ok, I just said a prayer for you, LL. Be strong and firm, I know you can do it. Come back here and let us know how it went and how you feel.

I'm back. He's gone to his apartment. Strong, I wasn't exactly. Lots of blowing my nose and wiping my eyes. I couldn't stop it once it started. He was only here about 15 minutes. I talked to him a little first, just to explain that this is NOT the "kiss off" letter that his friend says it will be interpreted as.

I told him I do not want a divorce, that love him dearly and I truly want us to be back together again, but that it's his decision and if he chooses not to come back to me, that eventually we would have to divorce--that I won't go like this forever.

He showed little emotion except for twitching his leg at about 100mph while he was sitting there. I explained that the reason I am doing this is because I have to distance myself from what is going on (I think the tears actually may have made that fairly clear, as well as making clear I'm not the cold b**** he's accused me of being over the last couple weeks.)

I did suggest that he consider adding text messaging to his phone because something could be communicated quickly and easily without the risk of getting into a hurtful conversation over the phone. I checked--it's only $2.99 for 100 msg/month--way more than enough, no matter who he texts. Tried to sell it as an alternative to email since he doesn't have a computer.

His only comment about the letter was "so it's all okay as long as I conform (sarcastic tone) to your ideals?"

I responded, I am not asking you to be a changed person. I realize that for a lot of years I've tried to change a lot of things about you because I thought they were for the best, when really they didn't matter and I should have let you be who you were (this is the truth...my control nature). I said, "However, I don't think I am asking something unrealistic as a wife to ask that my husband be faithful to me. Nothing can happen with our marriage until you break off contact with OW." His response was sort of an under his breath, "it's getting closer and closer". I didn't respond.

When he left, he did spontaneously give me a hug and a very sweet kiss and he did tell me he loved me. (Fog probably, but still the first sign I've had that he still has feelings in couple weeks.) Then he somberly walked out the door and I walked back upstairs. We have a skylight by our door and I was watching, and he turned around to look at me again as he walked down the driveway.

So of course I'm sitting here right now typing this in tears. It's really scary. It's hard. I don't doubt we'll blow the phone contact part--I know both of us well, but I'm going to try very hard to keep it at a minumum if it happens, and repeatedly suggest that txt would be better.

I know...weak, very weak, but the best I could pull off. I am NOT a strong person.

Pray for me. I'm feeling rather nauseaus right now.

A BIG HUG:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{LORDSLADY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You did a great job, don't you dare sell yourself short! You don't sound weak at all. You gave him the letter and explained the purpose very well. Now is the time to go dark and follow through on your commitment to no contact. LET US HELP YOU DO THIS!

I am concerned that you don't really mean NO CONTACT, though, when you talk about phone calls and text messaging. That IS contact and defeats the entire purpose of Plan B. It is supposed to remove all facets of assurance, which is another form of meeting needs, and prevents you from withdrawing yourself from the situation.

You know, my H left me when my boys were teenagers and I simply made arrangements as if I were a single parent for my children. I implore you to look for ways to resolve this problem, it will make all the difference between a success and a failure.

ok, now is time to press forward and let us support you through this.

Are you ok?

Okay ML, let me tell you how long it took to break the no contact rule. He called me just a little while ago, very concerned because there was an missed call on his cell from an odd #. Because our D is not home yet (and was supposed to be home hours ago and I had no idea where she was or who she was with), he called the number back and found that it came from a calling card.

This sent me into a bit of a panic after I hung up, and I could tell he was worried, too. About 5 minutes ago, our D called S's phone (she never calls mine--her way of avoiding). I didn't know it was her until S hung up. She's with two girls and said she'd be home tonight--didn't leave last names or #'s and of course S didn't try and get them. (This child is only 14--it's 11:30pm here--she's a devil to deal with! I welcome all ideas for her as well!!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Long story short, once I did hear from her, I placed a courtesy call to H to let him know the call wasn't from her and that she's okay. Because he called me out of concern, I felt it was only fair to let him know once I found out.

THIS is why I'd like to have TXT msg, because at least when this stupid type of thing comes up, we could correspond that way and not have to speak!! (Not frustrated with you...frustrated with DD!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

So, yes I'm okay, but feeling kind of crappy because of what happened so soon (though it was abnormal circumstances). Club me with the 2x4, and help me to do better in panic mode....

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Well, now he knows you don't mean a word of it, LL, because you flunked the first test. And all this over an unidentified call on his cell phone. Big deal. I just don't know what to tell you. If he is that worried about his daughter, he can move home, THAT IS THE POINT.

If you refuse to do no contact, don't waste your time with Plan B.

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Okay ML, let me tell you how long it took to break the no contact rule. He called me just a little while ago, very concerned because there was an missed call on his cell from an odd #. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, the responsibility for no contact falls on YOU. So when your H calls the house, have the kids answer. If they are not there, let it roll over to the answering machine.

Now, I realize that EVERYTHING in an sick, dysfunctional alcoholic home IS an emergency because everyone is always whipped up into a frenzy, but you are just going to have to learn the DIFFERENCE. An unidentified # on a cell phone IS NOT AN EMERGENCY.

Your daughter is 14 years old and knows your phone # and knows what time she is supposed to be home. If she breaks her curfews, ground her [censored]. But don't break your no contact rule.

If your H persists in testing you, as he did last night, then don't answer the phone when he calls. Otherwise, you are just wasting your time. Plan B is not about changing the mode of communication, but about stopping communication. That is why it is called NO CONTACT.

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sent me into a bit of a panic after I hung up, and I could tell he was worried, too. About 5 minutes ago, our D called S's phone (she never calls mine--her way of avoiding). I didn't know it was her until S hung up. She's with two girls and said she'd be home tonight--didn't leave last names or #'s and of course S didn't try and get them. (This child is only 14--it's 11:30pm here--she's a devil to deal with! I welcome all ideas for her as well!!).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ll,

Don't get so caught up in all the drama with your WS that you forget about the well being of your kids along the way.

Gonna ask some rhetorical questions...

Why is she allowed out so late at night?

Why is she allowed to be out period since she has been expelled from HS and is attending an alternative school?

Why is your son allowed to play poker at your home with the guys...and he is only 17??? You do realize that compulsive gambling is running rampant among High School and College age boys....don't you? You really need to check on this....you have mentioned it three different times now. It is not far fetched to think that there might already be a problem in the making. Addictions are addictions...whether it be alcohol...sexual...gambling...drugs.

If I am seeing problems (or potential problems) that are NOT there...I do apologize.

I feel like I need to point out that the kids cannot be placed on the back burner. You are going to have to find a way to balance it out...don't forget about your kids along the way.

JMHO
committed

Lordslady -

I love you, lady, I do.

I was going to post along the same lines as Committed, although he/she did it much better (I have to be careful, because I referred to ARK as a man once, and was told she is a girl, a girlie-girl, even <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

Being around kids A LOT, I am beginning to realize from your posts that it is not just your WH you are unable to set and stick-to boundaries.

I hope I do not offend any men by saying this, but LL, you will learn SO MUCH about your children and your WH if you took a parenting class for wayward teens.

These classes are normally fairly inexpensive, mostly just pays for the book and/or workbook. You can find them at your community center, and most likely at your D alternative school.

I have to say that I think your head is in the wrong place right now. Your WH is an adult and you have given him Plan B letter, and you need to put him out of your mind. His choices are his alone. He knows what he has to do to come home, and he has some work to do.

HOWEVER, your kids are not adults. And I'm telling you, you are coming to the point of no-return with them. You need to become involved in what THEY are doing. Do they go to al-anon meetings? Have you taken parenting classes? Are they involved in a good youth ministry program at your church?

THEY should not be making YOU run around like a chicken-with-your-head-cut-off. You are the parent! Good grief. I don't know what else to tell you. You need to be a mother first. Mother first. Mother first.

Post back to me if you are interested in helping your children. I will travel down this path with you. I will do whatever I can to help you.

Take focus off WH. Put focus on children. Children. Children. Children.

Love, Amy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong>
I was going to post along the same lines as Committed, although he/she did it much better (I have to be careful, because I referred to ARK as a man once, and was told she is a girl, a girlie-girl, even <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

Take focus off WH. Put focus on children. Children. Children. Children.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be She! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Some names on here are hard to tell the gender...that's why I am clarifying. Girl....ALL girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Chanting....

Children.....Children........Focus.......Focus....

committed

Nice, to meet you, Committed girl. All girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And we are chanting still, LL,

Children children

focus focus

children children

focus focus

Come on, say it with us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love you LL! You know I do! We belong to I-states! We are practically sisters in that way!

Amy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nice, to meet you, Committed girl. All girl. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nice to meet you too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Focus on the Children...Focus on the Children...

committed

Keep chanting.... Drill it into my head... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for the boy, NO gambling addictions to worry about. They've all just gotten into this world poker tour stuff on tv and theres a group of them who hang out and play at each other's houses. It's a $2 buy in. Sometimes they decide to forget the $ and just dole out chips, just for the fun of playing. The group my son hangs with, could probably be classified as the "nerds" of the class (although popular nerds).

They're the class brains. They're mostly in A/P classes and all that stuff. My S and one of the others started a Rubic's cube club a while back. S can solve a cube in right around 1 minute.

So settle down on them. Other than they're 17/18 yr old boys and think for the most part with the wrong area, they're pretty respectable.

D is a different story. She's been a problem for years. Why was she allowed to go to the mall? Two reasons--1) because she's functioning much better in the alternative HS than she did in the other one, so a bit of a reward for success, and 2) because I'm stupid and gullible.

She was supposed to call at 8pm--not arrive home at midnight! She does exactly what she wants, and I have yet to figure out how to ground her, because she's home from school by 3:30 and can get rides with friends, and I'm not home until several hours later. Therein lies the problem.
Zero respect from her. Like I said, Daddy's little girl. I love her dearly, and she has a heart of gold underneath it all, but when she hit puberty her moods changed big time. And then when she hit high school and found lots of people with drivers licenses, it went totally downhill. She's never done well in school--the ADHD and an inability to find a med that really works has made it tough. And the further she's gotten behind, the more she's wanted to just ignore school.

She was expelled because she was truant all the time. Granted, I took her to school and watched her walk in the building each and every day. But after she got there, she'd disappear from a class and then just basically roam the halls with friends. The school told me they dont' have the manpower to keep an eye on her, and she had a problem with the way they presented authority, and they booted her. She seems to fit in well at the alternative school (even though she was initially reluctant) and it's small (60 kids) so there's a lot of individual attention.

So like I said, keep chanting. I'm going to have a tough time with this. Even though I know it's no contact, and I shut my cell phone off all last night and until I got to work this morning, a little part of me was wishing there'd be a message from WH on it. Of course there wasn't, and that's the way it's supposed to be, but it makes me sad. The whole deal does.

LL

What Med worked the best for your DD? Is she taking anything now? I would suggest getting her back on SOMETHING. There are some new meds out there...some oare better than others. Use what works, but get her on it. She is going down a dangerous road.

Spend some time with her...take her out to eat, just the two of you. Take her out of town for the weekend. Invite her to ask questions about life, and talk some about your feelings and worries about her. Keep it short. DON'T LECTURE!!! In your daughters case it is just wasted breath. She will tune you out within the first sentence of she thinks a lecture is coming. Sit down and talk about rules of the house and consequences, but POJA the rules. Make sure they are rules you both can live with, or nothing gets happens until there are rules. Make sure there are consequences and privileges worked into the rules so you both are clear. Then no more lectures, she breaks a rule, she suffers consequences, it's her choice, she does well, she gets a privilege.

Lastly, compliment, compliment, compliment, kids THRIVE on praise, and when they hit puberty we only seem to criticize them. This is the time in their life they are most unsure of themselves and need praise.

Have you taken parenting classes???

There are tried and proved techniques to help children like your daughter.

You sitting back shaking your head at the situation will do nothing to protect her and help her. She needs guidance. She need boundaries. That is what all children crave.

Especially the ones that have none. Can you imagine how frightening it would be to be 14 years old, and know that you can get away with anything? That nothing is off limits?

You need to seek help. I'm pretty sure the alternative school would have much information for you. They want you as proactive as possible, because if you reinforce at home what they do at school, your daughter will be that much more successful.

So, I ask you again LL, have you sought out help for you and for her? Education?

Amy

Okay...long one...kid history:

Meds - Ritalin didn't work. Concerta didn't work. Adderall worked a little on settling her down, but didn't seem to work much for focus and successful schoolwork.

As she's become a teen, the hyperactivity part has lessened a lot, but she's still out in la-la land most of the time, and now she's so behind on all the basic concepts in school, she was set up for failure. Also, the ADHD has caused problems because she doesn't do well thinking through the consequences of her actions. When she was little, this translated into several broken bones. It is more worrisome now because there are so many things she could be prompted to try that are dangerous, and she doesn't think into the future.

And I agree, she needs boundaries. Here is where the problem lies--and though everyone I know agrees I have to do something, no one can tell me what to do:

She gets home from school between 3-3:30pm. I get home from work on a good day around 6:30pm. Now it's far later, but this should be fairly temporary. During that time, no matter what I threaten to do or to take away, if she can get ahold of a friend, she leaves. Once she's gone, she decides when she will come home, no matter what I've set down as a rule.

Because she hangs out some at our local mall, she meets people from all over the city, not just her school district. So she may call and leave a message that says, "Hi, I'm with Tina. I'll be home later." I have no idea who Tina is, what her last name is, nor what her phone number is unless she calls on my line (has caller ID) or it's the last call on S's line where I can *69 and get it. It's hard to hunt Tina down in a metro area of 400,000+ people. So I sit home and wait, and stew, and then of course lecture her when she gets home (and yep, she shuts me right out).

I do try to do things with her like taking her out to eat, and sometimes if she's in a good mood, she'll go out with me. Most of the time, she doesn't want to. I've suggested different crafts--there's sort of a cool place not far from us where you can glaze your own pottery piece. I think that would be fund--she says it's dumb. She won't play board games with S and me.

She's basically very social, and she wants to spend 100% of the time hanging out with her friends.

So...any ideas on that leaving before I get home problem?

No, I haven't taken parenting classes. And admittedly, I haven't even checked into them. I'm sure somewhere they're offered. I was taking her to a therapist from a place that came highly recommended by several Dr's, and her therapist specialized in defiant children/teens. She was great--I liked her, but even she wasn't able to crack DD. She told me last time we were there (2 wks ago) that maybe we should hold off and not do any more sessions until we gave the alternative HS a shot, because right now she wasn't getting anywhere with her.

Oh, and as for the meds, we'd like to try her on Strattera. It's the newest one out there, I think, and isn't a stimulant like all the others. We tried it a year ago, and although we thought she was taking them, we'd find pills later on the driveway, in the yard, in the bottoms of cups, broken up in wastebaskets, etc. She evidentally put them in her mouth with me standing right there, and then spit it out a few minutes later. She doesn't want to take anything, and she said it made her stomach hurt. (If she were one of my Lab's, I'd just grab her by the jaws, pull her mouth open, and jam the pill down her throat--they're used to that--but somehow it just doesn't work the same with a 14-yr-old human.)

As you may have determined, one of the factors that my WH has mentioned put a lot of stress on our marriage (even before the A) is DD and her lack of respect for anyone. And since he and she are so much alike, she was a Daddy's girl when she was little, but once she started developing her independence, and then hit her teens, they went at each other's throats, because neither of them can deal with authority and they both wanted to be the one who was controlling the situation.

-------------------------------
Update on all else. Normally it wasn't hard to go through the day and not talk to WH, but now that I did the Plan B letter, I'm going NUTS tonight. I want SO bad to hear his voice, to know he's okay. It's like if you have an itch and can't scratch it, it makes it that much worse. All I can think about are the good things about him right now, and I miss them....

How are ya doing tonight, hon? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ML,

I go between being okay and being very panicked. It's hard because before, even if it might not have been a good call, I could pick up the voice, call for whatever reason and just hear his voice. Gave me some strange peace before I went to sleep.

No I don't know where he is, what he's doing (not that I did before), can't call to hear his voice. I almost drove by his apartment on the way home tonight just to see if his truck was in the parking lot. It's been a long time since I've driven around to try and find him. I did force myself to pass his exit on the freeway, because I knew if I went and the truck was gone (which it likely was), I'd just feel that much worse.

We're supposed to have some unseasonably warm days coming up (which for up hear means highs around 50), so I know he'll have the Harley out riding. I'm envious--it'll be her on instead of me. And I'm worried--after he nearly lost his life on a motorcycle 2 years ago, I'm very frightened now that he's drinking again and getting on them. I don't know why I worry. I couldn't protect him even if I was still in contact, but it still is really bothering me. I'd almost pray for a blizzard even though I hate it, just to keep him off the bike a while longer.

Anyway, hangin' in there. If you read my kid post from above, DD is gone AGAIN tonight with no calls except one while I was at work letting me know she was headed for the mall.

Again, mall closes at 9 so 2 hours later, she's still out because for her tomorrow isn't a school day.

S and friends are pokering again at our house tonight, though it's a no-money, chips-only game tonight. I was invited to play with them (now that he's almost 18, he thinks I'm okay again) but I was late arriving home so didn't butt in mid-stream. Told him maybe next time.

I'm going to try and go to bed and to sleep now. I'm sure the weekend is going to be the hardest for me. They are anyway, even when we were calling, because WH spent them with OW, but he'd at least call me most days. Now it's going to be REALLY lonely.

I'm praying a lot for him and for our marriage. Just want hope...

Well, it sounds like you did great the first night. It will get easier as time goes on, so just hang in there, ok? You are doing great.

Now, what are you going to do with this girl?? yikes!

And a PS... Remember mutual "friends"? I evidentally really ticked off the wife with our last IM a few nights ago. She emailed a very snotty email to me today saying I was going about things all wrong but she wished me the best, however it turned out (with an implied tone that I could kiss it goodbye).

I emailed back, slightly more polite, but not in any form that would encourage continued contact with her--that I thought given the circumstances and the subject matter last night, that things had ended on a decent note, considering he gave me a very strong hug, a kiss and told me he loved me before he left the house.

I hate to burn bridges with friends. I don't have many, but in this case, at this point anyway, I think this friendship is causing more harm than good since we so adamantly disagree.

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

I hate to burn bridges with friends. I don't have many, but in this case, at this point anyway, I think this friendship is causing more harm than good since we so adamantly disagree. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are lots of good women out there who will really be your friend and support you in PRODUCTIVE endeavors, not DESTRUCTIVE endeavors. Friends don't kick friends down the stairs. I mean, my gosh, this woman plays host to the OW!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> With friends like that, who needs enemies? You are worth ALOT MORE THAN THAT!!