Lost-bird...
I am going to have to quit posting to you...if all my postings do is give you more things to "think" over.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can only assume that the OW would prefer more contact although there has been no direct mention of such

why assume...why not ASK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ummm can I ask why you call me...and what you get out of these calls...
face these elephants piling up around...

What do I receive from the calls? That's a point I still ponder

My friend you've been pondering that for quite some time...and still haven't answered...
get past the answer and decide do you want contact to continue...because if the answer is yes...the consequance is no wife...
it's in your hands....

Does it mean I am unsure of what I want or afraid to pursue it? Just thinking "out loud" here.

well I don't think it's either...I think you do what you are doing now because it is comfortable and known to you..
I think you have programmed your brain to mull and think and ponder...and it serves to avoid doing anything...

EVERY PERSON on this planet is somewhat unsure ESPECIALLY when dealing with relationships and feelings....eSPECIALLY in the wake of an affair..
ESPECIALLY with a spouse from this site who has probably done a lot of your and her work in fixing some of the pre-affair things...
you got it a lot easier than WS here trying to work with their BS...

you can't be AFRAID to pursue "it"...you haven't decided what "it" is yet to pursue..

is "it" wife and your marriage
is "it" OW
is "it" none of the above...

and all of the above are a gamble...but I am telling you over and over you should be more afraid of NOT choosing..
more afraid of ending up completely alone with only obssessive thought processes of
could of
would of
should of
might do
might say
might go...

you are going to become some weird guy in that apartment on the sixth floor..
who does nothing
goes nowhere
says nothing...

And so much of this is bs of your own creation...
action begins with one tiny step...not some monumental leap of "wife I'm coming home"
infact who ever she is she's way to smart to take you back as you are right now...and that's agood thing...because that will only assist you in becoming the person you want to be..

who ever she is believes in you more than you do right now...

...but it starts with something much smaller...
and each tiny step builds on each step...
that stupid saying a trip of a 1,000 miles begins with one step.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

you came here last week..
it's now a new week...
same as last week...except you may be THINKING even more now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
what's on the agenda for next week...
more thinking...??

lost bird...facing a fear no matter how large or small...and realizing that it does not kill is the most empowering thing in the world....

it's action and energy feeds and builds upon itself...

Also are you in any contact with wife...
or is she strict plan B...

ARK
don't think about my post..
do something about it...
decide no contact and don't write the letter again...tell the woman next time she calls to please quit contacting you...it only serves to damage her and you...

God-within-kily:

I appreciate your post and the points you made. You certainly understand the struggle with pain and pride, given the experience you shared in your post.

At what point did you decide to return to your spouse and end what you described as a fantasy world? Sadly, you were unable to salvage your marriage and I truly feel sorry for the loss.

Your post was both helpful and meaningful to me and I can't express how grateful I am for sharing your experience. However, I must differ with one of your comments -- in no way is my wife either desperate or flawed. Quite the contrary.

LB

Ark:
Thank you. Advice taken and will implemented on the OW's next attempt to contact me.

Sorry I did not answer your question earlier about Plan B and the degree of contact with my W. We communicate periodically -- mostly by email, although had a conversation at the house a week ago.

You are probably right, my W probably does believe more in me than I do myself.

As for what I am going through, call it BS if you wish. I didn't come here expecting the velvet glove treatment. I came for advice and appreciate all you and others have provided. Coming here is in itself, a step. Should I have arrived here a month, two months or four months ago? Perhaps. But I'm here now and getting some good advice, taking some lumps but am better for it.

LB

Hi Lost bird-

You'll either love me or hate me, but I'm going to be pretty direct about this whole situation. See, I'm here fighting for your marriage. Since I couldn't salvage my own relationship, I promised myself that I would do what I could to help others by my own experience.

You asked me a question:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At what point did you decide to return to your spouse and end what you described as a fantasy world? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Almost 1 year after moving out of my house, I found myself on a trip to Las Vegas. I was sitting on the bed in the hotel Mirage looking into the mirrored door of the closet. When I saw myself, I didn't even know who I was. There was no sign of the person that I used to be and suddenly it clicked...I was with a complete stranger and the family and man that I loved were home...moving on without me.

The ironic thing was that on that exact day, my X was cementing his relationship with his now fiance. I came home in hopes that the door
was still open but the lockshad been changed.

Now, I have shared my epiphany with you. Here now is what I felt based on my own story, when I read your posts...

In regards to your currentstate of paralysis, man you are ME in male form. Overthinking things to death...again I'm the feemale version. Has channge Always been very hard for you?
Agonizing almost?

Well, what I realized was that I didn't want to be responsible for hurting anyone so I stayed stuck. By not making a decision and staying in the status quo, I was "safe" because my world was predictable. I wasn't choosing to leave or stay, He was making all the effort to keep me after I made such a deliberate effort of declaring my independance from the relationship. It was HIS fault because he simply wouldn't let go...


My choice was not to do anything. By making that choice, I could stay in denial and not accept responsibility for what pain I was inflicting. After all, being chased after years of neglect felt good. It was nice to feel wanted by two men at the same time. Quite an ego builder for someone with self esteem so low.

So why stay stuck? Then your wife is forced to do the hard stuff. She is the one that has to ocarry the guilt of ending the marriage. She's the one that had to carry on all of the dommestic stuff while you simply ran to the fantasy of OW. Why make a choice? Doing that means change and change is terrifying.

Commiting to something is the scariest thing too because you don't understand the meaning of sacrafice, compromise, or honesty. I promise you, your wife does.

What will you feel tomorrow when YOU try to go home but you discover that thee locks have been changed and there is a FAMILY living there in the house you used to dwell in? How will you feel knowing that you FINALLY got up the guts to take responsibility for your choices and when you're finally ready to face what you've done...no one will be there to listen to your apology?

What would your life be like without your Wife in it? One time you imagined you wouldn't give a damned if she was there or not...I bet you don't feel that way now.

Get off your fence...the grass truly isn't greener on the other side. In the end, it's just more grass.

Lost Bird,

One of the thing that you might want to do it get someone to held you accountable. Why ? we are all have a moment where we could fall into temptations. Talk to your pastor if you are a church goer or your BW or close friend ... where you could be held accountable on your actions.

You need to be suround by people that love you, care about you and willing to see you to succeed.

-rh-

God-within-kily:

Sorry for the delay in responding to you latest post but as always, I thank you for it. Nah, there's no reason to hate you. Rather, I appreciate and respect your persistence.

Yes, it sounds as though we both have things in common. In retrospect, change has always been hard for me -- especially when the matter of change depends, to a degree, on my initiative. Trust me, I react and adjust well to my "environment" when it manifests itself as "whatever hand life deals me."

Your comment -- By not making a decision and staying in the status quo, I was "safe" because my world was predictable. I can relate to this but not for the same reason as you did. In many respects, my world is predictable but far from comfortable mentally or emotionally. One minute I feel ready to forge ahead full speed and tackle recovery, only to have that confidence completely shattered by a comment or email from my W. Then I sit here questioning myself, saying "I'm stronger than that." So yes, my world is predictable and to some degree, I can control the amount of criticism or judgement I experience. Whoa -- that may speak volumes.

While I am far from being in denial over the pain I have caused my W, I do see your point about being wanted. I am certain low self esteem is a precursor to infidelity as much as it is to other abuses and addictions. I find myself there, along with a gripping fear of failure.

Your comment...Commiting to something is the scariest thing too because you don't understand the meaning of sacrafice, compromise, or honesty. I promise you, your wife does. I realize more than anyone her understanding of sacrifice and compromise. Honesty, for me, is a problem -- disclosing my feelings has been a life long struggle. It's ironic that such a weakness eventually resulted in an A, which is the ultimate example of deceit and dishonesty.

I know what it's like to be physically locked out of the house. Being emotionally locked out is far more frightening. And yes, there were times--fleeting moments prompted by anger--when I just didn't care one way or the other. But if I didn't care at all, I seriously doubt I would spend any time here or experience any feeling of guilt or remorse.

Thanks again for the post. I am grateful for your investment of time and advice.

LB

Hi Lostbird,

At least you are here and still here trying to find answers. You are a little better than my WS who is DEFINATELY still lost out there coz he is not even talking or trying.

Keep coming back here ok...get support from the people here.

What did your wife say to you in the email that had your confidence completely shattered??

I paste the following...if you have the time read it...

try read this

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: zizzycool ]</small>

Redhat:

Thank you for the advice. Quite honestly, I have never reached out to anyone for help before. I have no idea why. Perhaps it's some strange malfunction unique to being male which includes the fear of admitting any type of need or weakness. Just the same, I am seeking that support from some longtime friends.

As predicted, members of my family have responded to this like they do to any crisis by pretending it doesn't exist.

I suspect that those who are surrounded by loving and supporting people are less likely to find themselves in the predicament of an A.

Thank you again.

Lb

Zizzy:

Thanks for the post and the link. Yes, I read it and like so many posts here, it should be required reading for the WS. I wish you the best and hopefully, your WS will begin a dialogue or at least do some reading here. Let's hope that day comes for both of you.

And, I appreciate your acknowledging that I am still here. It really means alot. Since WS's all fall into the ogre category in one form or fashion, there are differences, otherwise those of us that are here would certainly be spending time doing something else.

Yes, as a martian we have a hard time to ask for help. Also you could get support from people in this board ... I chat & talk w/ a few of male BS. We are here to help and to provide support.

One thing that you will not get is agreement for you in A.

You are welcome to IM or email me ... I could also call anywhere and anytime in us ... I have minutes w/o limit.

-rh-

RH:
Thanks for the offer but I haven't figured out how to communicate directly without posting my email or phone details here on the board. Among other things, I guess I am techno challenged too.

Believe me, I am not seeking any agreement on being in an A. Perhaps you may have misunderstood something I wrote or I may have done a poor job communicating.

lb

Have you made one concrete decision about
ONE (1) (uno) thing??

one action
one goal
one task
one motion
one errand
one action

one thing...
time is fleeting

ark

Lost Bird,

email me inside_hacker@yahoo.com ... we could chat. You need to do something ... as BS ... there is a limit even to a very deep ocean of Love. My exW went there ... I have no feeling at all left for her.

I am on a date tonight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and I will check my email when I come back home.

-rh-

RH:

Check your email when you get back and thank you again.

Lost Bird,
I have just read through this thread, and you have been given some very good advice. But I believe ark^^ is on the mark. You need to take a stand. Sometimes there is no gray, only black or white. Sometimes there is no maybe, only yes or no. You need to answer the hard questions that will affect the rest of your life, and you need to answer them now. Are you ready?
Do you want the OW out of your life permanently? I suppose so; well, maybe not completely is not an answer, or an option. Yes or no?
Do you want to be married? I guess so is not an answer, or an option. Yes or no.
Do you want to stay married to your BS? I think so, maybe, is not an answer, or an option. Yes or no?
Are you willing to do what is necessary to recovery your marriage? I would like to try is not an answer, or an option. Yes or no.
Tick, tick, tick&#8230; Believe me when I tell you your time for answering these questions, and for being able to return home and recover your M, is almost up.
My WW has been gone for nearly a year now, and I have been in PlanB with little contact for seven months, so I speak from experience here. If your BS is a believer in MB, and she has been following a good PlanB, then she has prepared herself to help you if you return. Better than most she will understand your grief, your shame, and your fears. And she wants the chance. But she has also been preparing herself to move on without you if you give her no choice. She does not want to, but she will if she must. You say that you have been living apart for a year? Trust me Lost Bird, time is getting short.
If you decide to return to your BW will she accept you back? Yes, if it&#8217;s not too late. A lot of damage has been done, and it will take a huge effort from both of you to repair it. A lot of healing will need to take place. But the rewards will be great.
If you decide to return to the OW will she accept you back? Probably, unless she has found someone else to replace you. She accepted you in the first place knowing (I assume) that you were married. But it is almost certain that it will end your marriage this time.
You have decisions to make, Lost Bird. If you do not make these decisions now then you leave your W with only one.

23down:

To answer your questions -- Yes! And I certainly realize that in this case, it is a black and white issue and "maybe" is not an option.

I also realize the very difficult work that is ahead. It will be the biggest challenge of my life.

LB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lost Bird:
<strong> RH:

Check your email when you get back and thank you again. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could you send it again ? I didn't see it on my mailbox.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lost Bird:
<strong>

I also realize the very difficult work that is ahead. It will be the biggest challenge of my life.

LB </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is the challenging part of it, LostBird?

It will, indeed, be the greatest challenge of your life. And recovering a M filled with shared goals, commitment, and trust with a woman you love, and who loves you, can be your life&#8217;s greatest reward.
But saying it will not make it happen. Answering Yes! to the hard questions will not make it happen. Only action on your part will make it happen. You have already written the NC letter. Meet with your W. If you have any question of her intentions, ask her. Let her read the letter, then send it. End all contact with the OW.
You seem certain of what you want. Show everyone, especially yourself, what you are made of. While there is still time, Lost Bird, accept the challenge.

lostbird -

I will be very honest with you. I am a BS. First you need to change your name to soaring eagle, or something like that. You are not lost, you are doing fine.

I have posted to several (4 or 5) WH's that suddenly disappeared from the board. They could not take the heat. When they received criticism, they vanished. So you are a very strong man. It cannot be easy to come here for support and find that everyone is not so supportive.

I hope that you will be the leader in your family. Women need that from a man, we don't admit it, but really desire it. I think you are up to it, because you are still here, fighting for your marriage.

Please don't give up when you have come so close. Expect a miracle and be ready to grab it.