. If she had it, she knows it hers. But for a man, it is different. Read between the lines of the response to the article. Catch the feeling. Think about the situation. Is it possible? 50% of the men in the study raising children that is not theirs. Can it be me? Food for thought. And it is a shame that, given the situations that most of us are in, that one could get offended by this. After what I have been through, it will take MUCH more than a posting to offend me. What?!?! My wife is sleeping with another man! What's more offensive than that?

One thing this whole ordeal (my wife's affair) has done for me, it has made me MUCH more patient with other people and other situations. I don't get angry over things I used to get angry over. I don't take offense about things I used to take offense over. I am amazed, amazed by this. But, I am reading between the lines.

thanks for including the links, I should have done this.

As far it being turned around. I can honestly say, that if this article, this posting was listed and a woman spoke out on men and her feelings of men (and as I man, I've heard it all) I would not take offense. Here is a man speaking of the facts of a study and stating how disgusted he is with it. He is not simply bashing women (though he is bashing), but he is stating a claim based on a study. I had NO idea that this was so prominent. It came as shocking to me that there were so many women having children by men who were not their husband. It was shocking! And his response was the only response that spoke directly to the facts of the study (though he was crude, but even in his crudeness he spoke through the pain of having experienced infidelity). Again, that does not make it right. I would not share this with the people in my building just randomly. I could ONLY share with people, men, who is going through an affair.

Solon if you have posted that this 'study' was one man's view of female infidelity then your thread would not have had the same response that it has. No serious and objective researcher would use those derogatory terms to express his findings no matter how unflattering it would be for the female half of the human population. Besides, we males are far from being squeaky clean when it comes to infidelity.

A few weeks back, CNN had a one hour long show on infidelity and in it, one pair of researchers who specialized in animal behavior, expressed their conclusions that the only faithful animal on this planet was a tapeworm that inhabits the intestine of a fish. Remember that animals don't have a choice when it comes to their behavior because they are guided by their genetic programming BUT we humans do.

TMCM, with all due respect, I did open by stating that. Looking back now, I see I omitted a word, but I specifically said that "look what one said".

Hey people
The first post does NOT quote any study/article. The text that Solon is simply a reply in an internet forum, just as we are writing here.

http://www.suite101.com/print_message.cfm/6096/63847/871415

And as Solon posted "this person did not write the article; this was a response to the article. He was just giving his take on the study."

Below seems to be the article which the 1st post is in relpy to.

http://www.cheatingadults4sex.com/whywomencheat.html
Why Women Cheat

There is a myth out there that women cheat simply because they are not being emotionally taken care of by their partners. While this may be true in some cases, it is certainly not true in all cases and may not even be true in most cases.
Women, as we pointed out before, are programmed to get pregnant by the best possible sperm donor and find the man most likely to stay around and help them take care of the children. This is not necessarily going to be the same man. The traits nature prefers in men - strength, independence and power, do not necessarily belong to men who are going to be willing to stick around and settle with one woman. Men who are willing to stick around with one woman often do so because they do not think they can easily get another female.
This is backed up biologically. Tests have shown that during ovulation, when women are most likely to get pregnant, women are most attracted to testosterone filled he-men. Yet, during other phases of their cycle, they are more attracted to sensitive caring men. The point being that nature wants them to get knocked up by a tough guy who won't stick around and then settle down with a sensitive wimp who will take care of them.
A recent study of divorced couples who had not made any claims of infidelity backs this up. DNA tests were done on the children of these couples and in more than 50 percent of the cases, the woman's husband did not father the children. The men had no clue.
Women are also just as sexual as men and often are not satisfied by their partners. They may marry a guy with a small [censored] because he runs the local bank and can give them a big house, but they are unlikely to spend the rest of their life denying themselves the fulfilment of a real man. Therefore, when hubby is a way, the big dicked gardener suddenly becomes very attractive.
Many women are also very turned on by risk and often report that when cheating their orgasms are much stronger because the sex is naughty and more fun than vanilla married sex.

Solon,
I'm not at all offended by the article or the study of children of divorced parents.

There's a saying I've heard: "Motherhood is a matter of fact; fatherhood is a matter of opinion." With DNA testing, that opinion can be fact.

One VERY BIG difference between the affair of a woman and the affair of a man is that the male BS risks raising a child who is not his own. My WH told me of a TV show he saw recently in which a wife told her husband that their 11 year old son may not be his. He had no idea that his wife had been unfaithful.

As for me, I am glad that Sophia has not had a child since she met Tom. BUT I know that all our children are ours. Only one, the youngest, takes after his side of the family. And part of the reason why I am hopeful about our M is that she is so dear to me -- she reminds me so much of what drew me to Tom in the first place.

Can you imagine the devastation that a man has in realizing that a child whom he is raising, whom he cares so much about, is a lifelong reminder of his wife's infidelitity? I'm sorry, but I think nothing, and I mean nothing, compares with the pain that that man would experience -- not catching the lovers together in bed, not having the lovers care for the childreen, nothing. These other pains are in the present and can fade in the future. The pain of raising a child who is the child of a wife's lover is lifelong.

And so, in the end, I think that a man experiences a wife's infidelity much more deeply than a woman does if the woman is of childbearing age.

I recall seeing the news commentary at one point. I do not think it is offensive at all. Both men and women have the potential to fall into an A, but why is there an increase in women falling into extramarital affairs? Is it because more opportunities, a change in society's views on sexuality, glamorization of adultery by the media, are spouses now spending more time at work or work activities than before, or all of the above? Physiologically, it is easier for women to deceive their H than for men to do it. A man who has just come from an encounter with OW, may not be able to perform whereas the opposite scenario is not true. In any event, gender should not influence depth of character, honor, sensitivity, and respect for a parner in marriage.

Thank you, Chris and thank you, Broken Arm!

Lifesavers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm not trying to give credibility to the author of the subject here, but... I watched a documentary that said the same thing about the human female. This particular author's delivery is outright horrible, his bias is obvious. But,... the subject holds merit when you look deep. It makes sense.

Personally... I'd rather not see a study done on men lol.

M.

I agree, Why Me, with your last statement.

As for me, I think it was easier for my wife to have an A, because I thought it not likely for her to have one. Harley in his book, His Needs, Her Needs, says we should always expect (I'm not sure is the right word), our wives or spouses rather would cheat. Because if we do not, that's when we start taking them for granted. I did not think a woman would do what I know a man is capable of doing so I let my guards down.

Know I may be off the wall on this one, but I'm more inclined to question the validity of DNA testing than that 25-30% of babies are cuckoo eggs laid in the nest of an unsuspecting male.

Again, I know too many women and their stories, and I know too many babies who look like their apparent dads, etc. I'd like to know where these studies are done, with whom, etc. Especially today, abortion is too easy an option for women to risk this kind of nonsense over twenty years.

I know of only one case personally where this happened -- a male friend of mine, seduced at 15, who was the father of the kid across the street.

Just more of that liberal gobbly goop that spouts that we're not responsible for our own behavior, it's in our genetic makeup. Gag!

Blame someone else for bad behavior and if there's noone immediately available, God will do.

Solon I apologized if my posts seemed harsh or extremely critical to you.

The fact is that human beings, unlike animals, are not biological automatons and can override their biological tendencies IF they consciously choose to do so. Attraction to other members of the opposite sex other than our spouses is NOT in and of itself a bad thing. It is what we choose to do with that attraction that can be either be good or bad. What the article states is nothing new and it has already been presented in other articles on print and on tv, the problem is when people read it and take it as the gospel truth.

This is as much bunk as the men are "biologically wired" bunk.

And if the statement, "This has contributed to the evolution of mankind (only the best males have a chance to reproduce)" is true, how does one explain the likes of, oh never mind... not going to go there...

I have not read all the responses to this, but what I'd like to know is more about the "study" performed. What was the sample size? Was the group large enough to be indicative of the entire population? What controls were placed on the study? You could probably make an experiment draw any conclusions you like by manipulating the variables...

pure crap..