Heroswife..I feel so badly for you. We lived next door to teh OW so even though we agreed to no intentional contact (included not letting our kids play together anymore and abandoning our social group) we still couldn't help seeing her and her family around. It was HORRIBLE...even though my H came out of fog quickly and started despising her.

Please listen to us...you can't heal knowing they are together every day. Please hop over to recovery and post a note to Legalette about this.

You need to know that he choses you and your children over a job.

Are you sure the EA never turned PA? Does this matter to you?

Do not feel you have anything to prove to others...don't go to social outings with her there...it won't change her one bit. During the 6 wk A with my H OW would interact with my family like nothing was any different..she would face me, my kids we were at each others houses etc. Do not count on you being able to get her to do the right thing.

Forever -

I'm not sure how to find out if he would take his job over his family. I'm pretty sure that if I said I would leave him unless he left his job he would help me pack my bags. He thinks I'll hate him forever for this anyway.

I am pretty sure it was PA. I can just tell by the way he is in the bed now. I knew from the very moment we first made love. Even before I had proof. He still denies it strongly.

I'm not sure I care if he admits to it anymore. I know what I feel in my heart and that's complete betrayal. I feel lost and like I live with a stranger. I'm not so sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him anymore. I'm here now because of the kids. I do love him. I love him so much and I'm sure that's why this is so hard for me to deal with.

What do you recommend I post to Legalette? Does she have some insight that might be helpful for someone in my position?

I'm terrified of how this will all turn out. I want my life back. I want to get over the bitterness.

He's really trying hard. He even goes to the gym with me every night and he takes a class with me at the gym on Saturdays. He's the only guy in there and he loves taking the class with me. If you asked me if there was anything else he could be doing right now to help me deal with this....I would say NO...except going to work with her every day. I want him to hate her but he tries to protect her.

I am just so confused. I want my life back.

HerosWife,

Wait a minute. Let's see something here...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't do plan B. I just can't. He's trying now. He's really putting forth an effort and it's me that keeps bring the A up and it's me that can't seem to let it go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So? You cant let go. So what? Maybe you could let go, if he let go. I again go back to one of my previous posts. He is no hero, and no husband, if he allows his wife to continue to live like this...no matter if anything is currently going on or not. Does he want to be right...or does he want to be married.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's doing everything he can. When I get upset he gets angry. I don't blame him for getting angry sometimes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is? Then he isnt much of a man, or a husband. He is doing nothing, if you still feel like this. If he was doing everything he could, he would get away from her. Ask for a transfer. Whatever. You dont blame him? It is statements like this that make me believe that you are enabling him. Look, Hero...I am not beating up on you. Really. But you have to see this for what it is. You arent going to be able to "get with the program." So, either he becomes a real man and husband and looks out for his wife, or you will continue to be miserable. And the marriage will end.

This is so much more than the OW. He is disrespecting you. Sure, he might have made improvements in other areas. But basically, he is still be a selfish SOB!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B would kill my kids. How could I ever hope to rebuild if I do Plan B and he leaves his job? He'd hate me forever if I ruined his career. He wouldn't leave anyway. I know him and he wouldn't leave. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can you ever hope to rebuild as long as he puts this woman, and his career, before you? Even once he moves on, his job will still come before you. You want that? You willing to play second fiddle the rest of your life?

He would hate you forever if you ruined his career? How about you hating him forever for ruining your life and making you sit thru this? If he wont leave for you, if he wont separate himself from being near the OW...then, your marriage is in deep trouble. And I say it again...it doesnt matter if anything is going on or not. As 1st Corinthians states, all things are lawful but not all things edify. Which means, sure, if he isnt in an affair, he is technically doing no wrong. But if his actions are hurting another, ESPECIALLY his wife...he should give them up immediately.

Again, does he want to be right, or married? If you dont get him into counseling, and the two of you together realize how close you are to this falling apart...then I dont see any other way for this marriage to work. Except you living in silent misery for the rest of your life, with a man that puts career and friends ahead of his own family. And THAT is what he is doing to you...and to his children!

In His arms.

Legalette's H had an EA with his assistant...he also refused to fire her or quit himself.

Everyone is different but you need to decide what you need to recover...me, I needed:

-NC
-IC (both of us)
-MC (we did traditional and with Steve Harley)
-COMPLETE HONESTY (he took 2 polygraphs)
-Needed him to read about MB principles and agree like me to live by them.
-Remorse
-Willingness to do anything to recover our M and to help me recover

Point is you need to decide what you need in order to live with yourself and with him. Not just what you can tolerate today but what you can live with down the road.

I firmly believe that a M won't be A proof without going through most of these steps.

Since I believed we needed to do these things to recover, if he hadn't of been willing...I would have never felt safe..nor would I have respected myself or him.

What do you need?

Mortarman -

You are right and I guess I need to hear the things you are saying.

I will not ruin his career. I will not. Too many people look up to him and he has done so many things at war. Some of those things haunt him and I know that. Without his career what would he be?

I love him. I want to do what is right. In my heart I know that what is right is not ruining his career.

I have talked to him about a transfer. I've begged and pleaded. Since we just got here he's tied to at least 12 months and I know they will fight to keep him here as long as they can.

I'm not sure I can ever be happy here. I'm looking forward to a short tour. I haven't even unpacked yet. I'm hoping to get an overseas tour next. I'd take North Korea over this place.

I'm going to wait for the fog to lift completely and then address it. Until then I will continue with Plan A to the best of my ability.

Just now I went to pick my kids up from school. I saw a car that looked like her's might have been I'm not sure. I started calling him. I left a message and waited for about an hour. He didn't call back. I called again and it went straight to voicemail. I then sent an email telling him I was starting to panic and to please call me.

He did. He called me immediately. He understands that I panic when he doesn't call me right back. He was very understanding.

He'll be home in an hour and we are going to the gym and then out for pizza (that's ironic, huh). I'm going to try to have a good night without any mention of the A.

He sounded good on the phone considering the blow out we had last night.

Mortarman I'm not being stubborn...or maybe I am. I'm just dealing with this the best way I know how. I can't ruin his career. I can't. It's bigger then us and our marriage. It's about his soldiers and the guys that look up to him. It's about his family and how this would crush them if his career was ruined. I love his family and they have been very supportive of me throughout all of this.

How does having him live in a van down by the river help my children? What does that do for them?

Mortarman I need your support and I need your advice as a military man. What can I do? Who can I go to? I know her tour here has about 2 years left. Do you think I should go down the path of trying to move that date up?

Heroswife,

Let me show you something...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mortarman I'm not being stubborn...or maybe I am. I'm just dealing with this the best way I know how. I can't ruin his career. I can't. It's bigger then us and our marriage. It's about his soldiers and the guys that look up to him. It's about his family and how this would crush them if his career was ruined. I love his family and they have been very supportive of me throughout all of this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, I am not getting down on you for this. You are a great wife to have, one that fully supports your husband's career. We need more wives like this in the military.

That being said...his career is bigger than your marriage? Then your marriage is doomed. Priorities, priorities. How can he be a good soldier, when he isnt being a good husband. How? You did not chose for him to have an affair...he did that. He chose to set up this situation. Anything that happens to his career is his fault.

Look, I am retiring as we speak. My unit is departing for Afganistan in the next week. I am the First Sergeant. Do you know how many guys have come up to me, telling me they wish I was going and leading them? I got a call from a squad leader last night, stating this very thing. Do you think I feel good about it? Do you think I dont feel some resentment toward my wife for the position she has put me in? If one of those guys dies, do you think it wont cross my mind that it might have been different if I was there?

Look...that position he is in was filled before he got there...and it will be filled once he leaves. Blood comes first!!! I am not saying his career has to be over. But his contact with the OW has to. That is quite evident.

There are ways to do this. He could go to the commander over both of them and have a closed door session. Since he is a good soldier, by explaining that (he doesnt have to confess to the affair) due to a possible attraction with him and OW, that he needs a transfer to a different unit for his family's sake. That is honor. That is respect. And that commander will see that. And I am willing to bet he will allow the transfer.

Those men and women are NOT more important than you. That career is not more important than you.

And his family? Well, if they are supportive, then they will understand. This is not your fault. Your husband needs to bend over backwards for you and this family. He doesnt have to end his career, but he does HAVE TO get away from the OW. Now how he does that is his choice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How does having him live in a van down by the river help my children? What does that do for them? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, that doesnt have to happen. He isnt going to lose his career by asking for a transfer. But even if he left the military...it helps his kids because they will learn what true honor, sacrifice are. As mine are learning thru my retirement. They will see a father that put their mother above anything else in this life. And they will love him all the more for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mortarman I need your support and I need your advice as a military man. What can I do? Who can I go to? I know her tour here has about 2 years left. Do you think I should go down the path of trying to move that date up?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have my support. But you need to get him to wake up and smell the coffee. He has a very bad situation on his hands. You think he is going to be able to soldier on at the current level thru a divorce, separation from his kids, etc? Come on.

You need to have a heart to heart with the hubby and tell him that you want his career as much as he does. but he is going to have to put you first. There is a solution here. But disrespecting you and staying near the OW for two years aint it!

In His arms.

I back mortarman 100%. He must make that sacrifice, whatever the consequences. There is no way his career could or should ever be more important than his wife and children.

Even if you do end up living in a van, (which wont happen), surely this is better for you and your children than where you are now, living day-to-day with his continued betrayal. In the van at least you will be free of the OW.

What this all comes down to is money and status. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR RUINING HIS CAREER. He is the one who broke a cardinal rule by engaging in a sexual relationship with a colleague. This cant be an advantage in a life-or-death situation. You must demand that he leaves this post, and if he refuses you must expose the affair, which may be continuing as he is still clearly in the fog.

Please dont give up, be strong for yourself and your children.

Sending my love and hugs

Well Mortarman and Ks -

I am by far more stupid then I thought. Last night after I made my last post of this site I was helping my oldest child log onto our home computer. As a habit I checked the history records to see if my H had been online while I was away. I noticed that there was a webmail url in the list and I clicked it. I could not go to the page as I did not have a login but I could tell that someone had logged in and read an email message. I lost it.

My first mistake: I jumped to the conclusion as many BS's do I'm sure. I knew my daughter didn't have an alternate email address set up. And I assumed it was my H's alternate email address. He called to tell me he was on his way home from work. I was still in shock and he could tell something was wrong in my voice.

My second mistake: I told him to get his @ss home and hung up. He started calling me back and I didn't answer. I finally answered the phone and he was like "what is going on here"? I started on my rampage of how he couldn't leave her alone and that this was his mess to clean up and that I was out of it now. Told him that I was leaving and he needed to focus on his life and decide how to rebuild a life without me. I was NUTS. Didn't even cry. Just didn't care.

He gets home and my clothes are packed. I'm getting ready to walk out the door.

My Third Mistake: As I'm walking out the door my oldest child (whom hasn't witnessed all of this but knows something is wrong) realizes that I am leaving. I was going back to the town we just moved from - which is where I still work - and in my insane state just thought I'll get away and set up things for the kids and then come back and get them. I didn't think about them being here without me. She started screaming NO NO NO MOMMIE NO. I lost it. I fell apart.

I finally told him about the email account I found. He just looked at me stunned and said "I swear on the lives of my children that I have had NC with OW". He looked at me confused and said I have no idea what you are talking about. He then sat down and said.......here's the kicker....are you ready for this?......"my brother was on the computer last week. I bet that's his email account" He jumps up and calls his brother. I can hear the entire conversation. He asks him if he was on our computer when he was here and his brother proceeds to tell him that he logged on just to check his email but that was it.

So there you have it! I am an idiot.

I feel so stupid. He held me on the couch after I had calmed down. He told me he loved me and that he was so sorry for all of this.

I asked him if I asked him to pick between me and his job which would he pick. He said he didn't want to pick either. He said he could not leave this job now. He said there was no way. I told him that if he had a will there would be a way. I asked him again....If I asked you to pick me or your career which would you pick. He said "why are you doing this to me?" I said, I'm not asking you to pick I'm simply asking you which one you would pick.

He never answered.

I told him to look at me. See what this has done to me. Look at who I am now. This place is killing me. He never said another word.

I went into the kitchen and took a pain pill and some cough medicine to help me sleep and I went to bed.

I guess I already know his answer. He didn't have to answer because I already knew.

Okay. Listen. Last night was proof positive of what I have been saying. You cannot live like this. He may think that being a good boy, not being with OW except in a professional way, and moving on with life is just fine. Most WSs think this.

BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM ANYMORE! He got to be selfish when he had an affair. He doesnt get to be selfish now.

Look, first off...his career would be ruined if the IG got involved and found out the two of them got chummy. As KS said above, from the Army's point of view, it is not good that persons in the same chain of command have this kind of relationship, even if they are single. Lives depend on these relationships remaining professional. Added to that, your husband has broken several military laws (adultery, Conduct Unbecoming and Officer...to name a few). You add all this up, and his career is over!!!

Now, for his career's sake, let's say someone in that unit knows at least a little about their relationship. Believe me, nothing goes unnoticed in military units. And lets say that this soldier has an axe to grind. He gets mad about something. What do you think he is going to do? He makes an anonymous phonecall to the IG...AND YOUR HUSBAND'S CAREER IS OVER! And he might get jail time. And with any of this, what kind of job do you think he will get in the civilian world, when he isnt able to get a clearance, etc?

Dont you see? His career is hanging in the balance as it is. All it will take is for the chain of command to get one wiff of this...and his life is over. And then that van you are talking about above will become a reality.

You see, I am not just talking about your marriage. I was an inspector general for 4 years. Believe me...I have seen it all. And I have seen good soldiers lose their careers...and their lives, over stupid things like this. Your husbands career has put your family in jeapordy, your marriage in jeapordy, his career in jeapordy, the rest of his life in jeapordy...and the lives of those in his unit in jeapordy. Now, after all I have said here...please tell me he is a GOOD soldier!

We are taught in the military...duty, honor, country. Your husband has betrayed all of that through his selfishness. He was willing to chance losing it all for a fling. But, he has a chance right now, due to an exceptionally loving wife, to make amends. To turn this around before there is anymore hurt, and anymore damage. To your family, to you, to him, to the OW and to his unit.

This thing, should it get out, will destroy that unit. I have seen it!! And what will that do for the defense of this nation.

Your husband may think this is but a little matter, and that everyone needs to get over it. But he is playing russian roulette with everyone's lives and futures.

Even the OW, who he believes is stil la friend, stand to lose everything.

If your husband has the integrity and honor in him that took him to where he has so far, then he will find a way to get away from OW ASAP. To transfer. Or to resign his commission (Iam assuming he is an officer).

Because, the day a guy like me knocks on his door, or your door, and says "Maam, I am here from the Inspector General's office," his world and your world will never be the same.

Think about this. It isnt going to go away. The only way to salvage your lives now, and his career, is to get that transfer. Or get out.

And oh...by the way...that little pesky thing called your marriage cant survie the current atmosphere either.

I believe he loves you. I believe he WAS a good soldier. And all good soldiers make mistakes. But the ones with integrity and honor will do the right thing, no matter the personal cost to themselves.

I dont want to be in a foxhole next to perfect soldiers...just ones that are willing to put everything else before themselves. Any other man doesnt deserve to wear the uniform.

In His arms.

Mortarman -

He is not an officer. He is a senior NCO.

I do know about the military code of conduct. I spoke with someone from JAG (a friend of a friend) on a confidential level to determine exactly what could happen to him. I was told that at the very least he would be downgraded to a private and court marshalled. They said it would depend on the unit the next course of action....as to him being discharged. As for the OW being my H's boss she would suffer greater punishment and possible jail time. That too would depend on her unit and her record as a soldier.

Again, I would never do anything to impact my H's career. I would not do that to him. I love him and know how important his career is. I'm not that kind of person. I'm just not.

I would like to set her career on fire though but I can't do that without hurting my H.

He won't consider leaving the unit or trying to get a transfer. Do I just move to Plan B? Just like that. Walk out and do that to my children.

I know what happened last night was not helpful for my kids. My oldest child cannot sleep at night as it is. The baby is just wild all the time.

My oldest child just got settled into her new school - middle of the year school changes are not easy.

If he won't try to get a transfer my hands are tied. Or at least I feel like they are tied.

I'm so confused. I love him and I'm so proud of him and all he's accomplished. Why can't he see that he is killing. Every minute of every day is a nightmare for me.

I'm dead inside and all I can think of is how much I'm hurting everyone by my actions. How I just need to let this go and move on with my life.

Why can't he see? Why can't he see that I would slit my wrist and bleed for him if I thought that would make this easier on him. I would do anything in this world for him. I have done so much to help him get where he is today.

Why can't he see that?

Listen to mortarman! He has to leave his job! Ask your husband to read this thread, and hopefully he will see sense.

Instead of asking him what he would choose if you asked him, ASK HIM TO CHOOSE! Your children will suffer if you do not get away from this nightmare ASAP. Im sure your eldest would prefer to have to change schools in the middle of the year than tolerate any more of this. You and your H could inflict a lifetime of mental issues on your children by not taking the right actions now. Do you want them to learn thats its ok for men to break their wedding vows and military code? How do you think that will affect them in later life and relationships?

You told him that if there was a will there would be a way: the same applies to you!

If he would really choose his career over your marriage:
1. It could be that the A is continuing
2. He is a poor excuse for a man and does not deserve a wife like you, or a career in the military.
3. PLAN B

You need to lay down the law and make some serious demands. Do not back down. He cannot afford to be selfish any more than he already has been.

Sending my love

You had a lot fo questions. I will endeavor to answer them

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is not an officer. He is a senior NCO. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This matters not. Actually, it is worse, because many times, officers are allowed to resign, where enlisted are prosecuted. So, not good for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do know about the military code of conduct. I spoke with someone from JAG (a friend of a friend) on a confidential level to determine exactly what could happen to him. I was told that at the very least he would be downgraded to a private and court marshalled. They said it would depend on the unit the next course of action....as to him being discharged. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this was an acceptible risk for him then? this is an acceptible risk for you now? If he gets busted, his career is over. he will not be allowed to retire, or to even re-enlist. This will be on his permanent record, which will follow him everywhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for the OW being my H's boss she would suffer greater punishment and possible jail time. That too would depend on her unit and her record as a soldier. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, Iask...this is an acceptible risk for him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I would never do anything to impact my H's career. I would not do that to him. I love him and know how important his career is. I'm not that kind of person. I'm just not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even if you dont do something, someone else will. It WILL catch up to him if you remain there. Someone will open their mouth and the cat will be out of the bag. The only secret is when only one person knows about it. I can GUARANTEE that there are others that know something in that unit. And oh, by the way...even if you did say something, it wouldnt be you doing it to his career...he has already done that. He has already broken the law. You saying something or not saying something cannot change that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would like to set her career on fire though but I can't do that without hurting my H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He won't consider leaving the unit or trying to get a transfer. Do I just move to Plan B? Just like that. Walk out and do that to my children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why?? Ask yourself this...really.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what happened last night was not helpful for my kids. My oldest child cannot sleep at night as it is. The baby is just wild all the time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is doing this, not you. I have three kids. They just went thru hell the last two years. You cannot protect them from everything. What are you gonna do...keep quiet? Say nothing? Let this continue? How does that help your kids? To see Mom a mess. How in the world will tht help them? I tell you, the only way to truly help them before they are permanently hurt, is to get that man to do what is right by his family, by his wife. Whatever it takes!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My oldest child just got settled into her new school - middle of the year school changes are not easy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me...I understand. If you have read my threads, my kids went thru hell. After I came home and found out about the A, we stayed together for about 4 months. we looked like were working on things. But every couple of days, she would call OM or go talk to him. Was there still a PA going on? I dont know. But it didnt matter. She said that he had been a friend and with everything still going on, she needed him as a friend (fog talk). I couldnt put up with that. So, I continued to create a crisis with her. Everytime she talked to him or went to see him, we fought. At the end of the 4 months, she moved out and left the kids with me and started up fulltime with the OM. This went on for about 9 months. And then she came home.

My kids are happy now. We are in recovery. Not everything is great, but it isnt all bad anymore. And the first reason is the OM is gone. I do not have to have that on my mind, so I can settle down and work on repairing this marriage.

You cannot even begin to forgive or work on this until she is gone. What are your kids going to do for the next two years while you go nuts? While more incidents happen like last night?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he won't try to get a transfer my hands are tied. Or at least I feel like they are tied. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They are not tied. See below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so confused. I love him and I'm so proud of him and all he's accomplished. Why can't he see that he is killing. Every minute of every day is a nightmare for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And the nightmare will continue until someone in this marriage does something about it. And you being proud of him only should go so far. Why? Because he was willing to risk all that he did and earned for this gal. And now, he is still willing to risk it all. I'm telling you, he is sitting on a timebomb as long as he is still in that unit with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm dead inside and all I can think of is how much I'm hurting everyone by my actions. How I just need to let this go and move on with my life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your actions?!?!?! Wake up girl. It isnt your actions that are doing this. It is him, all him, nothing but him. Stop taking blame and covering for him. YOU ARE ENABLING HIM! Stop it now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why can't he see? Why can't he see that I would slit my wrist and bleed for him if I thought that would make this easier on him. I would do anything in this world for him. I have done so much to help him get where he is today. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, no more talk of slitting wrists..okay? Second, why cant he see? Because he thinks he can just walk away from this on his own terms. AND HE CANNOT!!! He has a chance to walk away from this unscathed really. But that chance is dwindling. He is dmaging his marriage everyday that he remains. He is damaging his future (and the futures of you and those kids) everyday he is near her. He cannot see because he is still in the fog. You are going to have to get him to see this...and soon. Even if it takes getting the kids and heading to your parents house...and instituting Plan B. This man has got to be woke up.

Sit there and bemoan what is happening, and continue to cover for him...and your marriage will be destroyed...and all of your futures. Sit him down, get to a counselor, something. And lay down the law. Do not let that man ruin his life, and everyone else's.

Figure this out. I do not want to come on here and see a post with the title "Mortarman...you were right." There are two paths in front of you. He is leading you down the wrong road...one where he will damage everyone. He thinks he is invincible. Right up until that knock on the door happens.

In His arms.

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Mortarman and KS -

I hear you both loud and clear. I am going to take some time to think about this so that when I make my decision I know it will be well thought out. I wish I could say that I would institute Plan B tonight but unfortunately I do not have the strength to do that right now.

Truth be told - I'm exhausted from the emotional roller coaster of yesterday. I'm just completely numb. It was like it was happening all over again. I insides feel like they have been torn out and then shoved back in.

I need to get focused and determine best way to implement Plan B. I'm still not sure I can do it. I know I need to and I know I HAVE to if my marriage is going to survive but I'm not sure I'm strong enough.

I'm terrified. I thank you for your support and giving me a sounding board for the issues I am facing. I can't tell you how much it means to be able to come here and know that there are other people out there like you guys to help me through this.

Ok, I've been thinking about Plan B.

I think I will stick to my plan A date that was set from the beginning so that if Plan B ends my M I will have no regrets and know that I gave it a chance.

I need to come to terms with the thought of taking my children away from their father. I'm not sure I can do that but I'm also very positive that I do not want them in the situation they are currently in.

I am completely numb emotionally. I feel like I'm going crazy. I can't focus on anything.

I just feel so lost.

It is your H who is not giving your marriage a chance. It is almost irrelevant what you do as he refuses to end contact and take steps to protect his marriage and family.

Have you told him he has to choose yet? Do it.

Ks -

No I have not told him to choose yet. I'm drained right now. I'm physically and emotionally drained. I feel like I am losing it here.

Before the latest episode I was up and down, up and down all the time. Now I'm just down all the time. I haven't recovered from Monday's low....the discovery of the email account that was not my H's but brought back all the pain like it was happening to me all over again.

I feel like I'll have to stop coming here for help because I can't implement Plan B. Like if I can't take the advice you guys are giving me then I shouldn't be here. All of this is about the MB guidelines and I can't meet those guidelines by instituting Plan B and forcing NC between my H and the OW.

I'm lost. This is the only place I feel like people understand what I'm going through. Without MB I do not know where to turn.

Cant or wont?

Please dont stop coming here: we all give you the very best advice we can for your situation as we see it. We would not advise plan B if we didnt feel it was best for the long term.

*hoping for another visit here by the legendary mortarman*

Heroswife,

Okay. Settle down now. We know you are tired. And you dont want to make a mistake. He is, afterall, still with you and still doing things with you. And I know you dont want to upset that. You are afraid of making one huge mistake and causing the death of your marriage in one full swing.

Well, first off...that is a possibility...but not probable, especially if your husband has ended at least the PA side of this. But I will tell you this...if you continue as you are, then your marriage dies, not from one big event, but instead "death by a thousand cuts." A slow bleed.

You want that? I have tried to help you understand that your marriage is not your responsibility. Not really. It is God's. It is your responsibility to hold up your end of the bargain, to do what you are supposed to do. But you cannot run his side.

Do you love your husband? I know, a stupid question. But, since you have proven you love him then you also have to take that love and not be selfish yourself. How are you being selfish? You are doing so by allowing this marriage to continue no matter what.

If you really love him (which I believe you do), then you would do the tough things. Dont say you "can't." Parapelegics CAN'T walk. You CAN do this. This is not about ability...but about will.

I know. I am not unsympathetic. I know you are scared. I know you dont have all of the answers. No one does. But, you do know that ALL you can do is to do the right thing, pray...and leave the rest to God.

MB principles work. They have a better result ratio because they speak directly to human nature, and to the character of affairs. The odds are in your favor if you follow them. They may not be if you don't.

Leaving this board is not the answer. Running away into a corner of your house and "enduring" this is not the answer. We are not beating up on you. But, jsut as I was in my situation a year ago, you are too close to this. You are directly involved, and thus...your emotions betray you.

I just got back from counseling with my wife. While many of our problems, if I were to step outside the relationship, would be easy for me to see...I cant very well step outside the relationship. That is why I still post here for help and support. That is why we have sought professional help. Because this stuff cannot be done alone.

Your husband is doing your marriage great damage. You, right now, are the ONLY one in it that understands exactly what is going on, and the dangers involved. He may have an inkling, but he has that aura of invincibility around him (most military men do). He thinks he can just soldier on, and everything will be okay. But it will not.

So, the direction this marriage takes will initially be up to you. If you back down, if you let this go on...well, you know what could happen, and you know what will happen. But, if you stand up and say "Look, no more. I love you. I want this marriage. But you, honey, are going to have to make some choices. I WILL be number one in your life. You will do the right thing after doing something so horribly wrong. I will be treated with respect, and with love. And if you cannot do that, then I will not be here. And then you can have all the time in the world in your new priority."

God calls men to love their wives like Christ loves us. What kind of love is that? Sacrificial love! Willing to give everything for their wives. Everything, including their life. Kind of like the military. And I tell you what...I do not want a soldier in the foxhole next to me that has other priorities in his life besides his buddies next to him. I dont want one that is more worried about himself and his own skin, then the welfare of those around him.

Your husband, as I said before, is exceedingly selfish. I believe he does love you. But thru his selfishness, and thru you enabling him, he is allowed to keep doing this. Something has to give. Do you want it to give when you no longer love him, but instead resent him and hate him? Do you? Right now, you both still love each other. But he does not know the way out of his situation. So he keeps on doing what he knows how to do. YOU are going to have to show him another way. The right way. And if he wont go willingly, well...as some have said...you are going to have to create a crisis. Because I believe until he has a crisis, he wont budge.

You dont have to listen to this. You dont have to do a thing. You can sit still, just like he is, and maintain the status quo. But guess what, he is comfortable where things are now. You are not. So, who has more at stake here? You do!! So it is you that will have to take action.

Otherwise, this will not get better. Call the Harleys. Get your husband into counseling with Steve Harley. Do what it takes. Steve is very good at getting the WS to see what they need to do. You need help in this.

But in the end, it will be you that gets this started. Now, will you? Look those kids in the eyes right now, and decide what kind of family they are going to have in 2 years.

In His arms.

OK, he has agreed to speak to Dr. Harley.

Is now the time to set up that call? Should I wait a day or 2 since what happened Monday night? Give some time in Plan A to boost his confidence in my ability to forgive him? Right now he does not think I will ever forgive him. He's even gone so far as to tell me to just leave him so I won't be so miserable and he can get on with his life.

How do I communicate to him that I want to forgive him and that I want to move beyond this but I cannot.

If I tell him this afternoon that I want to set up the call with Dr. Harley I could predict his response down to every word.

"You have to let this go! You can't keep bringing this up! It was 4 months ago and you won't let it go! You are killing us! This conversation is killing us! You are making me hate you because you can't forgive me!"

That is exactly what he will say. Then I will cry and walk away or I'll flip out and make matters worse.

He doesn't understand how much I hurt or how this has impacted the way I feel about him. I feel like he just thinks I'm over reacting.

If he has already agreed to speak to Harley you should set it up ASAP.

He is trying to blame you for not forgiving him. This is ridiculous, and it is probably this attitude he has with you that causes you to have such low self-esteem and confidence. Tell him the reason you cant forgive him is because of the lack of effort he has made for the recovery of your marriage.

But, as mortarman said, you have a role in this too.

As for the crying and flipping out: just dont do it. We all have free will, and are adults who choose how we behave. He may begin to take you more seriously and have more respect for you if you talk in a calm but firm manner. If he knows he can get his way by putting you down and saying hurtful things, he will do it. You need to reinvent yourself as a woman who doesnt take any crap, who respects herself, who is strong enough to do the best thing for her children.

In years to come, do you want your children to be proud of having a strong mother who believes in the sanctity of her wedding vows and demands respect? Or do you want them to grow up thinking its ok for a married man to have an affair and behave like a selfish $h!t?