Lisa,

Have the doc's sat your H down and explained to him what diabetes can do to him? I mean the gruesome stuff such as the amputations due to gangrene. It is far worse than not functioning sexually, it is losing limbs and then his life.

We all die, but with diabetes you can die a piece at a time and that is NO bargin.

There is such fall out with that disease, that he should really really address it NOW. I rode on a plane from coast to coast with a young man that had diabetes and was very active in fund raising for medical research. It was eye opening to say the least.

But the good thing is that diet, better medication, and much better sampling equipment means that most if not all can lead a very normal life.

If you can possibly drop kick your H into the Doc and have him address this, please do it.

God Bless,

JL

JL...yes the doctors have gotten on his case big time about it. I hope that you realize that you don't think that my only concern is the sexual part. I reread my post and thought of how that may have sounded....The sexual part is the least of my worries!!! I want him to be here here to grow old with and to see our kids married, grandchildren, etc etc. He seems to be making more of an effort now than before. He is going to the gym and watching what he eats. Right now he is still on pills but I think that he really should be on insulin...His doctor is not one to treat things very aggressively.

Lisa,

No I didn't think that. I realized your answer and comments were within the context of the subject at hand. I just hope your H wises up a bit.

But, let me ask you something and offer a comment that might make you think about things differently.

You stated he found out about the diabetes about 2 years ago. You also started the A about that time.

Do I recall these facts correctly??

Now this gets complicated, but do you think his reluctance to really address his health issues, sexual and otherwise, is related to the A? I wonder if he is still down about the A, and is depressed and is being a martyr about this?

He may not consciously realize he is doing this, but it may be that his "enthusiasm" for life is just NOT there, so the desire to really address his illness is NOT there.

I am not trying to put another burden on you, or more guilt. What I am suggesting is that he may need to be more pumped up by you. He may to need to hear the statement you made about him more often, OR he may need for you to take action in some form, to demonstrate your devotion.

I am not sure of any of this, but it might be worth considering. I say this because what women don't seem to understand about men, is that we have the same feelings even of suicide, but we successfully do it 10 times more often. Men don't value themselves the same way that women value themselves. We are raised and trained to be expendable (women and children first you know).

So there MAY be an element of this in his feelings (thinking???) whatever. Something to consider, ask someone about, and focus on when watching him. This may be driven by his thinking that while you say you love him, your don't really NEED him.

Men often have a strong need to be NEEDED. Everyone knows mothers are needed, but fathers??? It is NOT so clear. This carries over to males and females even if there are no children.

So think about it. I may be completely wrong, but keep your eyes open.

God Bless,

JL

JL...actually he was diagonised about 5 years ago..When I look back on how things were before the A...I can remember his moodiness and almost at times hatefulness with me and the kids. He had never been like that before. It was as if I was married to a stranger at times. I can kind of understand why I was so vulnerable at the time when the OM did start pursuing me with the joking and flattery, etc etc...I totally wanted the escape from what our homelife was at the time.

Strangely enough, JL, I think that my A was kind of a wake call for H...He is actually trying to do something now to improve his health for all of us. I never once blamed him for causing me to have an A like I have read that some WS do with the BS. I don't blame him at all. He couldn't help what he was going through and I don't even think that he realized the personality changes that had occured.

JL...just for clarification. the impotency problem started about two years ago.

SG...I know that this is your thread and I hope that I'm giving way as my kids say "TMI"...too much information here!!!

hi ladies

To Mrs.X ,
I did things because i had all the emotional problems in the world . Horrible mother, bad childhood, wayward girlfriend,depression and what not.

This whole episode has made me a lot of good. It made me to find my problems and work on it.
I never had sex with her. Even though thats the only thing she wanted with me. I have been betrayed by every woman in my life starting from my mother, sister,gal friends,aunt.it still hurts.
My issues made me do things. I am fully recovered now.

But it is not my intention to make into an A. It was her intention. But i played it along. I became a typical OM. What is the point is, she got attracted with my good side and at last got the bad one. This is also because , once i got the notion that she is ready to do anything with and for me, i totally lost any respect i had for her. She became a slut in my view. But i still said and did things that makes me throw up now.

I did use her as she did me. But my good side won the race and i did not have sex with her and i am the one who broke it up. I am still proud of that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .
I do have great respect for those WWs who come here to mend their problems . The best one i ahve ever seen in this forum is Hopeful Person. Every WW come here has to read her posts fully.If everyone of you just listen to JL then half of your problems woiuld have a solution. Follow him ladies. If anyone have the notion that the OM will be thinking about u, forget it. They will be boasting about their sexcapades like trophies and not the same loving ways u think about them.

love
dhanush

Hey guys-

Good to hear that everyone is doing good. I am sorry that I haven't been around here for awhile but I've been CRAZY busy at work and it looks like it's going to continue for awhile so I will get on here when I can but it may be limited for awhile.

Please, everyone, don't feel like you're hijacking this thread at all, it is here for all the WS's/BS's alike. I think that we've formed a little "chat room" here and I think it's great!

Chris- I live in Minnesota (twin cities) and yes, I have been to a couple counselors before about the self esteem issue and neither of them helped me out much. They all assumed that my A was related to something my H did to me or how he treated me, etc but they wouldn't listen to me when I told them it was about me and my lack of self esteem. Anyways, I have been trying to come up with ideas for your wife and the surprise you have for her, I haven't come up with anything unique yet. I mean, you could always do the romantic dinner and then slip her an envelope with the tickets in it, but it'd be nice to do something a little more unique. Anyways, have you had any luck with it yet?

Well, take care all and I'll be back when I can. Things are still great with H and I.

SG

Hi everyone.
SG, did you read this little paragraph to you from dhanish. (He had some for me also.)
"SG you are the poorest of all . U remind me of the film UNFAITHFUL. ur BH will wake up some time and leave u. This is gonna happen if you dont put your fog feelings out faster."

I think it would be best for this MB for me to step back for awhile from posting
because I am NOT following the wonderful advice from friends here that know what
is best for my marriage. And I truly believe the advice given to me is the advice I SHOULD be following.

I have made a decision to make no decision concerning ending all contact with OM.
This 'habit' runs deep! It took a long time to get to where I am and it will take a long time to get back....
I am not going to tell OM to never call and then be the one calling him in a few weeks!

As I read the messages, everyday there are new heartaches and struggles and I feel mine are minor in comparison.

As Abraham Lincoln said, “Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be.”
And JL, I like the way you call me Sarah, small and pretty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are truly a wise and caring, GOOD GOOD man! I don't know how you do it, to continue day in and day out when there are people like me that struggle with your good advice....and you can so clearly see the way out of the FOG.
You truly are a light at the end of the tunnel, if we would just follow that light!

Thanks also to Lisa, SG, Jenny, JL. 2long, Mrsx, Chris and all who have tried to counsel me!
You have spent so much of your time giving me wise words of wisdom and I promise I will think and think about what I have learned here over the weeks to come.

And like Dhanush said, my words are not helping other WW. (Or BS)
Dhanush, not all OM have the same deceitful heart and intentions that you describe, anymore than all WW have the same intention of USING the OM for their selfish romantic excitement.

And yes, Dhanush, husbands and wives often take one another for granted especially after being married over 30 years and many become more companions than lovers; the compassionate kisses are just a memory. (Even without any affairs by either.)

And it can be revived, it both are willing!
Since my husband doesn't know about my foggy pining for OM, he is a happy man!
And yes if he knew my inner thoughts or that the OM and I occassionaly talk, he would be very unhappy!

However, when I decide to follow the MB principals and go NO CONTACT with the OM, and become 100% faithful to my husband, then I will be back posting and begging for your help and support.
And best of all, I know I will receive it.

Thanks from my heart. Sarah

I read this on a different thread from Orchid:
Right here on MB you gently pulled me out of the mire of despair, washed off all the sludge of depression and took me on a beautiful beach walk and picnic.

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Sarah,

I hope you don't take too long to make this decision. I have the awful feeling that you have less time than you think. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since my husband doesn't know about my foggy pining for OM, he is a happy man!
And yes if he knew my inner thoughts or that the OM and I occassionaly talk, he would be very unhappy! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H is not a very happy man, because he knows your love for him is NOT what it was years ago. He knows your focus is elsewhere. He accepts it because he doesn't know what to do, but I would bet the pain and the loss are there. Men often don't talk about feelings, but we have them and we have pretty good sensors as well.

I hate to see yet another year added to the length of this affair. I know it sounds romantic to you, but your H has lost so much. He lost his son. And he lost his W and believe me he feels the loss of both. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You once said you never addressed the loss of your son, and that you put on a happy face so that no one would know what your were feeling. Have you ever explored why you did/do that? Have you figured out why you ran from your son's death as you are running from your marriage? I think the two are connnected and I strongly urge you to address the loss of your son with a counselor even if you won't face your A and what you have taken away from your H.

Trust me on this one thing. He would be a different man today, if you have given him the love you gave OM. There will come a time when no matter how much love you want to give him, it will not help.

Please think about these things.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I noted that you left an email address is that because you want comments off line? Or want help off line?

Hi JL.
I opened a new e-mail address but I couldn't get the password to work, so I went back and deleted it from my post.

What you don't realize is my husband IS happy.
We get along really well.
He gets home from work at 4:30, we spend the evenings together like other married couples.
I fix a good supper, we take walks, talk, watch tv together and make love,usually Sunday before church! We visit our kids and grandkids on the week-ends.

I DO LOVE MY HUSBAND.
It is weird, I know, to love two men!!!!

Everyone that knows me would describe me as a jolly person, including my husband, children and grandchildren...I make snowmen, I play and laugh!
I have learned to smile and be happy; even if there is a sadness inside my soul.

I think it is called being able to compartmentalize.

If a stranger looks my way, I smile at them.
I have a happy spirit most of the time.
It is here at MB that I let out any inner turmoil!

I give my husband lots of love and caring and kindness and it is sincere.
I know he thinks my heart is 100 % his, by the way he whistles every now and then.
A worried person cannot whistle!

The affair with OM is OVER, the friendship is lingering but in time that too will have to be over....that is the difficult part right now.

Remember once I told you, if I could keep from losing the OM to the other woman, I would have sex with him everyday?

What a terrible thing for me to say, I can't believe I even thought such a thing.
(FOG TALK FOR SURE!) Because now, I accept that the physical part of our affair is absolutely over FOREVER!

Sincerely, Sarah

Sarah,

If your relationship with your H is so good and so fullfilling, then what is he missing? What does he not know about you that he needs to know to meet your needs so that OM is NOT necessary in your life?

You are hanging on to another woman's man, for some reason. Something is being rewarded within you by doing this, yet you admit to inner turmoil.

Your H needs to see this turmoil. You need to allow him to help you deal with it. Sarah, one of the hardest gifts to give is the one of receiving help. It sounds as if your H is a good man. You make it sound as if your A, or the part you have admitted to has passed from his mind and heart. You make him sound dumb.

Perhaps he is as good an actor as your are, but your are robbing him of a chance/an OPPORTUNITY to help you and remove the turmoil. You may not understand this, but it is important. Your H needs to be needed by you, and frankly you do need him to help you.

I do recall your statement about OM and sleeping with him. But you must acknowledge that your contacting him is harming his GF and their relationship. What if she finds out (even if you feel us guys are dumb about relationships I can assure you she will not be), and she leaves him. It may make part of you happy, but he is then alone because of you messing with their relationship.

It is time you went HOME Sarah (small and pretty) truely it is time for you to go home where you belong. You have run long enough. You cannot help OM now, but you can hurt him. He needs to develop a deep and loving relationship with his GF. He will need her help in the future as she may need his. You are standing between them and hindering their relationship. And he is standing between you and your H, and hindering your marriage, no matter what you say.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Oh dear, Sarie:

"Dhanush, not all OM have the same deceitful heart and intentions that you describe, anymore than all WW have the same intention of USING the OM for their selfish romantic excitement."

Oh *YES* *THEY* *DO*!!! Whether they realize it or not. Whether YOU realize it or not. Whether the BS realizes it or not. I'm one of the latter. I believed my W when she TOLD me variously that "she and RM used each other", they "never said ILY 2 each other", they "DID love each other", "he respects you more than you realize" (that one really made me sick). It's been all over the map for the whole time since D-day. The difference between "conditional love" and "unconditional love" comes 2 mind here, and is relevevant in that it describes the BEST of conceivable possibilities related 2 affairees that one could possibly imagine. At best, the R between the affairees would fit the "worst" definition of conditional love. In reality, the R between them isn't even real, it's an avoidance of responsibility al2gether (and very harmful 2 the primary relationship):

"Conditional love is like a kind of bargain with the Universe to give you self-love if you "take care of" people. Tends to make others responsible for your needs and happiness. Includes the "Care-taker ", "Good Prostitute", "Reluctant Martyr", "Rescuer ", stances in life. Wants, and to a degree does get, rewards and approval from others. There are secondary gains in this position, though the price paid is being less than one's True Self.

Possessive, holds on when the other grows or heals...and then needs another needy partner. Expectations++. "I will love you (=take care of you) if you are good, clever, white, black, richer, poorer, sicker or more well than me, male, female...etc..." "I love you and if you love me you must promise me...." etc. Can easily feel victimized/angry again when the conditions are not met. Can make the one loved in this way feel very resentful ("hostile dependency"). Dependent on the approval of others."

-excerpted from Dr Guy Pettit, on http://www.iloveulove.com/unconditlove/love.htm


"And yes, Dhanush, husbands and wives often take one another for granted especially after being married over 30 years and many become more companions than lovers; the compassionate kisses are just a memory. (Even without any affairs by either.)"

Definitely. Long-term Ms need "maintenance." What they DON'T need is an A, particularly a long-term one like you had or my W had. I still sometimes wonder whether such an A truly IS survivable. I feel this more with time, as I find myself less "dependent" on my W's love for my own spiri2al and intellec2al survival. Rest assured, YOUR H will come 2 this stage 2. And he will do this whether you end contact NOW or later. Think about it. If it's later, then he's got the additional betrayal 2 cope with at the same time his personal recovery is progressing. What do you think he'll want then? Take my sitch. My W has probably ended contact. But just the other day she said that "either one of us might just quit and abandon the other." Why would she say that? I think I know now (through realizations I've made of my own pertaining 2 my thinking and behavior/interactions with others) and I don't think it has much, if anything, 2 do with continued contact. But it might. And if it does, I would be ready 2 let go of my M. Not "quit." Let go. There's a big difference, but you might not recognize it if your H gets 2 that point and decides 2 DV you.

"And it can be revived, it both are willing! "

Again, sooner rather than later. You will likely do enough additional damage by continuing your A that the likelihood you CAN revive your M will be much reduced.

"Since my husband doesn't know about my foggy pining for OM, he is a happy man!"

JL's right. He is NOT happy. He's working 2 be happy so that you'll be happy with him. This is a useful strategy, but it only works 2 a point. At the point I'm at now, I do it because I believe in my W and the things she's capable of. One of those is being a faithful W, even though she hasn't been one for a long time. If she can't be faithful, though, I certainly don't want 2 keep our M 2gether. I want her 2 be happy, and if she can't be happy in a committed R, I will accept that and let her go - she will have 2 let me go in the process.

"And yes if he knew my inner thoughts or that the OM and I occassionaly talk, he would be very unhappy!"

No kidding. Though you've appeared 2 realize this, I doubt you have an inkling as 2 the depth of his unhappiness (or you would stop contact immediately and TELL your H about it).

"However, when I decide to follow the MB principals and go NO CONTACT with the OM, and become 100% faithful to my husband, then I will be back posting and begging for your help and support."

We'll be here.

"And best of all, I know I will receive it."

This is true. Look. I could even imagine myself being delighted 2 hear that RM were seeking help from forums like this one, or better yet, counseling. I won't help him myself, because he's 2 close 2 "our problems". I think that shows I don't "hate" RM. I certainly don't have 2 like him or respect him, though.

We may get on your "case" when you keep talking about the psuedowonderfulness of your OM. But we do that because we care about you and your H.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dhanush:
<strong> hi ladies

To Mrs.X ,
...(snipped, but not disregarded)...

But it is not my intention to make into an A. It was her intention. But i played it along. I became a typical OM. What is the point is, she got attracted with my good side and at last got the bad one. This is also because , once i got the notion that she is ready to do anything with and for me, i totally lost any respect i had for her. She became a slut in my view.

...(snipped but not disregarded)...

love
dhanush </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dhanush,

this i can totally relate to and i wholeheartedly agree. absolutely. i am sure that is how OM thought of me, and now that i am seeing him for who and what he really is, i am starting to think the same of him. it's funny how the fantasy can totally expel the negative characteristics of a person when you are so smitten with them. OM is a jerk. he is egotistical, he is arrogant, judgemental and has ZERO respect for women. as i look back on our conversations, i see the control he had over me and how manipulative he was. (his POOR W, she has to LIVE with that)

i know he used me and manipulated me and most likely thinks i'm a slut and i understand that, how COULD he respect a woman who would cheat on her H? even if he thinks he respected me, it's impossible. and i have ZERO respect for him. he is definitely a womanizer and i remember him actually saying that every serious relationship he has ever been in, he has driven the woman away because he was too controlling and manipulative. yes, he actually told me that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i was the giver in the A, i gave him gifts constantly, i took him to the World Series (he'd never been and the Yanks are his team), i came at his beck and call at all hours of day and night when he needed something: me to drop stuff off to him at home, giving him rides all over the place, lunchtime quickies at his house, you name it. i guess the more i gave, the less respect he had for me, and the funny thing is, i NEVER ONCE asked him for anything. i was more than willing to sacrifice knowing full well he was most likely not going to reciprocate. what a friggin' fool i was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mrsx:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dhanush:
<strong> hi ladies

To Mrs.X ,
...(snipped, but not disregarded)...

I became a typical OM. What is the point is, she got attracted with my good side and at last got the bad one. This is also because , once i got the notion that she is ready to do anything with and for me, i totally lost any respect i had for her. She became a slut in my view.

...(snipped but not disregarded)...

love
dhanush </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dhanush,

this i can totally relate to and i wholeheartedly agree. absolutely. i am sure that is how OM thought of me, and now that i am seeing him for who and what he really is, i am starting to think the same of him. it's funny how the fantasy can totally expel the negative characteristics of a person when you are so smitten with them. OM is a jerk. he is egotistical, he is arrogant, judgemental and has ZERO respect for women. as i look back on our conversations, i see the control he had over me and how manipulative he was. (his POOR W, she has to LIVE with that)

i know he used me and manipulated me and most likely thinks i'm a slut and i understand that, how COULD he respect a woman who would cheat on her H? even if he thinks he respected me, it's impossible. and i have ZERO respect for him. he is definitely a womanizer and i remember him actually saying that every serious relationship he has ever been in, he has driven the woman away because he was too controlling and manipulative. yes, he actually told me that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i was the giver in the A, i gave him gifts constantly, i took him to the World Series (he'd never been and the Yanks are his team), i came at his beck and call at all hours of day and night when he needed something: me to drop stuff off to him at home, giving him rides all over the place, lunchtime quickies at his house, you name it. i guess the more i gave, the less respect he had for me, and the funny thing is, i NEVER ONCE asked him for anything. i was more than willing to sacrifice knowing full well he was most likely not going to reciprocate. what a friggin' fool i was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since my husband doesn't know about my foggy pining for OM, he is a happy man!
And yes if he knew my inner thoughts or that the OM and I occassionaly talk, he would be very unhappy! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H is not a very happy man, because he knows your love for him is NOT what it was years ago. He knows your focus is elsewhere. He accepts it because he doesn't know what to do, but I would bet the pain and the loss are there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sarah, Sarah, Sarah!

You just don't get it!

Like I have told you several times, your husband's situation is very similar to mine up until about 6 months ago. My wife thought I was happy also, but I knew our marriage was not going well. It was not nearly as good as it could have been. Your husband knows that, he feels it.

You are fooling yourself if you think you are fooling him.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Chris that is wonderful. Things are also very, very good between H and me.

I had a thought about your W's birthday. You might not feel that this is appropriate at this stage or whatever but how about reconfirming your vows or making new vows.

It is our 30th wedding anniversary in August and we are thinking of doing this. I say "reconfirming" because when I said "renewing" to my H he said he has nothing to "renew" he never broke any of his. We both find the word "reconfirming" much more about where we are at.

Jenny

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>