Oh yes, you are doing the right thing!!!!!

His manipulation feels almost pathological to me. That e-mail of his, in response to yours ( which I thought was excellent!) literally gave me the creeps. This man has a lot of work to do heavenlee. Expect this to take some time. Stability for the kids is what matters most.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heavenlee30:
<strong> So he sent me that email and I said tell me how you feel about that... and he just said like what I think and feels matters....

Is this a ploy on her part? Did she see the fog loosening like I did and this is her response. What should I say or do?

I can't count on that as NC right? HELP please I am so lost at this moment... because it's not at all what I expected. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's still waffling .... wait 24 to 48 hours before you say anything with certainty.

pep

Okay I probably just Lovebusted.... but not too badly I don't think... I hope...

It wasn't yelling or screaming or anything.... but I let an email get carried away from me in response to an email he sent and a phone call in which he ranted to me for over 20 minutes about my tv, my house, my garage, my toilet (yes... his toilet) Ummmm wonder what he'd do if I gave him what he wanted... gave him his stupid divorce and let some other man watch his tv, and take a dump in his toilet.... SHEESH wonder what he would think then...

No that's not the LB and I didn't say that... but after he ranted and raved... I said you still don't see the big picture I pray God opens your heart to see it... and he said the f and the u... and hung up.

I was reeling and zipped off an email... I shoulda counted to 10 to just let it go... it wasn't bad... it was just heavy on the guilt...

His email plus the phone call and a couple of other choice emails which are basically the same kind of idea so I'm not going to post them

You have finally succeeded in sucking that last bit of life out of me that I had. You should be pleased, you won. You beat me down to the point I cant do it any longer. You win you are the winner. Your right you never lose. You never give up until you have what you want. I just hope you end up being happy with your victory.

My email which I hope wasn't too bad a Love buster...

I haven't won... neither have you.... and neither have our children. Noone here wins... noone.... I am not trying to beat you up... don't you understand that unless we fix our problems I lose, you lose, the kids lose. i could let you move in here... I could let our lives go right back to where they were before your affair. I could live under those conditions...but you can't... you couldn't... you had an affair under those conditions. Under those conditions you made me face cancer alone... you made me have a surgery and be sick alone... under those conditions you made me face horrible horrible turmoil alone and added to my stress and despair... under those conditions you feel in love wiht someone else... I can't allow those things to happen to us again. I won't!!! I want to make sure my children never ever again have to hear their father tell them he doesn't love their mother... I don't ever again want my children to sit in an operating room scared to death their mother is going to die without their father by their side. I don't ever again want to feel less than human... less than special... or less than important. I don't ever want my children to witness their mother in a catatonic state where my entire existance and soul were torn from my heart. I don't ever again want my children to see their father in such turmoil that the pain is written all over his face. I don't want my children to ever again be scared that mommy and daddy aren't going to be together.... to do that we have to work together... we have to save our marriage. So you are right I won't give up.... It's not about what I need.... it's about what we ALL need.....

I would rather have you as a friend and move on than ever risk exposing my children to that again, to exposing myself to that again, to allowing you to feel unloved and unwanted again... the risks are simply to high.... this is the basic principle of everything that is important in life.

It's not the cars, the house, the toilet, the tv, the anything... it's the love, support, compassion, and empathy of yourself and other human beings.

This has made me a stronger person. No doubt about it.... I am more capable and stronger than I ever have been before. I am seeing this clear and for what it is... it's a wake up call... it's a chance to make our lives better. I am taking that chance to change.... I am taking a chance to grow and become a better person.... so that I can be a better wife and mother. I want that to be with you.... I want to be a better wife to you.... I love you.... and I will always love you.... and for that reason alone... I can't allow you to be less than you are.... or give you less than you deserve.

Was it too awful?

Sheesh he's so narcistic (sp)... anyone else think so.... it's my my my my... me me me me.... mine....mine....mine....mine.... it's like trying to talk to a two year old.

Heavenlee, good advice from everyone. Don't let him back if he isn't going to make a true committment. You do not derserve any less. If he loves you as he says does, he would be willing to sever the ties and make a committment. Until then, stick to your guns. I know how hard this is because you want him back so much. But he cannot cake eat!

You did good, Heavenlee. Maybe laid the guilt on, but sorry the truth hurts. If he's as miserable without his family as he seems to be, he'll decide to commit and have NC. I hope and pray that he does.

XOXO

Q.How do you know when it's time to go to Plan B?

A. When you can't stop LBing.

Thanks Nid... I pray too!!!


Thanks for all the support and advice... everyone

Mbyrd... I'm getting close for plan B then... because my urge to LB are coming closer and closer together...

Kinda like contractions and birth huh?

Thanks for the explanation of when it's time... too... because I'm wondering.

I guess I will need to start looking towards plan B

Your email was fine....

now be silent with him....

go pamper yourelf

Heavenlee,

Something you said your WS said makes me wonder if you are dealing with another problem several of us around here have run up against - passive/aggressiveness. Just the way he keeps telling you you're always right, it's all about you, blaming you....

That's not enough by itself to really say he's PA. But it's enough to at least make me wonder a little. There was a good discussion about it on one of the boards a while back, but I was having trouble finding that one. I did find this one,

PA thread

where several of us were talking about PA partners, and there's a link to a really good website about PA in there somewhere, if you go down far enough.

Just something you might want to look at. If he is PA, there's a book called "Living With the Passive Aggressive Man," and when I read it, I would have sworn that the author had been living with STBX and me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think your email was good.

If you're not ready for plan b yet...maybe you could at least stop participating with his back and forth horrible games designed to beat you down.

Kind of like when you tell your kids...if you don't have anything nice to say..don't say it...instead you could tell your H that you'd love to talk to him but only if he can be civil. If he doesn't refuse to respond...verbally or via email.

Just something else to think about.

Thanks guys....

I blew it all tonight. He wants to come home... and I feel so awful... but I don't think he loves me..... he says he does but nothing he does shows it. So I broke down into a sobbing babbling idiot.... I couldn't stop crying... I cried until I made myself sick.... he kept calling and I wouldn't talk to him... because everytime I did I just broke into sobbing hysterically. He says he can't believe how immature I'm acting. I just hurt so badly.... this hurts.... and I know I'm just asking for something he can't give me... love.

I am going to check out that thread... but I think it's time for me to go to plan b. Plan A is getting too painful, I have to heal... and he won't help me heal... maybe being away from him will help me heal.

Huggs all and thanks ever so much.

Anyone know any good threads to Plan b letters and strategies?

Bump!

I don't know where the "good stuff" is on plan B letters, but I know there are people here who do, so I wanted to bump this up for you.

Don't worry about the crying and breaking down - it's to be expected. And your WH is mad not at you for being a "baby, as he put it. He's mad at being confronted with the pain he has caused. After all, I guarantee that with the fog he is still in, he doesn't feel he has done anything wrong, and anything that makes him think he has makes him mad.

Be strong, and hopefully, some of the others here more familiar with B will come out and give some help. I never got to that point - didn't find this site until it was too late for all that.

Hi Heavenlee, are you okay? Call me if you need to. I had a break down too, this is so painful I know. I LB'd big time this morning, read my thread if you want. We're actually talking again. Just stay strong. Your H knows how you really feel - that you want him and to save your M, so maybe Plan B is next. I hope the experts respond here. Your going to lose your love for him if you remain in contact and he treats you so badly.

I'm here if you need me. I'm praying for you.

Here is something that may help:

Psalm 34 : 18 The Lord is close to the brokenhearted; He rescues those who are crushed in spirit.

Thanks Penguin,

I read the P/A thread... although it does have some of those characteristics... I do not think that's it... I am looking into narsistic (sp), because he just can't seem to ever see anything outside how it effects him. It seems like he only says and does what it takes to get what he wants, instead of having any empathy or compassion at all. Not only in regards to the A, but to everything in general.... he always acts like everyone is always doing everything to him... and cannot put people's actions into perspective to try and understand people's behavior. It's always that people do what they do because they hate him, or they are doing it to him... I don't know why this is... it seems even worse now in regards to this A.

On a positive note, the kids were gone last night and it was just he and I. We had a great time eating dinner and watching a movie... but then he just went into ignore *heavenlee* mode. He was so engrossed in the game on tv, golf on tv, and just the tv in general.. (I think he's really just obsessed with his big screen tv) that I once again felt non-existant and that's when I got over sensitive and just came upstairs and watched tv on my own.

We had talked over dinner about him coming home, it seems we both want him to come home... we just can't seem to agree on the terms. I guess I just want him to want it as badly as I do... but he says there are no guarantees. Well I know there aren't any guarantees... but I guess I want him to just for once feel something by seeing it outside himself... and if he is narsistic he never will be able to do that. SIGH!!!

It was a fairly good evening so LBing at the end... because I just told him exactly what I thought of his girlfriend. The more I think about it... the more I begin to wonder if they don't deserve each other... and I deserve something a hell of a lot better.

Thanks for the thoughts Nid... I will check out your thread... please call if you need to talk... they just don't see it... I don't think my WH will ever see it.

Heavenlee -

I think he does love you and wants to come home. But he is having trouble doing it, admitting he made a big mistake, etc.

I think you should stay in Plan A, but just get a little busier, and avoid him for awhile. Let him think about things. All this stuff he is doing is just testing you. Give it some time. Don't talk about relationship with him, then maybe you won't LB.

Thanks Believer... good advice. I'll try!!!

It will so help when I am able to go back to work... being home all day and not working is not helping me at all!!!

Hi Heavenlee. I think believer is right, just don't be so available to him, but continue to plan A. He needs to know that you are not desperate. Everyone keeps telling me that confidence will attract them back. I wish I could take my own advice. But, I am trying to let him be the one to make the call and he has been. Except I called him once last night because our S is sick and I thought he should know(that is what I told myself). Deep down I just wanted to hear his voice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Take care.

Hi - I just have to write a little here. It sounds like your dealing with the same pain I am dealing with, but I have NO small children so it's harder for you. My husband has set a date to come home and its driving me crazy, I am lefty in the forum if you want to see what I am going through. He is with her now, but I still see him because of the grandkids babysitting and all. But, it bothers me when I DON'T hear from him. I know they say don't see him or call him, but that's hard to do. I've read that he SHOULD see the pain he has caused. I think seeing my pain HAS helped bring him back. I feel in my case he needed to see my pain, no a tough cookie. I am me, and I will always be more, so I guess you have to gear it to each individual case. But, the seeing him does make me LOVE BUST alot, they are right in saying you should stay away because you tend to hate him as time goes on, and I feel that is true. I am still very angry at him making me wait till before Mar 2 to come home. I will NEVER EVER UNDERSTAND that. So, I feel your pain too, but all I can say is do what your heart tells you. And I don't know if there is an answer to " is he ready to come back." I still feel unsure about mine and he's coming home supposedly next week, but the only way I will tell is for us to try it together....... I wish you well, its a pain we should never have to go through...........

Here is the trick. You must get your own life, have your own activities, and rebuild your self-esteem. Being needy does not work. But of course you are needy. So you have to fill your needs some other way, because WS is not going to do it right now.

I was in a terrible state at first. Then I promised myself that I would take care of me. I started exercising, cleaning the house sparkling, organizing, rearranging, painting, detailing the car, joined a women's support group, working on spiritual program (The Purpose Driven Life), going out with friends, etc.

All of the above helped my self-esteem and gave me something to think about besides them. Then I started being grateful for the things I do have. It completely changed me. Now I know I will thrive, no matter what H does. And him? He is crashing and burning.