Just keep reminding yourself that your life has changed forever ALREADY with the appearance of OW. You didn't do that -- he did. You are just accepting the inevitable consequences and moving on.

If it's a "very, very real possibility" that your life with H is over -- well, you are going to get a head start on the rest of your life now. And there will be good things in it, too. Trust that.

You could have dragged it out as he inched his way towards OW, or you can make it clean.

I did it clean, and although the outcome isn't what I wanted -- well, OW in my life wasn't what I wanted, either. Our bed wasn't big enough for the three of us.

I'm really convinced that this is the best chance for reconciliation. It's the best chance for YOU to stay sane.

It's not that my WH has actually told ME he wants a D, but he did ask DD on Friday when he saw her how she would feel if we D, and that I was the one who pushed him out (semi-true). Not sure if he's considering it seriously, or just feeling out her reaction.

My fear of it being over is really more from my gut. He had an A 12 years ago, but it was different. It did go on for 18 months, 9 of which we were in separate residences, but we saw each other all the time, and he was never gone from the house for more than 2-3 nights in a row ever.

This time, he basically vanished, even before he "officially" got his apt, most nights of each week. This one just seems so much stronger, even though he's made comment after comment about how much he hates himself, and how he "knows" what he needs to do but he just can't get out of the web.

I, being a Christian, am dying inside as I watch him spiral to destruction. That's the worst part--this woman is awful for him. She's a sleazy 25-year-old, but she has everything to gain if she can hold onto him, and she's doing a great job working him to make him feel like a king.

This is why I am afraid it's over. I just don't see him ever letting go. I gave him the opportunity right before I gave the Plan B letter to him, one last time, to decide right then and there if he was ready to break things off with OW, and he said he didn't know what he wanted.

So, he has the letter. I just feel hopeless because of his alcoholism, and because she has some strange hold on him--I think he feels "needed" by her because her life is such a mess, and I'm self-sufficient. And he loves her. First it was "I love you more" but now it's "I don't know who I love more". Well, actions seem to be answering that one.

Now that we're apart, I'm just envisioning him saying "Wow, this is great. I really didn't need BS like I thought I did. I have it made. No house to maintain. No wayward DD to deal with. No responsibilities. I love this. I'm staying this way."

I'm NOT ready to deal with that. I can't imagine my life without my WH in it. He was my first love. And now he's leaving me for someone so low and trashy. I think a lot of my pain is for him, the person he's become.

One other question: About disclosing an affair. Basically everyone knows everything except perhaps OW's father. He has custody of her 8-yr-old D. I know where he lives now, and know his name.

Now that I'm in Plan B, am I done disclosing things, will this just push WH further from me, or is this something I should still do? I think, from what WH has told me, OW's F doesn't even know my WH is married.

Sorry, ML, too tired to stop at Walmart tonight. I have to leave work early tomorrow for an appt - I'll try then.

LL

LL,

Will you please quit scaring yourself to death with the worse case scenario??? sheesh!

I somehow don't think that OW will care much if anyone knows she is shacking up with a married man. Does she hit you as the type who has any shame? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As far as your H missing you, usually what happens in these deals is they suddenly see all the warts of the OP as the fantasy blows over. Your no contact helps the light of day shine in and ruin the fantasy pretty quick!

They realize that the OP can't possibly meet all thier needs and I suspect that he will see that pretty quick. See, she won't be able to take care of him like you did. At least you shined some semblance of sanity into his life, now he only has the murky, dark side of life. It might be fun to waller in the pig pen but he will start to feel dirty pretty quick.

Then he will start calling you and try to come back under "his" conditions. That will be the hard part for you, LL. Because you can't let him come back unless he meets your conditions. If you do, you will be dealing with this for a long time to come.

If you are strong and hold your guns, you can outlast him. And you really need to outlast this guy. You need to win here, his life depends on it. This is more than just an affair, this is a spiral into alcoholic hell. And you may very well have the power in your hands to induce him to stop that spiral into hell.

So you can't blow it, LL. You have one shot at this. I know it is painful for you. I know you miss him. But this is the right thing to do. For him and for your marriage, and for your kids.

That is why it is imperative that you do something to help yourself when you feel like this. Start working out. Call a friend, help your daughter with her homework. Take her shopping and out to dinner. She needs you. Play some spooky relaxing new age music! That always brings me down to earth. I know you can do it!

ML,

Will you please quit scaring yourself to death with the worse case scenario??? sheesh!

Okay, I can see you need to attend a "Getting to know the real Lordslady" class. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Worst case scenario is my middle name.

I came this close "-" to dialing his number on my cell phone to tell him to check his mail tomorrow (dumb). I wanted so much to hear his voice. Remember, this is the longest I've ever gone without talking to him since we first started going out 23 years ago. I knew I'd probably either regret initiating contact or that I'd get his voicemail and then I'd just KNOW he and OW were having fun.

Instead, I called my pastor. He was in bed, but I talked to his wife. She admitted, since she's not in my situation, its easier for her to say because she's not experiencing my pain, but she talked me down from wanting to call him.

Then he will start calling you and try to come back under "his" conditions

Promise? That's a start. It beats the heck out of my vision that he'll just walk away and never look back.

help your daughter with her homework.

The thing she likes about being in the alternative HS now--no homework. They only do one or two classes at a time, and work is all done in class unless they want to work ahead (she's not THAT inspired).

I know I HAVE to start exercising. You don't know the total lack of ambition I have to do this, although distant memories come back of walking a little during the summer and feeling really good afterward.

I will go look for that other workout tape tomorrow. Maybe I'll get it on VHS even though that's archaic, because we do have a VCR in my bedroom, and I can at least hide.

Just keep reassuring me and talking me out of calling. I am worse than any alcoholic when I get my mind stuck in a groove. (This is one of the things, btw, that I MUST break if I want my marriage to work if he comes back. It drives him nuts when I dwell on things--and I don't blame him.)

LL

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL

I to can see the worse path, the maybe's, the what if's. You really need to stop doing that to yourself. I have to a varying degree. It does get away from you at times but you can control it. Use it to see things in a better light. God does not intend for you to live a life of fear. Nor does he expect you to be a doormat. Your H has made all the choices, all the bad choices. He didn't need to turn to another, he could have chosen to work on the M. Instead he walked away from sanity. Didn't you say he couldn't stand her kids? What do you really think 24/7 with them is going to do.

Start working on the changes that you need to change in yourself. Let God worry about your WH.

Stay dark

God Bless

Didn't you say he couldn't stand her kids? What do you really think 24/7 with them is going to do.

The 8-yr-old is not a 24/7 deal, since OW's father has custody and she just sees her a couple times/wk. However the baby is hers 24/7 unless it's a weekend her father has her.

I don't know. My worst case brain says, "but what if he falls in love with the baby after all, if he spends all this time with her?"

I'm still dark...but am really edgy today.

LL

Okay, did a bad thing. I have been edgy and a nervous wreck all day. I think I'm more addicted to my WH than he is to alcohol or the OW. I need a 'fix' SO bad. So I left a message on his cell telling him to check his mail because it had kid info in it, to check the front page of the paper re: an article about our neighbor, and then just said "I just wondered how you were." (2x4's all--I'm dumb). He hasn't returned any call.

Because he's doing what I asked and not calling, I'm now having all sorts of thoughts that he's just turned his back on me.

Saw my IC tonight (the one I do like), but since I'm so down, not the greatest session, because I still think he thinks I'm traveling down a hopeless path because my H is selfish and immature.

And of course I want someone to tell me my odds of winning him back are greater than our odds of divorcing (because I'm feeling like they're about 1 in 50 of staying married right now). I'm making myself sick. I don't care to look toward the future right now if it doesn't include the H I loved and was married to.

This is far more painful than I even expected. I SO miss him right now. And I feel totally depressed because nothing I can do can turn back the clock to before this whole ugly thing happened and give me my family back.

LL

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL

Hi, I am just getting ready to start Plan B and I really know exactly what you are talking about to a T. I am afraid of all the same things you are afraid of. Sometimes I think just seeing him once a week is better than not seeing him at all. My WH is not a drinker, but he is a very depressed person and has been for years. He was very abusive to my daughter when we first met and I almost left him several times because of it. Not physically abusive, but like just mean to her, you could tell she wasn't his. After all I put up with from him over the years he turns on me and leaves. Now I am in total withdrawal from him and I am scared of Plan B also. I am afraid he will forget about me and she will meet all of his needs better than me. I am with you on this, and I am sure others are too. I am praying for you hard, please pray for me. The pain is unbearable at times. Hugs.

{{{{{{{{{{{hopelessinNY}}}}}}}}}}}

I can't turn back the clock now, I don't think, and switch plans. I have to stay with this one. But I am VERY scared and lonely right now. If you still have a lot of love left for your H and if he's not fighting other issues, you might still Plan A for a while, even if it is only one night per week you see him. That's about all I was seeing my WH before I did Plan B.
----------------------------------------------
Af for anyone else reading my posts, WH did return my call mid-evening. He is apparently very sick in bed with something--flu, I hope, and not heart problems. Says he's so weak he can't stand up and sort of queasy, but mostly just totally weak and unable to even get out of bed. Because he has a lot of heart issues in his family, I was afraid he could be having heart problems (they can make one queasy), especially since he's not sure he has a fever.

As you can tell, I was doing the "mother" thing with him. I do worry about his health. However, I didn't go over. I just told him to keep taking Advil and drinking lots of water and to call me or someone if he felt it was an emergency.

But beyond that, we did discuss kids. (My S found out today he needs glasses--so asked WH about helping with cost. He agreed to.)

However, the worst part: I did delve a bit into the relationship--not his and OW's but ours, and of course try as I may not to show emotion, my voice was cracking.

He stopped me at a point and said, "Honey, I'm sorry." But it was one of those statements that I took not to mean "I'm sorry, lets get back together", but "I'm sorry this had to happen, and for what it's done to you, but it's over between us."

I didn't say the "D" word but reiterated that I do love him and do pray for the survival of our marriage, but again that it's his choice. I don't remember his exact comment but it lead me to believe that now that I've been away, he IS finding out that he doesn't need me and that it is very likely that he IS going to walk away for good.

Guys, did I make a mistake? (Sorry, ML, Ark, all of you....have to ask) Should I have tried to build up a few LU"s before I did this? I feel like I may have cut him off just as he was starting to make a decision (he had backed off a bit from OW, but definitely not to the point he was willing to break contact).

It's 3am. I fell asleep early from exhaustion. Now I'm awake and can't sleep. And I'm sick--not physically, but emotionally. I can't just seem to hand this to God and say "whatever happens, happens". I want my H back, and everything in what I"m thinking and hearing right now says it's not going to happen.

Is this normal? Perhaps OW can fill all his needs. Maybe he really needed me for nothing but a crutch, and now he's figured out he doesn't need that either.

Help me! Help me! Freaking out that it's over.
(And hating myself because where is my faith?)

LL

Girl, you just put yourself back to Day 1 and now he doesn't believe you meant a word of your letter. No contact means no contact, LL!! You gave him a mommy fix last night.

You have to help him MISS that mommy fix in order to motivate himself to get better. Otherwise he has no motivation. He can't really waller down in the mud and get sick enough to want to get better if you keep throwing down water baths!! He will never want to get out of the pig pen as long as you make it comfortable for him down there. QUIT!!

LL

I feel so bad for you. I know how much pain you are in believe me I do. I feel it everyday also. I cry myself to sleep and the whole nine yards. I know Plan B will be hard for me, but my WH is not even thinking on giving up OW. They are an exclusive couple now so I have no choice. I hope you situation gets better, I am praying for you. Find yourself and your faith please as hard as it is. If he does decide to come back you will need to have yourself in order, not an emotional wreck. If he doesn't come back you will also need to be strong. Octobergirl has made me see that you have to live for you and no one else. I know easier said than done, but please try to look at things differently. Instead of what if he doesn't come back, think if he does. Or if he doesn't what you can do with your life because you will be stronger by then. I hope I have helped and I will be thinking about you throughout the day.

LL,

I was away for several days and haven't posted a whole lot recently. I just wanted to tell you what an incredible difference I am seeing in you now. I've not ever done Plan B and I read that for some it's a relief and for others a great hardship. For you it's clearly the latter. I'm sorry for your pain.

But look how far you've come! You're not an enabler right now. You're showing the hardest love of all - the "tough love" that will allow your H to grow up, assume responsibility for his own life, and become a stronger more complete person. If you had continued taking care of him, he'd remain weak and dependent and you'd never have received from him the love and respect you deserve.

I feel in your posts how hard it is. I thought you'd like to know that to an outsider, it's obvious how much better you really are doing.

Okay, I am now the worlds dumbest moron. I did call this morning to make sure WH was still alive (like I said--figured it was the flu but would never forgive myself if it was something with his heart that needed attention--OW has no vehicle, remember?)

First words out of his mouth were NOT nice when he answered--"What the **** do you want?"

That speaks volumes. I told him I just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything serioius, to ask if anyone had relayed the message about our neighbor, to remind him that if his check is smaller this week because of sick day he needs to let me know because it affects the % I deduct for my part....

And then, here goes....I asked him if he was closer to leaving her or me (club me, PLEEEZZZEEE!) I Plan B (unsuccessfully) AND I LB.

At any rate, he said he was hanging up now (no answer to question) and would call later. I said, no don't. We aren't getting along. This is why I don't want to call. (End of conversation).

Now I'm pretty certain that all hope is lost. She's meeting his needs. He's figured out he can be sick and survive without me.

And I just want to crawl in a hole and die, because he means the world to me and he's not coming back.

And I'm emotionally feeling like I'm almost back to when I first foundout the seriousness of the A, except back then I still had hope he'd come to his senses because OW is such a loser. Now I have visions of them getting married.

(Very difficult after I had dreams all night last night of us being together again and having worked though everything. We were traveling in one. Then I woke up and -- KABOOM!)

I want to just call in sick today and lay in bed all day with my dogs, but because I fell asleep early last night, I didn't do the work I brought home. You have NO idea how behind I am on my audit prep for my communities. I am seriously concerned about it jeopardizing my job, yet I absolutely can't function well enough today to give it the 150% I usually give.

I feel so alone again. No one to talk to. No WH. No questionable friend who was at least keeping me focused, if nothing else. No anyone.

Okay, black I am again. Just wish I had stats of some kind telling me that people who get this far down the hopeless road still have 50/50 or better odds of recovering their marriage. I'm guessing it's more like 1/100.

sick...sick... I am sick....

Pray for my faith. I'm letting my emotions control me today and I can't seem to get them to stop.

LL

LL

Please please don't do this to yourself. Get up and go take a breath of fresh air outside. Take some deep breaths. Find your inner strength, that is all that keeps me going and I have the same questions and feelings as you everyday of my life. You are a wonderful person, just remember that. God has a plan for you, maybe you have to suffer a little to be better and happier, but it will happen I am sure of it. Don't wallow in his pity party. Be true to yourself. You are a better person than he has made you think you are, I know it and everyone else on this board knows it. God is with you, I know it doesn't feel like it right now. He is with all of us. You have to just pray and put it in his hands. I hope you feel better later. You are not alone, we are here for you.

lordslady...

Take a deep breath...
clear your mind...

you are focusing just as much on your husband as before...

you are going to have to change your focus one minute at a time...

you need to get out your little egg timer...and start setting if for how many increments you need to at first..five, 10, fifteen minutes...and do what ever you need to do to NOT call him in that time period...and when that buzzer dings...set it again and again...

you need to stop your own thought processes which believe it or not you are in control of...

there is nothing you can do or NOT do that makes you responsible for his actions and choices...

it is ludacrious to think that a girl what eight more years older than his own son is going to meet the needs of an alcoholic...
that's crazy beyond belief....

This is your time to walk in the light and not be pulled in to his chaos...

It is ridiculous for you to contact him over an illness unless he is in the hospital...
I don't care if he as rickets, scurvey, a pox...or if the plague descends temporarily over his house....
that is none of concern...he should be worried and fearful of aides, herpes, clamydia, and genital worts though...
than the flu...

so start again here and now...and it should even be easier...because you now know exactly what he is capable of still dishing out ..proof is in the pudding of todays phonecall and you being target to his cruelity..
that should empower you greatly...

he is a grown man...

focus back on your job...and use your energy there...empower yourself to prove that you can face things you thought you could not...

gather strength from each hour that you refrain from calling him
gather strength from each time you begin to perseverate on him and switch your focus...

ARK

LL -

Do you have anti-anxiety medication? If not, did your doctor test you for anxiety?

Until I got mine, I could get caught up in these horrible loops you are in. Once I got mine, I could sit down and read a book, and educate myself about my feelings and WH's feelings and why we were doing what we were doing.

Please respond to my question. Being an accountant, and possibly Type A, you might have the "hamster running in the wheel getting nowhere" that I have experienced. It is aweful.

Why go through it if you don't have to? Now that my anxiety has calmed, I rarely take the medication. I think anxiety is something that builds upon itself. You need to cut it down a few notches!

Lots of love and support! Amy

Ark,

I don't care if he as rickets, scurvey, a pox...or if the plague descends temporarily over his house....

Okay, you win the prize. That statement actually produced a smile even as low as I'm feeling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Flu I'm actually not worried about (because when I get it, the rest of the household always disappeared and left me to fend for myself). He has had some heart symptoms in the past, though tests have been okay, so was just worried with the weakness and nausea (because he wasn't sure he had a fever) that his heart might be bothering. His father had bypass surgery in his 50's and had it too late; he already has damage and now deals with congestive heart failure.

Since he's still alive this morning, I'll assume flu for sure.

gather strength from each hour that you refrain from calling him

Okay, Plan B - take #2. (I told you guys I was worried I'd blow the no contact thing.)

I do hope you're right about OW not being able to meet his needs. Please tell me I'm just jumping the gun, that he hasn't decided for sure to leave me, that it's still fog, and that I'm just expecting results too quickly.

AmyMaree,

Do you have anti-anxiety medication? If not, did your doctor test you for anxiety?

Yep, I've already been diagnosed a few years ago with generalized anxiety disorder that if left untreated, ends me up in depression. I have been off and on Celexa (though now on it for over a year straight now) to help the anxiety. Paxil would be more my Dr's choice, but it and I do NOT get along. I was never able to get past the side effects. Celexa worked until this crap all started, then he upped my dose and put me on Xanax as well. I can't stay on Xanax forever because it is physically habit forming (because it's a tranquilizer) and you get used to the dosage after a while. I've been on .5mg since Christmastime and I think it's not working very well now. However, I don't want to go up (nor do I think my Dr will let me) because it will be just that much harder to get off of it.

So, yes, my anxiety problems are a BIG part of why I'm having issues now. I tend to dwell on little things and make mountains out of molehills until I've made myself physically sick. (A fine profession of faith that is---which then is a vicious cycle, because it makes me anxious because I feel like I'm failing as a Christian.)

I do keep praying. I do keep telling myself that God won't give me more than I can handle, and that there is a reason He is allowing me to endure this. I just wish I knew what it was, because it's all feeling very hopeless right now.
------------------------------------------
I'm at work. I'm breathing. It's raining and cold out. I'm only working at about 80%. But I'm trying. Just hang with me please, guys. I know I'm a pain in the rear, but this board and God and my pastor and a couple others are all I have right now. Sounds like it should be enough, but I need a LOT of support right now.

Thanks for all you've given.

LL

Hi Lordslady.
I can certainly understand your concern for your husband's illness.
Stop kicking yourself for calling and checking on him, you would feel worse if he died and you hadn't called! True?

He was VERY rude to you....
Following is 6 GOOD Reasons for "No Contact" from http://www.liftedhearts.net
In place of the word 'ex' use the word WH.
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

1. Your ex is doing "no contact". You wouldn't be sweating those digits if they were calling you. When people love you, you love them. When people stay away from you, you should do the same. Hey, you don't want to be where you're not wanted, do you?

2. Begging and pleading doesn't work. If it did, you wouldn't be here. So try something different.

3. You're just asking for a panic attack. I don't know how many stories I've read on here of people who have given in and called or e-mailed and were completely slapped in the face or ignored by their ex. Then they're back at square one, feeling as bad as they did the day they got dumped. Or for those of you who get those ambiguous responses, you're given a tiny piece of string to hold onto while they continue to go out and have their fun - without you. It ain't worth it, honey.

4. What about you? Don't you deserve to be called and missed? Your ex wasn't the only one in the relationship, and you shouldn't be the only one calling. Guess what? He/she knows your number/e-mail address too. It's not fair to have one-sided communication. Invest that time and energy into yourself.

5. You won't be able to move on if you're still holding on to old ghosts. I say old ghosts because he/she isn't there anymore. They've moved on, some for better, a lot for worse. But the point is they've moved on. And you know what? If they really love you and they see that you're better than the rest out there, they'll be back. And if they don't, then you'll find someone who will think you're top dog. And you deserve that. Interesting stat - 90% of people in the US get married at least once. So it's against the odds that you'll be alone forever.

6. God loves you. He doesn't want to see you suffer. But God teaches those that he loves, so sometimes we have some hard lessons to learn. Take it in stride and gain everything that you can. He will be pleased and send you all that your heart needs and wants. Don't believe me? "Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart."

Psalm 37:4.

So let go of the phones and cancel the e-mails. Go read a good book. Pray, take a walk, write in a diary, post on here. But leave your ex alone. He/she will thank you for it, and you'll be thanking yourself later.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL AND GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

You're just asking for a panic attack. I don't know how many stories I've read on here of people who have given in and called or e-mailed and were completely slapped in the face or ignored by their ex. Then they're back at square one, feeling as bad as they did the day they got dumped. Or for those of you who get those ambiguous responses, you're given a tiny piece of string to hold onto while they continue to go out and have their fun - without you. It ain't worth it, honey.

This one probably hits home the most. I needed a "fix"--hadn't heard from him, and just flat out screwed up. Then when he called and was sick, I got worried and as MelodyLane said, did the 'mommy' thing (or at least offered). Then this morning, when I called to make sure he was still among the living, I get snapped at, and when I asked the DUMB question that shouldn't have been asked (like he's really going to tell me the truth??) about who has a better chance of him leaving them, me or OW, he ended the conversation without answering. Ouch! Pain!

For any Plan B'ers who might be reading my posts, how long did you have to go completely black before you heard from your WS? I'm just so afraid he'll forget me and not need me, and that all he's doing is drawing it out, hoping I'll file for D so he'll be off the hook.

I've had another day from Hades here at work. It is insanity. I'm going to leave by 8pm but will regret it because there is so much to do. My brain just can't handle it. I'm burning out, and when I get home at 8:30, I don't have any desire to even eat anything, let alone tidy a house or exercise.

I feel like I've taken care of everyone else for years. I just want so badly to have someone (1st choice would have been my H, but not WH) take care of ME for a while!!

LL

HopelessinNY,

I was just looking at your signature. I found out about my WH's PA on 11/6/03 and he moved to his own apt on 2/9/04. Pretty similar to yours except that he movee to an efficiency to be by himself (though I have little doubt that OW spends quite a bit of time staying there).

LL