RH -
I will try again. The fact you didn't receive the email may be a blessing. I found a nasty virus/worm on my computer later Friday night and have been out of commission since.

MelodyLane -
It will most challenging, but worth it. I suffer from an incredible amount of guilt and shame. As much as I wish it were possible, I can not undo the past. I would give anything if I could.

Believer -
Thanks so much for your note. It was encouraging and I appreciate it. I don't know that I am deserving of a new "name" now, but hopefully I will have a chance to earn it. I wish other WS would post here but suspect that many, although their intentions may be good, run because they are constantly reminded of the wrong turn(s) they took in their life. I'm not making excuses for them because this somewhat public forum offers some healing qualities in the advice offered and the "shots" taken. But forgive me, I am rambling now and probably making no sense at all.
Thank you again -- to all.
LB

Yep, time to change your name. You are still here. It seems there is a big drop out rate with the WS's. I know it is very hard for them, but of course they need support too. Most never planned for something like this to happen.

But you are strong, so get rid of your name. You are not lost, but found. I know it is excruciatingly painful to be in your situation, but stick with us. There is still lots of hope.

Believer:
Thank you again. I guess if there is the slightest silver lining to this horrid experience is being able to share an extremely painful "education" with other WS.

You are right. I don't think most intentionally set out to be a WS. They just wake up a little "stupider" one day. Just the same, support is needed.

LB

soo lostbird...you posted here first on February 18th....15 days ago..and you sly dog..you even got an extra day with leap year!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

SOOO
have you done one concrete action that brings you closer lets say not even reconciling...but closer to begining to heal yourself and this mess ???

Or are ya still thinking about it...

I suffer from an incredible amount of guilt and shame. As much as I wish it were possible, I can not undo the past. I would give anything if I could.

you gotta change your terminology..and you gotta shift your brain waves to a different way of thinking...

I CHOOSE too suffer from an incredible amount of guilt....

because the truth is the way that soooo many WS have healed and moved on has nothing to do with the amount or lack there of guilt felt...it has little to do with feelings...and lots to do with actions...

They decided things like when I was in my affair...I was not accountable for my time...so to show that I am not like that any more...I will now be accountable for my time...

they decide things like when I was in my affair I told lies...even withheld information so as to not lie directly...but just not volunteer quite the truth..so to change and show that I have changed...I will be truthful..

with myself
with my family
with the OW>

fifteen days have you gone no contact yet???
IF not why not????????????????

what is your reason for not ending contact...

you can chew this over and over and over in your mind..
you can wallow in the guilt and soon it will become you and will be comforting to be the victim...

I'm not making excuses for them because this somewhat public forum offers some healing qualities in the advice offered and the "shots" taken.

lostbird I see no shots taken at you...
reality and consequances are not shots...they are what they are...

Is it a shot to tell you that if you don't make a move and make a change you will lose your wife for good...and the loss of her will have very little to do with the actual affair BUT with your unwillingness to face the facts of your post affair actions...which we can barely call post affair...since you are I am assuming still in contact...

time is fleeting
one action
one action
one goal
one task
one motion
one errand
one action

one thing...
time is fleeting

ark

Ark-

A step closer, perhaps, but another challenge and sizable portion of stubborn pride that I must swallow. My W and I had an encouraging conversation and I agreed to send the NC letter but first I wanted to call the OW, tell her of my decision and bring closure.

Yes, I knew that making the call violates a MB principal. However, IMHO three people are sadly impacted and I sit in the middle, feeling responsible for this unfortunate, selfish and hurtful mess. My W viewed such a call as totally unacceptable. Yes, I know what I have to do -- send the letter without the call.

I think you may have misunderstood my comments about "shots" or perhaps, I did a horrible job of expressing myself. I agree -- reality and consequences are exactly what they are. Strong advice or a dose of the truth may seem like a shot, but not in a negative sense if someone were here looking for help. Chances are, those feeling otherwise quickly disappear from this site anyway.

LB

Hi Lost Bird.
When my husband had to say 'goodbye' to the OW, I don't think he could have done it, if he had to think he would never ever talk with her again.

I realized as the BS, if I DEMANDED 'no contact',it just wouldn't work.
It had to be something he knew he needed to do.

There were a few times during recovery and trying to get over her, that he called her in my presence. (I actually suggested it!)
I tried my hardest to put myself in his place and to feel what he felt.
He once said, he loved this lady like a beloved sister and felt a fellowship with her in their many many conversations.
(A sister he had sex with; arrggh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

That was 7 months ago and I think he is pretty well through withdrawal from her.
(She was single and now has a new live-in 'sweetie'.

So perhaps like an alcoholic that is stopping drinking, if you could just think of going through this day without contact with the OW and then do the same tomorrow.
Don't think of weeks, months and years or it will drive you crazy.

MAYBE with your wife on the extension, it would be alright to call the OW and say 'goodbye' if that is what you need to get through this.
Sincerely, Julie
LB, your marriage can heal if you and your wife both really want it to.
It just takes TIME...Time truly is a BLESSING.

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Blessed Time:

You are right about breaking the addiction in "manageable" units of time. I suspect that successfully breaking the contact addiction is exactly like the advice offered to someone overcoming an addiction to alcohol or cigarettes. You don't think of a life time without those things as it would be too overwhelming. Instead, it's a matter of thinking I don't want a drink or cigarette right now...later, I don't want one today, etc.

My W also offered to listen in on an extension when I made the call. I initially rejected the idea. My W's immediate reaction when learning I wanted to place the call was that I was placing someone else's feelings (the OW's) over hers. I didn't see the connection at first. Maybe I'm just slower than most folks.

Thank you very much for the post.
LB

lostbird -
I kinda feel like your wife does. My H could never just have NC. He always had to worry about what she would think. My feelings did not seem to matter.

I am filing for a divorce now. I told him if she means that much to him, go for it. I'm pretty much done with him.

I hope you will be able to do what you need to do. I will be thinking about you.

Well there is no time like the present...

and I am not sure that there is such a thing as closure....

that can be a tidy little word...that just enables contact to go on and on...

And no I am not suggesting you inflict more cruelity on to the OW...but know that somethings are futile...
and seeking closure can be a slippery slope in futility all labeled the quest for closure...

not everything in life can be tied up in a pretty package...
sometimes it is what it is....

the goal is not closure...the goal is ending the anguish that contact begets...
to all parties involved...

so what's the plan for no contact...
what actions will you put in place to end contact...
what lies beyond the phone call...
and if there is a phone why the need for a letter...

ARK

I'm calling you to tell you I'm sending you a letter to tell you I can't call you anymore?
WTF, Lost Bird.
Tick, tick, tick....

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: 23down ]</small>

I'm calling you to tell you I'm sending you a letter to tell you I can't call you anymore?

WTF, Lost Bird

Now THAT cracked me up....

23down...why do I picture SPOCK from Star Trek saying that exact thing?...


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ark

I am glad you finally found your answer LB...keep us posted on your up coming withdrawal...we will all try to help... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oneday when you feel better and up to it...can you post what it is that finally made you decide.

lostbird -

Are you still with us?

Lost Bird:

I really hope that I am not out of place here, but, this is something that I must say.....Just realize that while you are waiting...... you could lose her(your wife). What if she is so vulnerable right now that she reaches out to the first guy that pays her any attention or gives her a kind gesture or wants to comfort her because he knows what she is going thru. All because she is so very lonely and hurt and betrayed by her own husband whom she loved and trusted to protect her. What if??? right??? It could happen! It happened to me.
I don't say this to hurt you in any way, but I say it because maybe it can open your eyes a bit on her perspective. I waited so long for my husband while he continued to hurt me over and over until one day I just let go of trying to hold on to him any longer. And here in front of me was a different man who reached out to me. Who seemed to really care that I was hurting so badly. For the first time in a long time, I had felt that "I" mattered. And here I go caught up in that fog.
I believed that I loved this man. I NEEDED to believe that someone could still love ME! You see, I was totally fooled....fooled because I was so broken. I became swept up in this emotional tie with OM that I couldn't see what was real anymore. I just knew that I needed to be understood and cared about, and it "felt" good to finally be needed myself. He seemed to meet all of my needs that my husband just threw away. I felt as though I was a piece of garbage that my husband could just pick up and use and toss aside anytime he wanted. I actually believed that my H would be really happy that I found someone else. But no, he was so angry, and I became more confused, and to make a very very long story short......we have finally found our way back together after 3 years of the worst things you can imagine. It has been so very hard, and it would be great if others could be spared of any of this happening to them.
We have been back together for a year and a half now. This has been the hardest time in my life.
I am not saying that this will happen to you, but it was the scenario in my life. I just want you to know that if you ever truly loved your wife and believed in your marriage, then you can again! Don't give up. So many people give up so easily. It is worth saving! There is nothing like being with the family that God gave you!

The best to you and yours....

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: little_sis ]</small>

Believer:

Most definitely, still here. I didn't post yesterday (oops) because I was reading some incredible stuff here after working rather late.

No, I haven't retreated at all and have no plans to do so.

LS:

Thanks for the post and sharing your experience. Yes, I understand that the risk of losing a BS who has given up hope is very real and haunting. I'm happy you and your H are in recovery and wish you the very best. I am glad you are still here -- it speaks volumes about the support offered and the value found here.

LB

LB-

Have you read my thread on this forum?

Do you really want to get to the point of standing in a room with your W and have her feel as if you were a complete stranger to her. Imagine her feeling nothing towards you other than wonder as to how she became so detached from someoene that she once cared so deeply for.

Why do you want to contact OW before sending the letter? Let me take a stab at it...is it to say I'm sending you this letter but I don't really mean it? Is it so she will not HATE you and feel hurt because you ran back to your life? You didn't give your W that much regard when you ran around behind her back.

I already know the answer to that t question and so do you.

Why is it that the OW is more deserving of an explanation than your own W? Have your wife mail that letter and end your pain. At least you have someone that loved you so dearly that she waited for you. Imagine not having her there. It hurts.

Well lostbird...anything you'd like to share...

Or are you choosing to be lostbirdforever??

ark

Ark -

Lost - no. I'm still here but am on the road for business -- alone I might add -- and dealing with the uncertainties of the M(aybe) S(ometimes) N(etwork) remote connections. As a matter of fact, there is something to share and perhaps you will be the third or fourth to know it.

Kily -

Your assumption on the purpose of the call was not correct, but you made your point just the same. I only pose the question - what is wrong with personally standing up for your position and actions, directly stating of your commitment (although by phone) to the OP as a step toward closure and turning your back on the A? Some will argue, with valid points, that such a call presents a risk and opportunity to change one's mind. In that case, the commitment to recovery and the M was shaky at best. This is not an attempt to argue or defend, just something for discussion.

LB

Hey...you are still here. How is it going at your end? Have you gone back home yet?

I don't really believe in getting in the middle like this, but...

bumping for my H (Lost Bird) who still needs your help in ending the A and sending the n/c letter.

Thanks all. Now I'm outta here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />