Have you cleaned your kitchen sink?

I did clean my sink, but not the Flylady way. (I just read up on that now.) My sink is clean, and by the way...she mentions Bar Keepers Friend...that's what I use always on my sink because I also keep it for my stainless cookware. It does work wonders getting scuffs out of a white sink.

My poor sink needs replaced. Only 5 years old but has taken a beating and is chipped. It'll never shine quite right, but maybe I'll go through Flylady's whole process tonight or tomorrow.

BTW, H did come home last night at about midnight, so that if S needed a ride to school today he could take him. But got up late, S already gone, still sick from bronchial thing he won't se Dr. for, and said "I'm late for work".

Instead of asking him to snowblow my drive, I just said "Go, I'll do it later." Hit me...I enabled him to do nothing again.

I don't think I can go to a straight N/C Plan B on Monday when he moves to the apt, but maybe I'll give it a couple weeks of backing off on the calls and see what happens, and then if nothing changes or if he starts calling even less, go to formal Plan B.

I really am scared. SO many different decisions to make. How do I know I'm making the right one? Guess that's where I need to be trusting God.

One small bright spot...after 3 months of shock and pain, my appetite is finally starting to return. Maybe I can eventually put my weight back on so everything doesn't hang on me.

It may not be time for Plan B yet...You have a better feel for that.

But don't modify your Plan A much. Give him a GREAT dose of what he'll be missing by moving away and staying drunk. Fill his lovebank!!!!

Hang in there and stay with the program here. It works. In the meantime, get busy on house so you have something to feel good about.

Obviously he will not be happy with OW too long. So let him go and work on you.

Despite mixed advice from others on whether Plan A/B works for an alcoholic, I still feel best personally about doing whatever I can to keep the peace (though he still knows I don't like the affair) until he moves out. I want him to leave happy with me, not mad at me.

I read a rather depressing post earlier on one of the other boards...can't remember which...Plan A/B maybe? Someone posted that if an affair goes on for longer than 3 months (WH) or 6 months (WW), the chances of getting back together greatly reduce. I think they meant after the affair was discovered, but still...hope this isn't really true. It's been almost 4 months since H's was out in the open with no signs of it slowing.

Too bad I always see the depressing posts. I need to read a few success stories.

Bummer of a day so far today. I hate weekends because the kids are out doing their thing (S just left for work, D spent night with a friend and is at the mall now). I had two good hours the salon but other than that, my mind has been focused on WH and nothing I try to do seems to help.

Dreamed about him ALL night last night..little snippit dreams about different things, but he was there in all of them.

Of course, he called last night right after I got home to say he was taxiing OW's baby somewhere...must be her weekend without kid. Then he says "I don't think I"m doing the right thing moving out." I told him I did, because things weren't changing the way they are now. He says "I think it's coming to an end." (So of course I get this little ray of hope, even though I've heard that for two months.) I said, "Well, if you end it, it's still not a bad thing for you to be out for a while. It might even be fun..us having an apartment with an indoor pool we can hang out in." (See..I'm going delusional now.)

He agrees, and says he'll call me later.

No more calls from him last night. No show up at home. No calls from him today. It's now 2pm. Even when he stays with her on the weekends, which he normally does, he calls me Saturday morning. He's pulling further and further away. I can only imagine what he did last night. I want to call so bad, but I know I'll only get his voice mail, and I know that's chasing him and fulfilling his EN's and allowing him to sit on the fence even longer.

I just feel that hope is sliding away. It's like he doesn't even care to hear from me anymore, except to make sure I'm okay every now and then.

Is this normal for WS to do? Even ones who eventually come back? Again, that post I read yesterday about when WH affair goes on for more than 3 months, it really lessens the chances of reconciliation.

I have better days and bad days. Obviously, this is one of the bad ones. I need to file taxes, but that means looking at "our" stuff. I need to pay bills, again looking at "our" stuff.

I know, when I say I don't want to lose him, a number of you have reminded me he's already gone. But I've been surviving by telling myself it's just a temporary loss. What if it really is permanent?

Having an A is like an addiction, just like his drinking. He is involved in 2 addictions at the same time.

KEEP UP WITH PLAN A!!!

You can't Plan A and Plan B at the same time. Plan B needs to come as a shock, as a surprise, with a Plan B letter, and no other contact after that.

He is staying away because he feels guilty, and you are not rescuing from that guilt...that's OK, that is not an LB. What are his 3 top EN's, and how can you meet them for the next few days (when does he move out?)

When he moves out is an IDEAL time to switch to Plan B. Do you have a letter ready?

There is the possibility that he may never come back if he leaves...but there always has been that possibility. There is the possibility you will not want him back....but there always has been. There are no guarantees in marriage.

You are scared of losing him, but are you willing to share him with his mistress?

Plan A is to help him fall in love again. Call him if that is one of HIS EN's (not yours). Plan B is to protect what remaining love you have and to help him see what life without you would be like.

There are no hard and fast rules about whether it is more or less difficult to come back after a certain amount of time. Follow your gut, but check out things on here (sometimes our gut is just fear and emotions). You seem lik eyou have hope, and that's a good thing, seems there's a chance. And it sound like he wants to come back. Make sure your Plan B letter spells out the path he needs to take for you to accept him back (N/C with OW with a letter, etc...)

You are doing great. You answered his reply excellently on the phone, I probably would have added, "When the OW is no longer in the picture think of the fun we'll have at your new place."

I know when he moves out would be the time to Plan B, but he moves out (or at least can, because the apt is his) on MONDAY!

I generally never see him on Saturdays anymore (though usually he calls..and still no call today), and then sometimes he comes home later Sunday night and sometimes he doesn't. Not much time together to meet any needs.

I'm not even sure what his top EN's are. He'd never fill out the questionnaire. I believe they are to feel respected, to have a clean (and calm) house, and to have someone take care of him. i"m trying on most accounts (though house isn't perfectly clean or calm).

I know in my mind he may never come back if he moves out. That's what I'm so afraid of, though. That's why I've let him ride the fence for so long...hoping it wouldn't get to this place and that he'd let her go. But she's VERY good at making feel like he has to take care of her. I think that's where we differ. I can take care of my business fairly well (bills, shopping, taking care of the house, hauling the kids around). She has no car and no $ and for some reason now, he feels responsible to take her places, buy her food, haul her kids around, etc. (And of course I know there are things he's getting in return that he is enjoying that make me cringe.)

I still haven't called him today, because I feel like if I do, I'm chasing him. I've had people tell me that guys like to be the chasers, not the chasees (though she chased him, too) and that if keep chasing, he'll keep pulling away, but if I back off, he may wonder what happened and start calling me.

It's really hard. And I'm doing no better getting out of my funk than I was 2 hours ago. I'm taking myself to the mall in hopes that at least walking around there might take my mind off things for a while.

I thought my pain was getting a little better, but today it's all back again.

LordsLady

You do need a good plan B, and you have to maintain it until reality set in for your H. Statements like he thinks it will end soon are designed to keep you meeting some of his needs while he continues the A. Did you ask him why he tells you about OW's children and what he's doing with them. Or tell him you really don't give a cr#p about her or her children when they are helping to destroy the M.

IMHO you are tollerating to much. He should have more respect for you. Its time you start to demand that respect. He truly needs you more then you need him. Its time you showed him that.

You are stronger then you think you are. Start to show that strength.

It's funny, the therapist that H sees I also see through an agreement with my daughter's school. (long story for another day).

This therapist, while of course can't talk to me about what he and H discuss, said in one of our recent sessions, that he thinks my H needs me more than I need him.

Why doesn't he show it? Why is he walking further and further away, and staying away from home nearly every night, and not calling much anymore (still hasn't called today..it's 9pm).

I don't feel very strong right now. I feel very lonely. I want so much to hear his voice...I need that just to feel calm. Who needs who?

lordslady

You do love your H, and that is always good, and yes it makes you vulnerable to a lot of things. Why is he going further away, I don't know I'm not a WH, all I can think is that it could be guilt, combined with the thick fog he see's everything through.

Its possible he doesn't want to admit that he needs you.

Pray to God for strength, he is faithful. Keep yourself busy reading, praying.

Why is he walking further and further away, and staying away from home nearly every night, and not calling much anymore (still hasn't called today..it's 9pm).

human nature is to move from away from more painful to less painful...

where does a liar feel most comfortable and least likey to have to face the reality of their consequances...

why with other liars....
why with the OW...for surely she and can twist and rationalize their downright disrepectful actions in to something that they can not help or control...

I am going to stay on you to set boundaries that protect you....most likely to your annoyance... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BUT
you won't be the first one I have annoyed and probably not the last I bet... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But do it because you are way way way to focused on him and his actions and his doings..
completely focused on his fog speak...
why did he say this..
what did he mean by that...
when what you really should be hearing if his mouth is moving...is blah blah blah blah...

the energy and time you have focused on him needs to be re-routed back to you and the boundaries you DESERVE in a respectful relathionship...

again and again I say to you..
you are not in control or responsible for ANYTHING he does...
no one is but himself...


What do your children say about his behavior..
what does HE say to the children about his behavior..
do not protect him from them...
while not putting him down in front of them...do not protect him from his actions and the consequances they are entitled to process and feel...


the triangle he has created is doubly unhealthy based on his drinking....
and you need strong and clear boundaries about what role you play in this...

have you logistically discussed once he moves out...how and when he will see the children..
have you discussed safe boundaries for seeing the children that involve him not drinking and driving with them and not consuming alchohol with him...
have you discussed visitation with him over the children...
these are the realities of his actions...
and no one running and drinking will bring up facing them on their own...

set clear boundaries
remove yourself from the triangle..
get to alanon this week...today on-line...
find the people who know how you feel and have the tools necessarry to get through these treacherous waters...

I wish you so much peace...but to get peace you have to remove yourself from the chaos...and this chaos is not your kitchen sink...

ark

Ark, just a quick reply for now as I'm getting ready to go to church.

As for our children, they're 14 and 17 and basically have their own social life. They are very angry at their father. They avoid him. They don't want to see him, so I don't even see visitation as an option right now. I would probably have to physically drag them to his place. My son can drive, but I'll guarantee right now, won't drive there.

As for the sink, on Believer's behalf (and all poeple who have recommended Flylady.com), though I STILL haven't done it the flylady way, and though you're right, my kitchen sink isn't where the chaos is, it still feels good to have a clean sink. It's a small accomplishment when I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything else.

Oh, and by the way, still no contact from WS since Friday early evening. This is very unusual. I usually get a call daily.

Because I haven't heard from cops, I'm assuming he's okay. But my mind then says "okay, they're deliriously happy because he's moving out and OW is seeing an end to our marriage. Things are going just as she planned."

Okay, Ark, a little more detail: My children right now are very angry with what their father is doing. They are 14 and 17 and not stupid. They want me to either kick him out or to move out myself. My daughter has even threatened to leave herself if he comes back. This makes things doubly hard, because I want him back and I don't want my kids ruining it for me, just because they're angry. My daughter is VERY hard headed and very rebellious--currently out of school for the semester for skipping classes constantly. She's in correspondence courses now. She was a major stressor on our marriage before the A because she's so hard to control.

They don't care to talk to him, to see him, or anything. I doubt he'll initiate much contact either. It's easier for him to live his life with the OW with them not in the picture. Her kids (1yr--has custody and 8yr, grandpa has custody) complicate their relationship enough in his eyes.

I know I'm not responsible for how he's acting. It's just breaking my heart to watch someone I believed was a good man destroy himself and his family. When you love someone with all your heart, you don't want to see them do things like this.

I am so afraid I'm losing him for good. Still no call since Friday night. I now know where he is because I called a mutual friend and she finally answered the phone...very quietly...and said she'd call when she could. This is the place I'd asked if he'd take me last night to play some cards. Guess not.

I'm sick today from anxiety. Everything I gained over the last couple weeks in getting my appetite back is gone again. I went shopping yesterday to try and find smaller clothes because all mine hang on me now or don't fit at all, but not much out there in a 4-tall. Now, with no appetite, I'm sure I'll ditch a few more pounds.

I'm angry with me because my faith that God has me where he wants me to be is so low. I just want him to take me out of this and remove the pain. I want a companion who loves me again.

I don't want to be alone. I want my husband back. I don't want him with his worthless OW. I'm worried now that at 38, if he leaves me for good, I'll never marry again. I've heard a lot of women say they don't want another man. Not the case for me. I dream of a companion I love who I can grow old with. What if tht never happens? The one goal I've had in life since I was small was to have a husband and a family. I am not an independent woman. I don't want to be. I'm not into the feminist movement. I want a man to take care of me (not financially--I earn a good living). I want someone who maks me feel special. I want that to be my H, but he's walking out on me.

I know I posted this same statement on another post, but I am VERY lonely today and fear it's just going to get worse as he moves out tomorrow. I'm considering Plan B, but don't know if I'm ready to break off all contact.

I may be strong in a lot of ways, and able to handle business on my own very well, but when it comes to the love of my life being gone, I am NOT strong at all!!!!