</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
<strong> Thanks for your advice everyone. So, I should get solid evidence first before moving to Plan B? I can't really prove that he was with her, although I know in my heart he was. Still, I feel I must have solid, undisputable proof before I jump the gun. There is always the minutest of possibilities that he wasn't with her. I would hate to destroy what we have been building the past few weeks. Please someone else advise. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nid, you know he is in still in contact with her, thats all you need to know. You don't need to prove what you already know. If you want to help end this affair, then its time to move to Plan B. As long as you keep playing along with this, he can play both sides of the fence.

What man in his right mind would willingly give up TWO WOMEN meeting his needs? He has the best of both worlds and as long as he can throw you a few crumbs now and again, he can keep you quiet and continue on in this way.

Now, if you want to stop this silly game of hide and seek and move forward, then its time to expose the affair and go to Plan B. You've done a good Plan A, now is the time to pull him off the fence before he gets in deeper with the OW.

You're right Melody. I will do this.

Ok WAT I'm weighing in here!

He'll be madder than mad. It's embarrassing to be caught in an A, imagine that?! Natural consequences are a beautiful thing! Certainly, he wasn't planning on keeping this wonderful, elicit relationship a secret? You have simply let people in on the fact that your reality has changed. H is in a fantasy! He doesn't get it that your reality has changed. He needs to get it in order for your marriage to move forward to recovery.

Definitely tell but tell wisely and whom you tell, even more wisely than that.

Mel - do you agree that Plan B requires separation? Let's make sure we're not confusing nid.

Are you advocating exposure, then nid move out if H doesn't? I believe she should expose, then go to Plan B IF H moves out as a result of the exposure.

If he doesn't or refuses to move out, I don't think nid should move out unless she's legally protected - which would thus be a prerequisite to Plan B.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Mel - do you agree that Plan B requires separation? Let's make sure we're not confusing nid.

Are you advocating exposure, then nid move out if H doesn't? I believe she should expose, then go to Plan B IF H moves out as a result of the exposure.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely, WAT. I think he will agree to move out temporarily if she gives him the Plan B letter, we hadn't discussed a back up plan in case he doesn't agree to this. I do think she should do the exposure before Plan B so she can have an opportunity to do some damage repair beforehand.

OK, good, Mel - we're on the same page, but with a sequence difference. But I was thinking the Plan B letter should not come UNTIL he moves out. Nothing says he'll move out upon receipt of a Plan B letter. If he doesn't, that's an immediate end to Plan B. She cannot MAKE him move out. Hmmmm?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you advocating exposure, then nid move out if H doesn't? I believe she should expose, then go to Plan B IF H moves out as a result of the exposure.

If he doesn't or refuses to move out, I don't think nid should move out unless she's legally protected - which would thus be a prerequisite to Plan B.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I need to expose first. If I do this, I know he will leave. There is also a huge possibility that he will never forgive me for it. I only want to expose so that he will step down from that board. He must have no reason to contact her. He must end all ties, preferably right now.

As for me moving out, I'm not going anywhere. I am staying with my son and my son needs to be in his home. What do I do if my H doesn't leave? After all, he's been threatening this since July and he's still here. I don't think he wants to go anywhere. But I'm not sure if the reason is because he doesn't want to leave me. I think it probably has more to do with the fact that he doesn't want to leave our son. And also, because the logistics of it would be extremely difficult. He has been out of a job until recently, he isn't close to his mother, and I don't think he could very well go to the OW's while she and her H are in the midst of their divorce.

I just can't go on being lied to. I don't eat, I can't sleep, I'm not giving my job any importance. I need to move on with my life. I can't handle this limbo because he can't make a decision about his committment to our M.

I just feel like I don't know anything about anything anymore.

A few thoughts, nid.

Yes, he may very well leave when you expose the affair. I think it's VERY premature to conclude this will be permanent. In fact, it may be necessary that he leave for the reasons you state - the logistics are h3ll, he doesn't want to be away from his son, and OW isn't "fully" available - all this means that he'll be stranded. Good. Then, when you lay Plan B on him - and stick to it - he'll REALLY be stranded. Oh well.

But, he'll have PLENTY of reasons to contact her and be needy, etc., regardless of whether he steps down from the board or not. So, seeing him step down is irrelevant.

ABSOLUTELY - you're NOT going anywhere!!!!!! Under NO circumstances do you leave your home or your son. Not even an option - unless you decide you want a divorce and get legal protection first.

nid - your feelings are normal. YOU are normal. You're doing good.

WAT

Nid, believe me, I would never suggest that you leave your home except in the most extreme circumstances. The WS is always the one who should leave. That is part and parcel of a much needed wake up call. And your son is already in an unstable situation that doesn't need to be aggravated. The goal is to get him to leave so I would start thinking about contingency plans in case he refuses.

I know you are very concerned about exposing the OW and your H's reaction, but please don't say never. Sure, that may happen, but more likely he will forgive when he comes out from under the fog. And one of the BEST TOOLS to bring a WS out from the fog is to expose the affair and all its ugliness. Most WS are initially angry, but once they get away from the affair, the picture looks entirely different and it is often the very thing that brings the marriage back to a point where recovery can take place.

Have you thought about exposing the OW in a group email to the board members? That way you don't have to personally face each one. It might be less stressful and more effective to just WRITE out your thoughts. You wouldn't be as nervous and embarrassed.

Okay WAT, I'm a little confused. Does Plan B involve asking him to move out? If he doesn't move out, I can't do Plan B. Do I stay in limbo?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In fact, it may be necessary that he leave for the reasons you state - the logistics are h3ll, he doesn't want to be away from his son, and OW isn't "fully" available - all this means that he'll be stranded. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure I understand that statement. Did you phrase that first part right? Those are the reasons I think he hasn't and won't leave.

Now, he just called me and to hear his voice just confused me even more. I don't want to hurt him even though he has hurt me. Why am I such a doormat?

Nid, another thing I wanted to point out. I know that the thought of no contact [ala Plan B] is often very scary to BS' but you will find that you actually feel better and will experience PEACE in Plan B. It is not easy the first week, but you will calm down enormously when your nose is not being rubbed in the affair every day and you don't feel like you have to babysit an untrustworthy person 24 hours a day. To most, it is a RELIEF.

It is important that you do it right, though, and send a carefully worded letter outlining your motivation and laying a path back. But we can help you with that step if/when you get to that point.

I'm almost there Mel. I'm working on a letter and will post it here when I'm done so you can give me your feedback.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The goal is to get him to leave so I would start thinking about contingency plans in case he refuses.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kinds of contingency plans?

One might be to contact an attorney and have him legally removed. But hopefully it won't come to that. The bottom line is that when you are ready to move to Plan B, no contact is crucial for it to have any effect.

Exposure helps to clear up some of the fantasy of the A.

Of course, he is the one that moves out...and then comes plan B. Yes, he might move out after you expose. Fine.

Her kids will never take the place of his/your son. It shouldn't take long before he it becomes very clear that if he's with her and her kids, he is with another man's family.

I just want you to know that even if the OW's divorce becomes final and your H goes to be with her it doesn't mean that your M is over.

I know how hard it is to not be able to eat or sleep. I experienced many months like that. It does get better. Unfortunately, you are probably in for quite a rollercoaster ride before it's all over, one way or the other.

You are doing a good job with this. You can do it. The best thing is to be the calm, rational one. Be a good listener to him before he moves out and you go to plan B.

We all contributed to the pre-A state of our marriages. Don't accept all the blame he tries to lay on you. Lots of the crap he lays on you is part of what he needs to do for himself to feel justified for what he's doing.

It is always good to recognize our part and work to correct ourselves. It sounds like that is just what you've been doing. That he keeps bringing up the past is just to assuage his own guilt. He feels like he needs to hold on to it all.

You've been given excellent advise from WAT and Mel et al.

Nobodys really answered my question about how exposing could possibly affect my son. My H and the OW both have tons of mutual friends. All our kids go to the same schools, play sports together, etc. My H thinks that if I expose my son will be hurt by his peers. I think that's absurd. What 10 year olds go around blasting each other about their parent's marriages? And don't you think most parents wouldn't be discussing my H's A in front of their children? How would the kids even know this? How else could he be hurt by exposure? Anyone with experience here? How much do I tell him about why we may be separating?

Nid,

Expose the A. He is using fear to get u to clam up. My WS said the same thing. He said it would embrassed me n the whole family blah blah blah. I am still standing tall and my dignity intact. People understands, nid.

Look at it at another perpective. If you don't expose and you end up divorce anyway...won't EVERYONE know by then??? So why wait until then??? Why not expose now before OW steals your husband away and you don't get your chance.

Also, you are trying to win back the father for your son. If you don't do anything your son might lose his family unit so what is the point of hiding????

Furthermore if you go into Plan B without trying then you will forever wonder if you did do everything or not.

These are the thoughts i went through and that is why i fully support expose the A.

Tell your son the truth. My daughter is only 4 plus and i told her the truth. I said to her, papa loves another girl more than mama. I also told her it is not her fault and that mama and papa loves her very very much no matter what happens. They understand more than you think they can. There was onday i caught my daugther asking WS why he loves the other girl more than mama. It was so heartbreaking to hear her say that. Of course WS was speechless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ February 10, 2004, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: zizzycool ]</small>