But do you think it would be wrong to make her an appointment at like a nail place to get her nails done? She usually likes this and it makes her feel pretty.

Do it!

The getting in to MC is a problem at the moment. Like I said, she isn't ready yet. Still in the withdraw stage and still very angry and hurt. I asked if she contacted DHS yet to check on insurance. She hasn't had a chance yet. I'm going to call around tomorrow and see how much conseling is going to be. We both need to be in it. And I have to get another job. There wasn't enough money to go around(Maybe if I was better at hanging onto it better) before so I have to increase it somehow now.

I'm trying to get my 'main' job under control now too. I've let it get way out of hand. I haven't been taking care of ANYTHING. I can pull that around if I buckle down though.

I'm going to get a gift certificate tomorrow for the nails though. I think that will make her feel better and help get her out of the house.

Lastnight was a really hard night. We had a talk and I learn more of how inconsiderate I was. I still can't believe how blind I have been and still am.

I had a few 'fog' moments yesterday. Not about the A, but about my feelings. I built up alot of resentment toward her for being on the internet so much. I had even read the Internet affairs article. I was finally able to put the pieces together. *I* wasn't providing her EN. I also remembered that going into the relationship she had a LOT of selfrespect. She didn't sleep with just anyone. We weren't physical for like a month+. I wasn't used to that. In the back of my mind I was a 'stud'(Whoa, how stupid is that), it was about me, not the lack of selfrespect that me and my other partners had.

It's a rollercoaster right now. If you asked me how the day went at around 8:00 lastnight I would have said great! If you had asked at 12:00-1:00 I would have said pretty bad. Now I don't know.

We are both feeling lonely(I have no right to because I'm the one that made the preverbal bed). And I can see how much she is hurting.. Emotionally and physically.. It's really hard for me not to give her a hug or rub her shoulders.. With that in mind I'd like to lay out a little of what happened. I'm having a hard time working through this and I still not sure what I should have done....

I bummed a couple of cigerates off of her lastnight while we were talking and she was close to running out. So I told her I'd get her some. She was also out of IB for her stress headache and I said I'd pick that up too.. Well, While I was at the store I decided to get her a cpl of candybars(I can't remember the difference between a 3 musketter and a milkyway). I brought everything over to her and we talked in the doorway a little while. I was basiclly being a little cute with the candybars telling her that everyone loved chocolate and I thought she might appreciate some. She's working on her weight some and I told her that it was okay to just take a piece then I'd keep the rest over at my mom and dad's house. It would be a good value that way. She wouldn't have to worry about eating too much of it and I wouldn't have to worry about getting another. It would even be quicker if she did want some that way.. You know what I mean, I was being silly. Well, she liked that. I was having a hard time keeping my hands to myself and not rubbing her neck because I could plainly see she needed it massaged. I told her I was going to stay for 2 more minutes but after that I was going to have to leave because I didn't have enough willpower to keep from doing it(BTW: This was never something sexual in mind). A few minutes later I told her I needed to go because my time was up. And she told me she hadn't told me to leave.

So, I proceed to rub her neck and shoulders. She finally shut the door and made a lil fun of me for leaving it open(still just right inside the doorway) and then she took me into the bedroom. I started rubbing her back for her and then she started cuddling up to me. I wasn't in the bed, I was on my knees in the floor.. I could tell where this was headed at that point but still wasn't sure.. I keeped all my clothes on except my shoes and got in bed and continued rubbing her back. She kept trying to kiss me and I wasn't letting her and kept telling her no. It finally started getting to me and I asked her if this was what she really wanted. She moaned yes and I broke it off a few more times while asking her the same question. I hadn't been doing anything to try and turn her on. I was just trying to rub her back and make her a feel a little better. Well, I think you all can imagine what happened next, I asked if she really wanted to do this a few more times though. Then we made some small talk and I was cuddling with her and forgot to get a smoke(I'm a chain smoker, so that's very odd for me) and was just into cuddling up with her. She told me she really liked that. She started to cry a few times afterward and I told her it was okay.. But she pushed it back down and cuddled somemore. We finally fell asleep while I rubbed her back. Needless to say this morning has been really confussing. She hasn't really talked to me alot about any thing that happened lastnight. I believe she is really weirded out by the whole thing. And I am too... I just don't know how to take things.. I don't even know if I done the right thing. I was attracted to her and wanted to, but I didn't want to.. Okay, there is some fuzzy logic for ya... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I didn't want it for me. I was torn between is this something that she really wants and is it right... She tried to puff my ego a little afterwards(I finally don't need it! yay! It means very little to me now) but I'm so confussed. I've tried to make a few advances with her(Non-sexual). Like I asked if she would like to go to lunch with me today. She said she doesn't know. I'll have to wait on that one.

I'm becoming really hopeful. I'm afraid I'm being stupid and reading alot more into this than what there really was.

Any comments about this would be appreciated. I don't trust my judgement about this at all.

Okay, I've been talking to her through IM's. She doesn't want to go to lunch with me because she is having a hard time defining the lines of friends between us. And the lunch thing is feels like a date.

/pity party on
My stomuch is trying to come out my throat.
/pity party off

I'm bring some stuff home for her and d to eat. Hopefully everything will go smooth..

I think that's very sweet... I wish my WH were so thougtful... maybe after his fog lifts...

Hey why don't you suggest lunch as friends... she pays her way and you pay yours... I do that all the time with my friends that's not a date... that's lunch. Tell her if she still really nervous about it... you'll let her chip in for the Supersize Fries... LOL. But seriously, if she's feeling unsure don't plan to do lunch someplace fancy... do it at KFC, MCdonald's, BK, DQ, you know think of places you and a buddy would go together... it will help her if she just thinks it like a casual thing, no pressure.

If she still doesn't want to do lunch... suggest just going for icecream or a piece of pie and coffee. That's not a date.... that's two friends grabbing a dessert... my best friend (who is a F) and I do the icecream thing after my a bad day... it's stress relief for us.

Worth a shot anyway... good luck.

OH and the spa or nail thing would be a great thing to do...

Hey you could spring for a massage... and offer to keep the kids while she goes. The massage... tell her you saw it and thought of your "moment" the other day.

Good Luck

Well, I kind of messed the nail thing up. It actually turned into hair. She feels like her hair looks 'skunkish'. I think it's attractive but she just said I liked trashy women(I'm not sure if that's a well deserved jab or a funny). Anyway, I stopped by the mall and went to see one of her old school friends that works at the beauty salon she goes too and got gift certif. But here is where I messed up. I told her I had a surprise for her and it involved going out for awhile without the kids or ME. She started asking a lot of question and I finally told her to be ready tomorrow(Today) when I got off of work. Stupid me wasn't thinking that women hair cutting/styling/colouring involved alot of time. If I get a hair cut it takes 20 minutes if that long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Needless to say I got everything she needs to go get her hair done but didn't make an appointment. She later pointed this out to me. And made a comment that if I had been paying attention to her over the period of our marriage that I would have remembered how long it takes. I replied that if I had been paying attention that she would have been able to get it done a lot more and then I would remember(read: Would have met one of her EN).

I really understand how long it takes for some of these things but I'm exhasted and my brain isn't working too well.

I ended up figuring everything out right before I left when her friend gave me her business card with hours on it. I was like DUH! She can't just come in here anytime she wants like I could.

Come to think about it I should have probably ran down to the nail place and got a gift cert from there too. THAT she could have done today.

Well, when I got home I gave her the certs and she asked me how come I got so much. Hey, atleast I'm smart enough to ask and get a good idea of how much it costs. Then I got a little more for her to get some special shampoos she likes.

Tonight I'm planning on talking to a friend(Internet buddy) for awhile. He can usually get me calmed down. I'm having a really hard time with guilt. Or I guess I should say keeping a positive additude. It's right and I need to feel guilt, but I need to use it as modivation not pity parties. But it's consuming sometimes. The only thing I can think of is how much I messed up. Then eventually I'll calm down a little and try to think of things I can do to make her feel better/make life easier for her.

I called her mom day before yesterday(I *think*) and luckly she is coming to the area this weekend. After talking to her mom I can see where she gets some of her strength from. I also offered to let her or her husband beat the snot out of me. But I'd take a week off from work so we could do it at the beginning of the week so I wouldn't be asked so many questions when I got back. But back to my point I'm going to try to go over there tomorrow evening and help her clean house. I think that would be something that we could do together and help her out in an area she really needs(Mother will be there Sat). I'm also going to offer to watch the kids part of the time her mom is over there. Letting her mom be around the kids for awhile and still letting her have some quality time.

But the evening wasn't a complete loss to her. I watched the kids for awhile so she could go to Wal-Mart. The cultural mecca of our small town <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But I think she had fun. She said it was alot different[Not having me or the kids].

Anyway, I'm ready to fall down. Thanks for the comments all. If anyone needs any.. uhemmm.. Physical help with WH let me know. Maybe we can beat some sense into each other.

Oh Hell where do I sign up for my WH beating session... LOL

He needs like a good beat some sense into his fogged over brain beating.

I think what you did is sweet... and you know it will be one of those tales you can tell everyone (how silly men are jokes) when you do finally get back together and can laugh at it all.

I am very sure she is considering the thought and not the oversight... I wouldn't mind a bit.... not a bit... and I think it's cute the way you tossed in the EN things on her... very good!!!

You done good BCAM.... atta boy!!!

Well, lastnight helped a little bit I think. After taking the kids home I gave her a hug and left. It was hard for me to just leave and not try to talk to her but I did it. I think an evenings rest will do us good. I ended up going home(mom and dad's) and I finally got around to eating something. Later on I had a long talk with my friend. He really is a friend(Don't abuse yourself over it, do something about it). And it helped to get a lot of stuff off my chest. I'm trying to deal with my side of some of OUR issues now. Hehe- It's amazing how everything is interconnected, or should be anyway. Of course I can't really work on our issues alone but I can work out why some of the things happened that did.

There is going to be atleast a few good things come out of this awful experence. My children are going to have a better father. If my wife can forgive me she'll have a better husband. If she doesn't forgive me I'll do the best I can to be a better friend. And when I sit back and think of myself as being a good man, I really will be.

I also figured out something me and her both need to learn/know. If you don't have enough sleep you can't be there for anyone else! I was short with the kids lastnight and started thinking about WHY I was short with them. It wasn't because they were really acting any different than usual, I was tired. I know alot of you all out there are thinking DUH! But I really didn't put the two together.. lol..

Ohh, I finally figured out what LB was. I had read the article on love busters but I REALLY am slow. So going forward you guys might want to spell things out for me that are simple for you(I think I understand all the abbr now).

*thinks he hears a woman snickering somewhere thinking to herself "Aren't all men like that?"*

LOL


As always, thanks for your support and guidence.

Dear Becoming,

You are on the right road. I guess the experience is different for everyone. My husband had an ephipany moment where he realized the damage he had done for years...he was a serial cheater with a child from one of his ONS. I am writing to you because the attitude you are expressing is the attitude that my husband developed....the attitude that saved our marriage. He is on a constat pursuit now to redeem our marriage. I truly believe that even if we were to divorce my husband would still be completely devoted to my well-being. I am not saying that because I think he should be some sort of emotional slave to me but I believe now in his change. He stole years from me and took everything I had...then all of a sudden he realized it. Although we struggle, he is now the man he always should have been.

I wish you the best, it won't be easy but it will be worth it.

BTW, the issue of sex is difficult, allowing her to take the lead is best. It may be hard to understnd but sometimes the BS needs to prove to themselves that they are still attractive to their spouse. After my husband moved back in to the house, he insisted on sleeping on the floor because he did not feel worthy to sleep in the bed, at first I thought is was for the best but over time I needed to reassure myself that I was his wife. I deserved to have sex with him, just as I deserved honesty, affection, respect, and love...I was his wife. At least that is the way I felt.

I wish you well.

ayslyne

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: ayslyne ]</small>

Bravo!!!!

You're wife will be very glad when she sees what she is getting... the new and improved you!!!

It may take time, but she will see...

Are you free for peer tutoring b/c my WH could use some lessons!!!!

One of my biggest personal flaws is that I'm a sprinter not a runner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm working VERY hard on that. But I can tell I've been sprinting hard because I'm getting out of breath(Read: I feel like banging my head on the wall today).

We had a pretty good talk tonight. She admits I look at things WAY differently now. I think Ayslyne is right on by camparing me to her WH. I used to say(and feel) like I wouldn't only be riding the bus to hell, but I'd be driving it. I feel better now. Not because I got it out but because I'm doing something about it. It's a really bad rollercoster, I have no worries about getting back on it. I don't know if I'll ever be able to think about being with another person again. Not as in an affair. But my wife is going to go ahead with the D. She says she can't move forward without doing that. And that she is going to get on with her life. But she stated she feels the same way as me on one thing though. That we are really bonded as soulmates. We will always be in each others lives(Even if we didn't have kids) and that we'll either be married again or be best friends.

And I found out a little bit about the other night. It was just sex to her. She felt lonely and(Crude statement coming up) simply horny. I didn't feel at all right about it, I did it to meet one of her EN(In my mind and in reality also I guess) but I felt like a peice of meat. She said I was available and she didn't feel like looking(Ouch!). My mind is already trying to justify part of the A based off the fact that casual sex ISN'T out of the question for her(Stupid I know and I'm fighting it down). Maybe she isn't being truthful with me though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I know the A was my fault, please don't think I'm confused about that. But I guess I'm try to qualify it. I'm lonely and depressed but I can't be with the one person that would make me feel better because I hurt them so bad. It's a hard thing to live with....

I'm mad at the world and want to be self-destructive.

And now that I've cried a little, I'm done with the pity party for the moment.

I tried to help her and her mom with thier relationship a little today(Meddling?) She was afraid she wasn't going to be able to spend much time with her mom(Out of state) that is coming in this weekend. Well, I arranged the nail/pedacure thing for both of them after explaining it a little to her mom. Her mom also has alot of stress at the moment(Maybe a good value for both of them). I'm hoping they will start talking more openly. I'd really like to try and help them with that but It's not really my place and I'm not the best person for that(DUH). Still keep thinking about it though.

I think I'm going to start a new thread with a story picture. I heard about it on the radio today.

Anyway, someone hit me with a reality check pls.

heavenlee30, I'd be more than happy to talk to your WH. I don't know if anything I can say will help or not, but I'll try. One thing about myself that I still believe in is that I like helping people. But if you can't tell by my post I'm a little neurotic at the momemnt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have him send me an email and we'll try to work something out. bandog423 at yahoo dot com. Or you can try sending IM's through out the day to the same account if you have YIM and we'll work something out that way(SPAM catcher is ebil sometimes).

To be honest, if anyone feels that I can help with that, please do the same.

Dear Becoming,

Don't believe the "it was just about sex" line. That is a common reaction a BS has to intimate contact with their FWS before they have come to terms with the state of the relationship...the tears she shed is proof of that. As a BS I also tried to convince myself that I could be detached. It is about selfpreservation. If the sex doesn't mean anything, if the other person doesn't mean anything it can't hurt me. Believe me she is trying to convince herself as much as she is you that it is meaningless. It also could be an attempt to share her pain with you.

My favorite detachment device was "Do whatever you want...I don't care" I still revert to it when I am feeling especially vulnerable. It keeps me detached when I am fearful. I say it a lot less now. But I still need to feel safe. Apathy insulated me. Continue you on your path. It is the best way for you and her.

ayslyne

BTW invest in the patch or nicorette...that chain smoking cannot be good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I can understand that. And I do share her pain. She deserves nothing less.

She and her mother went out today. It didn't happen quite like I had hoped but they did get to talk some. So that's cool. I'm taking the kids over to her aunts house tonight. I'm a little afraid.

Anyway, I need to yank up on it. I'll try to post an update later tonight.

becomingaman,

Sounds like you're doing a real good job so far. Keep it up!! She's scared. She's afraid to trust you, afraid this "new you" won't last.

Don't put off checking on that counselor and if she refuses to go,,go alone! Are you aware they offer counseling on this site? Dr Harley has phone counseling available Counseling Center You might check with your insurance to see if they will cover it, although many policies won't. IF they do not, ask them for a list of the counselors in your area that they will cover. From that list call several and ask them if they specialize in marital recovery and if they are familiar with the Marriage Builders concepts. Interview them. Decide prior to calling exactly what YOU (and hopefully your W) want in your counselor and decide, based on your phone interviews. This is important. Don't just accept the first one that returns your call.

Well, tonight was a good night. Up until it was time to say goodbye to her. After we took the kids to her aunts house we went to the mall and she did some shopping. She was getting some clothes. Most of the time all I could think of was she is getting these to look nice for someone else. She told me she is going to start dating again after the D. She is preparing. I forced most of the bad feelings down and went on. We went out to eat and she told me she was going to NC next month to go with a friend(s) to a play. Him and his wife is throwing a party then too. We got home and it was weird. I wanted to stay with her and cuddle(I'm feeling really lonely). I didn't even want to have sex just cuddle. When I was about to leave we hugged for awhile and started kissing a lot. She told me I had better go, and that I should know that she really wanted me a lot(Sexually).

Later when I got back to where I'm staying I sent her an IM. I told her I wanted her, as my wife, and for us to be happy together. This didn't go over to well. She reminded me she has made up her mind and will not change it. The only thing that has changed is that she knows I will be a part of her life is some copacity<sp>.

/pity party
I'm ready to beat my head against the wall. The three biggest crisis of my life have been when me and my wife have seperated. I've wanted nothing more to come home to her and everything be good and us be happy. I feel we are soulmates(She agrees) but our timing is screwed. I feel the same strong need for affection right now that caused me to have the A's. It was a need for her affection not anyone elses. The only freakin thing was I was trying to substutite her. That was wrong of me to do to them(BS and OW). And me.... The first even told me that. And I was like no(I'm a know it all. Stupid!). And I really believed that at the time(again, STUPID!).......
/pity party off

The big difference is that now I have a clue and know better. Sex won't make me feel better. Pretending someone else is her won't make me feel better. The only thing that will make me feel better is being a better person. And I'm having a really hard time consentrating on that. I'll get it right sometime. Friend of mine told me to write the word TIME on the bottem of my left hand. That would remind me when ever I look at my watch to remember things will take time. Wonder if I should get a tattoo?

Goodnight everyone

BAM,

I think your wife does care... and trust me as a BS it isn't just the sex. The sex proves how attractive, desirable, and sexy she is.... her self-esteem in these areas is probably very very low after the A. I know mine are... and I often mention dating other people just to see how my WH would react if I started seeing other people. I almost want to see if he gets jealous and it's a way to over and over again reaffirm in my mind that someone would find me desirable. Sounds to me after reading most of your thread what she needs is a lot of building up of her self esteem. In a way, I am sure she feels that she caused the A (I know I do with my WH), and that if she were more sexy, more attractive, more whatever that you wouldn't have had the A. I just don't think she doesn't care... the talk of D, is also probably a way to preserve what little self-esteem she has left. She needs a lot of holding and affection and needs to feel important. Give her time she will see and she's enjoying your suffering for a bit.... she won't make you pay forever.

Thanks for the offer, I will definitely keep that in mind... but I don't think my WH will ever be able to do everything you are doing for your W.

Sorry for all the moaning. The fact is that I need to move on with my life(Without any relationships) and use this time constructively. That has been a huge problem of mine. Using time constructively. If I would have done that in the marriage I doubt I would be here today(Althought I think this site is great even if your marriage isn't in trouble). Then if we get back together she would have a better person. But sometimes it's hard to keep the target in site.

The heat is on high and the water comes to a boil fast. I need to vent a lot right now because of all the high feels/tension. I appreciate you guys letting me do that. Getting my feeling writen out helps.

Anyway, it's time I get ready for church. First time I've been in many years(I can't remember the last time I stepped into one). Thanks for the support.