I'm new to this board as of today. I'm really struggling with negative thoughts and feeling like my life is over. I read so many others going through the same, but is there really hope? Are there success stories?

I've been married for 19 years (dated him from the time I was 15) and have 2 teenage children by the man I thought I would spend the rest of my life with. Granted our marriage has had it's share of difficulties, and he did have an A 12 years ago after a very brief one on my part. We were past all that and I thought even though we were more or less existing these last couple years due to stressful jobs and a daughter with behavior problems, that through thick and then he'd always be there. I never worried.

Then I found out last fall that some 25 yr-old was interested in him and he found it "intriguing". I saw the red flags, but couldn't do anything about it.

Fast forward to now: He's deeply involved in a PA with this woman. He spends almost all his free time at a house she shares with her roommate. We rarely see each other. It's tense when we do because I've begged, pleaded, cried, thrown tantrums, tried to tell him what he should do, called repeatedly to his cell phone, and driven past her house over and over just to see if he was there--basically everything I'm not supposed to do. Lately (last couple weeks) I've tried to back of but have had a couple backslides. I'm thin to begin with and have lost 15lb because I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can barely go to work. I'm a lousy parent.

I don't see what he sees in her. She has no job, no car, no money, she's separated but not yet divorced from an abusive alcoholic, has a 1yr old daughter, an 8 yr-old daughter whose grandfather has custody, and we just found out has a 9-yr old son who's father has him and she has no contact whatsoever. She has bisexual relations with her best friend--my husband has witnessed some of it at a dance club--said he was so repulsed all he could do was look out the window and drink a lot(husband is a recovering alcoholic who is now back off the wagon since the start of the A). He complains about having to play taxi to her and her kids, makes no bones about not wanting to deal with years of raising kids, etc.

He is totally mentally screwed up. He can't sleep. He doesn't make sense when he talks. He lies all the time. He tells me everything in him is telling him that this is leading only to no good, but in his words "I can't give you up, but I can't give her up either."

He wants time to sort things out. He's not sure if he maybe just wants to move out on his own. All I can think is that I'm going to lose him to this woman and his life is going to be ruined, and I love him so much. It is killing me. I dwell on it. I'm on antidepressants and tranquilizers and I still can't cope.

I have a job that pays more than his does, have held it for 17 years, am a Christian, try to live an ethical, upstanding life. I think I am his stability he doesn't want to give up, but I'm afraid I'm going to hang in here and go through all this pain and then he's just going to say one day, 'Okay, I'm done now. I'm leaving you. Sorry."

I'm not an optimist--can you tell? I want so bad to think we'll be together rebuilding our marriage 6 months from now. He even mentioned something about taking me on a road trip on his Harley this summer, but how can that all be if his entire life is based around this totally sleazy woman who would provide him no real future?

Is there hope for us? Will this affair ever end?Have any of you been here and are seeing success now? I am going CRAZY! I feel most days like I should just check myself into a mental ward. Since my kids are older teens, I'm often home alone now and I just pace the floors because I don't know what to do.

Help!??

She's 25 and has an 8 and 9 year old????? That would put her 14 when the first was born. I would be worried that she might get pregnant with a child of his (unless he's had a vasectomy).

I really, really feel for you, and am sorry you are here in this state. I am a WS, so I can't help much - only that the fog is hard to lift, and it sounds like he's in a lot deeper than I was. I wish you the best. Try to take care of yourself and your teens in the process - they need you!!!!

Felina

I am also a BS

It is 3 weeks since i told my husband to leave the house. I have gone from plan A plan B then back off from Plan B and now i am going back again slowly into Plan A. This time i hope i can stick to Plan A for real.

At first i don't like the idea of Plan A. It sounds totally insane. But after reading more and more postings in here i understand why a lot of MB veteran will stand by Plan A no matter what.

I did exactly what u did. I pleaded, I persuaded, cried like a baby, a total emotional wreck etc etc. I also search his personal diary for her number. To date i still do not know OW name, how she looks like or anything about her except that she is the third party in my marriage. I wanted to hire PI and I wanted to follow him around. I was an obsessed woman...just like you.

Then not getting any answers or getting him back i felt like throwing the towel and just go into Plan B. Plan B sounds so peaceful. When i was in my temporary Plan B i realised i miss him and felt i still did not do enough to save this marriage.

Put yourself in his shoes. If you are in love with two person...one crying and demanding...the other caring and calm...which one will you choose? So first thing first, u have to stop the pain from taking over your emotions. This is the first important step to take which i finally understood about a few days ago.

I am still at the beginning stages in my Plan A. I don't know if my story will turn out to be a successful story but for sure there are signs that Plan A works.

Go here and read all the stories about Plan A
web page

Plan A is hard but it is worth to try.

Your H is in the fog - deeply, but there is still lots of hope. The reason you are going so crazy is that you are focusing too much on him. What worked for me was putting H on the back burner. Instead I worked on me - exercised, cleaned the house spotless, organized, rearranged furniture, joined a women's Bible study, did the yard, detailed the car, worked on a spiritual program. These things gave me something to feel good about.

He has been back and forth between me and OW. He realizes that I am doing well without him. Now he is very depressed, but I feel good most days. So make yourself do some things for YOU. It is hard at first - I was like you, couldn't eat, sleep, stand to be alone, and was like a zombie at work. However as you get interests of your own, you will start enjoying life again.

Stick with this program. It really works. Keep posting and reading and we will help you through this.

Read my year long story on here. My FWH had the same pattern as yours. We have a long-term marriage. He was in a long-term A with a young, loser. We are happily reconciled. I tried to strictly follow the MB principles. You can search on here by using my member no. or name.


There absolutely is hope for you if you follow these principles. First you have to do PLAN A. Read up on it here.

There is slim to little chance that their relationship will last. He is in a fog, addicted to an alien being.

Do not give up hope but this will take work on your part. For me, my marriage was worth it. I had to do it the MB way and not my way, though. Follow these principles. Come back here often for coaching and support.

You can do it!!!!

Lordslady, your story is quite different because your H is a practicing alcoholic. That is a whole different breed of cat. Plan A will only serve to ENABLE an alcoholic because, instead of using it as an opportunity to learn and recover, he will see it as an opportunity to EXPLOIT. Practicing Alcoholics EXPLOIT, we do not have the capacity to LEARN AND GROW because that part of our brain is anesthetized. Plan A is a waste of time.

Your only hope of recovery is if he stops drinking. Until that happens, anything is FRUITLESS. And he will not stop drinking until you help him hit his bottom. He is in a bad place right now, but it is not bad enough to make him stop.

And as long as he has you in the sidelines and a home to flop at, he has NO MOTIVATION to stop. You see, none of this is very hard on him at all. He is anesthetized so can't even begin to comprehend the wreckage in his path.

My recommendations are this:

1. GO TO ALANON NOW!!

2. Move to Plan B

The only thing stopping him from hitting his bottom IS YOU. As long as you helping him in the sidelines and is assured of your devotion, he can continue. That needs to stop IF you want your marriage back. Help him hit his bottom and you might get your H back.

Just reread your post. Yes there is lots of hope for your marriage. I will be generous and give them about a 1 to 2% chance of lasting more than a month or two. Come on, even in the fog he has got to see that he is being used.

In the meantime, get busy working on yourself. He will be back. You might mention to him to be sure that he doesn't produce a fourth child for her to dump somewhere.

ooops! I agree totally with MELODY.

I missed the part about alcoholism.

Dealing with that is the first priority. He has two addictions. WHEW!!!

Did you all feel really weak and really afraid when you implemented your plans? I don't feel like I am ready to go to a plan B yet (btw/besides reading about the plans on here, I am about halfway through the book "Surviving an Affair"). I'd still like to give plan A a chance, just because right now he does still show some love toward me, and he does mention from time to time (during his clear moments) that he knows he's going down the wrong path but he just doesn't know how to get out of it.

As for a 4th child from the floozy, both he AND she have been fixed (at least she finally got smart about one thing). No chance of that, thank goodness.

Does the agonizing pain ever subside? I've felt like someone kicked me in the stomach and my brain has been scrambled since I found out about the EA (mid-Oct), before the PA even took place. It just doesn't seem to get any better.

I am trying to do things, but right now I have absolutely no physical energy so it's hard to even want to clean the house, let alone rearrange it. I just want to lie in bed and sleep and avoid reality.

THanks for all your posts, though. I will stay on here--I definitely need the support just as all of you do.

It is awful at first. I found out in July, and couldn't eat, sleep, or work. But it gets much better. You need to force yourself to do things. That's what I did. The more you do, the better you will feel, and it will help your self esteem. You should also be in Plan A for now.

Check out the website www.flylady.com for encouragement on cleaning the house. There is a great program there that will help you get the whole house done, starting with the kitchen sink.

Your H will be back - but you need to take care of YOU right now. Get going.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
[QB] Did you all feel really weak and really afraid when you implemented your plans? I don't feel like I am ready to go to a plan B yet (btw/besides reading about the plans on here, I am about halfway through the book "Surviving an Affair"). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lordslady, don't you feel really weak and scared NOW? Wouldn't implementing a STRATEGIC PLAN for recovery make you feel better? You are going to be scared one way or the other, why do it for a productive good reason?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'd still like to give plan A a chance, just because right now he does still show some love toward me, and he does mention from time to time (during his clear moments) that he knows he's going down the wrong path but he just doesn't know how to get out of it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor does he have any motivation to get out of it. He is acting like a typical alcoholic in that he says just enough to keep you around. See, he NEEDS YOU. He needs you to be there to support his lifestyle. As long as you support him, he can continue to drink and play with OW.

You talk about love? What he loves is BOOZE. What he loves is what you can give him in order to continue that lifestyle. He doesn't see you.

The purpose of Plan A is to induce the WS to fall in love with you again. The reason this does not work with a practicing alcoholic is because they do not LOVE like normal people do. They love BOOZE. It is impossible for them to enter recovery as long as they are drinking. They do not respond to Plan A as would a normal non-drinker. Like I said above, it is only an opportunity for them to EXPLOIT and continue their destructive patterns. As long as he is drinking, recovery is impossible.

Please go to Alanon and get some real support. Marriage Builders can certainly help you in many ways, but there are many principles, such as Plan A, that can only cause harm to your situation.

I've gone to Alanon, but don't feel comfortable thre because most people's spouses (or whomever is the alcoholic) are still there with them. In my case, I don't even know where I stand, or if I even have a marriage, so I feel very out of place there.

I haven't seen him since yesterday morning. He spent last night with her. This afternoon, I asked if we could go to his friends' house and play cards tonight. He's called about 4 different times to say he's still transporting people (she doesn't have a car), but how long can a person play taxi? I know he's playing games. I just can't bring myself to do a plan B yet because I'm so afraid that will end everything between us. (FYI: I don't buy him booze, and he knows I don't agree with him getting drunk. One of the reasons he hangs out so much with her, I think, is that she allows him to drink all he wants all the time.)

I miss him so much when I don't see him for 48 hours. I can't imagine going months without seeming him, or forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I've gone to Alanon, but don't feel comfortable thre because most people's spouses (or whomever is the alcoholic) are still there with them. In my case, I don't even know where I stand, or if I even have a marriage, so I feel very out of place there.


I miss him so much when I don't see him for 48 hours. I can't imagine going months without seeming him, or forever. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lordslady, Plan B is a strategic plan designed to either get him back full time or to emotionally DETACH from him. As it is now, he has no motivation to change and come back to you full time. So you are left to live with the pain of having the affair rubbed in your nost every day. Plan B helps you detach, greatly lessens your pain AND ideally, gives them the motivation to CHANGE. As it is, your H has no motivation to change becaseu you are enabling him. See what I mean? You will NEVER have better if you continue doing this, but if you move to plan B, at least you have a chance.

I know it is painful. However, a toothache is also painful. The solution to a toothache is a root canal. What you are doing is avoiding the root canal and choosing the LONG TERM PAIN. The root canal is the path to healing and less pain if you will just take it. Plan B is also the path to healing and sanity if you will just take it.

As far as Alanon goes, EVERYONE feels out of place when they first get there. You are no different. Some women are still with their husbands, some are not, it makes no difference. Please don't give up this excellent, MUCH NEEDED resource just because of your feelings. Keep going and you will feel comfortable.

I am starting to suspect that you don't want things to improve at all because of your resistence to possible solutions. I have seen that often in the case of spouses of alcoholics. They are ADDICTED to the insanity and don't really want the alcoholic to get better. Have you asked yourself if you REALLY do want things to improve?

Because there really is no hope if you are not willing to do anything to help the situation. If your comfort level comes first before anything, I don't see any hope.

<small>[ January 17, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I just wanted to say that I agree completely with Melodylane - listen to her - she knows exactly what she is talking about.

I am sorry you are in such pain, and that your situation has brought you here, but you will find a lot of support here, if you keep coming back. Everyone here has walked in your shoes in one way or another and you can gain a lot from the wisdom on this board.

If you read the website carefully, you will see that Harley says that in cases of addiction, handling the addiction must come first. There really is no hope of marital recovery with a practising alcoholic. Melodylane is absolutely right - the longer you continue "being there" for him, the longer you enable him to continue his love affair with booze - and by default, all the crazy behaviour that goes along with that. And the longer you continue your own agony.

"Plan B" is not a plan designed to punish a wayward spouse. It is a way for the betrayed spouse to protect themselves and the love they still have for their temporarily insane partner. Now is the time for you to go to plan B, since you do still love him - his crazy-making behaviour has not yet destroyed the feelings you have for him - and if you do really love him, like Melodylane said, you have to help him hit bottom. The faster he hits bottom, the sooner he has a chance of recovery. Part of plan B is to whip the rug out from under the WS feet - so that he HAS to depend entirely on the OP to meet all his ENs - only then does the WS have a chance of appreciating what he has lost. You let him know that he can come back ONLY if he meets the conditions you set for recovery, once he is gone from the house.

Good posts to read are from BrambleRose - whose H is an alcoholic, and who separated many times, I believe - they reconciled on the steps of the courthouse on the day the divorce was final, but she only let him come home AFTER he had met all her conditions - so its never over until the fat lady sings.

I know you are in a lot of pain, and can't see your way out of it right now, but the best thing for you is to listen to people who have been there, like BrambleRose and Melodylane and start working on yourself - and if you choose to make yourself available to pain, ask yourself why you do that, especially if it is not helping him. It's not helping him to enable him to go on like this.

Maybe it has taken you some time to get to this point, where you are starting to ask yourself these questions, and that's why you are now starting to post. I know it takes time, but you can recover, and you do still have a chance to recover your marriage, but only AFTER he stops drinking. Please do not stop going to Alanon. You need to build your own support group - don't isolate yourself.

LIR

LL, Each Alanon meeting group has a different personality. You need to visit several to find one that fits yours. I have seen Alanon groups for men, women, parents, singles, divorced, college students, retired folks, Catholics, Jews, you name it.

Their concepts have helped me a lot in dealing with my WW's infedlity.

In response to MelodyLane, no offense taken by the comment about my perhaps not wanting things to change, but believe me, I TRULY want out of this mess this way. I am dying a little each day. I pray and pray that God will change his heart and make him see how his drinking is ruining his life. I know I can't push him to stop. It's never worked in the past. He's had several sober periods during or marriage, the longest being 2 years (Oct 2001-Oct 2003), but they usually come only after something really bad happens, like an OWI, an accident, a surgery, etc. I'm so afraid this "hitting bottom" could be him killing someone or himself, and I keep asking myself, "If I kick him out (which is the last thing I want to do in my life--he IS my life), and then he has no good influences and this happens, I'll forever say "what if I'd have waited". It would haunt me. I just keep hoping, and getting hurt.

I do know that the alcohol addiction is going to make ending his affair MUCH harder. Even though he says he can't imagine life without me in it, she enables his drinking. That's where he does most of it, and that's why he often doesn't come home at night. She allows him to get blitzed over there and then he sleeps it off.

It does really hurt. We were together this weekend (though he was drinking heavily at our friends when we were there) and it felt so good to just end up in the same bed with him last night, snuggled up next to him. It was almost like everything was okay.

Tonight--he has "things to take care of" and then he'll call me. This means he's at her house, his cell phone is shut off, and he may or may not call or come home.

I feel like a complete failure because I don't have the strength to let go. I just can't imagine not hearing his voice daily. He has always been my "safe place". I know, it sounds nuts, but we've been together since 15. My entire life is him. He's been with me through all the events in my life. I don't know how to let go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I pray and pray that God will change his heart and make him see how his drinking is ruining his life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't PRAY! That is the WRONG THING to do if you want to keep him drunk. See, he will only sober up IF he hits bottom. God changes the hearts of alcoholics by bringing them to their bottom - CRASH BOOM. He does not wave a magic sobriety wand and restore them to sanity, LL. Alcoholics do not just wake up and see the error of their ways.

Many of us have to hit a HARD BOTTOM and God is notorious for bringing the bottom to US. NOTORIOUS! There is a saying in AA, "watch what you pray for, you might get it." I am serious, if you want to keep him drunk and avoid hitting bottom, don't pray!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, it sounds nuts, but we've been together since 15. My entire life is him. He's been with me through all the events in my life. I don't know how to let go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have him now, though? As long as he is drunk what is it that you think you have?

Okay, I don't understand how praying is bad. I don't want him to remain drunk. I want him to quit. I know he needs to hit bottom (or near it) in order to wake up. I'd take an OWI or a job loss on his part at this point, if that's what it would take to get him to stop drinking and then get out of this A and come back to our marriage.

I spoke with my (actual our) therapist tonight. He still isn't willing to write my WS off as one who never will quit drinking, since he has had periods of sobriety. However, he said it is obviously escalating and that he could continue downhill and end up killing himself or ruining his life, and that chances of him seeing the light in the A aren't great unless he clears his brain of the alcohol first.

I'm so depressed. He runs to her for everything. Tonight, he's transporting her kids around, even though he admits he doesn't like kids. He says our relationship is out of control, and that he needs a place of his own. (He admitted he's feeling this because he's getting a lot of pressure from the OW to get a place so he can think straight, instead of coming home to me. Of course this doesn't mean he'll quit going to her.)

I really feel like I have no backbone. I feel like the pain is going to kill me if I lose him, but it's killing me slowly now, too.

If I have to move to a plan B, does it have to be one with absolutely no contact, or can we talk some, as long as we are not staying together and as long as I set boundaries that require him to seek help for his drinking and to give her up before we can get back together?

lordslady, praying is bad if you don't want him to hit bottom, because that is the only way he will sober up. I assure you he is not going to wake up in the morning and see the error of his ways and stop drinking and suddenly become a sane man. God will not wave a magic wand and make him all better. He will bring him to his knees so he WANTS to get better. Please pray for STRENGTH, SANITY, and GUIDANCE!

And the same with you. You have lived in this insanity so long that you deseperately need the help and support of some experienced pros like Alanon. You haven't been drunk through all this insanity, he has. You have had to face all of this sober, which has been devastating, no doubt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really feel like I have no backbone. I feel like the pain is going to kill me if I lose him, but it's killing me slowly now, too.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you don't have him now, LL. You are killing yourself NOW. Don't you see? You have already lost him. You are just pretending that you have a husband. You don't.

The way to get him back is to go into Plan B and remove the props that have helped him stay drunk all this time. If he sobers up, you might have a chance at a marriage. Right now, he belongs to his first love: BOOZE, and his second love: the OW. He is insane and no amount of Plan A can make him sane again.

Plan B is no guarantee that you will get him back, either. But it comes with a huge bonus. And that is the peace of mind that comes with DETACHMENT. It is the peace of mind and SANITY that comes from being away from an insane drunk who rubs his AFFAIR in your nose every day.

As far as Plan B goes, it must be followed srupulously or he won't take it seriously. He will try everything to keep you as a PROP but you can't let him use you again. As far as conditions to come back, I would insist on either alcohol treatment and/or AA and a demonstration of sobriety along with a complete end to his affair.

I know that none of this easy, but look at it like a getting root canal. It is short term pain for long term gain. Your way all but ENSURES long term pain for NO GAIN. Your way is hopeless. But you can do it and we will help you here with support. I also wish you would go back to Alanon. They would be a wonderful source of support for you now.

LL, I will try and contact another lady here who would be extremely helpful to you! Her name is Bramblerose and she has been through the same thing you are going through. She now has a wonderful marriage and I think she could be a great help to you!