I agree. My sister let her x have custody. The oldest has done time in prison. When the 2nd one was failing school to the point where there was no way he'd have enough credit to graduate with his class (first of his Junior year), and the youngest (age 12) got caught driving dad's pickup down main street at midnight while dad was home in bed, she stepped in and tried to get custody. Of course the two juvies liked living with dad because there were no boundaries and no discipline. Sister couldn't get custody back, even with these drastic consequences on her children.

No way Kily. Find a way to fight for your son.

I think she should seek a judgement that says in effect: You be nice and quit with the verbal abuse and take your turns (on time) when they come around, or you will give up your rights for visitation all together.

SS,

You know what...this will NEVER happen because no one can MAKE him take his "parenting" time. (It is usually referred to as visitation, I use the term "parenting".) It is really really sad that the non-custodial parent cannot be forced to adhere to the order. You would think that since it is an "order" it would be as such, but judges will use the term "if he so chooses". I find it deplorable that a parent wouldn't want every minute of time with their child that they are allowed to have.

My first husband did not show up to get the children either. When I mentioned it to the judge...to get the times decreased...he told me that those times are there for their father if he so CHOOSES to use it. He also said that the only person who suffers from his not using it..is the Father. Excuse Me??? What about the kids???

It is an "order" when the custodial parent has to hand them over. Why isn't it an "order" when they are waiting for the noncustodial parent to show up?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You will find that they can't make the parent show up....nor are they willing to alter the order of visitation (ugly word). They hide behind that "if he so chooses". Well....what about if I so "choose" to not let them go with him....huh???? I was close to being in contempt so I had to let it go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

kily,

Thank you so much for responding to my post to you with grace and courtesy. You saw exactly what I was getting at and you accepted it with the helpfulness I intended it to be. It is so nice to see people extend that courtesy. I have been spending too much time on the EN board and I had forgotten how nice the people on GQII can be when you post. Thank You again.

Hey.....are concrete boots an option for him? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

committed

Committed,

WOW, I didn't realize things were so different in other places. You make an interresting point and it may be that nothing can be done about visitation. I hope the abuse is addressed though, I would hope that something can be done about that part of contact with him.

You are very kind also, and you ought to get credit for it -

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:

I agree. My sister let her x have custody. The oldest has done time in prison. When the 2nd one was failing school to the point where there was no way he'd have enough credit to graduate with his class (first of his Junior year), and the youngest (age 12) got caught driving dad's pickup down main street at midnight while dad was home in bed, she stepped in and tried to get custody. Of course the two juvies liked living with dad because there were no boundaries and no discipline. Sister couldn't get custody back, even with these drastic consequences on her children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find this post totally insulting and degrading to fathers like myself that have custody of their children. FYI there are plenty of similar cases where the mother had custody and the kids turned out less than model citizens. One's gender should not be the basis for granting custody. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No way Kily. Find a way to fight for your son.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah it's going to be easier for Kily to regain her parental rights after her son gets remanded to the foster parent system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Coffeeman,

I don't have much experiance with the legal system - only a few friends that had problems. It seemed to me that the group is way out of bounds -I don't know the system there and I don't know if what that group says will really carry much weight. I figure her laywer would know how things work there and could give her much better advice about that - but you worry a lot about it and I respect your opinion as much as anyone on MB. I can't remember (maybe because I am almost as old as 2long?) if you had a big battle over your kids, but it seems (fuzzy, but I try) that your W didn't put up much of a fight. You must have done the research though, and I think later your W did cause some problems.

I figured the threat to Kily's mental health from X was worse than the threat of loss of DS by the group, but I can't access the legal ramifications like her laywer should be able to do. That's where I am coming from - but I think she really needs her lawyer to come through on this one and advise her if she should fight or if she should talk.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> [QUOTE]I find this post totally insulting and degrading to fathers like myself that have custody of their children. FYI there are plenty of similar cases where the mother had custody and the kids turned out less than model citizens. One's gender should not be the basis for granting custody. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look TMCM, I think you had one cup too many today. I said NOTHING about the gender issue here. I was talking about my sister relinquishing custody to her ex, only to find that he wasn't making the kids go to school, wasn't setting any limits and he's asleep in bed while his 12 year old is out racing down main street shooting out windows! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She lives in a state that favors the mother, sure. But her situation has nothing to do with gender here! It has to do with the fact that her two juvenile delinquent boys were able to pull one over on the social worker reviewing the case and the dad had no responsibility/accountability within the system.

It's easier to stand up to an aggressive ex spouse up front than it is to gain ground after you give up the hill.

AGAIN, [b]I didn't bring up my sister's situation to step on a gender trigger point here, TMCM - I have too much respect for the men who have done everything they can to preserve some kind of relationship with their wives. Look at my track record on my posts to GSN, etc. We're not adversaries, at least, I'm not your enemy!!!!!!

Kily has enough documentation from her ex that a few well-timed confrontation recordings would be all that it takes to see which parent has the best interests of the child in place - not the passifists on the therapy group. For her son's sake, she cannot cave into the psychological blackmail. She can take documentation of her willingness to submit to therapy - which her ex has not, etc. etc.

I'm just recommending that she not give into their threats at this point. She doesn't have enough assurance that they are acting any better in the interests of her child than her ex is.

Kily I'm very sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread with my reply to KaylaAndy's post.

I also don't agree with the blackmail tactics of these so-called 'counselors' either but the reality is that they have issued a warning to both you and your X, and IMSHO at this time it behooves you to get on the good side of these individuals for they do have the power to sway the court to temporarily take away your (and your X's) parental rights by placing your son in foster care. As your IC said, if this happens, your son could very likely suffer a great deal from the turmoil of being placed in a completely foreign environment. Consult with your attorney if it MAY not be better for you to try to impress these social workers by taking the initiative of proposing different arrangements to him. If he outright shoots them down in front of them, they may include it in their report to the court. Right now is not the time to get into 'tit for tat' with your X no matter how justified you are in doing so. To paraphrase an often quoted MB saying: 'Do you want to be right, or do you want custody of your son'.

Hmmmmm. Kily, social workers are not ones who would normally recommend something like foster care for a child unless the situation is drastic.

I would suggest one, and only one, question to them the next time you see them:

I do not want my son in foster care. What can -I- do, in this situation, to prevent that from happening? My ex may, or may not, want to change this dynamic, but I do. So what can I do?

And then take notes. Ask for specifics. Listen carefully. Do not fight while they're giving you information.

All that information needs to go to your lawyer and your IC and to your heart. That's the point to build from.

All-

I enjoy the hijack because it is an issue that needs to be explored by ALL...not just me who has this absurdity in her life right now.

I have an interesting update from my IC and will post it when I have more time later today. It certainly is an interesting debate and I truly appreciate ALL of the input.

One thing I will add before I go - Still Seeking this will make you feel very happy - I had been pondering the course of my furture. This situation has basically lit aq fire under my A$$. I have a meeting set up with the psych. department at the local community college. I will finish my Degree and start working towards the LMFT field as of September. I am going to be an advocate for people that are caught in the system the way I am. I want to be a voice for the abused, and for the kids that have to suffer while the system cranks along...

Since, Saturday's meeting, I have had this conviction in me. I feel passionate agaonm for the first time since the mirror incident in Las Vegas. My body has an energy coursing through it that I can't explain and my depression is finally gone...