Amy, here's what you wrote again. This is pure babble from your H.

1. "WH told me that even HE didn't know he had not loved me, until this "catalyst" - what we all here call the A - happened, and shown a light of truth and honesty on the reasons he was with me."

Orchid: He didn't? The why the response on item 2?

2.WH was only with me out of fear, that he was afraid if he didn't marry me, he would never get another shot at marriage. So, he convinced himself and me and everyone else in our lives that he loved me. And now he knows he never did

Orchid: You some kind of mommy monster? Is he that bad a catch? Convinced himself of what??? You'd better ask for all your $$ back. I heard the same babble. If he knows this, he also knows WHEN he lied to you.

3. he doesn't regret the past 15 years, because he had fun during that time. But, now that he has "woken up," he cannot go back to "sleep," meaning the way it was, because now he knows better. Even though it would make everyone happy, he is finally having the courage to stand up for himself

Orchid: Fun while living in fear? Sleep in a M? What kind of babble is that? Sleep walking through life? I think you are in more danger than he is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Stand up for himself while his pants are falling around his feet?

Really my dear, he is babbling right along the WS script. Ask him if he really believes what he is saying. Tell him that as much as you want to believe him, his choice of words right now are laughable and you need time away from him before that crazy virus affects your thinking process. YIKES!!!

Let him know if he 'faked' it that well for all these years, he needs another profession: Politics

Now decide whether you want to continue to be subjected to such stupid talking or you want to speak to your REAL H.

Hugz,
L.

Thank you, Orchid. After almost 9 weeks of hearing the same BS fog babble, I was actually tempted to believe some of it! Our friends are baffled. His mother is baffled. And I am still quite stunned, I'm afraid.

I have indicated to him that he is a different person, that he looks and smells different. And when he speaks fogese, he even gets this little creepy smile on his face. The people at Scouts have commented to me about it, as well as his flawed thinking.

But when I tell him that, he shakes his head and acts like I am living in a fantasy world of not wanting to believe what he is saying, because I don't want to hear it, rather than the fact that he IS different.

He tried to tell the Scout leaders his sad story, and one of the other leaders said that him and his wife had had some problems a couple years back (WH doesn't tell about the A [especially since the OW's son is in WH's patrol!], just how unhappy he's been with me, and how he just "woke up"), and did WH want to borrow some tapes that helped them. And of course WH backed away from that fast! He came up will all kinds of excuses as to why he didn't want or need help.

Pathetic. I guess what confuses me most, Orchid, is that WH is no longer with OW. She dumped him. I think she still communicates with him when he calls or emails, but she asked him to not go to her house anymore (out of respect of me - respect she suddenly found when she realized I could expose her to the community). He only sees her at Scout functions, and she is dating an old BF. What gives?

Is he still so foggy because the A was forced to stop? WH confessed to his mom and then me on New Year's Eve. He told his mom that morning, and told me in the ER (WH was there for accute depression). Then he stayed in a halfway house for 5 days, then moved in with his parents. Now he has his own apartment. He wrote one very feeble reconciliation letter on 1/12, but by that night was all fogged in again. Since then, nothing but anger and silence from him.

A lot of the other WS I read about here seem to come around for EN once the OP is no longer doing that. Mine seems to rather get no EN met than to come to me. ???????? I am confused.

In your years here, I know you have read a lot of stories. Is this "normal?" Is there such a thing as a normal case? Have you heard of this happening before?

I guess I am looking for some hope, for a light at the end of my tunnel. I guess that is something I have to discover on my own. I am moving on with my life. I have the best friends EVER, and lots of them. They all support me 100%. I'm going to the gym, church, working, being with my boys, staying busy.

I feel I'm doing all the right things, but getting nowhere with WH. Just more time? Keep doing what I'm doing? He won't file for D (which some days I'm grateful and other days it makes me mad), but he doesn't want to be married to me anymore. I feel like he is fence-sitting.

Sorry to be so needy here with you. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Amy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree:.....Pathetic. I guess what confuses me most, Orchid, is that WH is no longer with OW. She dumped him. I think she still communicates with him when he calls or emails, but she asked him to not go to her house anymore (out of respect of me - respect she suddenly found when she realized I could expose her to the community). He only sees her at Scout functions, and she is dating an old BF. What gives?.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: When an OP dumps a WS, the WS still tries to keep the fantasy alive. After all NO-ONE wants t/b dumped. Take a look at sonicwomen's post. OW's family intervened and had an RO type of filing done against the WS. OW is in her 70's with some 'memory' issues. Read what her WS just did in front of sonic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: Is he still so foggy because the A was forced to stop? WH confessed to his mom and then me on New Year's Eve. He told his mom that morning, and told me in the ER (WH was there for accute depression). Then he stayed in a halfway house for 5 days, then moved in with his parents. Now he has his own apartment. He wrote one very feeble reconciliation letter on 1/12, but by that night was all fogged in again. Since then, nothing but anger and silence from him..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Yes. The EN part of the A is still raging. At least in his mind. Until he gets over that part, his left over emotions including his anger will continue. You need to learn how to stay out of his way when that happens. Keeping yourself busy. Working on your own personal improvements is helpful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: A lot of the other WS I read about here seem to come around for EN once the OP is no longer doing that. Mine seems to rather get no EN met than to come to me. ???????? I am confused..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: That is because when the WS puts a stop to the A, then some healing begins but it is not permanent until all phases of recovery are gone through. Many false recoveries happen during these times. Remember your WS is not your H yet...... he maybe physically there but emotionally he is somewhere else. His tormented feelings may play out like a bad soap opera within him and he may give some real performances - not just to you but others to convince them to join him in his pity party. Except for your children, don't worry about the reaction of others. In fact it is better if he does act up in front of others.....it will embarress him but he won't know it and it may strengthen your support. As for your chldren, love them and band together with them ....... attack this problem as a family.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: In your years here, I know you have read a lot of stories. Is this "normal?" Is there such a thing as a normal case? Have you heard of this happening before? .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: In a foggy sense....quite normal. Heard it many times. In our case both the OW and WS tried to break it off. Of course the OW used that as one of her many threat tactics. It quickly got boring. That is why I went to plan B. False recoveries were quite painful. It had setbacks. My heart and mind eventually got in sync and then I could begin real healing....on my part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: I guess I am looking for some hope, for a light at the end of my tunnel. I guess that is something I have to discover on my own. I am moving on with my life. I have the best friends EVER, and lots of them. They all support me 100%. I'm going to the gym, church, working, being with my boys, staying busy. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: It is good you have support. Is there hope? Yes, there is. You always have the option to have good personal recovery. Marital recovery will take the effort of both. Your level of sucess will depend on your personal recovery first. Your priorities will change as your personal recovery improves. I can't emphasize that enough. Personal recovery is escential to the marital recovery on both the BS and Ws. After all, don't you want to shed that BS title?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: I feel I'm doing all the right things, but getting nowhere with WH. Just more time? Keep doing what I'm doing? He won't file for D (which some days I'm grateful and other days it makes me mad), but he doesn't want to be married to me anymore. I feel like he is fence-sitting..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Keep working on your personal recovery. Plan A if you can, work on a Plan B backup and implement when you need. It is vital you know WHEN to go to plan B vs being forced to do so, You statement shows you are still riding that rollercoaster. Want off? Read some of the books like: SAA, HNHN and if you need try Dr, James Dobson's book: Love must be Tough.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong>Amy Maree: Sorry to be so needy here with you. I appreciate your time. ....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: No need to apologize. Remember we were all helped and many of us in your situation a while back. I am just giving back some of the help that was given to me when I came. Your appreication is appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope this helped.

L.

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Amy -

Listen to Orchid. She is an expert. She really helped me in learning to babble right back to my H and also telling him I want my H back, not the WH.

Orchid....we need to ressurect your "babble-back thread. It's one of my favorites of all time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

star*fish, U crack me up! I didn't keep a copy of that thread. But I am sure there are several of BS' there that babble just as well. LOL!!!

Thanks for the compliment.... I think!?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thank you all. I appreciate the time and effort. I do need to learn to babble back.

Because his lights are on, but NOBODY is home!

And I am going to ask to talk to my H next time.

Amy

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> 'atta girl, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Amy Maree,

If your H and the OW aren't together anymore, that would seem like movement in the right direction to me, though the recovery process will no doubt be very long and at times really difficult.

Like you guys all tell me, "keep your chin up".

It's almost spring, time of new beginnings.

LL

Thank you, LL. It doesn't seem possible right now that anything could ever work out. Because right now he is convinced he never loved me and doesn't want to be married to me.

I am very far from recovery. But I think that is where we all are. WH and OW are still together in WH's head, I think. Unfortunately, he just cannot give up his fantasy right now.

Oh well. I am tired of trying to figure him out. I am just going to work on me and keep reading my books, and hope he comes out of his fogginess before he does something stupid and loses the best thing that ever happened to him in his life - ME! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope you are doing good in NC today. You will get the hang of it. You will go through withdrawals from him, too. And the way I look at it is that if you eventually expect him to suffer withdrawal from his OW to save your M, then you need to be brave and suffer through your withdrawal from WH to save your M. Does that make sense? That's how I've gotten myself through.

I am not in Plan B, but by WH request, we only communicate through email, and only about business and kids. That has been very hard for me. But, each day it gets easier. Too bad for my WH. He might wake up one day and realize I'm not there waiting anymore.

After almost 9 weeks, my patience for some sign from him is waning. I don't know what that means, but if I didn't have my boys, I do believe my WH would have been served D papers by now.

Chat at you later, LL.

Amy

Amy Maree

You aren't alone in feeling that way. If I didn't have my kids I wouldn't be holding out to see if WH comes out of his fog either. You are right your WH will realize one day what he has lost and so will mine I hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amy Maree:
<strong> I guess what it comes down to is that I miss my H. I miss the man that used to think of me first, used to love me, hold me, make me feel safe.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amy, I know exactly what you mean. I see my WW and she looks like the person I married. But, the woman I married would not have cheated on me, violated a sacred covenant with God, and broken the 6th commandment. She has become another person. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: JustinExplorer ]</small>

This ride does suck! I feel the same exact way. He looks like the same man I married (except like crap these days because he is so happy), but when he opens his mouth and looks at me it is like he is looking in a mirror instead of at me and the world. That is what I think of you can't see the world through a mirror (Avril Lavigne).